You must also remember his serve improved a lot as well over the years, so even if his rally length did not change as much, he got a lot more free points on his serve than when he was younger.Nadal did not succeed AT ALL if you think he did this well.
Rally length increase to 4.9
Even his rally aggression which improved a bit is still below average nole rally aggression.
You can not turn a Corolla into a Ferrari by adding huge engine. The entire car need replacement.
Nadal did add some aggression but it was too late in the game for it to matter that much.
Allergy story is crap
He did not hold a piece of bread to his chest and feel his arm getting weaker
It's like the story about Fed in the bathtub...brother please
I just got done rewatching this fantastic match between Ljubicic and Nadal from Shanghai 2009. Ljubicic was holding his own and absolutely smacking the ball.2005 Nadal was just laughably fast and all over the court.
I miss the days when Nadal would tire everyone outI just got done rewatching this fantastic match between Ljubicic and Nadal from Shanghai 2009. Ljubicic was holding his own and absolutely smacking the ball.
Seeing how well he was covering the court as a bigger man was phenomenal, but 3/4 of the way through the second set he was done. Blew out his groin. It’s just a reminder of what type of hell a big man has to put his body through to try and hang with Nadal in a very attacking match on fast hardcourt where both players are spreading the court. Nadal has donated his body to tennis but people forget how masterful he is at taking an opponents legs out.
Some of those Ljubicic vs Nadal matches really hold up. Ljubicic got the better of Nadal sometimes but even when he lost to Nadal Rafa really brought out the best in Ljubicic’s big hitting and attacking game.
Epicness takes a lot more energy
Novak and Rog. Both have better longevity.I'd say he held on for quite long actually. Nadal had very good, arguably even great longevity for your average ATG. He comes off quite good in that department compared to anyone else basically, he had a brutal playing style but he was also a physical specimen (who has some great athletes in his family) and adapted well to remain a contender late in his career (the Moya period).
It's just that Novak is an anomaly. He has basically a perfect build for tennis, is made of rubber and has fanatical devotion to mental, physical and nutritional preparation.
Novak and Rog. Both have better longevity.
Rog is playing above 50 matches in age 35/36/37.
Nadal stopped at 35 itself. Age 36 how many matches he really played. 20? Maybe less.
But Fed reached RG semis in 2019 with a competitive draw. He was 37 and 3 quarters. That required athleticism. I contest that Rafa was never the same athlete much worse than Fed at same age post 30.Yeah Fed had great longevity too. I think he declined as an athlete faster than Djokodal but he had a great serve game (not just the serve as an isolated shot, but the service game) and had the ability to stay on the baseline and take the ball ridiculously early (even with a 1HBH), he was often half-volleying from the baseline basically.
But Fed reached RG semis in 2019 with a competitive draw. He was 37 and 3 quarters. That required athleticism. I contest that Rafa was never the same athlete much worse than Fed at same age post 30.
Fine. Then Fed reached AO semis in 2020. That would be like Nadal reaching AO semis in 2025. Next yearIn some ways clay is a young man's surface, in other ways it's not. You can actually use some smart netplay, angles and dropshots to mask the decline in physicality.
Unless Djokovic improves his level next year it's looking like his span as a serious slam contender will be no longer than either of Fedals (roughly about 16-17 years, Ned actually wins this with 17 flat). So these longevity arguments seem kind of silly to me. Sure, he hasn't yet suffered the terminal injuries Fedal did (although Federer in 2020 was still 15 months older than Djokovic now) but he hasn't been a serious slam contender in over a year.
Djokovic has been relatively more injury free than Nadal, and smarter with his scheduling than Federer though.
Oldest world number 1He won the Olympics Games at 37. On his worst surface and without dropping a set. That alone makes his longevity more impressive than Fedal's. They were younger when they won their last big title. He is also the oldest French Open winner, oldest US Open winner and oldest ATP Final winner.
After winning AO in 2009, he went to Rotterdam to play a 250 which exacerbated his knee problems to a degree that ruined the rest of 2009 IMO.He wasn't. He moved best of all in 2005, and then 2006 to early 2009. Even in the 2009 clay season, while Nadal was winning Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome, you can see that he isn't moving as well as he did at that year's Australian Open.
There was a further decline in Nadal's mobility after the 2014 Australian Open final disaster. Nadal then spent 2015-2016 trying to play the way he did when he was 20, while being around 10 years older. Toni's instinct in a crisis was always to double down on what worked before rather than try a new approach. That's where Moya comes in from 2017 and some changes are made to Nadal's approach, i.e. trying to shorten points, beef up the serve, save movement for when it's really needed.
Nadal in 2005 moved with wild abandon, and 2006 to early 2009 wasn't far behind.
I would say only 3/4 guys in open era are even in his league in terms of longevity.Why is Nadal only being compared to Djokovic for longevity?
Why is he not compared to others who came on the tour after him, and left before him?
Nadals longevity is insane, with the way he played. Theres no reason to only compare him to superhuman Djokovic.
Theres not many who can compare with him.
He won the Olympics Games at 37. On his worst surface and without dropping a set. That alone makes his longevity more impressive than Fedal's. They were younger when they won their last big title. He is also the oldest French Open winner, oldest US Open winner and oldest ATP Final winner.
I don't think Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles. Both being defensively minded generally does not make them similar IMO. To me that sounds like comparing Isner to Federer and calling them similar.Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles,
You are very right.I don't think Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles. Both being defensively minded generally does not make them similar IMO. To me that sounds like comparing Isner to Federer and calling them similar.
The devil is in the details, and in this case while both Djokovic and Nadal chased down balls, Nadal did it for much more time, more explosively and didn't have the flexibility Djokovic has to get to some balls so had to compensate even more with his legs.
It’s not even arguable lol. He was an absolute savage in 05 and was having 4 and 5 hour epics at 36 in 2022I'd say he held on for quite long actually. Nadal had very good, arguably even great longevity for your average ATG. He comes off quite good in that department compared to anyone else basically, he had a brutal playing style but he was also a physical specimen (who has some great athletes in his family) and adapted well to remain a contender late in his career (the Moya period).
It's just that Novak is an anomaly. He has basically a perfect build for tennis, is made of rubber and has fanatical devotion to mental, physical and nutritional preparation.
35 but ok. He turned 36 by RG. By the same token Djokovic reached Wimby final at 37 then.Well Nadal outlasted Meddy in 5 sets at AO at 36y, and took out Nole at FO same year, so its not like he was walking with crutches. Winning 2 slam 36y old isnt exactly heavy decline.
Yeah well the year he turned 36 . My point is still valid though.35 but ok. He turned 36 by RG. By the same token Djokovic reached Wimby final at 37 then.
Bestie just admit you love Rafa lol, its not that serious. You SHOULD love him35 but ok. He turned 36 by RG. By the same token Djokovic reached Wimby final at 37 then.
Win FO at 19y, abuse your body and win AO + FO at nearly 36. Id say he aged pretty well...Because Novak is amazing!
He’s taken such good care of himself that he can keep playing at this level.
While Nadal abused his body and now you see the end results
Tell the wheel chair thatWin FO at 19y, abuse your body and win AO + FO at nearly 36. Id say he aged pretty well...
Birth defects, same as Murray. Its that simple. 50% of males have extra bone growth in various parts of the body which if they are top level athletes reduces longevity.Was watching highlights of Nadal from around 2005 - 2009, the guy was literally chasing every single thing down, it was incredible. It was almost impossible to hit a winner against him, he would just retrieve every single damn ball.
Starting from around mid-2009, he had a notable decline in speed, but he was still very fast until around 2014, then it kind of fell off a cliff. He still had tremendous success after that of course, as he changed his game to become more aggressive to shorten the points, which was a testimony to his greatness.
Djokovic, on the other hand, started off physically weak with his breathing problems and stamina issues from 2007-2010, but then became superhuman in 2011. While he also lost a bit of speed and flexibility from around 2016 onwards, his decline was nowhere near as notable as Nadal’s, and even now at age 37 he can still defend ridiculously well and hasn’t really had to change his game that much.
Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles, being defensive and retrieving balls that hardly any other player would be able to get to. Both players had to have placed tremendous stress on their bodies over the years, yet one had a more notable decline physically than the other.
What would the reasons for this be?
Nadal set the slam record at 36 lol. What more did you expect him to do. He was eligible for the senior tour lol, His longevity is unmatched i think. 2005-2022 a slam winner. Federer 2003-2018 Djokovic 2008-2023. Sampras 1990-2002. Have i missed anyone?Nadal did not succeed AT ALL if you think he did this well.
Rally length increase to 4.9
Even his rally aggression which improved a bit is still below average nole rally aggression.
You can not turn a Corolla into a Ferrari by adding huge engine. The entire car need replacement.
Nadal did add some aggression but it was too late in the game for it to matter that much.
Don't forget that year he played Wimbledon with a watch battery taped to his chest. That was very, um, telling... to say the least.This was the wackiest story ever told by a tennis player. Until the water molecules, pyramids etc came up.
I agree. When Nadal came back in 2017 and won eight more slams you really cant question his longevity anymore. People (including me) thought he was done in 2015.Nadal set the slam record at 36 lol. What more did you expect him to do. He was eligible for the senior tour lol, His longevity is unmatched i think. 2005-2022 a slam winner. Federer 2003-2018 Djokovic 2008-2023. Sampras 1990-2002. Have i missed anyone?
If if i see him in a wheelchair during the next 10 years ill stand correctedTell the wheel chair that
Yes, but at the same time, typical rally on clay is way longer and more exhausting, ball is heavier... I don't think clay being easier on the knees makes up for the extra stress you put it in to get more spin and hit more balls.Clay is easier on the body than hardcourt.
I hope he can perform both sports without suffering any major injuries.Nadal won slams from 2005 to 2022, his body did good!
Now he will be fishing and playing golf all day long
Nadal's decline is expected. That he played at top till 36 years of age was way beyond expectations. When he came on tour, seeing his playing style which puts immense pressure on the legs, experts were of the opinion that he wont last till age 30. And he had several injuries also starting at young age itself.Was watching highlights of Nadal from around 2005 - 2009, the guy was literally chasing every single thing down, it was incredible. It was almost impossible to hit a winner against him, he would just retrieve every single damn ball.
Starting from around mid-2009, he had a notable decline in speed, but he was still very fast until around 2014, then it kind of fell off a cliff. He still had tremendous success after that of course, as he changed his game to become more aggressive to shorten the points, which was a testimony to his greatness.
Djokovic, on the other hand, started off physically weak with his breathing problems and stamina issues from 2007-2010, but then became superhuman in 2011. While he also lost a bit of speed and flexibility from around 2016 onwards, his decline was nowhere near as notable as Nadal’s, and even now at age 37 he can still defend ridiculously well and hasn’t really had to change his game that much.
Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles, being defensive and retrieving balls that hardly any other player would be able to get to. Both players had to have placed tremendous stress on their bodies over the years, yet one had a more notable decline physically than the other.
What would the reasons for this be?
It's a classic contrasting styles matchup. On fast courts the Ljubo BH tends to shine too, it's his legs that let him down usually.Some of those Ljubicic vs Nadal matches really hold up. Ljubicic got the better of Nadal sometimes but even when he lost to Nadal Rafa really brought out the best in Ljubicic’s big hitting and attacking game.