Why So many foot faults?

[Bungalo Bill]

Most foot faulters know they are foot faulting, but they don't know the rules. They know you aren't supposed to go over the line, but many of them think you can touch the line.
-Robert

You have a good fair post.

Touching the line doesn't really bother me and I most likely would not be paying that close attention to it. However, if you go into the court once, I might let it slide. Do it again, and again, yeah, I will call it.

Most of the blantent violaters (players who go into the court) of this rule are simply refusing to adjust their serves to the rules. They know they get an extra step on you and they will do it because there is no real consequence except for other players complaining about it.

There is a high chance this person already knows he does it and has had plenty of confrontations and time to learn the rules. If it is a doubles player or a S&V, shouldnt this be even more important?

At the 3.0 level, I would cut some slack on them not knowing the rules, but 4.0 and above?????

 

[Kaptain Karl]

... you can't call it without a judge according to the code, right?

Incorrect. If it is blatant you can call it. (Easier in Dubs, but I've even called it in Singles. My opponent was stepping over the Center Tick and gaining an extra foot on his wide angle serve.)

Call a judge ?? ... Even in regular USTA league play during the season, there is NOBODY available to act as a judge.

It doesn't have to be someone from the local USTA office. Agree to having one of his teammates be the FF Judge (for both of you). That teammate has probably been steamed at his buddy over the FFs for years and would be way more honest than you'd expect.

... 6 years of USTA league play, and everytime this was brought up, it ended up badly with all guys getting pissed at each other. That is NOT the spirit of USTA amateur tennis.

And cheating IS??? (Foot faulting is cheating.)

All for an itsy bitsy teeny weeny foot fault!!

If FFs are so unimportant to you, why don't you just serve from the Service Line...? (Rhetorical question. You don't have to answer.)

I don't understand why the pros don't have some device that beeps if the server goes over the line.

I suspect that "device" would be very annoying. Since "going over the line" isn't a FF *IF* you've already made contact with the ball on your serve ... how would such a device work? (I've thought about it; I cannot imagine it.)

- KK

 

[TennisDawg]

Yeah, very few indeed go this far. The clear majority of them is simply a bunch of word exchanges. It seems you are making the exception more of the rule?

For me, it is nothing physical at all. Don't need to unless it is in defense. I would express my opinion and simply walk off the court. I don't play with cheaters. But I must say, I can probably count it on one hand how many times it got this far.

So we really are talking about the extreme of things.

Flipping somebody off is not a word exchange. It's an extreme thing to do. Some guys see that as provocative and it could very well escalate into something ugly. Better to error on the side of civility.

 

[TennisDawg]

If he would resort to physical violence over that, he should be locked up. Stupid people... Uhg.

I agree, but it's also stupid to flip somebody off, because they foot faulted in tennis.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Maybe we can get a pay per view of your 6'7 friend and Bill in a cage fight. That stuff is getting more popular than tennis, hahaha

Yeah, maybe I ought to lighten up.

So I will.

1. I have rarely been engaged in an extremely heated exchange with someone over this.

2. I have never had any physical confrontations over this.

3. I am gone (off the court) if the other player starts heating up too much, although there will most likely be an exchange of words and a bird flying around. In all cases, all players (including myself) calmed down and match play resumed with the foot-faulter more conscious of their violation.

4. I have listed my criteria on when I call a foot fault. I especially call it in doubles, on S & V's, and very quick players if they are clearly in the court and gaining an extra step on me. This is cheating - period.

5. I do not make any exceptions for players that "don't know the rules" at the 4.0 and above. Neither does a court of law in our country. If I steal, I go to jail irregardless whether I knew it was a crime.

6. At the 3.5 and below, it depends. Advanced level players either need to know the rules, or will learn the rules as they go if they don't want to spend the time learning off-court.

7. Heated exchanges don't bother me (perhaps they bother you) mainly because heated exchanges happen over other things as well. However, a footfault is a fault. It is gaining an unfair advantage over the returner no matter how you slice it.

 

[5263]

Sorry Kaptain Karl, the code is clear that you must get a judge and can only make the call after trying for a judge and only if "flagrant".

WBF, Flagrant is the word and it is never used in determining a ball out call. A clear difference. Ball out calls can be far away too.

 

[5263]

Quote--
7. Heated exchanges don't bother me (perhaps they bother you) mainly because heated exchanges happen over other things as well. However, a footfault is a fault. It is gaining an unfair advantage over the returner no matter how you slice it.


It's not all about me. I try to consider my partner, teamates and opposition, then try to balance things out. Many of them are very bothered by heated exchanges.

Getting worked up about foot faults is a lot of wasted energy.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Quote--
7. Heated exchanges don't bother me (perhaps they bother you) mainly because heated exchanges happen over other things as well. However, a footfault is a fault. It is gaining an unfair advantage over the returner no matter how you slice it.


It's not all about me. I try to consider my partner, teamates and opposition, then try to balance things out. Many of them are very bothered by heated exchanges.

Getting worked up about foot faults is a lot of wasted energy.

That is up to you. I try to consider my partner as well but not at the expense of blatent foot faults. If a player is clearly gaining an unfair advantage in positioning, I will not hesitate to call it.

I may call it just so my partner sees it to become aware of it. I might communicate to my partner about what we should do. On other occasions, I might simply call it and work it out from there. If it still happens and the other player refuses to stop cheating in on the ball, I could very well leave or ask for a person to call it if available.

But to sit there and do nothing? Yeah, that is you, not me.

 

[WBF]

5263: I am literate.

USTA Comment 18.6: When may the receiver or the receiver’s partner call foot faults? In a non-officiated match, the receiver or the receiver’s partner may call foot faults after all efforts (warning the server and attempting to locate an official) have failed and the foot faulting is so flagrant as to be clearly perceptible from the receiver’s side.

How could this be made any clearer? All it is saying is that the foot fault has to be obvious enough to be seen from the receiver's side. What does this mean? If you can see it, you can call it.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

5263: I am literate.



How could this be made any clearer? All it is saying is that the foot fault has to be obvious enough to be seen from the receiver's side. What does this mean? If you can see it, you can call it.

I don't know how much clearer it needs to be. It is pretty clear to me.

I even qualified when I would not back down if I made a call. It has to be flagrant with the opponent (server) clearly getting an extra step in positioning. If his toes touch the line, not a big deal, I have other things to worry about.

5263, has a unique way of looking a tennis.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Sorry Kaptain Karl, the code is clear that you must get a judge and can only make the call after trying for a judge ...

You just argued with yourself. (There are distinct differences between "must" and "trying for.") The Code says you should attempt to get a judge and if one isn't available, you may call them when they are blatant. (Also, The Code isn't "the rules" ... in case you forgot.)

... and only if "flagrant".

I'm pretty sure "blatant" and "flagrant" are synonyms in this context.

I'm beginning to suspect you are a foot-faulter. In my experience the only people who get as worked-up (your phrase) as you are those who want to be given a "pass" for their own rule violating (cheating).

- KK

 

[5263]

thanks Bill,

and WBF for you quote, where they use the word flagrant, which is not used for others calls. Pretty clear they were trying to make emphasis here.

In Your haste to argue a point you lose sight that I'm in agreement about the end result with both of you, just playing the devils advocate of what I've seen and experienced at the hands of USTA officials and league officials. I have had them speak to the clear difference inferred by the use of flagrant.

In the end, I think you both are correct,

but have tired of being right in a sport where so often many rules are not observed, even by the officials. Just like in other sports, I would council new players to learn to conform the locals customs mostly.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I'm beginning to suspect you are a foot-faulter.
- KK

LOL! Could very well be!

 

[Bungalo Bill]

thanks Bill,

and WBF for you quote, where they use the word flagrant, which is not used for others calls. Pretty clear they were trying to make emphasis here.

In Your haste to argue a point you lose sight that I'm in agreement about the end result with both of you, just playing the devils advocate of what I've seen and experienced at the hands of USTA officials and league officials. I have had them speak to the clear difference inferred by the use of flagrant.

Yes, I know you meant that it needed to be clear.

but have tired of being right in a sport where so often many rules are not observed, even by the officials. Just like in other sports, I would council new players to learn to conform the locals customs mostly.

Ahhh, I got out of the gates too quick on this one and had to backup to clarify WHEN I would call foot faults. The point being there are times players footfault all the time as their toes touch the line, however, it isn't material enough to give them a clear advantage.

Very few players and even fewer that I have played against step into the court - that is flagrant to me, especially if they are S&V's or doubles players. You just can't step into the court. That isn't fair at all especially if they are good servers!

Anyway, I think this conversation is over. We all seem to be in agreement as to when we all might pull the trigger.

 

[5263]

Karl,

not saying you are technically wrong, but
what is your point about the code not being the rules?

It still governs almost all matches without officials, right?

endorsed by USTA, right?

 

[5263]

Quote:
I'm beginning to suspect you are a foot-faulter. In my experience the only people who get as worked-up (your phrase) as you are those who want to be given a "pass" for their own rule violating (cheating).

Interesting and telling comment on your part. In my experience, the ones who tried to make foot fault calls on others when I'm a roving official, were nearly always guilty as well. It is funny to see your face when the call comes back your way, as most are sooo sure they don't do it til the official is standing there calling it. I didn't want to be so rude and bring it up, but since you brought up the subject.....

I've never had anyone call it on me or called it on another, other than to ask nicely if it was flagrant. Never given any more than a polite warning except when as an official.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Quote:
...Never given any more than a polite warning except when as an official.

You're just too kind.

 

[5263]

I do truly try. Honestly.

 

[troytennisbum]

Quote--

Getting worked up about foot faults is a lot of wasted energy.

I completely disagree with you.
It's cheating and should never be tolerated in competitive tennis.

Everyone should have the courage to call this violation when the situation warrants it.

 

[5263]

I agree with what you just said, but don't think you should get worked up over it.

 

[chess9]

Incorrect. If it is blatant you can call it. (Easier in Dubs, but I've even called it in Singles. My opponent was stepping over the Center Tick and gaining an extra foot on his wide angle serve.)



It doesn't have to be someone from the local USTA office. Agree to having one of his teammates be the FF Judge (for both of you). That teammate has probably been steamed at his buddy over the FFs for years and would be way more honest than you'd expect.

And cheating IS??? (Foot faulting is cheating.)



If FFs are so unimportant to you, why don't you just serve from the Service Line...? (Rhetorical question. You don't have to answer.)



I suspect that "device" would be very annoying. Since "going over the line" isn't a FF *IF* you've already made contact with the ball on your serve ... how would such a device work? (I've thought about it; I cannot imagine it.)

- KK

That's easy, you TOUCH the line with your foot. I guess the problem would be cycling the device because touching the line is fine most of the time.

See, all of this would have been easy if they hadn't changed the bloody rule from requiring one foot to be planted. Between that, the double hit rule, and all the resting between points, it's almost a workout playing singles these days. j/k

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Oh, and one of my other pissaronies is the rule that says players over 60 can only play one singles and one doubles a day! PUHLEEZE!! People complain about the nanny state but none of this stuff. If you can't play 3 singles matches a day you shouldn't be in a local tournament. It's war!!! It's a death match, and should be! Chain saws at 40 paces, I say.

-Robert

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Oh, and one of my other pissaronies is the rule that says players over 60 can only play one singles and one doubles a day! PUHLEEZE!! People complain about the nanny state but none of this stuff. If you can't play 3 singles matches a day you shouldn't be in a local tournament. It's war!!! It's a death match, and should be! Chain saws at 40 paces, I say.

-Robert

I like the attitude! :twisted:

 

[Kaptain Karl]

I love the attitude, but I'd surely want to know my opponent was already playing his (3rd / 4th) match of the day, too. (I believe my fitness is superior to many who are even 10 years younger ... so long as they are in the grind as long as me.)

Chainsaws??? Yeepers!

- KK

 

[Kaptain Karl]

... what is your point about the code not being the rules?

Just that. It's The Code, which is Whats-his-name's interpretation of the Rules to be used as a guide in unofficial matches.

It still governs almost all matches without officials, right?

I'm not aware of how prevalent The Code is in Europe, OZ, Asia or South America.

endorsed by USTA, right?

(Since we are splitting hairs ... "endoresed"? I don't know. Certainly recommended.) But there's a lot of tennis *outside* the USA.

- KK

 

[chess9]

The LTA has a Code of Conduct, but I don't believe it addresses the issue of calling foot faults without an official. I may mis-remember. I seem to recall that English gentlemen do not do that sort of thing, and my experience has been that they do not KNOWINGLY DO IT. (I.e., foot fault)

I assume all the countries have Codes of Conduct for tennis, because the Rules of Tennis, as promulgated by the ITF, barely scratch the surface of many regulatory issues, if at all.

-Robert

 

[5263]

Point well taken KK, didn't realize I was addressing someone outside the states. Even though I love the international aspect of the net, I do still often forget.