Why the Nextgen has no power and will underperform

[bjk]

Looking at some of the biggest Nextgen players, like Tsitsipas, Kchachanov, Zverev, Coric, Kozlov, there is no power. Zverev and Kchachanov and Tsitsipas are 6'6 but don't play like it at all and in fact are clay court players. The biggest hitters are probably Rublev and maybe Donaldson and Tiafoe. (Opelka doesn't count).

So the reason for this lack of power is that a) most players develop on clay and b) they all hit with southwestern grips or worse. The only eastern grip in the group is Rublev and he happens to be the biggest hitter. The problem with the spinny grips is that it optimizes too early. It's good for winning junior tournaments but as players get older and reach the ATP they need power more than control. A good example of the dangers of too much spin is Jack Sock, who can't dominate anybody with his forehand because he can't generate enough pace. The older generation like Berdych, Fed, Gonzalez, Delpo, and Cilic have much more powerful forehands for the simple reason that they hit flatter.

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

 

[FudgeMyn]

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

Zverev wants to be the best. he'll take ped just like the top 4 did. he'll be fine for years to come unless a career-ending injury comes his way.

 

[bjk]

My point was that they are soft hitters. That might mean they break down faster. Fed will last longer than Djokovic or Murray. But the main point was that they don't hit hard enough for their height and for the pro game.

 

[Surion]

Looking at some of the biggest Nextgen players, like Tsitsipas, Kchachanov, Zverev, Coric, Kozlov, there is no power. Zverev and Kchachanov and Tsitsipas are 6'6 but don't play like it at all and in fact are clay court players. The biggest hitters are probably Rublev and maybe Donaldson and Tiafoe. (Opelka doesn't count).

So the reason for this lack of power is that a) most players develop on clay and b) they all hit with southwestern grips or worse. The only eastern grip in the group is Rublev and he happens to be the biggest hitter. The problem with the spinny grips is that it optimizes too early. It's good for winning junior tournaments but as players get older and reach the ATP they need power more than control. A good example of the dangers of too much spin is Jack Sock, who can't dominate anybody with his forehand because he can't generate enough pace. The older generation like Berdych, Fed, Gonzalez, Delpo, and Cilic have much more powerful forehands for the simple reason that they hit flatter.

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

Zverev no power?
I dislike that kid but he got serious power of all wings.

 

[Surion]

Zverev wants to be the best. he'll take ped just like the top 4 did. he'll be fine for years to come unless a career-ending injury comes his way.

Are you trolling or just stupid?

 

[BlueClayGOAT]

More spin and less flat hitting is just a sign of the times I suppose. You can't win matches just hitting flat on today's courts.
That said, a lot of those guys have plenty of power.
Zverev especially can absolutely thrash it off either wing.

 

[bjk]

Tsonga is 19-2 indoors this year and just beat Zverev. Nextgen has no power, that's why the old men are still winning matches, especially on fast surfaces. The amazing thing is that young players like Dimitrov, Chung, Shapo, Rublev all trained on indoor courts when indoor courts got cheaper, and they still can't beat the old men on indoor courts. Spinny shots are good for junior tennis but overoptimize too early and fail at ATP level.

 

[tennisaddict]

The new NextGen may be worse than the previous NextGen of Dmitrov, Raonic and Nishikori.

When is the 3rd batch coming out ?

 

[ONgame]

Technique is never the problem. It's all about timing.
Current old generation caught the right timing when efficient physical training started to really affect players.
Compared to the retired generation before them, they have much longer longevity.
Compared to the next gens, they have more experience in both playing and winning matches.

 

[bjk]

That's possible Ongame but have you seen Tsonga and Fed? These don't look like guys who are in fabulous shape.

 

[George Turner]

Looking at some of the biggest Nextgen players, like Tsitsipas, Kchachanov, Zverev, Coric, Kozlov, there is no power. Zverev and Kchachanov and Tsitsipas are 6'6 but don't play like it at all and in fact are clay court players. The biggest hitters are probably Rublev and maybe Donaldson and Tiafoe. (Opelka doesn't count).

So the reason for this lack of power is that a) most players develop on clay and b) they all hit with southwestern grips or worse. The only eastern grip in the group is Rublev and he happens to be the biggest hitter. The problem with the spinny grips is that it optimizes too early. It's good for winning junior tournaments but as players get older and reach the ATP they need power more than control. A good example of the dangers of too much spin is Jack Sock, who can't dominate anybody with his forehand because he can't generate enough pace. The older generation like Berdych, Fed, Gonzalez, Delpo, and Cilic have much more powerful forehands for the simple reason that they hit flatter.

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

Da ***??

Tiafoe has no power, Rublev can inject pace into his groundstrokes but he's not a power hitter and his serve is a liability. Khackanov and Zverev are pretty big hitters. You've got your power-non power players mixed up dude!

Apart from Zverev and Shapo the next gen look worse than the lost gen.

 

[prairiegirl]

This kind of thread is so frustrating. Why are people so consumed with power hitting? There is far more to tennis than that. But, unfortunately, people who have a very poor knowledge of tennis history seem to get this. Tennis is also a game of finesse, agility, the ability to develop a wide arsenal of shots, vary the serves with speed and spin, and out-think your opponent. Power isn't everything and it never will be. As to the next gen, I also believe Felix Auger-Alliasime shows a great deal of promise, and I like Tsitsipas too. It's going to take them time and that's what it is. Each new generation finds its stars and this one will as well.

 

[BeatlesFan]

That's possible Ongame but have you seen Tsonga and Fed? These don't look like guys who are in fabulous shape.

Have you ever stood next to Fed? His legs are Sequoias. The only tennis player I have ever seen up close with more muscular legs were Cash, Mecir and Murray. It's just laughable that you think Fed isn't in world class shape.

 

[prairiegirl]

He is. But again, power is only a part of the game.

 

[bjk]

This kind of thread is so frustrating. Why are people so consumed with power hitting? There is far more to tennis than that. But, unfortunately, people who have a very poor knowledge of tennis history seem to get this. Tennis is also a game of finesse, agility, the ability to develop a wide arsenal of shots, vary the serves with speed and spin, and out-think your opponent. Power isn't everything and it never will be. As to the next gen, I also believe Felix Auger-Alliasime shows a great deal of promise, and I like Tsitsipas too. It's going to take them time and that's what it is. Each new generation finds its stars and this one will as well.

Sure, power isn't everything. But Nextgen doesn't have any variety either. Where are the slice backhands, the net game, the touch shots? Zverev, Kchachanov, Kozlov, Donaldson, they all have the same game. No variety. When everybody plays the same, nobody has an advantage. It's not an accident that the breakout players (Thiem, Dimitrov, Shapo) all hit one handed backhands? What are the odds of that, conidering that 98% of juniors hit 2-handed? Like I said, Nextgen has a game that's suited to winning junior matches, not winning ATP matches. They need more power, more variety, less boring baseline play. What is the point of being 6'6 like Khachanov if you won't hit hard and won't use your reach at the net? Might as well be 5'7 like Diego Schwartzman. It's utterly embarrassing that nobody can beat Nadal and Fed. Nextgen isn't just dominated by Nadal and Fed, they probably would be dominated by peak Nalbandian.

 

[prairiegirl]

I have to say that I agree with you about this. Far too many of the younger players think all they need is a hammer serve, a powerful forehand, and a so-so two handed backhand. In fact, I also think it's no accident that most of the greatest players in history have had one handed backhands; Laver, Navratilova, McEnroe, Federer, and others. The exceptions are Borg, Nadal, Evert and Djokovic. I think the court is still out on Murray's career, and in my opinion, far too many kids are being taught a useless two handed back handed, when the one hander is far more flexible, and can be just as powerful. Don't get the whole two hander thing at all.

 

[BringBackWood]

This kind of thread is so frustrating. Why are people so consumed with power hitting? There is far more to tennis than that. But, unfortunately, people who have a very poor knowledge of tennis history seem to get this. Tennis is also a game of finesse, agility, the ability to develop a wide arsenal of shots, vary the serves with speed and spin, and out-think your opponent. Power isn't everything and it never will be. As to the next gen, I also believe Felix Auger-Alliasime shows a great deal of promise, and I like Tsitsipas too. It's going to take them time and that's what it is. Each new generation finds its stars and this one will as well.

The problem is those kinds of things aren't rewarded much anymore.

 

[Username_]

These nextgen won't ever last as long on the court, compared to the oldies when they had to play BO5 masters.

They're living in BO3 and fast 4 (Milan finals) matches

 

[Charlemagne]

Zverev wants to be the best. he'll take ped just like the top 4 did. he'll be fine for years to come unless a career-ending injury comes his way.

Any proof the top 4 took peds??

 

[Red Rick]

Any proof the top 4 took peds??

Any proof they didn't?

I'm pretty sure they have tested negative less often than Lance.'

Physical edges are so thin

Seasons are super hard and long

Benefits of doping would be tremendous

ATP has no benefit in catching dopers when nobody gives a damn

Human nature


Why would I assume anyone in the top 20 is clean?

 

[donquijote]

Nadal, Djokovic and Murray didn't need power to win tournaments and become No1.

 

[pushing_wins]

Looking at some of the biggest Nextgen players, like Tsitsipas, Kchachanov, Zverev, Coric, Kozlov, there is no power. Zverev and Kchachanov and Tsitsipas are 6'6 but don't play like it at all and in fact are clay court players. The biggest hitters are probably Rublev and maybe Donaldson and Tiafoe. (Opelka doesn't count).

So the reason for this lack of power is that a) most players develop on clay and b) they all hit with southwestern grips or worse. The only eastern grip in the group is Rublev and he happens to be the biggest hitter. The problem with the spinny grips is that it optimizes too early. It's good for winning junior tournaments but as players get older and reach the ATP they need power more than control. A good example of the dangers of too much spin is Jack Sock, who can't dominate anybody with his forehand because he can't generate enough pace. The older generation like Berdych, Fed, Gonzalez, Delpo, and Cilic have much more powerful forehands for the simple reason that they hit flatter.

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

kyrgios also lacks power?

 

[bjk]

Kyrgios is a big hitter obviously. But he kind of proves my point . . . he's also had the most success against Fed and Nadal.

 

[racquetreligion]

The tour should split into the ATP and ATS = Association of Tennis Selfies

 

[papertank]

I wouldn’t say they don’t have any power, but more specifically they lack good forehands. All of the players you mentioned have better backhands than forehands, and that could be an issue. Of course they still have time to develop. Djokovic didn’t find his forehand until mid career.

 

[Meles]

Looking at some of the biggest Nextgen players, like Tsitsipas, Kchachanov, Zverev, Coric, Kozlov, there is no power. Zverev and Kchachanov and Tsitsipas are 6'6 but don't play like it at all and in fact are clay court players. The biggest hitters are probably Rublev and maybe Donaldson and Tiafoe. (Opelka doesn't count).

So the reason for this lack of power is that a) most players develop on clay and b) they all hit with southwestern grips or worse. The only eastern grip in the group is Rublev and he happens to be the biggest hitter. The problem with the spinny grips is that it optimizes too early. It's good for winning junior tournaments but as players get older and reach the ATP they need power more than control. A good example of the dangers of too much spin is Jack Sock, who can't dominate anybody with his forehand because he can't generate enough pace. The older generation like Berdych, Fed, Gonzalez, Delpo, and Cilic have much more powerful forehands for the simple reason that they hit flatter.

Of course the Nextgen is actually doing better than the Dimitrov/Nishikori generation but that's because they are peaking young. As these young players get older they will start to decline faster because players like Zverev won't be able to sustain 49 shot rallies like his matchpoint rally vs. Gasquet. If you are 6'6 and 20 years old and can't overpower Gasquet, you may peak early and start to break down much faster.

Really a great thread. I'm all on board with the dangers of the Western grip with American tennis. The current crop of Euro's is definitely semi-Western or a touch stronger.

The ball certainly can be hit in a very dominating way with the Western grip and Jack Sock is a prime example. The issue for Sock and others with such grips is the strongest players hit hard and take time away. Sock's forehand is very erratic under pressure with Tiafoe following in his footsteps, but a much fitter, more mobile player who might start to dominate enough in rallies to not be on the defensive as much.

The Euros generally not quite as extreme in their forehand grips, but year your right. Even the mighty Zedbot needs some incoming pace to cook his forehand.

Gonzalez was far from a flat hitter he just was able to hit so freaking hard that the trajectory flattened out. Your premise is a good one and certainly the following players have really made improvements:
1. Zverev - his forehand was just plain bad last year, now he can counterpunch as hard as you'd care.
2. Shavopalov - trained heavily with Bresnik last year who tweaked his forehand and turned it into something special. Bludgeoned Nadal with the thing, but it too may be a bit heavy and unreliable against the hardest hitters (certainly the case on fast hard in recent weeks.)

Your decline with age theory certainly applies to the largest players, but perhaps not Zverev as Cilic is still at peak level in his late 20's.

 

[Bender]

Since when did Jack Sock hit powderpuff balls off his forehand wing? The guy has one of the biggest forehands on tour.

Sick of people thinking that topspin = no power, and overrating flat strokes.

 

[Sudacafan]

Since when did Jack Sock hit powderpuff balls off his forehand wing? The guy has one of the biggest forehands on tour.

Sick of people thinking that topspin = no power, and overrating flat strokes.

Tennis grips per se won’t get you anywhere. There’s more to it. It all depends.