Why some posters don't like Nadal?

#54
The Lendl effect. He's a dominant champion but doesn't dominate the same way among the fans. The main fanwar is between Federer and Djokovic, the Vamøs Brigade gets caught in between. He doesn't have Federer's cool confidence or Djokovic's exuberance. He's more human.
 
#55
He's fine. As others have said, it's a fandom thing.
Anything negative I've ever said about him is purely due to me being a Fed fan and that would be true for most of his critics here.

Tennis is certainly better off with him around than with him not around in my view, his entertainment value is massive for me as a tennis fan. I'm over disliking him though, it's not worth the energy, any time I say things I'm just pulling the chain of a handful of VB folks who take themselves too seriously
 
#57
His general appearance and celebrations in his young days rubbed me the wrong way. Preferring both Djokovic and Federer over him had its impact too.

However, apart from me growing up, it's this forum's toxicity that made me like Nadal now. :D
 
#58
Most posters here are either Federer or Djokovic fans. They both play beautiful tennis, one with sublime unparalleled attacking ability and the other with sublime unparalleled defensive ability. The GOAT debate in recent years has solidified the major fanwar of tennis.
Nadal gives both fandoms a lot of grief as evidenced by his 18-9 combined record against them in the Grand Slams. His repetitive grinding tennis, while effective, can feel uninspiring and workmanlike compared to Federer's effortless attacking grace or Djokovic's swashbuckling athleticism and pinpoint accuracy. He doesn't even hit his forehand with proper technique, for God's sake. Neither fandom likes it when their man gets dominated by someone like that. Some posters mentioned Lendl, and I think that comparison is spot on. Against the more popular Becker and Edberg, his tennis was less inspiring but more effective, which made fans resent him then, and only come to appreciate his impact later. I do think that Nadal will get more love after all these guys are retired and the fandom loyalty dies out.
There is one huge difference between this forum's opinion of Nadal and the tennis community's opinion of him; TT likes to bash Nadal and disrespect him, which is definitely not common in any other tennis circle I've traveled in. It seems all slight annoyances with players are magnified and exaggerated on the internet for ironic/shock value. Federer fan didn't like how Nadal dominated him? On the internet, Nadal is an injury faking cheater loser who doesn't deserve a single title.
From my experience, Nadal may not be the most loved player because people gravitate toward Federer and Djokovic, but he universally respected. And in the end, that's what matters.
 
#60
He is the biggest Nadal fan, get with the narrative already, Hands!

He once invited me to his a secret basement in his picturesque French cottage farmhouse that was inspiration for the opening sequence for Inglourious Basterds.

But instead of Jews hiding inside, I instead found that the basement full of Rafa paraphernalia...
I'm not sure how you missed the family of pet capybaras that live on the grounds.

My answers, in no particular order:
Yours was a particularly grim post but I'm afraid I have to go along with most of it. I can see where you're coming from but there is a lot going on here with the fertility stuff, so linking it with doping is a bit speculative.

I realise mine is a minority opinion but I think Djokovic is probably the least likely to be doping. My speculative citation to support my Djokovic theory -- beyond my experiences with this as a footballer -- are his performances and his flexibility. In big matches he often sort of drifts off for a while because he just can't maintain his max level of performance and concentration. That's a big signal of humanity and natural rhythms to me. If he was doping, he'd be carrying himself differently - he'd be bulkier and less flexible IMHO. The flexibility he has attained only comes from seriously heavy work.

I don't really care too much about this area to argue minutiae because I can accept that doping is more or less required at the big-3 level, even for players as gifted as Roger.
 
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ADuck

Hall of Fame
#61
I think a lot of it is to do with this forum being seeked out by some of the most extreme fans. It's a bit different in the real world.
 
#62
I probably would've liked Nadal for awhile. He's weird, he's a lefty, odd game etc.
I like perfection too sometimes and Fed came along first and his form/mechanics
were just soooooo good.....and I play a 1HBH myself and have that sense of
superiority over 2 handers we all seem to have, correctly I might add.

So if there'd been no Fed I'd have liked Nadal for a time but it wouldn't have
lasted long. As he got older his face got all pointy and beady eyed. Frankly, he's
borderline butt ugly and I'm shallow and unashamed when it comes to looks.
 
#63
I probably would've liked Nadal for awhile. He's weird, he's a lefty, odd game etc.
I like perfection too sometimes and Fed came along first and his form/mechanics
were just soooooo good.....and I play a 1HBH myself and have that sense of
superiority over 2 handers we all seem to have, correctly I might add.

So if there'd been no Fed I'd have liked Nadal for a time but it wouldn't have
lasted long. As he got older his face got all pointy and beady eyed. Frankly, he's
borderline butt ugly and I'm shallow and unashamed when it comes to looks.
So you're a Zverev fan?
 
#65
I'm convinced all of his quirks began when he was quite young and have remained with him ever since. For instance, I cling to the theory that he once double faulted when serving on an important point because a wedgie was irritating him so that, ever since, he adjusts the back of his shorts before serving. :cool:
He always grabbed his shorts or pants, but check Wimbledon 2008. He didn't touch his face and ears with the right hand. So no, a lot of his tics have gotten much worse.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
#66
He always grabbed his shorts or pants, but check Wimbledon 2008. He didn't touch his face and ears with the right hand. So no, a lot of his tics have gotten much worse.
I'm willing to bet they started in a similar way though. At some point in his career, a bead of sweat probably trickled into his eye as he was about to serve so now he wipes his face automatically when about to serve.

Still working on what might have caused him to spend so much time aligning his bottles so precisely. :cool:
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
#67
Yours was a particularly grim post but I'm afraid I have to go along with most of it. I can see where you're coming from but there is a lot going on here with the fertility stuff, so linking it with doping is a bit speculative.

I realise mine is a minority opinion but I think Djokovic is probably the least likely to be doping. My speculative citation to support my Djokovic theory -- beyond my experiences with this as a footballer -- are his performances and his flexibility. In big matches he often sort of drifts off for a while because he just can't maintain his max level of performance and concentration. That's a big signal of humanity and natural rhythms to me. If he was doping, he'd be carrying himself differently - he'd be bulkier and less flexible IMHO. The flexibility he has attained only comes from seriously heavy work.

I don't really care too much about this area to argue minutiae because I can accept that doping is more or less required at the big-3 level, even for players as gifted as Roger.
Good points and agreed.

However, the idea that steroids/PEDs would make Novak bigger and less flexible is based on an old picture of what steroid use looks like.

Lance Armstrong was the most famous PED-er and he was not big at all. At this point, PEDs and blood doping can be tailored to the individual needs of any given sport.

Someone on this forum pointed out that Novak's huge dip in form came right as the Meldonium ban took effect.

He always grabbed his shorts or pants, but check Wimbledon 2008. He didn't touch his face and ears with the right hand. So no, a lot of his tics have gotten much worse.
Yup--and I think it's a tactic, like everything else.
 
#68
He's fine. As others have said, it's a fandom thing.
Anything negative I've ever said about him is purely due to me being a Fed fan and that would be true for most of his critics here.

Tennis is certainly better off with him around than with him not around in my view, his entertainment value is massive for me as a tennis fan. I'm over disliking him though, it's not worth the energy, any time I say things I'm just pulling the chain of a handful of VB folks who take themselves too seriously
Agreed, and it applies to the majority of non-objectionable players.
I mean, if you dislike Medvedev, Kyrgios, Tsitsipas, etc I can understand an argument that it's actually purely objective. But for most likes/dislikes, it's just a circular bit of preferring one, then doubling down on that.

It's not entirely random. For one, I know I have a consistent, objective but very personal preference for Fed over Nadal for one simple reason: I have never liked the kind of testosterone-ish, fist-pumping celebratory athletes. It's a purely aesthetic preference, but it's my preference and it cuts across all sports. Others may be the opposite, and feel the less emotional attitude of Federer seems smug and they like the emotion of Nadal. But once you make that call, and you root for one over the other, it snowballs.
 
#69
Because he isn't my favourite male tennis idol


My answers, in no particular order:
*Faking injuries

*Using MTOs to ice his opponents when he's losing *Abusing the pace of the game: taking too long on his own serve (he is the reason for the serve clock), refusing to play at the server's pace when receiving (e.g. Kyrgios Acapulco)*Obvious PED use*Absurd grunting, likely one more piece of gamesmanship

I had tried to respect him because of:

*His accomplishments
*His reflexive attempts to be humble and complimentary of opponents
*His charity/educational work
*His longevity

But the Kyrgios match was the last straw. He embarrassed himself on the court and off it, and revealed himself to be the petty, underhanded person I always suspected he was. Then he fired a ball at Tsitisipas during warmups. And then made psycho faces at his box during the Australian Open final. His persona is all an act.



They aren't all the same though. Fed is the most dignified of the 3, and the least chippy/flinty. He's more accessible, more honest, more diplomatic and handles himself with a lot more composure generally speaking.

Yes there are things to dislike about Fed, but they are far fewer and nit-pickier. Rudeness to the umpire in the DelPo match, OK. Yelling "Shut up" to an opponent's box, OK.

But he won't stoop to the levels Rafa does to win. That crap is undignified, everyone knows it, and we just make excuses for Rafa doing it because he generates so much interest in the game.



Rafa isn't talented? Please. His uncle is a former Spanish soccer player nicknamed "The Beast" because of how astoundingly athletic and imposing he was. Rafa comes from a fabulously wealthy family that already included a legendary international pro athlete. This narrative of him just scrapping by on hard work alone is a myth.



This

Murray said it. I'm not sure which one he was talking about, but he openly referenced it.

Kyrgios put a syringe emoji in an Instagram post trashing Nadal and no one even said anything. It's an open secret.





You're both right.

1. The doping methods are always evolving, and because of the money at stake, they are always one step ahead of the testers
2. Tennis officials are well aware of it. They have no interest in seeing their stars be brought down like Lance Armstrong. I said above it was an open secret re: Nadal and I refuse to believe he is the only one



I'm a huge FedFan but I'd be naive not to suspect him too.

Him being out of breath isn't a reason though. He doesn't get out of breath because he doesn't chase every ball down. He plays fast on his serve, tries to end points quickly, and doesn't get into long, punishing rallies.

Reasons to suspect Fed are the fact that he came back from looking absolutely done in 2016 and just cut through the entire ATP tour in 2017.

Sudden, prolonged absences from the sport are always a red flag. That was initially what led me to suspect Rafa. You have to take time off to get clean, so you make up an injury.

I always thought that Fed would be tempted to use them (if he hadn't already) as his career wore on and he found himself skilled enough to beat anyone but not fit/strong enough to keep winning Slams. 2014, 2015, 2016...take your pick as to when he might have reached his breaking point.

Another red flag to me is that he has had two sets of twins. One set of girls and one set of boys. The odds of that are..."infinitesimal" is putting it mildly...unless you are doing IVF. IVF is notorious for producing twins and in this case it is almost obvious that IVF was done, likely both times. Why?

You don't have to make such a huge leap to imagine that they froze his sperm a long time ago in case (or assuming) that he might affect his fertility with the demands of his professional life...up to and including taking PEDs which are notorious for causing fertility problems.

I love the guy and he is my favorite athlete of all time and it isn't even close.

But I'm also a realist, and I fully accept the possibility that doping has been a part of top-tier tennis for decades.
Compulsory service required of all Swiss men..... claims to have a bad back.......gets out of it (R. Slackerer)..........then goes on to compete at an age when most others have retired........now, about that Majorcan topspin monkey 'faking injuries' .....?

"had tried to respect him...."
So did I ..........and then I launched into a 10,000 word screed--that I wouldn't even waste my own time reading--that included blasting the 'phony' character of a guy I don't even know..........now, that's what I call 'attempted respect' . . : )
 
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#72
I don't dislike Nadal but I don't want to see him eclipse Federer's slam record. It's as simple as that.

I prefer Fed's game over Nadal's. There's more flair and artistry, and he can win points in more ways.
 
#73
The Lendl effect. He's a dominant champion but doesn't dominate the same way among the fans. The main fanwar is between Federer and Djokovic, the Vamøs Brigade gets caught in between. He doesn't have Federer's cool confidence or Djokovic's exuberance. He's more human.
Sure you could make that argument for their personalities.
Lendl's personality never bothered me. I got it. He did his best at deflecting all of the insults of the media.
I was a big Lendl fan back in the day and now I am a big Fed fan.
 
#78
My answers, in no particular order:

*Faking injuries
*Using MTOs to ice his opponents when he's losing
*Abusing the pace of the game: taking too long on his own serve (he is the reason for the serve clock), refusing to play at the server's pace when receiving (e.g. Kyrgios Acapulco)
*Obvious PED use
*Absurd grunting, likely one more piece of gamesmanship

I had tried to respect him because of:

*His accomplishments
*His reflexive attempts to be humble and complimentary of opponents
*His charity/educational work
*His longevity

But the Kyrgios match was the last straw. He embarrassed himself on the court and off it, and revealed himself to be the petty, underhanded person I always suspected he was. Then he fired a ball at Tsitisipas during warmups. And then made psycho faces at his box during the Australian Open final. His persona is all an act.



They aren't all the same though. Fed is the most dignified of the 3, and the least chippy/flinty. He's more accessible, more honest, more diplomatic and handles himself with a lot more composure generally speaking.

Yes there are things to dislike about Fed, but they are far fewer and nit-pickier. Rudeness to the umpire in the DelPo match, OK. Yelling "Shut up" to an opponent's box, OK.

But he won't stoop to the levels Rafa does to win. That crap is undignified, everyone knows it, and we just make excuses for Rafa doing it because he generates so much interest in the game.



Rafa isn't talented? Please. His uncle is a former Spanish soccer player nicknamed "The Beast" because of how astoundingly athletic and imposing he was. Rafa comes from a fabulously wealthy family that already included a legendary international pro athlete. This narrative of him just scrapping by on hard work alone is a myth.



This

Murray said it. I'm not sure which one he was talking about, but he openly referenced it.

Kyrgios put a syringe emoji in an Instagram post trashing Nadal and no one even said anything. It's an open secret.





You're both right.

1. The doping methods are always evolving, and because of the money at stake, they are always one step ahead of the testers
2. Tennis officials are well aware of it. They have no interest in seeing their stars be brought down like Lance Armstrong. I said above it was an open secret re: Nadal and I refuse to believe he is the only one



I'm a huge FedFan but I'd be naive not to suspect him too.

Him being out of breath isn't a reason though. He doesn't get out of breath because he doesn't chase every ball down. He plays fast on his serve, tries to end points quickly, and doesn't get into long, punishing rallies.

Reasons to suspect Fed are the fact that he came back from looking absolutely done in 2016 and just cut through the entire ATP tour in 2017.

Sudden, prolonged absences from the sport are always a red flag. That was initially what led me to suspect Rafa. You have to take time off to get clean, so you make up an injury.

I always thought that Fed would be tempted to use them (if he hadn't already) as his career wore on and he found himself skilled enough to beat anyone but not fit/strong enough to keep winning Slams. 2014, 2015, 2016...take your pick as to when he might have reached his breaking point.

Another red flag to me is that he has had two sets of twins. One set of girls and one set of boys. The odds of that are..."infinitesimal" is putting it mildly...unless you are doing IVF. IVF is notorious for producing twins and in this case it is almost obvious that IVF was done, likely both times. Why?

You don't have to make such a huge leap to imagine that they froze his sperm a long time ago in case (or assuming) that he might affect his fertility with the demands of his professional life...up to and including taking PEDs which are notorious for causing fertility problems.

I love the guy and he is my favorite athlete of all time and it isn't even close.

But I'm also a realist, and I fully accept the possibility that doping has been a part of top-tier tennis for decades.
When I said I don't like such people, I meant it. They concoct baseless allegations, conspiracy theories, hurl PED abuse without a shred of evidence, so jealous and worship their idol that nothing is off limits to diminish Rafa's achievements.

That person is YOU. Yes YOU.
 

NKDM

Professional
#79
My answers, in no particular order:

*Faking injuries
*Using MTOs to ice his opponents when he's losing
*Abusing the pace of the game: taking too long on his own serve (he is the reason for the serve clock), refusing to play at the server's pace when receiving (e.g. Kyrgios Acapulco)
*Obvious PED use
*Absurd grunting, likely one more piece of gamesmanship

I had tried to respect him because of:

*His accomplishments
*His reflexive attempts to be humble and complimentary of opponents
*His charity/educational work
*His longevity

But the Kyrgios match was the last straw. He embarrassed himself on the court and off it, and revealed himself to be the petty, underhanded person I always suspected he was. Then he fired a ball at Tsitisipas during warmups. And then made psycho faces at his box during the Australian Open final. His persona is all an act.



They aren't all the same though. Fed is the most dignified of the 3, and the least chippy/flinty. He's more accessible, more honest, more diplomatic and handles himself with a lot more composure generally speaking.

Yes there are things to dislike about Fed, but they are far fewer and nit-pickier. Rudeness to the umpire in the DelPo match, OK. Yelling "Shut up" to an opponent's box, OK.

But he won't stoop to the levels Rafa does to win. That crap is undignified, everyone knows it, and we just make excuses for Rafa doing it because he generates so much interest in the game.



Rafa isn't talented? Please. His uncle is a former Spanish soccer player nicknamed "The Beast" because of how astoundingly athletic and imposing he was. Rafa comes from a fabulously wealthy family that already included a legendary international pro athlete. This narrative of him just scrapping by on hard work alone is a myth.



This

Murray said it. I'm not sure which one he was talking about, but he openly referenced it.

Kyrgios put a syringe emoji in an Instagram post trashing Nadal and no one even said anything. It's an open secret.





You're both right.

1. The doping methods are always evolving, and because of the money at stake, they are always one step ahead of the testers
2. Tennis officials are well aware of it. They have no interest in seeing their stars be brought down like Lance Armstrong. I said above it was an open secret re: Nadal and I refuse to believe he is the only one



I'm a huge FedFan but I'd be naive not to suspect him too.

Him being out of breath isn't a reason though. He doesn't get out of breath because he doesn't chase every ball down. He plays fast on his serve, tries to end points quickly, and doesn't get into long, punishing rallies.

Reasons to suspect Fed are the fact that he came back from looking absolutely done in 2016 and just cut through the entire ATP tour in 2017.

Sudden, prolonged absences from the sport are always a red flag. That was initially what led me to suspect Rafa. You have to take time off to get clean, so you make up an injury.

I always thought that Fed would be tempted to use them (if he hadn't already) as his career wore on and he found himself skilled enough to beat anyone but not fit/strong enough to keep winning Slams. 2014, 2015, 2016...take your pick as to when he might have reached his breaking point.

Another red flag to me is that he has had two sets of twins. One set of girls and one set of boys. The odds of that are..."infinitesimal" is putting it mildly...unless you are doing IVF. IVF is notorious for producing twins and in this case it is almost obvious that IVF was done, likely both times. Why?

You don't have to make such a huge leap to imagine that they froze his sperm a long time ago in case (or assuming) that he might affect his fertility with the demands of his professional life...up to and including taking PEDs which are notorious for causing fertility problems.

I love the guy and he is my favorite athlete of all time and it isn't even close.

But I'm also a realist, and I fully accept the possibility that doping has been a part of top-tier tennis for decades.
I was nodding along until your theory about Fed’s twins.

Do you know twins run in his family?

Apparently, having twins runs in the family. Federer’s only sibling, older sister Diana, is a mother to a set of boy-and-girl twins, while his maternal grandmother was also a twin
https://heavy.com/sports/2017/07/ro...ictures-twins-daughters-sons-parents-mom-dad/

Look I’m not saying he couldn’t have doped, but bringing up the twins as an example is really reaching.... (unless his sis and grandma were doping too)

Agree that the 2017 return was simply eye popping, but then again he wasn’t total trash in 2015 2016 before getting injured. The time off could really have helped him in more ways than one.

If I had to offer any theories as to whether he doped, I’d say look,at his pics from 2007, 2008 and compare them to now. His face is so much more leaner, gaunter than in his prime - in his late twenties. What changed? He said he never changed his diet; of course he’s always been active as an athlete. That would be my only doubtful evidence of something. Usually people get heavier as they age... even athletes, or at best maintain their youthful weight.
 
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