Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Indonesia.
Why touch tennis is not getting as popular as pickleball?
- Thread starter NeutralFan
- Start date
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Why aren’t they going to net? Must be nextgenners.
Malaysia
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
That looks more like real touch tennis to me.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
It would be an interesting concept to open up a racquet centre that includes all the different racquet sports available. Even if you did a few of them, that should increase traffic to you centres: You could include a gym, fitness and yoga room and futsal. People don’t need to go elsewhere
Table tennis
Squash
Badminton
Tennis
Pickle B
Touch T
Beach Tennis
Padel
Table tennis
Squash
Badminton
Tennis
Pickle B
Touch T
Beach Tennis
Padel
It would not work because the facilities for each sport will be very limited, and a critical mass of people cannot be playing each sport for socialization and tournaments.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
Well in that case you will lose and fragment your customer base or some of the sports mentioned will either sink or swim.
Especially if you add a swimming pool
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
This is correct.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
This is what’s happening now as tennis clubs convert half the facility to pickle.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Need more stamina training methinks. Two 21-point (rally scoring) games last, on average, 40-45 minutes. Prior to 2006, badminton employed a 15-point, slow death format. More grueling than the 21-point format. Two 15-point games typically lasted 50-60 minutes. And then you could take a short break before playing a 3rd game, if needed.
I had build up my aerobic & anaerobic endurance for the older 15-point format. Never found the newer 21-point rally scoring very satisfying. Too easy.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
That’s a bad solution then. The idea should be that tennis clubs add facilities and not take existing ones away.
There are a few issues to discuss:
1. How are tennis participation numbers going - same as before, going up or going down ?
2. Is pickleball for example attracting lots of new customers that have never played tennis, and what percentage of pickleball players are former tennis players who otherwise would have dropped out altogether from racquet sports ?
3. Do we have a problem with the land that councils release for recreational use that ties the hands of business people up to the extent that they have to bring more dollars in to pay the lease and all the costs of net zero programs being passed on to people. We have to think about these things. It’s obvious that pickleball takes up less room and you can get more people on to the same space, even more if you implement table tennis and badminton right?
4. I think tennis people need to become more innovative and more politically active in the interests of tennis.
I knew a time here in Australia when semi rural areas that had tennis facilities could relax because the hire of courts was very cheap, next to nothing so there was no pressure and KPI’s to meet. Needless to say, tennis was booming then. We have to look into things and work out how we got where we are with many things and how we are going to fix it, and we are not doing it.
I will also say that on this forum I have started threads about how to make tennis better but people are not interested. They would rather talk about inane and frivolous topics than have a genuine tennis conversation. Maybe this is the wrong forum for such things.
Yes I have played on the 15 scale too.
tennytive
Hall of Fame
I've been playing every Saturday afternoon since August. Returned after 50 years when I played in college (15 point format) and still love the game. Best players are Indian and Asian. We play doubles to 21 points, 2 games and then stop if people are waiting but if not, continue on. Last Saturday only 12 of us showed up so I played 3 hours and 15 minutes without a break.
Grueling is a proper word to describe what a good work out it was. Played Pickleball on Tuesday and was still sore from Saturday. Will play badminton again today. Only complaint I have is how expensive the shuttles are. $3 to $4 per and most often don't last a whole game. Everyone brings a tube to the court so it evens out. If anyone has the opportunity to play I would highly recommend it.
LOBALOT
Legend
I plan on playing outdoors this winter. Would it work to just purchase some junior 21" racquets and build up the grips or are they too flimsy?
I am going to order a net and the balls.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Outdoor badminton? Barely qualifies as badminton at all. Even the slightest wind is too much to play seriously.
Badminton racquets are normally 27" and typically weigh 80 to 95 grams. A 21" tennis racquet weighs more than twice that.
LOBALOT
Legend
No outdoor touch tennis not badminton. It is played with 21" racquets so my plan was to purchase junior 21" racquets and build up the grips.
Like build up the grip on this...
Head Radical Junior 21" Racquet | Tennis Warehouse
www.tennis-warehouse.com
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Do you realize that you replied to a post primarily about badminton? Not sure that poster knows much about touch tennis. Nor do I.No outdoor touch tennis not badminton. It is played with 21" racquets so my plan was to purchase junior 21" racquets and build up the grips.
Like build up the grip on this...
Head Radical Junior 21" Racquet | Tennis Warehouse
LOBALOT
Legend
Huh? Look at the subject...
Why touch tennis is not getting as popular as pickleball?
I am pretty sure it says touch tennis but you let me know if I am misreading this.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Look again at the specific post (#65) that you quoted. That post from @tennytive was about primarily about badminton, not touch tennis. He was responding to my post about badminton which was part of a sequence of badminton posts from various posters going back to post #9.
The 15-point and 21-point formats mentioned are about badminton scoring. I believe that touch tennis uses a scoring system similar to tennis. There are really only a few posts about touch tennis in this "touch tennis" thread. Perhaps you should direct your query to the OP since he might be one of the few posters here that know much about touch tennis.
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LOBALOT
Legend
Are you feeling ok?
The thread is abut touch tennis. I was simply asking about racquets about touch tennis. That the thread took a sideways curve into Badminton outdoors I am not really concerned about.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I'm feeling fine. Thank you for asking.
Guess you've not really been following the thread. While the thread title asks about touch tennis vs pickleball, only a small % of this thread has actually been about touch tennis. I assumed you were asking about substitute racquets for badminton since you had replied to a post about badminton.
The thread has really been more about pickleball, padel and badminton than it has been about touch tennis. I suspect that a lot of posters here know little about touch tennis so you're better off directing your query to the OP
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LOBALOT
Legend
OK sorry about that. I was kind of hoping that the touch tennis thread would be about touch tennis.
OK, thanks!
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
There have been several other touch tennis threads in the past few years. A fairly recent one in GPPD.
Looks like touch tennis was developed 2 decades ago in London. Might be able to find real TT racquets from a UK source. There’s also 1 on Amazon. Don’t know if they’re much different from a 21” junior tennis racquet
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Have not played TT but I have used the foam training ball intended for young tennis players. 7 cm in diameter. We would often warm up for tennis using that ball— especially on cold nights. Pretty easy to control that foam ball — even when hitting aggressively with topspin. I found this experience to be more enjoyable than pickleball (which I’ve played about 20x).
As an experienced tennis player, I found it easier to adjust to this foam ball than playing pickleball. But Pb was still fairly easy to learn. For someone who has not mastered tennis, Pb might be somewhat easier to pick up than TT.
TT uses a foam ball that’s 8 cm in diameter. It might be a bit sturdier than the 7 cm tennis foam training ball. Some pickleball players have used the 7 cm tennis ball for a quieter experience. But not suitable for outdoor play on windy days.
LOBALOT
Legend
Thank you and sorry for the difficulty. I am really interested in pursuing this as our town refused to leave the nets or the lights going this winter.
I am not really into PB so thought maybe if I bought a net and the stuff TT would be way more exercise / fast paced and fun.
Who knows if I can enthuse my pals to play outside now that the pandemic is for the most part behind us as I am sure most will say "It's too cold".
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
You could play TT on an existing Pb court. Don’t know the official net height for TT but I suspect that it’s similar to a regular tennis height. Pball nets are slightly lower — 34” in the center and 36” at the sidelines.
A TT court is slightly smaller than a Pb court or a doubles badminton court. The Pb/Badm court is 6.1x13.4 meters whereas a TT court is 6x12 meters
I’ve seen one reference that indicated that a 5x12 m court was used for TT singles. But another suggests that 6x12 m courts were used for both singles and doubs. Can anybody clarify this?
For Pb there is only one court size but, for badminton, the court is narrower for singles than doubs. So you might be able to use an indoor badminton court with a lower net
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LOBALOT
Legend
Exactly what I am thinking. They took the nets down from the dedicated PB courts too.
To be honest with you if I have to, I wouldn't mind "taping up" the PB courts.... Well you know.....
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Oops, typos in my prev post. TT courts sb 6x12m (not 6x21). Most images I’ve seen don’t show any alleys. So not sure if 5x21m is still used for TT singles.
Have you’ve seen any tennis courts with lines for the 60 ft U10 court? If you use the service boxes with U10 singles sidelines, you have a total playing area of 6.4x12.8 meters, slightly wider and longer than a 6x12m TT court, and slightly wider than a Pb (Badm doubs) court but shorter.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Note that Touch Tennis is the new kid on the block — 2 decades old — developed in the early 00s. Pickleball OTOH has been around since mid 1960s (and Padel since the late 1960s).
I first noticed pickleball picking up steam about 15-20 years ago. It was being taught in high schools in the area. I think in HS PE classes, only 2-3 weeks are spent on each sport. Not enuff time to get very far with tennis for most ppl. However, with Pickleball, they were probably getting decent rallies on the 1st or 2nd day.
Another reason that Pb took off was because it could use existing badminton courts. It duznt need a specialized court like TT does or a highly specialized court like Padel requires.
speedysteve
Legend
Touch Tennis can use a badminton court but shortened with the right net of course.
The difference is negligible. Badminton being very slightly wider.
A simple making tape baseline stays pretty well on indoor floors.
A reel of tape was included in my TT kit.
My racquet is weighted up to 234g from standard 204.
Includes several of over grips too.
I have long hands/fingers.
I agree with above, a good tennis player makes a good Touch Tennis player and the spins, full strokes, slice and kick serve etc, make it very rewarding to play.
The difference is negligible. Badminton being very slightly wider.
A simple making tape baseline stays pretty well on indoor floors.
A reel of tape was included in my TT kit.
My racquet is weighted up to 234g from standard 204.
Includes several of over grips too.
I have long hands/fingers.
I agree with above, a good tennis player makes a good Touch Tennis player and the spins, full strokes, slice and kick serve etc, make it very rewarding to play.
Why not on a pickleball court?
speedysteve
Legend
I don't know of such courts around here!
We don't have that problem, and long may it last
Also in winter, badminton courts are great because they are indoors.
Steve Davis
New User
touchtennis (all one word, lower case letters) provides all the drama and athleticism of the full court game, but is easier to play. The speed of ball, length of racquet, and dimension of court are designed to replicate the full court game. The touchtennis ball is engineered to be exactly the right size, weight, and speed required to allow players to make their hero shots more often than they would on a tennis court. The touchtennis ball takes spin, allowing you to hit topspin, underspin, kick serves, slice serves, etc. The touchtennis ball is high bouncing and very compliant, and can bounce on any surface. Check out touchtennis on youtube and instagram. You will see people playing on driveways, streets, back yards, beaches, even hockey rinks. touchtennis is played in 18 countries worldwide. YOU can be world ranked!
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
I noticed here that Padel is having a little flurry with tennis shops starting to stock their bats. I can’t believe they are asking over $300 AU for a small bat, same as a tennis racquet.
It won’t please the racquet stringers if this pattern continues.
With the tennis racquets used that come with diagonal string pattern, well they had the ability to last longer before needing restrings but both Padel and Pickleball certainly could change the income of a stringer and not in a good way. I wonder how Touch Tennis racquet strings last with the foam balls?
I will also add that all these sports mentioned are way behind in the take up in Australia compared to the US or Europe.
It won’t please the racquet stringers if this pattern continues.
With the tennis racquets used that come with diagonal string pattern, well they had the ability to last longer before needing restrings but both Padel and Pickleball certainly could change the income of a stringer and not in a good way. I wonder how Touch Tennis racquet strings last with the foam balls?
I will also add that all these sports mentioned are way behind in the take up in Australia compared to the US or Europe.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Easier to convert a badminton court for pickleball. Exact same outer dimensions as a doubles badminton court. But at some point in time, since its inception in 1965, the short service line (kitchen line) was moved back another 1/2 foot. It was originally 6.5 ft from the net but is now 7 ft for P'ball.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I believe that there are some Racketlon facilities that are set up for 4 of these sports = Tennis, Table Tennis, Badminton and Squash. There are some facilities in India, North America, Scandinavian countries and possibly other parts of Europe. It shouldn't be difficult to convert some of the badminton courts for Pickleball.
Steve Davis
New User
touchtennis USA will send a team of 2 men and 2 women to represent the USA at the World Team Championships in Spain in October. Get ranked! There is a US Open Series beginning April 27 in Detroit with a tournament every month.
LOBALOT
Legend
Wow where do you get further information on this?
I will google but in the mean time it might be handy to share here.
Steve Davis
New User
touchtennis is a global sport played in 18 countries worldwide. touchtennis originated in the UK, and very popular in Spain and other European countries. Spain, perhaps the credible country in tennis, has embraced touchtennis as a player development tool, replacing the red and orange transition balls. Spain is promoting touchtennis and building permanent facilities. Spain hosts the annual World Team Championships every year, where countries are invited to send teams to compete in a Ryder Cup type format. The USA has yet to field the team of 2 men and 2 women. This year there is US Open Series of tournaments in the metro Detroit area of increasing value starting April 27. Come to Detroit and earn global ranking points! There will be at least 5 tournaments with ranking points at stake. touchtennis USA will sponsor the 2 men and 2 women to travel to Valledolid Spain in October. The player selection will be based on 3 criteria: rankings, promotion of touchtennis, and enthusiasm for the game. Check out our instagram and facebook posts for further updates.
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