Why was Nadal’s physical decline so much more drastic than Djokovic?

SABRvolley

Rookie
Nadal did not succeed AT ALL if you think he did this well.

Rally length increase to 4.9

Even his rally aggression which improved a bit is still below average nole rally aggression.

You can not turn a Corolla into a Ferrari by adding huge engine. The entire car need replacement.

Nadal did add some aggression but it was too late in the game for it to matter that much.
You must also remember his serve improved a lot as well over the years, so even if his rally length did not change as much, he got a lot more free points on his serve than when he was younger.

Also, reducing the amount of HC tournaments he entered certainly helped his longevity too
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
2005 Nadal was just laughably fast and all over the court.
I just got done rewatching this fantastic match between Ljubicic and Nadal from Shanghai 2009. Ljubicic was holding his own and absolutely smacking the ball.

Seeing how well he was covering the court as a bigger man was phenomenal, but 3/4 of the way through the second set he was done. Blew out his groin. It’s just a reminder of what type of hell a big man has to put his body through to try and hang with Nadal in a very attacking match on fast hardcourt where both players are spreading the court. Nadal has donated his body to tennis but people forget how masterful he is at taking an opponents legs out.

Some of those Ljubicic vs Nadal matches really hold up. Ljubicic got the better of Nadal sometimes but even when he lost to Nadal Rafa really brought out the best in Ljubicic’s big hitting and attacking game.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I just got done rewatching this fantastic match between Ljubicic and Nadal from Shanghai 2009. Ljubicic was holding his own and absolutely smacking the ball.

Seeing how well he was covering the court as a bigger man was phenomenal, but 3/4 of the way through the second set he was done. Blew out his groin. It’s just a reminder of what type of hell a big man has to put his body through to try and hang with Nadal in a very attacking match on fast hardcourt where both players are spreading the court. Nadal has donated his body to tennis but people forget how masterful he is at taking an opponents legs out.

Some of those Ljubicic vs Nadal matches really hold up. Ljubicic got the better of Nadal sometimes but even when he lost to Nadal Rafa really brought out the best in Ljubicic’s big hitting and attacking game.
I miss the days when Nadal would tire everyone out :D
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Epicness takes a lot more energy :D

I'd say he held on for quite long actually. Nadal had very good, arguably even great longevity for your average ATG. He comes off quite good in that department compared to anyone else basically, he had a brutal playing style but he was also a physical specimen (who has some great athletes in his family) and adapted well to remain a contender late in his career (the Moya period).

It's just that Novak is an anomaly. He has basically a perfect build for tennis, is made of rubber and has fanatical devotion to mental, physical and nutritional preparation.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
I'd say he held on for quite long actually. Nadal had very good, arguably even great longevity for your average ATG. He comes off quite good in that department compared to anyone else basically, he had a brutal playing style but he was also a physical specimen (who has some great athletes in his family) and adapted well to remain a contender late in his career (the Moya period).

It's just that Novak is an anomaly. He has basically a perfect build for tennis, is made of rubber and has fanatical devotion to mental, physical and nutritional preparation.
Novak and Rog. Both have better longevity.

Rog is playing above 50 matches in age 35/36/37.

Nadal stopped at 35 itself. Age 36 how many matches he really played. 20? Maybe less.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Novak and Rog. Both have better longevity.

Rog is playing above 50 matches in age 35/36/37.

Nadal stopped at 35 itself. Age 36 how many matches he really played. 20? Maybe less.

Yeah Fed had great longevity too. I think he declined as an athlete faster than Djokodal but he had a great serve game (not just the serve as an isolated shot, but the service game) and had the ability to stay on the baseline and take the ball ridiculously early (even with a 1HBH), he was often half-volleying from the baseline basically.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah Fed had great longevity too. I think he declined as an athlete faster than Djokodal but he had a great serve game (not just the serve as an isolated shot, but the service game) and had the ability to stay on the baseline and take the ball ridiculously early (even with a 1HBH), he was often half-volleying from the baseline basically.
But Fed reached RG semis in 2019 with a competitive draw. He was 37 and 3 quarters. That required athleticism. I contest that Rafa was never the same athlete much worse than Fed at same age post 30.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
But Fed reached RG semis in 2019 with a competitive draw. He was 37 and 3 quarters. That required athleticism. I contest that Rafa was never the same athlete much worse than Fed at same age post 30.

In some ways clay is a young man's surface, in other ways it's not. You can actually use some smart netplay, angles and dropshots to mask the decline in physicality.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
In some ways clay is a young man's surface, in other ways it's not. You can actually use some smart netplay, angles and dropshots to mask the decline in physicality.
Fine. Then Fed reached AO semis in 2020. That would be like Nadal reaching AO semis in 2025. Next year
Do you see how far above Fed's athleticism was to Nadal?
 

Golden-24

New User
Unless Djokovic improves his level next year it's looking like his span as a serious slam contender will be no longer than either of Fedals (roughly about 16-17 years, Ned actually wins this with 17 flat). So these longevity arguments seem kind of silly to me. Sure, he hasn't yet suffered the terminal injuries Fedal did (although Federer in 2020 was still 15 months older than Djokovic now) but he hasn't been a serious slam contender in over a year.

Djokovic has been relatively more injury free than Nadal, and smarter with his scheduling than Federer though.

He won the Olympics Games at 37. On his worst surface and without dropping a set. That alone makes his longevity more impressive than Fedal's. They were younger when they won their last big title. He is also the oldest French Open winner, oldest US Open winner and oldest ATP Final winner.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
He won the Olympics Games at 37. On his worst surface and without dropping a set. That alone makes his longevity more impressive than Fedal's. They were younger when they won their last big title. He is also the oldest French Open winner, oldest US Open winner and oldest ATP Final winner.
Oldest world number 1

4 years above Nadal's longevity.
 

stules

Rookie
I remember watching Nadal during that peak time, and his ability to chase down every ball was mind-blowing—like he had a sixth sense on the court! I think his style of play, being so physically demanding, really took a toll on him over the years. Djokovic’s journey is pretty wild too; seeing him go from struggling with stamina to dominating the sport was something else. It seems like his focus on fitness and recovery really paid off, allowing him to keep up his game longer. It's interesting to think about how their different approaches to training and managing injuries have shaped their careers.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Why is Nadal only being compared to Djokovic for longevity?

Why is he not compared to others who came on the tour after him, and left before him?

Nadals longevity is insane, with the way he played. Theres no reason to only compare him to superhuman Djokovic.

Theres not many who can compare with him.
 

Incognito

Legend
He wasn't. He moved best of all in 2005, and then 2006 to early 2009. Even in the 2009 clay season, while Nadal was winning Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome, you can see that he isn't moving as well as he did at that year's Australian Open.

There was a further decline in Nadal's mobility after the 2014 Australian Open final disaster. Nadal then spent 2015-2016 trying to play the way he did when he was 20, while being around 10 years older. Toni's instinct in a crisis was always to double down on what worked before rather than try a new approach. That's where Moya comes in from 2017 and some changes are made to Nadal's approach, i.e. trying to shorten points, beef up the serve, save movement for when it's really needed.

Nadal in 2005 moved with wild abandon, and 2006 to early 2009 wasn't far behind.
After winning AO in 2009, he went to Rotterdam to play a 250 which exacerbated his knee problems to a degree that ruined the rest of 2009 IMO.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Why is Nadal only being compared to Djokovic for longevity?

Why is he not compared to others who came on the tour after him, and left before him?

Nadals longevity is insane, with the way he played. Theres no reason to only compare him to superhuman Djokovic.

Theres not many who can compare with him.
I would say only 3/4 guys in open era are even in his league in terms of longevity.
 

Jonesy

Legend
He won the Olympics Games at 37. On his worst surface and without dropping a set. That alone makes his longevity more impressive than Fedal's. They were younger when they won their last big title. He is also the oldest French Open winner, oldest US Open winner and oldest ATP Final winner.
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Daniel Andrade

Hall of Fame
Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles,
I don't think Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles. Both being defensively minded generally does not make them similar IMO. To me that sounds like comparing Isner to Federer and calling them similar.
The devil is in the details, and in this case while both Djokovic and Nadal chased down balls, Nadal did it for much more time, more explosively and didn't have the flexibility Djokovic has to get to some balls so had to compensate even more with his legs.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think Nadal and Djokovic have similar playing styles. Both being defensively minded generally does not make them similar IMO. To me that sounds like comparing Isner to Federer and calling them similar.
The devil is in the details, and in this case while both Djokovic and Nadal chased down balls, Nadal did it for much more time, more explosively and didn't have the flexibility Djokovic has to get to some balls so had to compensate even more with his legs.
You are very right.

Nadal likes to stay back and play with his god given strength like an animal. Similar to Thiem/Wawrinka and guys of that build. He would run around his backhand far far more than Djokovic. Plus he is much more percentage player than Nole.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I'd say he held on for quite long actually. Nadal had very good, arguably even great longevity for your average ATG. He comes off quite good in that department compared to anyone else basically, he had a brutal playing style but he was also a physical specimen (who has some great athletes in his family) and adapted well to remain a contender late in his career (the Moya period).

It's just that Novak is an anomaly. He has basically a perfect build for tennis, is made of rubber and has fanatical devotion to mental, physical and nutritional preparation.
It’s not even arguable lol. He was an absolute savage in 05 and was having 4 and 5 hour epics at 36 in 2022
 

Jonas78

Legend
Well Nadal outlasted Meddy in 5 sets at AO at 36y, and took out Nole at FO same year, so its not like he was walking with crutches. Winning 2 slams 36y old isnt exactly heavy decline.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Well Nadal outlasted Meddy in 5 sets at AO at 36y, and took out Nole at FO same year, so its not like he was walking with crutches. Winning 2 slam 36y old isnt exactly heavy decline.
35 but ok. He turned 36 by RG. By the same token Djokovic reached Wimby final at 37 then.
 

Bambooman

Hall of Fame
The way that Djokovic diagnosed and resolved his gluten and stamina issues my be bogus but that doesn't mean they weren't real and resolved in other ways. He stopped eating gluten and worked harder on developing stamina with exercise.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Because Novak is amazing!

He’s taken such good care of himself that he can keep playing at this level.

While Nadal abused his body and now you see the end results
 

BumElbow

Professional
Djokovic is famous for stretching all the time which gives him excellent flexibility and makes him more resistant to injury. Also, Djokovic takes his diet very seriously and eats healthfully which also helps him physically. He is amazing because he has achieved great things despite having celiac disease.
 

messiahrobins

Hall of Fame
Was watching highlights of Nadal from around 2005 - 2009, the guy was literally chasing every single thing down, it was incredible. It was almost impossible to hit a winner against him, he would just retrieve every single damn ball.

Starting from around mid-2009, he had a notable decline in speed, but he was still very fast until around 2014, then it kind of fell off a cliff. He still had tremendous success after that of course, as he changed his game to become more aggressive to shorten the points, which was a testimony to his greatness.

Djokovic, on the other hand, started off physically weak with his breathing problems and stamina issues from 2007-2010, but then became superhuman in 2011. While he also lost a bit of speed and flexibility from around 2016 onwards, his decline was nowhere near as notable as Nadal’s, and even now at age 37 he can still defend ridiculously well and hasn’t really had to change his game that much.

Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles, being defensive and retrieving balls that hardly any other player would be able to get to. Both players had to have placed tremendous stress on their bodies over the years, yet one had a more notable decline physically than the other.

What would the reasons for this be?
Birth defects, same as Murray. Its that simple. 50% of males have extra bone growth in various parts of the body which if they are top level athletes reduces longevity.
 

messiahrobins

Hall of Fame
Nadal did not succeed AT ALL if you think he did this well.

Rally length increase to 4.9

Even his rally aggression which improved a bit is still below average nole rally aggression.

You can not turn a Corolla into a Ferrari by adding huge engine. The entire car need replacement.

Nadal did add some aggression but it was too late in the game for it to matter that much.
Nadal set the slam record at 36 lol. What more did you expect him to do. He was eligible for the senior tour lol, His longevity is unmatched i think. 2005-2022 a slam winner. Federer 2003-2018 Djokovic 2008-2023. Sampras 1990-2002. Have i missed anyone?
 

Fabresque

Legend
For his standards Nadal lasted an extremely long time, he wasn’t built to play much into his 30’s but kept it up, very explosive player on the court.

Djokovic to his credit took better care of his body than anyone else, plus he was built to play for a while. He can still maintain a top 5 level now.

The trade off is that while Djokovic may last a bit longer, Nadal had a head start as he is the greatest teenage player ever which gave him a solid 5 years I’d say of an advantage.
 

Jonas78

Legend
Nadal set the slam record at 36 lol. What more did you expect him to do. He was eligible for the senior tour lol, His longevity is unmatched i think. 2005-2022 a slam winner. Federer 2003-2018 Djokovic 2008-2023. Sampras 1990-2002. Have i missed anyone?
I agree. When Nadal came back in 2017 and won eight more slams you really cant question his longevity anymore. People (including me) thought he was done in 2015.
 

ppma

Professional
Clay is easier on the body than hardcourt.
Yes, but at the same time, typical rally on clay is way longer and more exhausting, ball is heavier... I don't think clay being easier on the knees makes up for the extra stress you put it in to get more spin and hit more balls.
 

Genie Of the Bank

Hall of Fame
Simple, Nadal pushed himself over his physical capabilities . Djokovic on the other hand did the opposite with his diet, flexibility exercise and rest. Both of Novak major injuries came from bad court maintenance (US Open 2015 slippery rain court, RG 2024 bad state of the clay).


 

roysid

Legend
Was watching highlights of Nadal from around 2005 - 2009, the guy was literally chasing every single thing down, it was incredible. It was almost impossible to hit a winner against him, he would just retrieve every single damn ball.

Starting from around mid-2009, he had a notable decline in speed, but he was still very fast until around 2014, then it kind of fell off a cliff. He still had tremendous success after that of course, as he changed his game to become more aggressive to shorten the points, which was a testimony to his greatness.

Djokovic, on the other hand, started off physically weak with his breathing problems and stamina issues from 2007-2010, but then became superhuman in 2011. While he also lost a bit of speed and flexibility from around 2016 onwards, his decline was nowhere near as notable as Nadal’s, and even now at age 37 he can still defend ridiculously well and hasn’t really had to change his game that much.

Both Djokovic and Nadal have similar playing styles, being defensive and retrieving balls that hardly any other player would be able to get to. Both players had to have placed tremendous stress on their bodies over the years, yet one had a more notable decline physically than the other.

What would the reasons for this be?
Nadal's decline is expected. That he played at top till 36 years of age was way beyond expectations. When he came on tour, seeing his playing style which puts immense pressure on the legs, experts were of the opinion that he wont last till age 30. And he had several injuries also starting at young age itself.

Djokovic developed a playing style that was not harmful. He had breathing problems at the start but he overcome that by diet etc starting from 2011. Plus his body has less injuries and also can play at very high level even at 37. HIs discipline and mental ability is unprecedented. And having all shots in the book helped.

Honorable mention: Roger. His body also held long and had a great run from 2017-19 after the surgery. But gone after second surgery
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Some of those Ljubicic vs Nadal matches really hold up. Ljubicic got the better of Nadal sometimes but even when he lost to Nadal Rafa really brought out the best in Ljubicic’s big hitting and attacking game.
It's a classic contrasting styles matchup. On fast courts the Ljubo BH tends to shine too, it's his legs that let him down usually.

Thumbs up for referencing a very underrated rivalry. Of course Madrid 2005 is still remembered today, but all their non-clay matches were competitive and fun to watch.
 
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