Why was Sinner allowed to leave the court for a 15 min MTO in the middle of the third set?

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Mostly agree, but it needs to be changed slightly to once only in a match, for either a 5 or 10 minute hard limit, and only to be taken prior to your own serve. This should not be used as a momentum swing to put your opponent at a distinct disadvantage
I’m in favour of the approach that @insideguy mentioned. Remove the incentive for MTOs to be used tactically by creating a penalty for having to invoke them.

I don’t like the idea of limiting a set number of MTOs because it doesnt remove the incentive for people to use them tactically, it only limits the amount of times they can use them tactically.

The only thing they really need to be careful about with @insideguy concept is what the penalty is for invoking a MTO.

Id hate to see a situation where a player tries to hobble through an injury and aggravates the injury further because they are scared of being penalised a game by calling for an MTO.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I've never had tremors even playing in 100+ on hard courts

I've been so out of breath that I had to sit down and get out of the sun. But tremors....only seen two pros do that, and they happen to have employed a revolving door of the same chemists and physios

Of course I'm not a pro but this isn't common. And you would think that an aging rec player would cope even less well with conditions like that

This is more than just them pushing hard in the heat
Fair. It’s pretty crazy seeing these guys start to vibrate like a jitterbug. It’s humanity, but not as we know it lol. Superhumans……

I saw a guy do it in a pennant match one day and asked him if he was okay. He had an essential tremor and had run out of betablockers lol. That’s the other end of the athletic spectrum :-D
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Fair. It’s pretty crazy seeing these guys start to vibrate like a jitterbug. It’s humanity, but not as we know it lol. Superhumans……

I saw a guy do it in a pennant match one day and asked him if he was okay. He had an essential tremor and had run out of betablockers lol. That’s the other end of the athletic spectrum :-D

They're superhuman bc they are on something that's making them jittery sir

At the very least some kind of stimulant. Epinephrine, caffeine pills, maybe adderrall.

I'm also thinking Tiafoe's puking was probably the result of taking a diuretic. For what purpose....to get something out of your system of course
 

Candide

Hall of Fame
Plying in the Melbourne summer is no joke. I've gotten the shakes a couple of time plying in the mid 30s. The combination of stress, fatigue and temperature is brutal. One time I had a stupid fancy glass Voss water bottle and my hand was shaking so much I managed to take a small chip out of my front tooth!
1lqzmlwot7661.jpg
 

RSJfan

Hall of Fame
Why is he allowed to use Clostebol with no repercussions?
Very false. Carrot was and continues to be subjected to nonsensical TTW posts deriding him based on fantastical takes on his case. As well as WADA’s attempt to polish its tarnished reputation by harassing Carrot (and tennis) with a dubious appeal. Had it not been for these continuing distractions I expect he would have beaten Rune in straights rather than four.
 

Alcawrath

Professional
Very false. Carrot was and continues to be subjected to nonsensical TTW posts deriding him. As well as WADA’s attempt to polish its tarnished reputation by harassing Carrot (and tennis) with a dubious appeal.
Nonsense would be pretending he didn't test positive for a banned substance, but he factually did. People can debate the context and impact of his failed drug test, but to pretend it didn't happen or condemn people for pointing out that he failed a drug test is nonsensical.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Appeals are quite normal and, in this case, necessary to restore integrity to the doping control system.

Very false. Carrot was and continues to be subjected to nonsensical TTW posts deriding him based on fantastical takes on his case. As well as WADA’s attempt to polish its tarnished reputation by harassing Carrot (and tennis) with a dubious appeal. Had it not been for these continuing distractions I expect he would have beaten Rune in straights rather than four.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Very false. Carrot was and continues to be subjected to nonsensical TTW posts deriding him based on fantastical takes on his case. As well as WADA’s attempt to polish its tarnished reputation by harassing Carrot (and tennis) with a dubious appeal. Had it not been for these continuing distractions I expect he would have beaten Rune in straights rather than four.
Probably if sinner runs someone over with car, you will say this is because of distractions with wada appeal.

It has gone to that level now.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
They're superhuman bc they are on something that's making them jittery sir

At the very least some kind of stimulant. Epinephrine, caffeine pills, maybe adderrall.

I'm also thinking Tiafoe's puking was probably the result of taking a diuretic. For what purpose....to get something out of your system of course
Adderall is a really nasty one to be messing around with. Very serious longterm impacts from that upon withdrawal and during use and far worse for someone using it not as it was intended. I think there are probably many players using it but obviously they have TUE.

Some of the focus-based PEDs and stimulants are really scary. Definitely a reason why we still need a banned list to some extent.

I think the closest a pro player is getting to caffeine in a pill is the fact that they are all coffee snobs lol. AO is a good place to be a coffee snob :-D Too easy for them to get busted for caffeine pills and better options around that aren’t inhibitors if they want some extra assistance in that department :cool:
 

RSJfan

Hall of Fame
Nonsense would be pretending he didn't test positive for a banned substance, but he factually did. People can debate the context and impact of his failed drug test, but to pretend it didn't happen or condemn people for pointing out that he failed a drug test is nonsensical.

That’s true. And your post is a good example of the previously referred to nonsensical posts. Or an intentional red hering. :sneaky:
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
In big table tennis tournaments, in matches on the scale of a tennis major, how long would an “epic” table tennis match go for? Is the duration similar to a mens singles match that goes to a fifth set where it could go 3-6 hours?
No, not close. Under the old rules, the longest a match could be was five games to 21. Even with some deuce games in the mix (e.g., 24-22), the whole match might top out at about an hour to 1:15.

Under the current rules, with a max of seven games to 11, it's harder to approach an hour in total, but it's possible, if the points are long and many games go to multiple deuces. But a straight games match (4-0) could be less than 30 min.

As a teenager, I once played about 15 best of 3 matches (games to 21) in one day at a tournament.
 

Alcawrath

Professional
That’s true. And your post is a good example of the previously referred to nonsensical posts. Or an intentional red hering. :sneaky:
Sinner's camp is at fault for his failed drug test, not internet posters or WADA. Anything happening to him was of his making or his camp's. He's not a victim, and with zero suspension or repercussion, he's simply going to face suspicion, criticism, etc. It's not nonsense, it's a fairly normal reaction to hearing the #1 player in any sport failed a drug test and is still allowed to play...
 

RSJfan

Hall of Fame
Sinner's camp is at fault for his failed drug test, not internet posters or WADA. Anything happening to him was of his making or his camp's. He's not a victim, and with zero suspension or repercussion, he's simply going to face suspicion, criticism, etc. It's not nonsense, it's a fairly normal reaction to hearing the #1 player in any sport failed a drug test and is still allowed to play...

Not doing another TADP 101 lecture. Sorry. :confused:

It’s Chainz time! :D

giphy.gif
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
No, not close. Under the old rules, the longest a match could be was five games to 21. Even with some deuce games in the mix (e.g., 24-22), the whole match might top out at about an hour to 1:15.

Under the current rules, with a max of seven games to 11, it's harder to approach an hour in total, but it's possible, if the points are long and many games go to multiple deuces. But a straight games match (4-0) could be less than 30 min.

As a teenager, I once played about 15 best of 3 matches (games to 21) in one day at a tournament.
Wow! So interesting to see how much a difference there is between the two sports.

Those new scoring rules changes seem like a pretty big change to the structure of matches. Was there much controversy or resistance to the changes?
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
[...] Imo it should only occur when it's certain that the player is hurt (e.g. when Raducanu bled in the USO final); otherwise, you want MTO = you get default. [...]
Dude, wake up! That bleeding was fake! She was abusing the rules taking an unfair advantage!!
And of course, in any case, if you're feeling sick / you're hurt / etc. you are still supposed to suffer/die on court rather than taking the chance of being checked by a doctor.
(end of sarcastic part)
What the hell are you all guys complaining about?? Really, can you explain that to me? If you're doubting that Sinner was sick, hell, you're really a bunch of conspiracy theorists then, sorry. And do you think that the prolonged MTO was decided by Sinner in order to take advantage of it? I guess it was the doctors who decided about the time required for the treatment, but you guys sure know better right?
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
Wow! So interesting to see how much a difference there is between the two sports.

Those new scoring rules changes seem like a pretty big change to the structure of matches. Was there much controversy or resistance to the changes?
There was a lot of study and discussion before the scoring change was implemented around 2001. I don't recall if serious opposition existed at the professional level at the time because I wasn't playing close attention to such issues. Most amateur players were more worried about making the adjustments themselves, I think. Another big change occurred at the same time: increasing the ball size from 38mm to 40mm. The idea behind the changes was to slow down the game a little and make it more TV-friendly. I suppose the results have been mixed in that regard. Personally, I think the games to 21 had greater depth and structure, thus increasing the drama, but the games to 11 provide more quick fixes of excitement that are easier to sell. In some professional TT leagues now (not the World Championships or Olympics), the matches are best-of-five, but only the first four games are played to 11. The fifth game, if necessary, is played to 6, sudden death (no deuce at 5-all).
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
During the Paul-Zverev match, James Blake said that the doctor who treated Sinner during his match yesterday explained to Blake that the reason Sinner had to be taken off-court for the examination was that the doctor could not hear well enough in the noisy stadium to take Sinner's vital signs accurately. He therefore had to move his patient to a quiet place to conduct the physical exam.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
I’m in favour of the approach that @insideguy mentioned. Remove the incentive for MTOs to be used tactically by creating a penalty for having to invoke them.

I don’t like the idea of limiting a set number of MTOs because it doesnt remove the incentive for people to use them tactically, it only limits the amount of times they can use them tactically.

The only thing they really need to be careful about with @insideguy concept is what the penalty is for invoking a MTO.

Id hate to see a situation where a player tries to hobble through an injury and aggravates the injury further because they are scared of being penalised a game by calling for an MTO.
Thats a valid concern Subway. But I mean being smart or not smart is also part of the sport is it not? For gods sake they have court side coaching now. And it's a game not a match. If you cant feel your leg well maybe ya ought to take a time out.

The problem is these dudes are using it cause they have an upset stomach or just want to rest. Sorry.

Oh and thanks for the shout out.
 

Dunlop300g

Rookie
Pro players these days cannot even get through one set without taking a MTO; and on the other player's serve? It pathetic. MTO's ? Play is supposed to be continuous or you retire; that's "old school" tennis! So he takes an MTO, they shoot him full of pain killers and he's out there running like a gazelle again until it starts to wear off in the third set but it's just enough to get him over the line this time. It's sad.
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
Thats a valid concern Subway. But I mean being smart or not smart is also part of the sport is it not? For gods sake they have court side coaching now. And it's a game not a match. If you cant feel your leg well maybe ya ought to take a time out.

The problem is these dudes are using it cause they have an upset stomach or just want to rest. Sorry.
Let me understand, if I have an upset stomach that's troubling me, am I not supposed to get it fixed by a doctor so that I can perform at my usual level? Should I suffer on court?
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
There was a lot of study and discussion before the scoring change was implemented around 2001. I don't recall if serious opposition existed at the professional level at the time because I wasn't playing close attention to such issues. Most amateur players were more worried about making the adjustments themselves, I think. Another big change occurred at the same time: increasing the ball size from 38mm to 40mm. The idea behind the changes was to slow down the game a little and make it more TV-friendly. I suppose the results have been mixed in that regard. Personally, I think the games to 21 had greater depth and structure, thus increasing the drama, but the games to 11 provide more quick fixes of excitement that are easier to sell. In some professional TT leagues now (not the World Championships or Olympics), the matches are best-of-five, but only the first four games are played to 11. The fifth game, if necessary, is played to 6, sudden death (no deuce at 5-all).
Volleyball is another sport that has had huge rule changes over the last two decades. And I dont think there has been a huge backlash.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Let me understand, if I have an upset stomach that's troubling me, am I not supposed to get it fixed by a doctor so that I can perform at my usual level? Should I suffer on court?
Ummm Yea dude. If your a golfer or are running a marathon you dont get to leave your even cause you have an upset stomach. LOL. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand? Like part of being an athlete is you have to be able to stand up to the other team or player and have the physical ability to do it.

What dont you get about this? Does a Bi athlete get to go take a crap in the middle of a race and start in the position they were in? For some reason I swear tennis people have like blocks in their head.

For gods sake dude. A tri athlete is suffering for hours. Oh my should they have to suffer for a cramp oh no they should be able to stop and get massages. LOL

Some of you guys sound like British gentry from 1910 or something lol

I say dear boy should our men and ladies have to suffer and upset stomach out there on the tennis rectangle?
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
Ummm Yea dude. If your a golfer or are running a marathon you dont get to leave your even cause you have an upset stomach. LOL. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand? Like part of being an athlete is you have to be able to stand up to the other team or player and have the physical ability to do it.

What dont you get about this? Does a Bi athlete get to go take a crap in the middle of a race and start in the position they were in? For some reason I swear tennis people have like blocks in their head.
You're comparing sports where there's a one-shot effort, so to speak, like running, with sports like tennis where breaks are a natural part of the game. And being sick doesn't have anything to do with your physical prowess.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
You're comparing sports where there's a one-shot effort, so to speak, like running, with sports like tennis where breaks are a natural part of the game. And being sick doesn't have anything to do with your physical prowess.
Dude. Again. What are you talking about? If you're injured in soccer do you get a medical time out and they stop the game? No you leave the field, and your team is down a man. Thats if you get an upset stomach or your blow out your knee. Now you can come back in but you have to leave the field which puts your team at a disadvantage. If your sick in baseball and you leave the field you cant come back.

If your sick in auto racing and you have to leave no one stops the race for you.
If your sick in basketball you have to come out of the game
If you have an upset stomach in boxing or MMA you know who cares? No one.

Give me one sport where you can just call MTOS with no consequences? One? Give me one? What is that? Guys get beaned with freaking baseballs at 102 mph and they have less time to see a medical professional than a dude in tennis with an upset stomach. I mean no wonder so many people think tennis players are a bunch of pansies.
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
...and it's also about the logistics of the game. For example, MTOs in golf would definitely a thing of it were a 1 vs. 1 competition.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
...and it's also about the logistics of the game. For example, MTOs in golf would definitely a thing of it were a 1 vs. 1 competition.
What 1 on 1 competition has MTOs where you get to take 15 minutes breaks and have doctors evaluate you and you dont suffer any penalties? Like what sport? Give me one.
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
Dude. Again. What are you talking about? If you're injured in soccer do you get a medical time out and they stop the game? No you leave the field, and your team is down a man. Thats if you get an upset stomach or your blow out your knee. Now you can come back in but you have to leave the field which puts your team at a disadvantage. If your sick in baseball and you leave the field you cant come back.

If your sick in auto racing and you have to leave no one stops the race for you.
If your sick in basketball you have to come out of the game
If you have an upset stomach in boxing or MMA you know who cares? No one.

Give me one sport where you can just call MTOS with no consequences? One? Give me one? What is that? Guys get beaned with freaking baseballs at 102 mph and they have less time to see a medical professional than a dude in tennis with an upset stomach. I mean no wonder so many people think tennis players are a bunch of pansies.
Ok, I get your point. Let's get rid of MTOs in tennis then. But I think it would detract from the sport...
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
Ok, I get your point. Let's get rid of MTOs in tennis then. But I think it would detract from the sport...
I didnt say get rid of them. I said if you take one you lose a service game. Simple. If your hurt and you feel you can get some treatment that will help then ok. But you forfeit a game.

I am more than willing to compromise. That is a compromise. I could say no MTOs. Im not. Im saying if you do it then there should be some penalty.
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
There was a lot of study and discussion before the scoring change was implemented around 2001. I don't recall if serious opposition existed at the professional level at the time because I wasn't playing close attention to such issues. Most amateur players were more worried about making the adjustments themselves, I think. Another big change occurred at the same time: increasing the ball size from 38mm to 40mm. The idea behind the changes was to slow down the game a little and make it more TV-friendly. I suppose the results have been mixed in that regard. Personally, I think the games to 21 had greater depth and structure, thus increasing the drama, but the games to 11 provide more quick fixes of excitement that are easier to sell. In some professional TT leagues now (not the World Championships or Olympics), the matches are best-of-five, but only the first four games are played to 11. The fifth game, if necessary, is played to 6, sudden death (no deuce at 5-all).
That’s so interesting. Imagine trying to get changes done in tennis like that! Particuoarly changing the ball, size, wow.

Does TT have a single unified governing body controlling how the sport is run globally? Or is it messy like it is in tennis with ATP / ITF / WTA / Grand Slam Committee etc etc?
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Thats a valid concern Subway. But I mean being smart or not smart is also part of the sport is it not? For gods sake they have court side coaching now. And it's a game not a match. If you cant feel your leg well maybe ya ought to take a time out.

The problem is these dudes are using it cause they have an upset stomach or just want to rest. Sorry.

Oh and thanks for the shout out.
I think youre right. The positives of your suggestion far outweigh the negatives, and it’s unlikely that someone seriously injured is going to jeopardize their season for the sake of a game, so if they need it they will most likely will just take the timeout.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
That’s so interesting. Imagine trying to get changes done in tennis like that! Particuoarly changing the ball, size, wow.

Does TT have a single unified governing body controlling how the sport is run globally? Or is it messy like it is in tennis with ATP / ITF / WTA / Grand Slam Committee etc etc?
Yea I had no idea about those changes either. It's great to get this input from people who follow some of these other sports. I know for a fact Volleyball got rid of their let. And it use to be you could only get points on your serve. Which made games and matches go on forever. But I honestly dont think there was a huge backlash to the changes in volleyball at all. Maybe some purist but I mean no one wanted to watch 5 set volleyball matches last 4 freaking hours.
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
If your sick in auto racing and you have to leave no one stops the race for you.
If your sick in basketball you have to come out of the game
If you have an upset stomach in boxing or MMA you know who cares? No one.

Give me one sport where you can just call MTOS with no consequences? One? Give me one? What is that? Guys get beaned with freaking baseballs at 102 mph and they have less time to see a medical professional than a dude in tennis with an upset stomach. I mean no wonder so many people think tennis players are a bunch of pansies.
The reality that you and some others in this thread are overlooking is that if a tennis player cannot continue due to some injury or ailment, there will be no match. Tennis is not a team sport! People here often argue as though a professional tennis match is nothing more than an algorithm for determining, as rigorously as possible, which of two athletes is the more precise and more durable shotmaking machine. This is reductionist and naive. A pro tennis match, especially at a slam, is primarily an entertainment product. The interest of the fans, both at the event and on TV, in having a decent match to watch -- which is what they have paid for -- outweighs the interest of the players in having a perfectly structured competition in which no quarter is asked or given. Sometimes it may not seem perfectly "fair" to give a player a break to enable him/her to continue to play, but that's tough. If uncompromising demands on physical fitness are your personal ideal of competition, fine, but tennis as it is played today cannot survive without some compromises.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
The reality that you and some others in this thread are overlooking is that if a tennis player cannot continue due to some injury or ailment, there will be no match. Tennis is not a team sport! People here often argue as though a professional tennis match is nothing more than an algorithm for determining, as rigorously as possible, which of two athletes is the more precise and more durable shotmaking machine. This is reductionist and naive. A pro tennis match, especially at a slam, is primarily an entertainment product. The interest of the fans, both at the event and on TV, in having a decent match to watch -- which is what they have paid for -- outweighs the interest of the players in having a perfectly structured competition in which no quarter is asked or given. Sometimes it may not seem perfectly "fair" to give a player a break to enable him/her to continue to play, but that's tough. If uncompromising demands on physical fitness are your personal ideal of competition, fine, but tennis as it is played today cannot survive without some compromises.
Ok? First off im not asking them to call off the match. Im asking for consequences if you take an MTO. Period. Not canceling the match. This is why so many debates get derailed.. Because people take logic leaps to the cancel the match! Who said cancel the match. No one said cancel the match. You take an MTO you give up a game.

This aint complicated. I know people hate change. But not one poster has said cancel the match over an MTO. No one said that at all.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Appeals are quite normal and, in this case, necessary to restore integrity to the doping control system.

The doping system has no integrity. On the one hand the system is one of strict liability. Zero tolerance.

On the other hand the Tribunal relies on Iga's personal unopened bottles of melatonin to make a determination because the Tribunal could not track down the allegedly tainted manufacturing batch.

The Iga case should have appealed by WADA. There is more smoke in the Iga case than in the Sinner case.

The ITIA said it was unable to contact the Polish manufacturer of the melatonin, despite attempting to do so by telephone and email, in order to obtain from themselves a container of the product from the same batch. The ITIA said that was not possible due to the product’s expiry date and the non-response of the manufacturer.
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
Does TT have a single unified governing body controlling how the sport is run globally?
Yes, the ITTF. National table tennis associations in each country, such as USATT, answer to this entity. The ITTF makes the rules, handles the international player rankings, and runs the World Championships. Obviously, it does not run the Olympics, but as is the case with most sports, the Olympics Games use the rules set by the individual sports themselves. Various pro leagues and tournaments held around the world are ITTF-sanctioned. The equipment used (rackets, balls, tables) has to be ITTF-approved as well. I just took my racket out of its case, and the rubber sheets have both the JTTAA (because the manufacturer, Butterfly, is a Japanese company) and the ITTF logos on them.

About 5-6 years ago, the ITTF set up a subsidiary called World Table Tennis to run commercial tournaments and bring more money into the sport. I guess the ITTF thought of itself as more of a governing body than a tour-promoting organization. WTT recently created some rules for mandatory player participation that were so demanding that a few top Chinese players, including the 2024 Olympic champ, decided to retire from international competition. (Think Borg in 1982 protesting the rules.) Needless to say, this has created a scandal that is still being addressed.

I recall that within the last 15 years or so, there was an effort to create a small rival sport that styled itself as "ping pong" rather than table tennis. The idea was that players would be required to use only old-fashioned sandpaper bats rather than modern sponge rubber-covered rackets. The WCPP (World Championship of Ping Pong) folks did stage some events, but I don't know whether that group still exists. They used the old 21-point scoring system, indicating that they weren't affiliated with the ITTF. Sandpaper is not an ITTF-legal playing surface either.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The ITIA is a joke, but CAS will restore some integrity.

The doping system has no integrity. On the one hand the system is one of strict liability. Zero tolerance.

On the other hand the Tribunal relies on Iga's personal unopened bottles of melatonin to make a determination because the Tribunal could not track down the allegedly tainted manufacturing batch.

The Iga case should have appealed by WADA. There is more smoke in the Iga case than in the Sinner case.

The ITIA said it was unable to contact the Polish manufacturer of the melatonin, despite attempting to do so by telephone and email, in order to obtain from themselves a container of the product from the same batch. The ITIA said that was not possible due to the product’s expiry date and the non-response of the manufacturer.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
The ITIA is a joke, but CAS will restore some integrity.
CAS can only restore integrity if WADA chooses to appeal ITIA ruling to CAS.

The WADA is the joke. It appealed the Sinner case to CAS but it did not appeal the Iga case. WADA is very happy to rely on Iga's personal bottles of "contaminated" melatonin. WADA should have also appealed the Iga case to CAS.
 
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JMR

Hall of Fame
Ok? First off im not asking them to call off the match. Im asking for consequences if you take an MTO. Period. Not canceling the match. This is why so many debates get derailed.. Because people take logic leaps to the cancel the match! Who said cancel the match. No one said cancel the match. You take an MTO you give up a game.
The concern is not that matches will be formally "canceled"; it's that the relative unavailability of an MTO, or the penalty associated with an MTO, will determine the outcome of the match and/or possibly help end it prematurely.

For example, what if the game you "give up" is at 5-6 in the third set, with sets at 1-all? Your choice at that point is to take an MTO, and lose the game and the set (and probably the match), or to play when you're hurt or feeling sick, and thus probably lose the game and the set (and probably the match). Either way, you're probably screwed. The system is sending a pretty strong "you might as well just retire" message in this scenario.

Also, I don't think it's true that the equivalents of MTOs always come with formal negative consequences in other sports. In every major American team sport, if a player is seriously injured on the field, the game simply stops for as long as it takes to attend to that player, whether that be three minutes or 15 minutes. The player's team is not penalized for the delay. And for less serious injuries or other problems, the player simply leaves the game and is replaced by someone else. In U.S. football, basketball, and ice hockey, the injured player can return later if fit. In baseball, the player is out for good, but the team still receives no penalty just because one of its players got hurt. But in tennis, since no replacement can be inserted, obviously the rules have to be more lenient with respect to delays while treating the player, since there's no other way to continue the match.
 

insideguy

G.O.A.T.
The concern is not that matches will be formally "canceled"; it's that the relative unavailability of an MTO, or the penalty associated with an MTO, will determine the outcome of the match and/or possibly help end it prematurely.

For example, what if the game you "give up" is at 5-6 in the third set, with sets at 1-all? Your choice at that point is to take an MTO, and lose the game and the set (and probably the match), or to play when you're hurt or feeling sick, and thus probably lose the game and the set (and probably the match). Either way, you're probably screwed. The system is sending a pretty strong "you might as well just retire" message in this scenario.

Also, I don't think it's true that the equivalents of MTOs always come with formal negative consequences in other sports. In every major American team sport, if a player is seriously injured on the field, the game simply stops for as long as it takes to attend to that player, whether that be three minutes or 15 minutes. The player's team is not penalized for the delay. And for less serious injuries or other problems, the player simply leaves the game and is replaced by someone else. In U.S. football, basketball, and ice hockey, the injured player can return later if fit. In baseball, the player is out for good, but the team still receives no penalty just because one of its players got hurt. But in tennis, since no replacement can be inserted, obviously the rules have to be more lenient with respect to delays while treating the player, since there's no other way to continue the match.
Ok frankly this is bizarre to me. If a quarterback or a an MMA player gets hurt during a game or match it is what it is man.

Last I checked getting hurt was part of sports. If you're sick or hurt then ok. But it's not some be all end all. Otherwise even tennis would be like omg his stomach is hurting, let's give him till tomorrow. Frankly the fact that you dont see how absurd this premise is confuses me.

You cant compare every sport one on one. They are all different.

What kills me is players walk off court for whatever after a set. Borg and Mac didnt walk off the freaking court after 5 sets!

And you can say well Insideguy its just not as physical then lol. Omg Mac didnt have an upsets stomach? Borg didnt have a shoulder ache?

This is so freaking stupid it's incredible you cant see it. But it explains much about how we think today thats for sure.
 

rigged

Semi-Pro
Dude, wake up! That bleeding was fake! She was abusing the rules taking an unfair advantage!!
And of course, in any case, if you're feeling sick / you're hurt / etc. you are still supposed to suffer/die on court rather than taking the chance of being checked by a doctor.
(end of sarcastic part)
What the hell are you all guys complaining about?? Really, can you explain that to me? If you're doubting that Sinner was sick, hell, you're really a bunch of conspiracy theorists then, sorry. And do you think that the prolonged MTO was decided by Sinner in order to take advantage of it? I guess it was the doctors who decided about the time required for the treatment, but you guys sure know better right?

Don't tell me that most players who use MTO really need it, cause I don't buy it.
 

vokazu

Legend
Very false. Carrot was and continues to be subjected to nonsensical TTW posts deriding him based on fantastical takes on his case. As well as WADA’s attempt to polish its tarnished reputation by harassing Carrot (and tennis) with a dubious appeal. Had it not been for these continuing distractions I expect he would have beaten Rune in straights rather than four.
WADA is just following the rule. They're not harassing Sinner.
 
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