Why split step?

[LeeD]

Wow, "3-4 hour" hitting sessions...
No wonder you young guys get so good, while us old folkes keep slipping worse and worse.
My longest hitting sessions last about 20 minutes with interest, and it slips quickly downhill from there. I know a 4.0 level 73 year old who can hit for maybe 10 minutes, then never moves his feet after that.
Together, we've taken sets from real 4.5 doubles players, but usually lose if the set get's competitive or long. He USED to be a solid 4.5, as was I about 2 lifetimes ago.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

3-4 does seem very long. I only hit for max 3 hours over a whole day with long breaks

 

[Ballinbob]

Instinct. Just move. Split step all the time. Left foot forward on fh volley, right foot forward on bh volley. I dont think you should devote anytime to practicing this. The more steps you take the better, if you can do 6 steps instead of 3 good if you can do 7 steps instead of 6 that is even better! Backhand groundstroke always try to get the right foot across for righties, if not open stance. Forehand, open stance, semi open stance (closed on short ball perhaps). Try and get set and hit or else what is very common these days is the open stance slide and hit yourself into the ideal recovery position. Wawrinka is a master of this if you watch his cc forehand.

This makes sense I think. Split stepping I think is the essence of all good footwork anyway so I'll focus on that most. I have a problem that I hit too many neutral/closed stance forehands which hurts my recovery. Every time I make a conscious effort to hit open stance forehands I move better and my game flows better. Open stance forehand is definitely the way to go

Wow, "3-4 hour" hitting sessions...
No wonder you young guys get so good, while us old folkes keep slipping worse and worse.
My longest hitting sessions last about 20 minutes with interest, and it slips quickly downhill from there. I know a 4.0 level 73 year old who can hit for maybe 10 minutes, then never moves his feet after that.
Together, we've taken sets from real 4.5 doubles players, but usually lose if the set get's competitive or long. He USED to be a solid 4.5, as was I about 2 lifetimes ago.

Haha there's a 70-75 year old guy at my local courts who is a 4.0. He has great hands but alas he struggles when facing big hitters.

And yeah I'm lucky to have a group of 6-12 4.5+ players (2 of whom are 5.0's) who all play 3-4 hours a day if the weather is nice. Usually we can get at least 6 out to the courts. I improve most when I play the 5.0's though. It's always a challenge... I can be serving well and making 70%+ first serves and still lose 1 and 2. But I learn a ton each time

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

And yeah I'm lucky to have a group of 6-12 4.5+ players (2 of whom are 5.0's) who all play 3-4 hours a day if the weather is nice. Usually we can get at least 6 out to the courts. I improve most when I play the 5.0's though. It's always a challenge... I can be serving well and making 70%+ first serves and still lose 1 and 2. But I learn a ton each time

That makes me sad. I only practice with a low 4.5 and a 5.0 in my club. Pretty much all my life, I have always practiced with players worse than me. If I was in a better club(lots of better players to hit with) I would be high 5.5 by now I believe.

 

[LeeD]

The better you guys get, the fewer the opportunities for a wide range of practice partners.
While tons of guys would like to practice with you, you will find most are useless and a waste of time, so you narrow down your choices more and more, until you need to travel long distances, arrange matches and practices by a little black book, or move to serious tennis, meaning travelling more and more across the district, state, then nation to find competitive partners.
I'm kinda lucky being a 4.0 player. All the playground players want me on their teams, most 4.0's welcome me, most 4.5's see me as an emergency fill in, and well, realistically there is no reason a 5.0 should be hitting with me.

 

[Ballinbob]

That makes me sad. I only practice with a low 4.5 and a 5.0 in my club. Pretty much all my life, I have always practiced with players worse than me. If I was in a better club(lots of better players to hit with) I would be high 5.5 by now I believe.

Yeah it's hard to find good hitting partners at 5.0, my friend was also complaining about that. He said if he plays an open tournament he'll lose 1 and 1 to a Division I college player and if he plays 5.0 tournaments the draws are very small and not worth the money.

I am quite lucky though as whenever I need help with something one of the two 5.0's we have will help me out. He's been helping me out with my new serve now as well

 

[Topspin Shot]

Not necessarily. I thought that I had addressed this in this thread but perhaps not. However, I have definitely discussed this in previous threads more than once. Landing neutral (2-footed) as opposed to unbalanced (1-footed) depends, in large part, on the exact timing of the execution of the split step.

Beginning and (low) intermediate players are often encouraged to initiate the hop on the forward swing such that they are landing the split step at contact or just as the ball is coming off the opponent's racket. This is usually encouraged so that they do not split step too late. Such a split step will often result in a neutral landing (but the weight is shifted almost immediately assuming that the player had not split step way too early).

Elite players, OTOH, tend to split step a scosh later. They will start the hop either on the opponent's forward swing or just as their strings are making contact. This means that they will nearly always land slightly later than lower level players = a short time after the ball has left the stringbed and is on its way. Taking a look at the slow motion videos from FYB and Essential Tennis, it can be seen that a given player, like Ferrer, has a slight variation with the initiation of his split hop. As a result of this, he sometimes lands 2-footed or very nearly neutral while, at other times it is more of a 1-footed landing. I have observed this with other elite players as well (in these and other videos).

Jeff Salzenstein also discusses the reverse split step in his videos.

I think the pros land on both feet when the ball is hit to them, or they are unable to read the trajectory of the incoming ball when they are in the air. Landing on one foot is more desirable IMO because it helps you get a better push to the ball.

 

[LeeD]

Landing on ONE foot is slower to push off.
Being neutral is faster.
TRY it. I played OLB in football for 3 years, played varsity basketball on a team that played only man on man D in high school.
Landing on one foot, there is a momentary hesistation as you recover from overloading that foot.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

What are recovery steps?

After you hit a ball, you will usually employ a side step shuffle to return to an optimal position (not necessarily the middle). If you are pulled vey wide on a shot you might employ a couple of sprint steps prior to the side step shuffle. The side step footwork enables you to execute a split step more easily if you need to do so before you get to your optimal recovery position.

 

[Fintft]

So much split stepping has hurt the balls on my left foot after yesterday's 2 h match (won in a TB).

It could be moving to Asiscs GR5 from Nike CB's 4.3, or the indoor hart courts. Having 220 lbs at 6'2" doesn't help either.
The good news is that I got to every short ball

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I think the pros land on both feet when the ball is hit to them, or they are unable to read the trajectory of the incoming ball when they are in the air. Landing on one foot is more desirable IMO because it helps you get a better push to the ball.

Landing on ONE foot is slower to push off.
Being neutral is faster.
TRY it. I played OLB in football for 3 years, played varsity basketball on a team that played only man on man D in high school.
Landing on one foot, there is a momentary hesistation as you recover from overloading that foot.

As long as you have more weight on one of the feet, it is basically the same mechanism. But neutral I can not see giving you any momentum/thrust in the desired direction.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ Landing neutral (or nearly neutral) should still allow for an explosive movement, utilizing the stretch-shortening cycle as long as the next step (or weight shift) happens immediately after the landing. If there is a delay for the next movement, some/much of the advantage is lost. However, one can still derive some benefit if the landing has put the player in a more athletic stance -- feet a bit more than shoulder width apart, knees bent and heels off the ground.
.

 

[bhupaes]

^^^ I feel that split stepping a bit early is okay. The pros time it so that they land with one foot unweighted and turned where they want to move - all the time. It happens to me once in while... but mostly, I split step a little early and land neutrally. As you say, it still makes a huge difference, because I can push off where I want to while the legs are loaded and I'm still moving.

Tennis is not an exact science for us amateurs, it seems... one does what one can with what one has!

 

[dennis10is]

I was taught that the main function of the split steps is to air the gonadal area of free radicals. You don't want to be known as a yeasty codpiece.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

^ Landing neutral (or nearly neutral) should still allow for an explosive movement, utilizing the stretch-shortening cycle as long as the next step (or weight shift) happens immediately after the landing.
.

Yes, but that would start with having less pressure on on leg and more on the other, so imo its the same.

 

[LeeD]

Split step is to allow instant reaction to the direction of the ball.
Think of the timing. You have to land on both feet, equally weighted.
If you landed on one foot or the other, you have already determined the location of the ball. You cannot adjust while in the air.
Land on both feet.
A shortstop, 3rd baseman, or cornerback sets with both feet firmly planted, about 28" apart. That allows them to react to either direction, or to get out of their own way.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Split step is to allow instant reaction to the direction of the ball.
Think of the timing. You have to land on both feet, equally weighted.
If you landed on one foot or the other, you have already determined the location of the ball. You cannot adjust while in the air.
Land on both feet.
A shortstop, 3rd baseman, or cornerback sets with both feet firmly planted, about 28" apart. That allows them to react to either direction, or to get out of their own way.

Sorry Lee, but you're unequivocally wrong. Not one of these videos shows a tennis/baseball player landing equally weighted on both feet. And yes, by the time you land, you should have already determined the direction of the ball. This is possible because you are at the peak of the hop when the other player contacts the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCy23di6rM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQgHPwKQKho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWqnJeC6ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJEdvKcGeh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjbU3hBjMqI

 

[LeeD]

DJ is not split stepping, but reacting to direction of ball with both feet planted.
Fed lands on his left foot, reguardless of forehand or backhand.

 

[LeeD]

All 3 baseball players start with BOTH feet down, then move to position to plant both feet down to recieve the ball.

 

[LeeD]

IN MMI's vid of Haas/Fog, Fog does the same thing every time to recieve serve. He starts wide ready, moves his left foot inwards, then moves his left foot back out to the previous wide ready position.

 

[Topspin Shot]

All 3 baseball players start with BOTH feet down, then move to position to plant both feet down to recieve the ball.

They initiate the jump with both feet down, which is acceptable, but they do not land equally weighted on both feet.

 

[Topspin Shot]

DJ is not split stepping, but reacting to direction of ball with both feet planted.
Fed lands on his left foot, reguardless of forehand or backhand.

Djokovic is split stepping though with subtlety. Look at the Federer video again, specifically the split steps to start the video and the one at the one minute mark. He lands on his right foot in preparation to hit backhands both times.

 

[Cheetah]

DJ is not split stepping, but reacting to direction of ball with both feet planted.
Fed lands on his left foot, reguardless of forehand or backhand.

what are you talking about? no he doesn't. watch the video again.

 

[LeeD]

Which one?
I see a relaxed DJ just hitting, not moving.
Fed lands on left foot for the first backhand return, then lands on left foot for a forehand.

 

[LeeD]

Assuming we're talking about DJ hitting vids.
Yes, while he might land on one foot before the other, for sure, both feet end up down on the heels. Can anyone land exactly one foot exactly the same as the other?
NO, a decision made while you're in the air, cannot be translated to a decision to land with the push foot. Not enough time.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Haven't read this whole thread, but a quick scan over this last page shows a few misconceptions/misinformations.

It was discussed in another thread recently, but essentially elite players will often land on one foot ahead of the other to create a dynamic imbalance either by using a pivot step, or better still a gravity step. Landing on one foot ahead of the other is not slower than landing with even weight distribution.

 

[LeeD]

As usual, the voice of reason..
While it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to land on both feet dead evenly, it's a fact that both feet end up down and loaded, before a pushoff can occur.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Thanks Lee - I do my best to provide reason in threads

or is that not what you meant… ;o)

 

[LeeD]

Maybe we are all correct, and the PERCEPTION of what is happenning is different.
HenryHines co wrote a book about movement way back in the late '60's. Everything he wrote correlated with my experience.
I googled his name, and no reference to his book was mentioned.
We all know, to react quickly, we have to calm down, relax to a point, and ALLOW our reactions to govern our movements.
By deliberatingly landing on one foot or the other, we might be slowing down our reaction speed.
In 250+ motocross starts, I usually made top 5 starts in well over 3/4 of the attempts.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Haven't read this whole thread, but a quick scan over this last page shows a few misconceptions/misinformations.

It was discussed in another thread recently, but essentially elite players will often land on one foot ahead of the other to create a dynamic imbalance either by using a pivot step, or better still a gravity step. Landing on one foot ahead of the other is not slower than landing with even weight distribution.

Isn't this exactly what I was saying?

 

[LeeD]

You can claim that is what you meant.
I say, we don't PLAN or TRY to land with one foot ahead of the other, but due to body mechanics, it's possible.
Like Fed seemingly to be landing on his left foot, regardless of direction of incoming shot.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Probably Topspin, like I said - I didn't read all the thread and only scanned over this last page

 

[Topspin Shot]

You can claim that is what you meant.
I say, we don't PLAN or TRY to land with one foot ahead of the other, but due to body mechanics, it's possible.
Like Fed seemingly to be landing on his left foot, regardless of direction of incoming shot.

I think we do plan to land with one foot ahead of the other, and I don't think Fed lands on his left foot on that first backhand. If during the jump we read ball is coming to forehand, we land on left foot. If we read ball is coming to backhand, we land on right foot. If ball is coming right at us or within a step, or we fail to get a read on the ball, we may land on both feet.

Ash, please correct me if I'm wrong because I do not like misinformation, even/especially if it's coming from me.

 

[Ash_Smith]

^^^Yes, in an ideal world we would be landing as you describe and moving straight into a pivot step or even better a gravity step, to create that dynamic imbalance. During a rally this is the most efficient way of prepping, although on return of serve it is more likely to land on two feet and then push into a power step.

Caveat to all this, it is not easy to do and probably better for rec level players to split even and then jab step until they gain a real understanding of the mechanics of the movement and an awareness of their bodies to be able to perform the higher level skill. I will still refute the assertion however that it is faster to land even than to land on one leg and gravity step - it isn't and has been proven in many studies.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

As usual, the voice of reason..
While it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to land on both feet dead evenly, it's a fact that both feet end up down and loaded, before a pushoff can occur.

Its not difficult to land evenly, try to jump up and down. And you can start the sideways movement by not loading uniformly. It is basically a prerequisite for moving sideways; taking weight of one foot compared to the other.

Isn't this exactly what I was saying?

I would say so.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Fed lands on his left foot, reguardless of forehand or backhand.

No, in the slowmotion video he clearly lands on left foot once when moving to the right, and later lands on his right when moving left.

 

[LeeD]

Watch again....
Beginning of vid is most valid, landing on left foot, hitting backhand.
Later, when he hit's a forehand, he lands on left foot, as you said.
Later, he pushes off with right foot to hit a backhand. Don't count he was already moving to his left.
On return of serve, he lands on left foot, that is the only time he is not moving in a direction.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I have watched it again. Beginning of the video the shot is right at him, but 0.38 left foot down to move to the right, 1.06 right foot down to move to the left. Landing on left foot always would be ridicolous.
I suppose a few videos more could claify it, but it is getting late here in Copenhagen.

 

[LeeD]

Watched again. It seems, when Fed is to the left of court, he lands first with the left foot. When out right, he lands with right foot.
Court positioning might be a key.
Court positioning might determine a tendency to cover the open court.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Watched again. It seems, when Fed is to the left of court, he lands first with the left foot. When out right, he lands with right foot.
Court positioning might be a key.
Court positioning might determine a tendency to cover the open court.

The determinant is where the ball is going. Land on left foot for forehands, right foot for backhands to create dynamic imbalance. Both feet (but still with dynamic imbalance) is if the ball is very close to your body, as on some returns, or if you fail to read where the ball is going when you are in the air, again as on some returns. The first ball Federer hits in the video is a jam shot, but I still see him landing on his right foot. It is kind of hard to tell though, and even Federer may have made a mistake reading the ball. That happens even to the best of us!

 

[Povl Carstensen]

But look at fx 0.11 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5PaS-8DRs

 

[LeeD]

At 11, Fed lands on right foot to hit a backhand.
But right after that, to hit another backhand, he seems to land with both feet at the same time.

 

[Topspin Shot]

At 11, Fed lands on right foot to hit a backhand.
But right after that, to hit another backhand, he seems to land with both feet at the same time.

He did land on both feet but not by choice. The ball was hit behind him, so he was unable to shift his weight effectively enough where he could land on his right foot. He still did his best to get most of his weight on his right foot when he landed.

 

[LeeD]

I suspect more factors are involved.
1. Tendency of the player himself.
2. His court position.
3. Where he think's the ball is headed, so he leans that way, favoring the opposing foot.
4. What about a 2hbh player? Would he land on both feet more often?
5. If the player suspects a ball to his backhand, before he recognizes it, does he lean to his left and land on his right?

 

[Povl Carstensen]

The simple truth is that to start movement on a flat surface (being two legged) you must create unbalance. This can be done with both feet on the ground, and with the opposing foot to the desired direction to the ground. But not really with only the foot towards the desired direction down.

 

[LeeD]

Correct, you cannot stand with only the lead foot down, while the push foot is up in the air....and expect to get there quickly.

 

[Topspin Shot]

I suspect more factors are involved.
1. Tendency of the player himself.
2. His court position.
3. Where he think's the ball is headed, so he leans that way, favoring the opposing foot.
4. What about a 2hbh player? Would he land on both feet more often?
5. If the player suspects a ball to his backhand, before he recognizes it, does he lean to his left and land on his right?

1. Always a possibility though optimally the player lands on the outside foot.
2. A body shot may lead to a double footed landing though with a dynamic imbalance.
3. This can happen; actually, a perfect example is when Federer landed on both feet in that video. He was favoring the ball coming to his forehand, but the other guy hit behind him, and he couldn't react quickly enough to land on his right foot.
4. I don't think so, both from watching others and my own experiences (I have a two hander).
5. The way it normally goes is that you are not ready to commit before the split step. You push off so you will be at the top of the hop when the other guy hits the ball. By the time you land, you should know where the ball is going and be able to land on the outside foot.

 

[LeeD]

You land on the outside foot first, but then your inside foot comes down with almost equal weight, then your push off with the outside foot.
Is that the correct sequence?

 

[Cheetah]

You land on the foot opposite of the direction you want to go. You want to move left then you land on the right and push off. That is the fastest way to move from a split. Not equal balance.

 

[Cheetah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1uGf4T2Y74&list=PLDC05FF6AAA16EE6F&t=5m53s

...like that