Wilander: Djokovic's best is better than Nadals and Federers

D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
To me, it seems that powers that made Federer now decided to flush him down the drain. They are preparing to declare Djokovic GOAT. Look what they have done:


Worse than that, they are now forcing Federer to accept other player as the GOAT. I heard today that he said how Djokovic and Nadal (in that order) are not appreciated. How they do miracles. They will force him to admit that someone else is the GOAT.
It's a quality image. And it reflects an astounding achievement.

You may or may not be aware that I featured it in a thread declaring Djoker the second best player of all time.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/djokovic-is-2-right-now.624736/
 

TheAssassin

Legend
You know FFW, if you had such huge admiration and respect for Djokovic, why trying so hard on insisting that his legacy, which is dominating most of the events in this decade among other things, is tarnished because he suffered a few losses to older Federer? And since we are constantly reminded by Federer fans that Masters and lower tournaments are nothing but warm up events for the real thing, why giving such a huge value to seven out of eight 30+ year old Federer's wins over Djokovic that came at those exact tournaments? Did they suddenly become more important once someone else took Federer's role of regularly winning the Majors?
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
So we are not that far apart. 1st or 2nd is a matter of taste.
No, sir. :)

However, you will note that I've done him the courtesy of displacing Nadal despite the (at the time of the post) 4-major-title gap.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
You know FFW, if you had such huge admiration and respect for Djokovic, why trying so hard on insisting that his legacy, which is dominating most of the events in this decade among other things, is tarnished because he suffered a few losses to older Federer? And since we are constantly reminded by Federer fans that Masters and lower tournaments are nothing but warm up events for the real thing, why giving such a huge value to seven out of eight 30+ year old Federer's wins over Djokovic that came at those exact tournaments? Did they suddenly become more important once someone else took Federer's role of regularly winning the Majors?
Tag me next time. :)

I'm arguing with a horde of hardcore Djoker fans claiming that he is the GOAT, etc. We're just having a little trip down memory lane here. It's a lot like 2016. ;)
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Djokovic and Nadal fans have been using the Baby, Weak Era excuses since forever.
Federer did not play "the match of his life" in 2011 lol. More excuse making to distract from the fact that PEAK CYGS Contending Djokovic got beat by a run down old man who had been declining since 2007.

One match can decide everything but 2008 was called, "The Greatest Match of All Time" not " The Match FOR Greatest of All Time"
That would be this one:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...best-ever-showing-tennis-what-it-sorely-lacks
http://www.foxsports.com/tennis/sto...and-slam-best-ever-greatest-goat-match-012917
http://tennismash.com/2017/01/28/fedal-final-the-most-important-ever-says-wilander/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-...derer-vs-nadal-tipped-as-biggest-ever/8221504
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/...ralian-open-trophy-roger-federer-rafael-nadal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/20...set-up-in-the-battle-of-best-ever_a_21702435/
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/...d-be-greatest-match-ever-20170124-gtxy50.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/sport/australian-open-tennis-nadal-federer-dimitrov/
https://thefield.scroll.in/828091/t...nally-settled-the-greatest-of-all-time-debate

tc67g0i.png


giphy.gif

You are saying Federer at age 29 was and old man and that his decline started in 2007 at the age of 26-27 ??
And then you also call Him undisputed GOAT ? I don't understand this .
How can GOAT decline at age 26 -27?..
I don't question his Tennis Greatness ,but you are doing it...

And yeah Australian open 2017 doesn't decide anything , it's saying clutching at straws ...

Nadal had beaten Fed 3 times at Australian Open and Fed managed to beat him once finally at 2017 final after 10 YEARS ,and you declare that Fed is GOAT based on that single match Australian Open 2017 ??
Wow , Nice Opportunistic ppl ..

Keep ego aside , Slam race is still ON and Rafa can still catch him , Novak won't win everytime versus Nadal .
 
Last edited:

TheAssassin

Legend
Tag me next time. :)

I'm arguing with a horde of hardcore Djoker fans claiming that he is the GOAT, etc. We're just having a little trip down memory lane here. It's a lot like 2016. ;)
Will do, sorry. :) Since I saw you posting here at the moment I didn't think it was necessary.

Yeah you are right. :D
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Except 2011 Fed was closer to 30 than 29.

What could you tell me about 29 year old Djoker at 2017 AO?

If you think 29 yrs and 10 month Novak djokovic should have the same results as 29 yrs 10 months old Roger Federer , to stand a comparison with Roger then ,
20 year old Federer should have the achievements of 20 yrs old Djokovic or 20 sumthing nadal to stand a chance for comaprison..

Personally I don't think it dat way . Age is just a number.. Stan played his best after age 30..
Djoker played his best ( serve ,volleys and returning ) after age 27 maybe ..
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Tag me next time. :)

I'm arguing with a horde of hardcore Djoker fans claiming that he is the GOAT, etc. We're just having a little trip down memory lane here. It's a lot like 2016. ;)

My favourite player was Connors and now Djokovic. It comes down to style of play. I like gradual decrease of PO2 and frog cooking. My favourite win is against Nadal in W2018 because he beat a better player on the night by sheer power of will. My favourite win against Federer is USO2015 because of the crowd. My favourite loss against Nadal was FO2013; for me this is the best clay court match ever and Nadal is ET. My favourite loss against Federer was Shanghai 2014. Federer played absolutely superbly.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
My favourite player was Connors and now Djokovic. It comes down to style of play. I like gradual decrease of PO2 and frog cooking. My favourite win is against Nadal in W2018 because he beat a better player on the night by sheer power of will. My favourite win against Federer is USO2015 because of the crowd. My favourite loss against Nadal was FO2013; for me this is the best clay court match ever and Nadal is ET. My favourite loss against Federer was Shanghai 2014. Federer played absolutely superbly.

Nice post .
Especially Shanghai Win by Federer. In 2014..
One of my favourite matches ever..
Djoker was at his very best and Still Fed beat him , was an absolute Quality match ...
Was sad for djoker but loved the match quality..
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Nice post .
Especially Shanghai Win by Federer. In 2014..
One of my favourite matches ever..
Djoker was at his very best and Still Fed beat him , was an absolute Quality match ...
Was sad for djoker but loved the match quality..
Same here. Djokovic lost, but no problems with that. Kudos to you Roger, you deserved it and end of story.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Same here. Djokovic lost, but no problems with that. Kudos to you Roger, you deserved it and end of story.

I hope Fed fans don't kill our joy of watchin n admiring Shanghai 2014, by mentioning that anything below slams is a Warm up practice match :(
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Same thing as I told the other guy re Fed v. Agassi.

Henman got some early wins, and then Fed whitewashed him, and sent him packing. He never won a set in their final six matches. And he was 29 the very last time he beat Federer.
Also hilarious by some comparing random B03 wins to slam matches. Probably not surprising though given that masters count is a massively important metric to many these days.

Thankfully, as we discussed, Federer will right the wrongs re. masters counts when Basel is converted
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I hope Fed fans don't kill our joy of watchin n admiring Shanghai 2014, by mentioning that anything below slams is a Warm up practice match :(
I doubt. These kind of matches are moments when sport transcends into art. I remember Red Star-Barcelona in Belgrade 1979 when Maradona scored. That was such artistry that 100K people rooting for Red Star applauded.

 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
‘But at a technical level, when Djokovic has been at the top of his game, I have to say that I’ve been up against an invincible player.’

“I played against a player who did everything perfect. I know nobody playing tennis like this ever. Since I know this sport, I never saw somebody playing at this level”

Quotes by one Rafael Nadal

I still remember those words. And it is coming from Nadal.
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
What does that have to do with what Nadal said?

lol I remember when people tried that game before this guy is trying now. "Nadal just meant Djokovic was the toughest for him personally because of matchup"

Even though his words were clear and didn't say that.

Amazing how people will distort things to not accept a reality.

I'm not even saying Nadal is correct but he DID say that and it wasn't about "matchup" or whatever. Lmfao.
 

Pheasant

Legend
We really need to define peak. I will define it a different way in response to Wilander's quote. For this instance, I'll define peak as the best play over an entire tournament. I.e, whose play for one tournament looked the most unbeatable? I'm going with Nadal, when factoring in all 3 surfaces.

Clay: Nadal is a beast on clay and nobody in history on any surface comes close. Before injuries slowed Nadal down a few steps(especially prior to 2011 when Fed played him tough), Nadal was unplayable on clay.

Grass: Nadal peaked incredibly high on grass. He beat Fed at the 2008 Wimbledon and he played 2007 Fed incredibly tough. Looking back, this 2008 loss was the most painful as a fan. I really wanted to see Fed break Borg's record of 5 straight Wimbledon titles. Dominance to me is winning titles consecutively. I love consecutive records. I really wanted Fed to own this one. But Nadal was too good this day. Now granted, Fed peaked higher than Nadal on grass. I think Fed from 2005 beats 2008 Nadal at Wimbledon. But Nadal's peak on grass was incredibly high.

Hard Court: Nadal at the 2010 USO was insane. This is the only time that I saw Nadal hit several serves in the 130's. The announcers mentioned that Nadal added 10 mph to his average 1st serve speed during this tournament. This Nadal at the USO was unbeatable. Only a peak Djoker(Djoker's play at the 2010 USO and 2011 USO were similar and both beat Fed in 5 sets) could take a set off of this Nadal. Nadal's serves fell back down to earth in 2011.

Now clearly, sustained peak/dominance is the key. So I am not saying that Nadal has been anywhere near Fed's universe on grass, or near Djoker on hard courts. What I'm saying is that Nadal had the highest level for a tourney ever on clay by a long shot, close at the Wimby slow grass, and the best tourney at the 2010 USO.
 
You know FFW, if you had such huge admiration and respect for Djokovic, why trying so hard on insisting that his legacy, which is dominating most of the events in this decade among other things, is tarnished because he suffered a few losses to older Federer? And since we are constantly reminded by Federer fans that Masters and lower tournaments are nothing but warm up events for the real thing, why giving such a huge value to seven out of eight 30+ year old Federer's wins over Djokovic that came at those exact tournaments? Did they suddenly become more important once someone else took Federer's role of regularly winning the Majors?
That guy is so insecure, it's kind of very sad.
 

Pheasant

Legend
My two cents. This whole business of trashing opponents of your favorite player is not cool. Let's learn to compliment all of the players. Nadal is my 3rd favorite player of the big three. But I really appreciate what he has done for tennis. He was been the ultimate warrior of the sport. He plays every point as though the mafia will kill him if he loses that point. You could see this in spades during the Thiem match. Unfortunately for Nadal, this junkyard dog fight in him breaks his body down. But he's incredibly entertaining to watch. When he plays, he appears to have 0 regard for his own health. I see why Rafa has so many fans. Rafa would jump off a building to save a point. You gotta love his style of play. And it was a shame when he slumped badly in 2015 and part of 2016. I actually missed Rafa during this time, despite the fact that he is so close to catching Fed in the slam race. I just want great tennis.

At the end of the day, I have no idea whose peak is better. I have no idea if Peak Djoker beats Peak Federer 7 times out of 10 or vice versa. None of this can be proven. And HTH is just one minute piece of the equation. Nadal was the best overall tennis player of 2017, despite his 0-4 record vs Fed. The goal is to beat the entire field; not just one guy.

We aren't going to always agree. But that gives none of us the right to personally attack somebody. We can attack his/her statements since we all make wrong statements. But attacking entire fan bases or people personally is way off base.
 

Maestroesque

Professional
My two cents. This whole business of trashing opponents of your favorite player is not cool. Let's learn to compliment all of the players. Nadal is my 3rd favorite player of the big three. But I really appreciate what he has done for tennis. He was been the ultimate warrior of the sport. He plays every point as though the mafia will kill him if he loses that point. You could see this in spades during the Thiem match. Unfortunately for Nadal, this junkyard dog fight in him breaks his body down. But he's incredibly entertaining to watch. When he plays, he appears to have 0 regard for his own health. I see what Rafa has so many fans. Rafa would jump of a building to save a point. You gotta love his style of play. And it was a shame when he slumped badly in 2015 and part of 2016. I actually missed Rafa during this time, despite the fact that he is so close to catching Fed in the slam race. I just want great tennis.

At the end of the day, I have no idea whose peak is better. I have no idea if Peak Djoker beats Peak Federer 7 times out of 10 or vice versa. None of this can be proven. And HTH is just one minute piece of the equation. Nadal was the best overall tennis player of 2017, despite his 0-4 record vs Fed. The goal is to beat the entire field; not just one guy.

We aren't going to always agree. But that gives none of us the right to personally attack somebody. We can attack his/her statements since we all make wrong statements. But attacking entire fan bases or people personally is way off base.
Fair point pheasant, I apologise @RF-18 :)
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
With peak big4 in 2011-12 (took 27 of the 32 places in slam semifinals) Djokovic won 4 slams, nadal 2, federer 1, murray 1.

Later Nole became champion of all 4 slams beating the no.2 in all finals, plus the yec and 5 masters.

Peak Nole is the best.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka also beat peak Djokovic on clay, so Wawrinka the better player all-time because of that?
Federer is clearly better at 2/4 slams, has the edge at RG and is tied at AO in wins. Go watch some clips from Fed’s peak days. Heck, even post prime Fed going 2-0 and having double MP vs peak Djoker in 2011 at USO should be enough.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
With peak big4 in 2011-12 (took 27 of the 32 places in slam semifinals) Djokovic won 4 slams, nadal 2, federer 1, murray 1.

Later Nole became champion of all 4 slams beating the no.2 in all finals, plus the yec and 5 masters.

Peak Nole is the best.
Peak Federer better at 3/4 slams.
 

S'in-net

Semi-Pro
looks like mats is trying to challenge mac at the 'random goat' game... :eek:
goat8.gif

Well no...Any self respecting goat is not to be found standing still, looking cutesy, getting passed in the goat race
Happened to Sampras...Won't happen to our trio, who daren't retire until they fall over, because of the unrelenting pace of the goat race and the fear of being trampled. Goats eat up anything and make up the yardage like you wouldn't believe, hence the longevity
 
Here's the thing - all 3 are in contention for GOAT title. The only difference is that whereas Federer is the most gifted tennis player of all-time and Nadal the most gifted athlete in tennis of all-time, Djokovic was neither. He's a pretty good talent and a pretty good athlete, so for him to be in the conversation speaks volumes about who:

a) worked the hardest to reach the pinnacle
b) how Federer has actually underwhelmed relative to his pure talent
c) how Djokovic has the most mental strength (to overcome titans)

And of course, Federer and Nadal had access to far more funding/training than Djokovic since...you know...he was in a war-torn land getting bombed daily.

So, to clarify...Federer > Nadal > Djokovic (for now)...but in terms of maximizing what they were given...Djokovic > Nadal >>>>>>> Federer
 

Pheasant

Legend
Here's the thing - all 3 are in contention for GOAT title. The only difference is that whereas Federer is the most gifted tennis player of all-time and Nadal the most gifted athlete in tennis of all-time, Djokovic was neither. He's a pretty good talent and a pretty good athlete, so for him to be in the conversation speaks volumes about who:

a) worked the hardest to reach the pinnacle
b) how Federer has actually underwhelmed relative to his pure talent
c) how Djokovic has the most mental strength (to overcome titans)

And of course, Federer and Nadal had access to far more funding/training than Djokovic since...you know...he was in a war-torn land getting bombed daily.

So, to clarify...Federer > Nadal > Djokovic (for now)...but in terms of maximizing what they were given...Djokovic > Nadal >>>>>>> Federer

Great post. When watching them play, this is what it looks like to me too. I always thought the same way about McEnroe and Lendl. I thought McEnroe had far more talent than Lendl. But Mac slept fell asleep behind the wheel while Lendl worked his tail off and became a legend. Luckily, Fed didn't wait too long like Mac did. So he has staved off Djoker so far. But by the time McEnroe finally started lifting weights and training, Lendl had lapped him two times over and it was too late.
 

justasport

Professional
Wrong! The Federer from 2005/2006 is the highest peak and most all around best tennis player I’ve ever seen. Djokovic of 2011/2015-2016 is right up there with Federer of 05-06 except for the serve. Wilander hops from player to player calling whoever is playing well the best ever!! He’s worse than John Mcenoroe!!
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
“His movement is so good. He knows he is gonna be in pretty much every rally all time,” he said.

“And when his mind is there, focused, there is really no holes in his game.

“He is basically like a human wall.

“Even if he "only" has 14 (Slams), Nadal 17, Federer 20, in terms of the level of tennis being played consistently, I think Novak Djokovic has reached the ultimate.

“Better than Federer at his best, better than Nadal at his best. We have to put it this way.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...der-tennis-news/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Absolutely correct. He is the GWAT, not to be confused with GOAT
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I think Wilander see a bit of himself in Djokovic when it comes to playing style. He knows he was not able to play like Federer but he can relate to Djokovic and that's why he makes statements like this.
Wilander is more like Rafa to me
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Here's the thing - all 3 are in contention for GOAT title. The only difference is that whereas Federer is the most gifted tennis player of all-time and Nadal the most gifted athlete in tennis of all-time, Djokovic was neither. He's a pretty good talent and a pretty good athlete, so for him to be in the conversation speaks volumes about who:

a) worked the hardest to reach the pinnacle
b) how Federer has actually underwhelmed relative to his pure talent
c) how Djokovic has the most mental strength (to overcome titans)

And of course, Federer and Nadal had access to far more funding/training than Djokovic since...you know...he was in a war-torn land getting bombed daily.

So, to clarify...Federer > Nadal > Djokovic (for now)...but in terms of maximizing what they were given...Djokovic > Nadal >>>>>>> Federer
I like this post but I still feel Nadal is above Djokovic in the department of maximizing what they were given. Let me explain-

1. Nadal was born with a foot deformity and grass really hurts him but he still has a couple of titles there. It is self evident as to what his 'maximizing' capabilities are.
2. His style is such that critics said he would be done by 25. He is still putting himself in positions to win titles at 32.
3. Djokovic really went off the radar between 2012-2014. After a stellar 2011, the next couple of years feel very mediocre. If Djokovic would have gone on a tear then, the goat debate would have been settled by now.
4. I do not think Federer is so far behind. Federer maximised his potential so well that he has never missed playing a slam for a long long time. He is playing at 37. That's remarkable.

On the whole I think there's very little to differentiate the three in terms of their commitment to the sport.
 

Service Ace

Hall of Fame
The more bombastic you get, the more insecure you feel. Sorry mate. I don’t fall in line with what the media tells me to believe.

Lol right, everybody else in the world (media members, commentators, current and former players, members of this forum, the majority of tennis fans and the general population at large) is wrong except for you :rolleyes:

Why don't you just say what you mean Stannis:

MvWijuG.gif
 

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
Mats has a very short memory, he seems to only go by real time, for example when Roger beat Berdych in the 3rd round of AO 17' he said it was the best performance he'd ever seen from Roger.....

Mats is a sensationalist who just hypes the flavour of the month for attention.

That doesn't mean he is necessarily wrong in this case though.
 
Top