Will Djokovic end up as Open Era Hard court GOAT?

Will Djok be the HC GOAT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 28.6%

  • No

    Votes: 45 71.4%
  • Total voters
    63
SpicyCurry1990

SpicyCurry1990

Hall of Fame
The chances of Djok being a legit over-all Open Era GOAT contender ended after losing 4 of his last 5 GS finals, but he still has an outside shot to win Hard court GOAT and ensure this era produces three different surface GOATs.

1)Right now Nole is #2 in HC masters titles with 14 (tied with Agassi, 1 behind Fed's 15)

2)He also has 9 HC GS finals which is 5th all time (Agassi has 10, Fed/Sampras/Lendl have 11)

3)He has 5 HC slams won which is t-4th (with Lendl, behind Agassi 6, Sampras 7, Fed 9)

4)Since the WTF went to HC he has 3 which is 2nd all time (behind Fed's 6)

Looking at these totals, if Djok wins 1 more AO, 1 more USO, reaches 1 other HC slam final, and wins 2 more HC masters shields he would tie Sampras for #2 in HC slam wins, have the most HC slam finals, the most AO titles, and most HC masters titles, which should secure him #2 HC player of all time. I think this is very doable.

Surpassing Fed for #1 does not seem likely, but I think he still has enough time for it to be possible.

Djok's last slam he will play before turning 30 is AO 2017. That gives him 6 more HC slam chances, to win 4 more and match Fed's 9 in titles and surpass him in slam finals as well as masters shields.

He also has 3 WTF (winning the last two) and has 3 more left in his 20s. He would have to win all 3 to match Fed, but if he wins 2 and falls 1 short with many more masters 1000s, 2 more slam finals, and equal slams I would still give it to him.

Thoughts?
 
Djokovic is gonna have to GOAT the US Open from now on to catch up with Federer who has 5 titles there. They are equal at the AO but Federer has 3 more WTF's. I'm not even mentioning all the crazy streaks that Federer has like 11 consecutive AO SF's or better!!! or 65 matches won on HC in a row (Fed was unbeaten on HC's for more than a year in 2005/2006!)

He can get close if he keeps up for the next 3-4 years but it's gonna be very hard to surpass Federer.
 
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Well he's got 5 Hardcourt slams Fed has 9 he will surely past him in HC masters title. Nole is 27. he maybe wins 3-4 more Hardcourt slam. So I think he definitely has a chance.

Also interesting at the moment nole has a higher winning percentage on HC than federer
 
SpicyCurry1990 said:
He also has 3 WTF (winning the last two) and has 3 more left in his 20s. He would have to win all 3 to match Fed, but if he wins 2 and falls 1 short with many more masters 1000s, 2 more slam finals, and equal slams I would still give it to him.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I think the general consensus will usually be that the player with more Majors on the surface is better, and that everything else is a tie-breaker (in order of precedence: WTFs, Major Runner-Ups, Masters etc.).

Also, Fed is still active, and may end up with another hard court Major (unlikely, but possible).


McEnroeisanartist said:
No, hard court GOAT is Federer and always will be.
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Can I borrow your time machine?
 
tennis_pro said:
Djokovic is gonna have to GOAT the US Open from now on to catch up with Federer who has 5 titles there. They are equal at the AO but Federer has 3 more WTF's. I'm not even mentioning all the crazy streaks that Federer has like 11 consecutive AO SF's or better!!! or 65 matches won on HC in a row (Fed was unbeaten on HC's for more than a year in 2005/2006!)

He can get close if he keeps up for the next 3-4 years but it's gonna be very hard to surpass Federer.
Click to expand...

Would he have to GOAT the US Open? Also do the streaks really matter when Nole has pretty much the same career HC win %? I think that right there covers the consistency.

What if he wins 2 more each of USO, AO, WTF and 6 more masters shields?
Lets say Fed doesn't win any more slams or WTF and tacks on a couple more shields.

Totals would be:

Fed - 9 slams (5 USO, 4 AO), 2 finals (2 USO), 6 WTF, 17 Masters
Djok - 9 slams (6 AO, 3 USO), 4 finals (4 USO), 5 WTF, 20 Masters
 
Unlikely but not impossible. Fed won his first big HC titles at 22 (YEC 2003, AO 2004), and hasn't made a HC slam final since Australia 2010, when he was 28. Even if Novak doesn't reach 9 HC slams (I think he'll at least get to 7 or so), if he performs well on the surface into his 30s you could make a longevity argument, given his first major HC title was at age 20 in Melbourne 2008.

Would like to see a better mix of slow and fast HC titles at the end of the day - 1 title combined b/w Cincinnati and New York is a problem - but it's not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch.

That said, peak to peak on HCs, I'd take mid-2000s Fed over 2011 Novak.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Brb, talking about a guy as HC GOAT with 1 USO title.

Freaking NADAL has more USO titles than Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Chill out bropse, obviously he isn't close now, its extrapolation...

But he is already top 5 for sure and likely climbs to #3 if he just wins the USO this year.

1-Fed
2-Sampras
3-Agassi
4-Lendl
5-Djokovic
 
Djoker101 said:
Well he's got 5 Hardcourt slams Fed has 9 he will surely past him in HC masters title. Nole is 27. he maybe wins 3-4 more Hardcourt slam. So I think he definitely has a chance.

Also interesting at the moment nole has a higher winning percentage on HC than federer
Click to expand...

Because he is 6 years younger. Once he starts getting older the winning % wont be as good as it is now.
 
eldanger25 said:
Unlikely but not impossible. Fed won his first big HC titles at 22 (YEC 2003, AO 2004), and hasn't made a HC slam final since Australia 2010, when he was 28. Even if Novak doesn't reach 9 HC slams (I think he'll at least get to 7 or so), if he performs well on the surface into his 30s you could make a longevity argument, given his first major HC title was at age 20 in Melbourne 2008.

Would like to see a better mix of slow and fast HC titles at the end of the day - 1 title combined b/w Cincinnati and New York is a problem - but it's not out of the realm of possibility by any stretch.

That said, peak to peak on HCs, I'd take mid-2000s Fed over 2011 Novak.
Click to expand...
Players decline after 27. thats why.
 
SpicyCurry1990 said:
Chill out bropse, obviously he isn't close now, its extrapolation...

But he is already top 5 for sure and likely climbs to #3 if he just wins the USO this year.

1-Fed
2-Sampras
3-Agassi
4-Lendl
5-Djokovic
Click to expand...

Extrapolate? You know how many uso titles Federer, Sampras, Agassi, Lendl won after hitting 27? ONE. Just one. Djokovic already turned 27, by stats he should win just ONE more USO. not that great. Two USOs wont be enough to be hc GOAT.
 
Another interesting tidbit is that the AO is the HC slam where the older players have won their last hc slam, usually. Federer, Agassi and Lendl.
 
Fiji said:
Players decline after 27. thats why.
Click to expand...

Sure - but if Novak snags 1-2 of the three major HC titles a few years after that age (unlikely of course), then you could make a longevity-based argument for him, since you'd be looking at a guy who won the biggest titles from age 20 into, hypothetically, his 30s.

I agree he isn't on pace to do that, historically. But he's in the kind of shape - and messed around enough in his early 20s, so that he doesn't have as many miles on him as he could've - that it could happen.
 
The Australian Open is the best grand slam because everyone is on even footing there. Lots of players can succeed on Plexicushion from baseliners to all courters to serve and volleyers. It is the best indicator of GOAT-hood.
 
Maximagq said:
The Australian Open is the best grand slam because everyone is on even footing there. Lots of players can succeed on Plexicushion from baseliners to all courters to serve and volleyers. It is the best indicator of GOAT-hood.
Click to expand...

Matt my friend, as always you're pushing it a bit ;)
 
How does Novak have any similarity to Murray, Sampras, federer, McEnroe, etc?

He is a potential-unfulfilled clown and if he puts his mind on his job, he succeeds very well. He applauds nadal's quickness and chokes. He wants his baby born and he wants to chat a lot on
the internet. That's why he didn't achieve his potential and everyone shakes their head in confusion.

Sampras had a blood disorder and could only beat goon Roddick and Agassi and retire early. Federer is the most overrated hardcourt player of all time, as the master1000 and masters cup wins dried up quickly with djoko around since 2008.
Murray and nadal weren't too bad on hardcourt either.
This is not 2004-6. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
Fiji said:
Extrapolate? You know how many uso titles Federer, Sampras, Agassi, Lendl won after hitting 27? ONE. Just one. Djokovic already turned 27, by stats he should win just ONE more USO. not that great. Two USOs wont be enough to be hc GOAT.
Click to expand...

Sampras played in 3 USO finals at 29 and older. You think its inconceivable for Nole to do the same and actually win 2 of 3?

Fed stopped winning because Del Po/Nadal/Djok/Murray the next generation of elite talent arrived. What young guns capable of winning hard court slams do you see on the horizon? Raonic/Nishikori/Dimitrov? lol combined so far to reach 0 USO QF even and no one else has arrived. The main contenders to Nole are all the same age (Murray), older (Nadal, Wawrinka, Fed, T-Bird, Tsonga), or injured too much to predict (Del Po).

Nole could easily win USO this year, AO the next and win 1 last more each before ending his career.
 
Djoko needs at least four more USOs to catch up to Fed and Sampras in that department, although he does have more AOs than Sampras.
Nole also has three consecutive AOs, but Fed has five consecutive USOs, so unless Djoko goes on a huge 2011-or-better winning tear over the next three years, I don't see it happening.
I believe he will get at least one more USO (probably two with the Fed/Rafa decline) and end his career third-best after Fed and Pete, and very close to Agassi.
 
Firstservingman said:
Djoko needs at least four more USOs to catch up to Fed and Sampras in that department, although he does have more AOs than Sampras.
Nole also has three consecutive AOs, but Fed has five consecutive USOs, so unless Djoko goes on a huge 2011-or-better winning tear over the next three years, I don't see it happening.
I believe he will get at least one more USO (probably two with the Fed/Rafa decline) and end his career third-best after Fed and Pete, and very close to Agassi.
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If he wins two more USO he would pass Sampras.

Both would have 7 HC slams and 4 HC runner-ups and Djok would have way more HC Masters titles, higher surface win %, and 3-2 lead in HC WTF.

I think without question he gets to at least #2.
 
I think Djokovic will finish with 4 Australian Opens, and Nadal will finish with 4 US Opens.

The question is who will win the most of the other hardcourt slam. Nadal currently has one AO, while Djokovic currently has one USO.

I like Nadal's chances of winning the AO more than Djokovic's chances of winning the USO.
 
NADALRECORD said:
I think Djokovic will finish with 4 Australian Opens, and Nadal will finish with 4 US Opens.

The question is who will win the most of the other hardcourt slam. Nadal currently has one AO, while Djokovic currently has one USO.

I like Nadal's chances of winning the AO more than Djokovic's chances of winning the USO.
Click to expand...

So you think 27 year peak Nole will win 0 more AO and 28 year old declining Rafa will win 2 more USO?

And you like Rafa's chances of winning a slam he has played in 3 finals in more than Nole winning one where he played in 5 finals?
 
NADALRECORD said:
I think Djokovic will finish with 4 Australian Opens, and Nadal will finish with 4 US Opens.

The question is who will win the most of the other hardcourt slam. Nadal currently has one AO, while Djokovic currently has one USO.

I like Nadal's chances of winning the AO more than Djokovic's chances of winning the USO.
Click to expand...

LOL @ Nadal winning two more USO's.
 
SpicyCurry1990 said:
So you think 27 year peak Nole will win 0 more AO and 28 year old declining Rafa will win 2 more USO?

And you like Rafa's chances of winning a slam he has played in 3 finals in more than Nole winning one where he played in 5 finals?
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Djokovic is done winning slams if 2014 is his peak (btw Djokovic lost the AO, and that's the only slam he's won since 2011....).

While Nadal made the AO final (and the AO is his worst slam event) and has the best claycourt record of 2014.

And the last time Nadal and Djokovic met at a slam was the US Open when Nadal breadisticked Djokovic in the 4th set. Nadal's hardcourt prime has just begun (in 2014 Nadal became the first man ever to win Indian Wells, Montreal, Cincy, US Open in the same year).
 
NADALRECORD said:
Djokovic is done winning slams if 2014 is his peak (btw Djokovic lost the AO, and that's the only slam he's won since 2011....).

While Nadal made the AO final (and the AO is his worst slam event) and has the best claycourt record of 2014.

And the last time Nadal and Djokovic met at a slam was the US Open when Nadal breadisticked Djokovic in the 4th set. Nadal's hardcourt prime has just begun (in 2014 Nadal became the first man ever to win Indian Wells, Montreal, Cincy, US Open in the same year).
Click to expand...

Should have said prime Djok not peak, my bad.

Nadal got waxed in 4 easy sets by Wawrinka playing his best career tennis, while Djok still took him to overtime in the 5th set at AO. Its not like Nadal was playing better than Djok just because he got to the final. No one else took 2 sets from Wawrinka at AO.

Nole has the better clay court 2014 record btw 8-1 vs 13-3.

Nadal outplayed Nole at USO 2013 no doubt, but Nole won their last match there in 4 sets in 2011. Nole is 1 W, 4 F at USO vs 2 W, 1 F for Nadal compared to 4 W vs 1W, 2 F in favor of Nole at AO.
 
Interesting. Lost of threads designed to antagonize Djokovic vs Federer fans created recently by brand new posters with still green nicknames. This is just another new one.

Coincidence? I don't think so.
 
NADALRECORD said:
Djokovic is done winning slams if 2014 is his peak (btw Djokovic lost the AO, and that's the only slam he's won since 2011....).

While Nadal made the AO final (and the AO is his worst slam event) and has the best claycourt record of 2014.

And the last time Nadal and Djokovic met at a slam was the US Open when Nadal breadisticked Djokovic in the 4th set. Nadal's hardcourt prime has just begun (in 2014 Nadal became the first man ever to win Indian Wells, Montreal, Cincy, US Open in the same year).
Click to expand...
Dude. That was 2013 when he did all that. Since then the only HC title he won was Doha this year, where there weren't any top 10 players in the draw.

After that he lost early at IW and lost convincingly at Miami. And didn't win the AO.

And if you bring up beating 32 year old Fed in straights for the first time in a non clay slam, well it does not prove anything,since Fed is not even in his 2012 form anymore. And Rafa was expected to win that match.
 
SpicyCurry1990 said:
If he wins two more USO he would pass Sampras.

Both would have 7 HC slams and 4 HC runner-ups and Djok would have way more HC Masters titles, higher surface win %, and 3-2 lead in HC WTF.

I think without question he gets to at least #2.
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I disagree. In terms of prestige, US Open is still far above AO. So, if Djokovic wins 2 more USO, that will put him on 7 HC majors, but still with less USO than Sampras. Djokovic needs to win at least 3 more USO to surpass Sampras as HC GOAT.
 
helloworld said:
I disagree. In terms of prestige, US Open is still far above AO. So, if Djokovic wins 2 more USO, that will put him on 7 HC majors, but still with less USO than Sampras. Djokovic needs to win at least 3 more USO to surpass Sampras as HC GOAT.
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I am not so sure about that.

For example W is more prestigious than RG, but Nadal might still be considered the GOAT if he passes Fed in slam count.

I know we are talking only about HC, but i was giving a general example.

Today all slam are equal so it doesn't matter anymore. Because as opposed to the 80's, today all the best players participate at AO, so Djokovic didn't win his titles in a weak field like it used to be at AO years ago.

Plus what he did in 2012 to win the AO, his AO victories are on par with the victories at any slam for me. Nobody had to work to win a GS title like this,besides Djokovic IMO
 
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looking at stats

In the modern era of tennis, after the wood racquet, since 1985, no male player won more than one us after turning 27...

Sampras, Agassi, Lendl, Federer, all of them only won one uso after turning 27.

Looking at these stats, Nadal already won his last uso in 2013, the year he turned 27.

Djokovic already turned 27. He will win just one more uso which is complemented by his pathetic numbers in uso finals, 1 win vs 4 losses. he will probably end with 2 wins and 6 losses in uso finals.
 
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helloworld said:
I disagree. In terms of prestige, US Open is still far above AO. So, if Djokovic wins 2 more USO, that will put him on 7 HC majors, but still with less USO than Sampras. Djokovic needs to win at least 3 more USO to surpass Sampras as HC GOAT.
Click to expand...

The hell is this? They are both grand slams with the same fields, same rankings points and AO actually has higher prize money.
 
no I don't think he'll make it. Let's say he has 8 more slams in which he's got a chance on hard court. Of these I expect Nadal to take at least 1, Murray to take at least one. So 2-4 go to them. I think 1 or 2 will go somewhere else so 3-6 of the 8 will go elsewhere. So I think Djokovic will win anywhere between 2 and 5 more hard court slams. So, an outside chance but unlikely. A good shot at becoming the number 2 on hard court but probably needs 2 wins at the US if he only gets to 7 else he looks more like the Auz goat rather than the hard court (both slams) player.
 
Chico said:
Interesting. Lost of threads designed to antagonize Djokovic vs Federer fans created recently by brand new posters with still green nicknames. This is just another new one.

Coincidence? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

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