Mainad
Bionic Poster
"Any way that you want to slice it - titles, matches, sets, games, or points - Roger Federer has no peer on a grass court".
Why The Grass Is Always Greener For Roger Federer
- Thread starter Mainad
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Deleted member 748597
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40-15
Mainad
Bionic Poster
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
"Any way that you want to slice it - titles, matches, sets, games, or points - Roger Federer has no peer on a grass court".
0-3 in Wimbledon finals against a certain Serb. If that makes Federer peerless on a grass court, I'll be looking to the kind English people to coin a word to describe the Serb!
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Never mind that all those finals were contested when Fed was 34, 35 and 38 years old against an opponent 6 years younger.
Think that enters into it?
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Machi ... agreed it was in Federer's later years. But that doesn't negate the wins because Djokovic has been beating Federer regularly since 2010 when Federer was under 30. Considering that, we cannot conclusively say Federer would have gotten the better of Djokovic in earlier years. I don't know if I'm getting the point across clearly but I hope you understand.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Yes, but most of these wins by Djokovic were also matched by Federer. Federer beat him in USO 2007,2008,2009, RG 2011, and W 2012, Whereas Djokovic beat him in AO 2008, USO 2009, 2011, AO 2011, and RG 2012. After that, Federer began to decline in level of play, and Djokovic was able to bounce back from his disappointing seasons in 2012 and 2013.
I have always thought that Djokovic and Federer were very evenly matched (evidenced by 3 40-15s), even on the biggest stages. Would have been extremely interesting to see who would come out on top the most if both were the same age...
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
What twisted logic. He only beat Fed once in 2010, lost 4 times.
He only started beating Fed regularly from 2011 onwards. 2011 is the year Fed turned 30. 75% of Djok's victories against Fed are from 2011 or later.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He's talking about Slams. Djokovic has been regularly beating Federer in Slams since 2010. This is true.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Not sure if 8-7 qualifies as peerless.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
A win is a win is a win. Especially when he came back from the dead to do it.
Doesn't detract from Fed's impeccable grass resume, but it certainly makes Djokovic one of the greatest ever on grass.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Even then. He makes it sound like Djok beat Fed consistently (in slams) before his 30's, by including the last year Fed was in his 20's.
Far more accurate would be: Djokovic beat Fed consistently in slams since the latter approached 30.
Fridge
Professional
no. Fed has been old since 2008. and fed was always top5 in those years no sign of slowing down
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Hmmmm...
What were their slams H2H in 2011 and 2012 - Prime Peak Novak?
I forget.
Did Fed sneak away any of those? Maybe they didn't even play in those years when Fed was moving into post-prime and 6 years older??
Anyway - I'm sure Novak beat Fed everywhere in those years.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Novak won at AO and USO 2011 and Fedr won at RG. Novak won at RG 2012 and Fedr won at Wimbledon 2012.
So 3-2 in two of Novak's prime years
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes yes yes we know. Fed is never old.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Yikes.
I appreciate you a lot King No1e, but you sure know how to crush a Fed fan!
How about bringing back that clip from RG 2011 or something?
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Yikes.
I appreciate you a lot King No1e, but you sure know how to crush a Fed fan!
How about bringing back that clip from RG 2011 or something?
Am I doing this right
Federev
G.O.A.T.
I'll take it at this point.
Am I doing this right
beard
Legend
Yes, he need all ideal conditions to beat him
He already has everything on his side, but need more... Oki...
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
I'm now just scared to see what would happen if Djokovic choked MP's against Federer in some future match. The Fed Brigade would rain holy hell on us and I can't say we wouldn't deserve it.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Fortunately for you breakpoints are Nole's specialty - not Fed's.
Also - as any Fed fan will tell you: Fed has been 47 years old since he turned 30, and Noval is already 47 years younger. So there's the age issue.
I think you're very safe!
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Federer can convert BP's against Djokovic, he just needs to give Nole an easy overhead
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well Djokovic wasn't consisently beating Federer in Slams before he reached 29. That I can agree with.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
From 2010-2012 it was 4-2 Novak.
2010 - 1-0 Novak
2011 - 2-1 Novak
2012 - 1- 1 even
I think it's fair to say that he was consistently beating him in those years, which doesn't mean he was winning all the matches.
2003, first title:
Federer served and volleyed 313 times out of 545 first and second-serve points, good for a head-turning 57 per cent.
2019, last final:
Federer served and volleyed just 72 times from 643 first and second-serve points, which was just 11 per cent.
Very true
The game has changed so much during Fed’s career . Rafa and Novak have played the same way from beginning to end while Roger has had to adapt. This is something we don’t talk about much here.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
2011 - You have 2-1. I know they had RG and USO. Did they play at the AO too that year?
I know it wasn’t Wimbledon.
beard
Legend
His reversed h2h against Nadal shows it's not all about age... Age is only one of the factors, and obviously not crucial one...
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea, AO
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Actually it does. It showed the importance of physical fitness and movement in their rivalry. Once Nadal was past his physical peak, he couldn't beat Federer by simply wearing him out anymore. When it became a tactical/shotmaking contest more than a physical one, Federer had the advantage with his new backhand.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
I missed 2011 AO
A full beat down.
Still - I think it’s clear Fed was past peak from 2010 onward.
At 6 years older he’ll always be on the wrong side of the age difference post prime. The longer they play the clearer that should be.
The fact the he could beat peak Novak at slams in 2011 and 2012 - and even be so close so often after - says more about Fed’s greatness than anything else to me.
But Novak’s awesome - I’m not trying to take anything away from him.
And respects to Roger for beating Novak in straight sets at 38 years.
As Novak said yesterday ‘Roger and Rafa and legends and made him the player he is today. He has learnt everything from them and still he does’.
There is really no reason to trumpet one over the other.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
This is absolutely ridiculous 
To play this many points on grass in his career and still lead this stat.
Percentage of points won on grass
1. Roger Federer = 54.7%(20,775/37,968)
2. Pete Sampras = 54.6% (11,693/21,402)
3. Novak Djokovic = 54.0% 11,864/21,964)
Federer has won nearly as many points as Djokovic has PLAYED.
To play this many points on grass in his career and still lead this stat.Percentage of points won on grass
1. Roger Federer = 54.7%(20,775/37,968)
2. Pete Sampras = 54.6% (11,693/21,402)
3. Novak Djokovic = 54.0% 11,864/21,964)
Federer has won nearly as many points as Djokovic has PLAYED.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
2-4 against Djokovic during his BOAT years is nothing to be ashamed of, with Federer clearly past his peak. People forget that Federer beat him 3 times in 2015 too, all in straight sets.
Contrary to the TTW narrative, I'd say Federer likes the matchup against Djokovic. With Nadal he's getting muscled around the court and backed into a corner. He doesn't get to execute his game, and Nadal beats him into submission. With Djokovic it's a shotmaking contest. In general, both players get to execute their games in full flow and whoever is better on the day wins - and because they're the 2 best shotmakers arguably in history, the rivalry has always remained close. Federer had the advantage when Djokovic hadn't matured fully pre-2010, and since then Djokovic has had the advantage, especially later on at the Slams when Federer's physical decline became more pronounced and he resorted to the hyper-aggressive tactics.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Federer also won more points in the 2019 Wimbledon finalThis is absolutely ridiculous
Percentage of points won on grass
1. Roger Federer = 54.7%(20,775/37,968)
2. Pete Sampras = 54.6% (11,693/21,402)
3. Novak Djokovic = 54.0% 11,864/21,964)
Federer has won nearly as many points as Djokovic has PLAYED.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
People chiming in with 3-0 as a rebuttal, deciding to ignore the SF from 2012, the age/timing factors, Fed's actual record on the surface (the main point) plus the fact that the 3-0 comprised 5, 4 and 5 set matches, with the result of the latter being decided by a margin that needs to be measured in Planck units. The 3-0 in finals simply means Djoker is one of the great grass players as well as an all star big match player; it does little to detract from Federer's mastery when even a modicum of nuance is considered.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
Federer also won more points in the 2019 Wimbledon final
beard
Legend
2003 Fed played some PhiliPussy guy, 2019 he played goat who knows to punish net approach.. Yes, something changed2003, first title:
Federer served and volleyed 313 times out of 545 first and second-serve points, good for a head-turning 57 per cent.
2019, last final:
Federer served and volleyed just 72 times from 643 first and second-serve points, which was just 11 per cent.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
SO SO SO SO SO SO SO RIGHT
beard
Legend
Well, if Fed gets better against Nadal, and worst against Novak who is about the same age, you can't simple excuse Fed using age... If he is old, and that is crucial, he should lose to Nadal too... So simple...
beard
Legend
He was playing many grass tournaments, not only Wimbledon... Absolute numbers mean nothing, percentages are important... Can you give percentages at Wimbledon, it would be interesting to see...This is absolutely ridiculous
Percentage of points won on grass
1. Roger Federer = 54.7%(20,775/37,968)
2. Pete Sampras = 54.6% (11,693/21,402)
3. Novak Djokovic = 54.0% 11,864/21,964)
Federer has won nearly as many points as Djokovic has PLAYED.
junior74
Bionic Poster
Yup
He played one brand of tennis to beat the old guard, then had to change things both because of surface and technology changes and obviously because of the young ATGs that built their games to beat him... We've seen changes in Rafa's game the last couple of years, when he began to slow down. The pure physical battles are probably advantage Djokovic now. This might give us a surprise at Roland Garros. If Novak can hang with Rafa, he may outlast him this time around. The most important thing: Who draws Thiem?
A shame with Wimbledon, but really looking forward to slam tennis again
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic never relied much on his physicality to beat Federer. He wins by being a better shotmaker from the baseline. That doesn't change with age. Nadal relies much more on his defense and his stamina to dominate. He's done a phenomenal job adapting to a more aggressive game since 2017, but it lost him the matchup advantage.
Basically, OIderer >>>> Olddal in matchup.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Wow, that's sixteen years.2003 Fed played some PhiliPussy guy, 2019 he played goat who knows to punish net approach.. Yes, something changed
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