Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
You're only figuring this out now? Jeez, I've been here about a month, and I figured this out in the first couple days. We only do it for laughs.
Will Djokovic end up with a better career than Nadal ?
- Thread starter tennisaddict
- Start date
You're only figuring this out now? Jeez, I've been here about a month, and I figured this out in the first couple days. We only do it for laughs.
Clarky21
Banned
Clarky21
Banned
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Wrong about what? I didn't state any facts there. I could say the same about you now that you've said it about me.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
So basically all this stuff about him playing badly (by his own standards) on hardcourt recently,is rubbish and in fact you're just annoyed because Djokovic is winning titles. In fact Nadal has played better on hc but just lost out to Djokovic who is a naturally better HC player and was/is at his peak level. But because you're such a Nadal fan you have to make up stuff about his HC game being worse than it usually is.
And I gave you examples of when he won easy. Losing 2 games to monaco? Thrashing Ferrer?
Well I criticised him for moaning about the clay in Madrid, about him turning up in Paris last year just to pick up some cash and retire, even about some of his celebrations like one match where he won an early round in an event and went crazy like he won a tournament. I've also said many times he isn't as good as Federer or Nadal, won't match their careers, has been slightly unconvincing at the US Open on the whole (1 out of 4 finals won, never beat Federer without struggling) been unconvincing at the WTF despite winning it once, and I've basically conceded that his 2011 clay success over Nadal was most likely a one off. You actually fight me on a lot of these points :lol:
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Clarky21
Banned
You agreed with what TheFifthSet said,so I told you you're wrong. He's just ticked off that I ignore him,and will continue to do so.
And not everybody has to be a pom pom waving cheerleader when it comes to their favorite player. I will never resort to being a fantard. Never.
Clarky21
Banned
No. Nadal's level is not good enough to match Cvac's,and by him being in finals against him,he's just gifting him titles. I would rather Cvac actually have to earn them rather than have them handed to him is all.
Not being as good as Fed I'll give you but not being as good as Nadal? Come on,you know that's not true in the least.
No it wasn't,and you will see next year when he repeats what he did in 2011 again.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Well basically what this means is Nadal was not post prime or playing crap on HC 2011, he just lost to a better HC player and did well to even get close to winning IW, miami and the AO, which is much better than he would have done most of his career considering Djokovic was destroying him on hardcourt from 2007-2009. The only surface he played below form on was clay. Which is why Djokovic beat him so easily and why he won't do it again unless Nadal has another terrible year. Given that breezed through the clay season this year, that's not a sure thing.
And I think Djokovic is more talented than Nadal, but Nadal is still the better player. He didn't waste years after his first slam win. He also dominates a surface which Djokovic does not and he's just a bigger champion. Djokovic will never match his achievements. And even you who think he will, only think he will because of lack of competition, not because he's better. Right?
btw who should he have had to beat to earn those wins? He beat Murray and fed in AO 2011, Fed in Dubai, Fed and Nadal in IW, and again in the US Open, and Fed and Murray in AO 2012. It wasn't just nadal he beat. Btw, the AO this year was some gift :lol:
Clarky21
Banned
Yes it does. Nadal was already a hardcourt mug,and since he has declined so much,he took the mugging to another level. He made it easy for Cvac to win those titles because his level is so low. Nadal had no business being in any of those finals. It's too bad Fed and Murray were playing garbage tennis for the majority of last year or else maybe Cvac would have had a worthy opponent in all those finals instead of a walkover.
Do you think time is standing still or something? Nadal will be 27 years old next year,and playing on busted knees. He's got nothing to hurt prime Cvac with on any surface including clay.
Absolutely. Cvac is 100 times more talented than Nadal. At least we agree on something. Lol.
I disagree with that completely. He's not nearly as talented so how do you figure he's better?
I disagree with that as well. I think Cvac will not only match his achievements but surpass them by some margin.
It was. He played defensive all the way through that match and eventually showed his non-existent mental strength by choking away a break of serve he had in the 5th. He didn't belong in that final,and it's too bad Fed didn't put him out of his misery in the semi. It probably would have saved his knees and he wouldn't be sitting on the sidelines with yet another injury(probably a career ending injury this time) while all the other top players play on.
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
How did he take it to a new level of mugginess when he pushed Djokovic harder than he usually does? Prior to 2011 every one of Djokovic's wins on HC were in straight sets. And made it easy? How were IW Miami and the AO easy? How can you type this drivvel? :lol: Also Djokovic beat Fed and Murray many times on route to the finals and they werent playing crap. It's just you cheesed off Djokovic won anything. You are definitely more of a Djoko hater than a nadal fan. And you probably don't ever admit to yourself the utterly crap level Djokovic, Fed and Murray were playing most of 2010 :lol:
And nadal may be getting older but he won MC, Rome Barca. and RG with the loss of one set. He can afford to decline quite a bit before he has to worry about losing his clay throne.
Nadal has done more with the talent he has. Novak spent many years quitting in big tournaments and feeling sorry for himself.
How is taking someon to 5 sets over 6 hours a gift? :lol: In that case Djokovic played an awful US final and gifted Murray the title. The IW Miami and AO matches were all very close and Nadal pushed Djokovic much close than his 2007-2009 self would have. But you claim he was worse in 2011 than his normal hardcourt mug level? I mean given nadal took Djokovic to 5 sets in Australia and led 4-2 in the final set, and was in a final set tiebreak in Miami, what would have happened if nadal had been his normal level of hc mug?
Clarky21
Banned
That's news to me considering I have been a fan of Nadal for nearly 8 years now. :lol:
Like last year? I don't understand this type of thinking. Nadal is beatable everywhere and on any surface.
The only talent Nadal has is his athleticism so it's no wonder he can't hang anymore as he's gotten older. His talent for tennis is marginal at best.
So that's how you explain his insane turn around physically. :lol: I'm not buying it though.
Did you watch that match? It was a defensive pushfest from Nadal. Playing short and defensive is far from the way to beat Cvac,and that's why Nadal is owned by him.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Let's not be ridiculous clarky.
Clarky21
Banned
I don't think I am being ridiculous at all. Nadal is more talented in his athleticism than he is at tennis. He is the least talented of the top 4(soon to be top 5)
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
You are more angry that Djokovic is winning titles. You'd probably rather Djokovic won nothing and Nadal also won nothing rather than them both winning titles.
And last year he won RG. Dunno if anyone told you, but that's kind of the big clay title and Djokovic would gladly swap those Rome and Madrid titles for that. Plus even if his year was terrible on clay, so what? That's 2 bad clay years out of 8. What about this year?Won nearly everything with ease again. Move on from 2011, it's gone.
Not even talking physically, though back in 2007 Djokovic had loads of long matches and in 2009 he was playing 4 hours matches with nadal and playing close to 100 matches on tour, competing more than anyone. But mentally he was happy to be an also ran, unlike Nadal who never failed to go slamless in a year after claiming his first.
And it was a defensive pushfest from Nadal at the AO was it?Well gotta say it almost worked didn't it? If he didn't choke in the 7th game it would have worked. Gotta lol at you saying it was a gift to drag Novak to 5 sets and 6 hours. If that's your idea of a gift I feel sorry for your family at Christmas cos they're probably getting a turd in a box or a kick in the balls :lol:
And if he got that close to winning in australia and that close in Miami playing WORSE than his usual muggy self, what would have happened if he played his normal muggy 2007-2009 tennis? You know the years when Djokovic used to beat him in straight sets all the time. Please answer.. what's that? stumped?
5555
Hall of Fame
Not true. For example Steve Flink thinks that Kramer is above Nadal even though Kramer won 3 slams (the source is Flink's book "Greatest matches of all time" published this year).
No. As you can see (look above) it's far from obvious.
Connors was the Year-End No. 1 in 1977. Can you tell me one expert who said that Connors was the real No. 1 in 1977?
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Clarky21
Banned
Are you thick? I told you that I have been a fan of Nadal for nearly 8 years. Long before Cvac found Dr. Igor. Not sure what you're not understanding here.
So what? That does not erase his overall poor level all of last year. That is unless you believe Nadal choking away set leads and losing to the muggiest of mugs is the norm. And in case you missed it,he struggled mightily through RG last year. He struggled with the mighty Andujar,and got taken to 5 by Isner. He even struggled with old man Ljubicic for crying out loud. You think he was playing the best tennis of his life last year,even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. He played some of the worst tennis I have ever seen him play. Especially during the clay season.
Oh,man this is too funny. :lol: Sorry,but this is all nonsense. Cvac's physical problems that he had throughout his entire career suddenly disappeared in a month's time at the end of 2010. He had an unbelieveable boost in stamina and endurance that,imo,he did not come by naturally. We will never agree on this because you refuse to see what's right in front of your face.
What you're not getting is Nadal had no business being in those finals to begin with. He didn't play all that well,and relied on his defense and nothing more. It kept those matches close,but he should have lost in straights.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Me thick? A bit rich coming from you, a person who often gets outwitted by yourself :lol: And especially funny as you don't even understand or deal with the point you're commenting on. I never disputed you were a nadal fan for 8 years, you bang on about that all the time. But you would rather nadal won nothing if it meant Djokovic won nothing rather than them both win. You'd also rather Nadal never met Djokovic to lose and went without a title rather than him win a slam but lose a few matches to Djokovic.
And like I said no matter how bad he struggled on clay in 2011 he still won the big one and then didn't struggle on clay this year.
And if you want to talk about what's in front of your face, go and look at Djokovic's matches and the length of them in Wimbledon and US Open 2007. Look at the amount of matches he played in 2009 (98 matches if I recall, with one retirement and no cancelled events) go and watch the 4 hour loss he had to nadal in 2009 Madrid. Also last year he totally broke down after the US Open, so he was retire-ovic last year too :lol: Not saying he isn't on anything but if he is he was probably on it for several years (2009 is probably the most suspicious year) the same as nadal and many other players. Djokovic's problem was he was a headcase and baby who retired when it got physically tough instead of playing through it like Nadal. One reason Nadal has been a better player with more heart (career wise) But Djokovic was physically a super man in 2009, but weak between the ears. You don't need to be doping to hit a return winner matchpoint down at the US Open, that's nothing to do with doping. But Djokovic would never have done that pre 2010/2011 no matter how much stuff he was on. But you must find some reason for his success so you ignore facts. And note that I'm not ruling out doping but I think if so he was probably on it in 2009.
And sorry no. I've said Nadal was below par on clay but on hc he was better than he was most of his career. No way you almost beat Djokovic in Miami and the AO when his level has gone up and when his normal average level used to kill you. Even if that was true, you have to say nadal playing ultra defense was a smart move since it almost won him the match compared to his 2007-2009 tennis being totally and utterly useless vs Djokovic on hc. So you can't be hard on Nadal for employing his best chance. Unless you think 2007-2009 would have won those matches. Do you?
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M
monfed
Guest
Once Djokovic wins RG,he'll have a more rounded resume compared to Ralph.
Ralph's a one-surface drone,guy's basically overachieved on other surfaces thanks to ATP slowing down every surface in sight.
Ralph's a one-surface drone,guy's basically overachieved on other surfaces thanks to ATP slowing down every surface in sight.
Prisoner of Birth
Banned
Nadal
7 FO
2 W
1 USO
1 AO
Djokovic (if and when he wins the FO)
1 FO
1 W
1 USO
3 AO
How is that more rounded than Nadal's resume? Djokovic will need to do a lot more than win the FO to be placed anywhere near where Nadal is already at.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
The way she always predicts Nadal to lose every match and especially the ones against Djokovic. She more so dotes and hates on Djokovic.
I don't think she is a Nadal fan....more like a Sore Djokovic hater.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Chances look more brighter. It is 88-41 in Nadal's favor. Will continue to see after each major what everyone thinks.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Indeed that is what happened.
Djokovic sustained the high level from 2011 till 2023.
Nobody could have forseen all this back in 2012 but look where where we are in 2023.
TheNachoMan
Legend
I love voting in old polls and being right. Vamos.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Born_to_slice
Legend
Easy there cowboy. Have you seen that 15 seconds Nadal training video?
CoolCoolCool
Hall of Fame
Silence and facts speak louder than words, no need to bump every thread.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I voted will fall considerably short of Nadal. No matter what he does it will never be anywhere near as legendary as the level Nadal has reached on clay.
Tenacity
Hall of Fame
That's stupid on so many levels
Fiero425
Legend
That's stupid on so many levels
No one said Nadal fans were that bright; no more than Rafa is which is why he looks lost in interviews! It's pathetic how lame he is w/ English after all these yrs.!
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Hey punks you need to show respect to the clay1 god, literally the strongest thing ever in sports historyNo one said Nadal fans were that bright; no more than Rafa is which is why he looks lost in interviews! It's pathetic how lame he is w/ English after all these yrs.!
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You're seriously not comparing a non-contact sport to a full contact sport are you?
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I finally got to witness the infamous Clarky.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Has anything in any sport ever been as dominant and great as Nadal on clay?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Why are you comparing full contact to non-contact though?
Nadal doesn't have to worry about getting punched in the face while he competes.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
We can compare level of dominance and greatness no matter what aspects there are to a sport. All their rivals have to deal with getting punched in the face too not like they're at an unfair disadvantage in their sport
But even if you don't wanna include boxing or mma theres plenty of other sports
Hitman
Bionic Poster
No we can't. Punch him in the ribs, lets see how much he moves.
You cannot compare full contact sport to non-contact. You might as well start comparing chess then as a form of competition.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Well even comparing to non contact sports I'd say Nadal on clay is greater than Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, etc. Just the most godly level ever seen sustained over a long career
joshuayuan
Professional
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Fair enough, that is your opinion.
I would say he is one of the best for sure, no question, personally I will not put him above Jordan. Jordan was the man of his sport, Nadal was the man only on one surface of his sport which lasted basically two months of the year. And I am not putting him above Gretzky either.
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