Will All Of You Next-gen Bashers Finally Stop Whining If Berrettini Wins?

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
Let them start winning first. They cannot expect to be praised or lauded for ALWAYS bending over dutifully against the Big 3. For example if Berrettini actually takes down Novak tomorrow, it’ll be complete credit to him. But deep down we all know that’s never gonna happen. It’s this certainty of their failure that’s frustrating.
Agreed. Since the start of 2020, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Shapo, Zverev, even Thiem - they all got their first crack at the big guy. Djokovic beat them all. It’s embarrassing that it happened, but for all of them it was the first time. So if it happens again in a Slam, vs. a Djokovic who has likely declined even further… I don’t even need to say the rest.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Agreed. Since the start of 2020, Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Shapo, Zverev, even Thiem - they all got their first crack at the big guy. Djokovic beat them all. It’s embarrassing that it happened, but for all of them it was the first time. So if it happens again in a Slam, vs. a Djokovic who has likely declined even further… I don’t even need to say the rest.
Why is it embarrassing to lose to the best player ever at his peak?

Was it embarrassing to watch Roddick be destroyed over and over to Federer?
 

Waves

Rookie
Hey OP, is that an ad hominem fallacy in the title no less? Nasty, unheard of in this forum. So personal…

I am very critical of the younger gens. I don’t feel I’m a whiner. How about this, put your money where your mouth is…if Berrettini wins tomorrow, I’ll bow out for ever on this forum…if ND wins, you’re gone for a year? Are you a whiner or will you back up your thread?
 

maupp

Semi-Pro
The Shapovalov case is a great example of younger guys getting unfair criticisms on these boards. Normally he shouldn't have been expected to win against the experienced world number 1 and his display should be commanded yet all you read here is how much of a mug and useless he is because he got a bit tight on some big points.

When even the likes of Federer, a proven champion at the highest level can get tight and choke some games away against Nole, is it any surprising to see a young lad with no experience whatsoever on the biggest stage(first slam semi final) get tight on some crutial points?

Some people are simply caught in their feelings, not satisfied with how things are unravelling and taking their frustrations on the younger lads for failing to protect their idols records. How about directing those angers to them idols themselves for not doing enough to keep their own records. It's not the younger lads jobs to do so. They are trying to make their own way and will mature at their own pace and not just magically gain all the experience and mental resilience to not get phased at the biggest stage against all time greats just because some people think they have to protect some records that their favorites are holding.

Some of these lads are only 22, reaching Slam SF and finals yet get called mugs for failing to beat opponents of Djokovic caliber. I mean this place is filled with absurdities and utter pettiness at times.
 

ND-13

Hall of Fame
The Shapovalov case is a great example of younger guys getting unfair criticisms on these boards. Normally he shouldn't have been expected to win against the experienced world number 1 and his display should be commanded yet all you read here is how much of a mug and useless he is because he got a bit tight on some big points.

When even the likes of Federer, a proven champion at the highest level can get tight and choke some games away against Nole, is it any surprising to see a young lad with no experience whatsoever on the biggest stage(first slam semi final) get tight on some crutial points?

Some people are simply caught in their feelings, not satisfied with how things are unravelling and taking their frustrations on the younger lads for failing to protect their idols records. How about directing those angers to them idols themselves for not doing enough to keep their own records. It's not the younger lads jobs to do so. They are trying to make their own way and will mature at their own pace and not just magically gain all the experience and mental resilience to not get phased at the biggest stage against all time greats just because some people think they have to protect some records that their favorites are holding.

Some of these lads are only 22, reaching Slam SF and finals yet get called mugs for failing to beat opponents of Djokovic caliber. I mean this place is filled with absurdities and utter pettiness at times.
How about players aged 25-30, who have all the experience in the world.

Please dont say Djokovic is at his peak , because that is so far from the truth
 

duaneeo

Legend
Some of these lads are only 22, reaching Slam SF and finals yet get called mugs for failing to beat opponents of Djokovic caliber.
If Andy Murray can beat an opponent of Nole's caliber twice in a slam final, and Stan Wawrinka can beat an opponent of Nole's caliber 3 times (2 finals) in winning 3 slams, why haven't the likes of Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas, or Shapovalov been able to do so...more so considering they're facing a past-prime Nole whose caliber has greatly declined?
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
If Andy Murray can beat an opponent of Nole's caliber twice in a slam final, and Stan Wawrinka can beat an opponent of Nole's caliber 3 times (2 finals) in winning 3 slams, why haven't the likes of Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas, or Shapovalov been able to do so...more so considering they're facing a past-prime Nole whose caliber has greatly declined?
Because Djokovic is playing better than ever and has become harder to beat. Even Fedal have struggled against this neo-djokovic
 
Is it really whining when the only next gen slam win was a choke fest where both players cramped in the fifth set because they don’t even have the requisite fitness to play five set matches for the duration of a slam? And said slam win only happened because Djokovic forget the lines calls weren’t automated...
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Understandably there are two agendas at play. On one side, you have Djokovic fans who want you to believe that the opposition is very tough, and the weak era only happened during Federer’s time. On the other side, you have Federer and Nadal fans who want to discredit Djokovic victories by implying the opposition is very weak and the trophies are of lesser value. The truth is usually somewhere in between but in this case, I have to say the opposition is totally outclassed. If a geriatric Federer can reach the quarter finals there is definitely something wrong, regardless of Djokovic level. And Berettini will not win today, but I hope that he will lose in an honorable way, like Shapovalov did before him.
 
Because Djokovic is playing better than ever and has become harder to beat. Even Fedal have struggled against this neo-djokovic
Mentally, he is as tough as ever, but 2011 and 2015 Djokovic would slaughter 2021 Djokovic.

Fedal struggling against this Djokovic is not a sign that he’sat his peak. It’s become a question of who’s declined the least.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Mentally, he is as tough as ever, but 2011 and 2015 Djokovic would slaughter 2021 Djokovic.

Fedal struggling against this Djokovic is not a sign that he’sat his peak. It’s become a question of who’s declined the least.
Complete nonsense. I don’t think you actually believe that.
 
Complete nonsense. I don’t think you actually believe that.
I truly believe that. 2011 is the best version of Djokovic I’ve ever seen who dominated prime Roger, peak Rafa and peak Murray. It’s much more impressive than current Djokovic beating up on the geriatric versions and young mugs.
 

T007

Professional
Made Djoker scream in Paris. Then won Queens. And now in the Final.
Improving. Learning.

Have never seen an entire generation so unfairly scorned and maligned.

Will you ever stop Bashing roddick,Hewitt,Safin,Nalbandian and bunch of other veterans of the 2000s era.
 

T007

Professional
I truly believe that. 2011 is the best version of Djokovic I’ve ever seen who dominated prime Roger, peak Rafa and peak Murray. It’s much more impressive than current Djokovic beating up on the geriatric versions and young mugs.
Dominated Prime Fed ??? Federer was 30 and was past his prime...He stopped djokers streak and djokovic barely escaped from defeat in USO.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
I truly believe that. 2011 is the best version of Djokovic I’ve ever seen who dominated prime Roger, peak Rafa and peak Murray. It’s much more impressive than current Djokovic beating up on the geriatric versions and young mugs.
That guy was a freak. This Djokovic is still at least 90% of his peak though and in some ways better . Tactically and technically he has never been better
 

T007

Professional
No but 2014-2019 Federer was prime level, with some peak tournaments . 2017-2020 defo prime Nadal on clay and HC slams
Actually 2006-9 was prime djokovic when he finally beat Fed in slams and won Tour Finals andd started winning big titles
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Made Djoker scream in Paris. Then won Queens. And now in the Final.
Improving. Learning.

Have never seen an entire generation so unfairly scorned and maligned.

If Berrettini beats Novak tomorrow that will be the most impressed I've ever been by this generation. That's not saying much considering he'd be beating a 34-year-old who played half the tournament through a bout of food poisoning.
 
Even if NextGen were serving comets, and Djoko still winning,

they would again be called "weak era" by Fedal fans.

The point is: Novak is a Superman, 1 in the history of sport,
don't blame it on the youngsters any more.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
That guy was a freak. This Djokovic is still at least 90% of his peak though and in some ways better . Tactically and technically he has never been better
The serve can most definitely improve with age. Along with mentality, tactics and nutrition.That can offset much of the slight speed disadvantage due to age.
 
That guy was a freak. This Djokovic is still at least 90% of his peak though and in some ways better . Tactically and technically he has never been better
He definitely hasn’t declined as much as Rafa, but im not sure i would say he’s at 90% of his peak. His serve and tactics are at their absolute peak, but his movement, ground game, and even return have declined.

2011 Djokovic had an absolutely monstrous ground game and return, more than enough to compensate for the worse serve. He won 38% of return games that year vs his career average of 32%. He’s at 32% these days which is at around 18% down from his peak. 2011 Djokovic’s hold game was no slouch either. He still held serve 86% of the time vs 88% in 2019. In 2021 YTD, he’s at 83%, but of course that’s right after clay season.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Made Djoker scream in Paris. Then won Queens. And now in the Final.
Improving. Learning.

Have never seen an entire generation so unfairly scorned and maligned.

Turn it around:

Will All Of You Next-gen Bashers Whine Even More If Berrettini Loses?

Simple answer: Yes.
 

maupp

Semi-Pro
Federer is 0-3 in finals against Djokovic at Wimbledon including a match where he failed to convert 2 match points on his serve yet people would act as if Berrettini is an utter mug if he failed to pull off something that even Federer couldn't.

I wish sometimes people would apply context and look at things with perspective.
 

Jonas78

Legend
Federer is 0-3 in finals against Djokovic at Wimbledon including a match where he failed to convert 2 match points on his serve yet people would act as if Berrettini is an utter mug if he failed to pull off something that even Federer couldn't.

I wish sometimes people would apply context and look at things with perspective.
Federer has won 20 slams and was already a 12 slam winner at age 26. Djokovic didnt beat him at Wimbledon before Fed was 33y old. Its a terrible comparison. People are so used to the young guys losing they are going to make up excuses until they all end up like Dimitrov. I have more hope in 40y old Federer than any of the players younger than 34, but hey, dont be too tough on the young guys!
 
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Halba

Hall of Fame
Sure. There's a 1% chance that happens tomorrow. If Berritini wins more than 10 games, frankly, I'll be surprised.

Honestly, eventually, some of these guys will win, even against Novak. I just don't know when that will be. Right now, Novak looks like he'll be him for at least several more years.

For god sakes, Medvedev got smoked on his best surface. Tsitsipas lost a 2-0 lead on his best surface and Novak's worst. I'm basically resigned to the fact that they don't have "more" they'll have to wait for Novak to be even less. The crazy thing is that he's not THAT good nowadays compared to his peak. It just doesn't matter, he's just so much better at doing things that eventually lead to winning.
He’s playing a notch below peak level. Evidenced by the RG victory on his worst surface. The serve has improved a notch. The forehand is very strong.
 

Halba

Hall of Fame
How about players aged 25-30, who have all the experience in the world.

Please dont say Djokovic is at his peak , because that is so far from the truth
His peak was 2011 to early 2012. but he has maintained a generally high level since is fair to say. That’s enough to beat next gen
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
If he was facing Federer then he would nail more of those BPs because he’s not as scary as Djokovic on other side of net.

With Djokovic, you know he won’t miss so there’s more pressure on every shot to hit closer to the lines.

Most of those BPs were saved by amazing Djokovic play. Federer and Nadal are just as bad at playing the big points vs Djokovic so you can’t pin this on the nextgen… he is simply too good.
LOL….I’m sure even you know you’re spouting rubbish at this point.
 

MS_07

Rookie
Made Djoker scream in Paris. Then won Queens. And now in the Final.
Improving. Learning.

Have never seen an entire generation so unfairly scorned and maligned.

Ppl call 2003-07 weak no body bats an eye
Call 2011-2021 weak era and ppl start crying :-D

what a double standard:-D:-D:sick::p
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
Why didn't Djokovic have to face 6 year younger ATG's? Life's so unfair and cruel to our poor Roger! What did he ever do to anyone to deserve this?

You mean the whine along those lines?
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
It's no secret the combination of a consistent game with no flare, and odd courtside, on court, and off court behaviour makes him what he is.
Is he one of the greatest? Of course. The consistency pays off big time. I am always amazed at his service return game. I love Agassi, and I can admit the Joker is a better returner.
Is he well loved? Not really. Is it popular to love a ruminant?
I mean, a journalist actually asked him how comfortable he was being the 'bad guy'. Was it rude? Oh, yeah. But class looks like it was thrown out the window when Connors and McEnroe became stars.
Was it true? No. But, was it a question that someone would ever ask Rafa or Fed? Never.
When you have two disco stars that are as well-loved as Rafa and Federer are, any usurper without similar levels of charm that comes along and disrupts that party is going to draw some exasperation from fans.
Captivating an audience is one thing. Beguiling an audience is another thing altogether.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
The problem is when these guys start winning we will all know that it’s only because the big 3 are in their late 30’s and a shadow of their former selves

They will always be inferior to the big 3 because of their colossal failure up to this point already
 

Waves

Rookie
Ok so the OP has tapped out, so any other new gen ball washers want to take my offer? I’ll disappear if berry wins, you go for a short walkabout if ND wins?

Anyone? Anyone?

Yup, that’s what I thought. Lol
 
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