Will Djokovic ever beat Nadal again?

Will Djokovic ever beat Nadal again?

  • No

    Votes: 14 23.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 47 77.0%

  • Total voters
    61
I do not follow this logic. Nadal if he wins say MC and Rome and Djokovic wins no M1000 goes back to top of m1000 leaderboard. Nadal likely to have a 3 slam lead by July. Federer i assume also will target slams and lesser events to get past connors. So Djokovic could actually lose everything if he only focusses on slams unless he wins them?
I’m not saying Novak will throw the events. No he will still want to play well in these masters and win some. All I’m saying is he doesn’t need to play flat out in everyone to make sure he stays no1 or to try win a masters he not won or set records.

He’s already set so many records at masters level, weeks at no1, year end no1. He can now prioritise what he plays and goes for. Instead of playing a full calendar.

I agree he won’t want to just neglect them fully as he will want to keep his match fitness going, keep confidence up and prevent other rivals getting confidence. It’s more the fact that is he doesn’t need to play flat out every event like he did in past. He can take more rest and conserve energy.
 

thomasferrett

Hall of Fame
I qualified my prediction. That is how to make a prediction so as not to look foolish. I am not like Ivanisevic.

But by over-qualifying it, it means nothing because you haven't taken any risk. Lol, you didn't even risk predicting that Medvedev's form would carry into the final. So it was just a nothing statement.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
I’m not saying Novak will throw the events. No he will still want to play well in these masters and win some. All I’m saying is he doesn’t need to play flat out in everyone to make sure he stays no1 or to try win a masters he not won or set records.

He’s already set so many records at masters level, weeks at no1, year end no1. He can now prioritise what he plays and goes for. Instead of playing a full calendar.

I agree he won’t want to just neglect them fully as he will want to keep his match fitness going, keep confidence up and prevent other rivals getting confidence. It’s more the fact that is he doesn’t need to play flat out every event like he did in past. He can take more rest and conserve energy.
What happens if Nadal or Federer get ye1? Or have the three agreed they are just bothered about Majors? His statement is bizarre and indicative that he is still really frustrated by USO 2020 and FO 2020.
 
I have not seen CPI index for this AO but if it is 40 plus Federer has every chance at AO next season. Federer will be super fresh next 12 months
Well it depends on the field. I agree this year though a fit and well playing fed may have made it far. Who knows? I think he’s a better bet for a deeper run at Wimbledon now but you right 2 of his last 3 slams came at AO.

Im just not sure if his body can survive 7 BO5 matches on hard courts anymore but with the current field he could still have got far I guess.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Well it depends on the field. I agree this year though a fit and well playing fed may have made it far. Who knows? I think he’s a better bet for a deeper run at Wimbledon now but you right 2 of his last 3 slams came at AO.

Im just not sure if his body can survive 7 BO5 matches on hard courts anymore but with the current field he could still have got far I guess.
Problem is the next Gen are mentally weak. Federer and Nadal will use today to their advantage as well as Djokovic to keep the mental pressure on them. Federer is a bigger favourite than any next Gen player at ever slam simply due to mental strength
 
What happens if Nadal or Federer get ye1? Or have the three agreed they are just bothered about Majors? His statement is bizarre and indicative that he is still really frustrated by USO 2020 and FO 2020.
Because Fed and Rafa will likely do the same. Rafa will look to peak on clay and especially the french open. Fed will look to peak for Wimbledon like Novak.

All 3 of them can’t afford to go hell for leather in every event. They will prioritise what they go for and probably tournaments just before a major they will take more seriously to try round into form.

At the end of the day majors are most important above anything else. Now Novak has the weeks at no1 and it’s unlikely Fed will get no1 back again he can rest assured he’s keeping that record for sometime.
 
Problem is the next Gen are mentally weak. Federer and Nadal will use today to their advantage as well as Djokovic to keep the mental pressure on them. Federer is a bigger favourite than any next Gen player at ever slam simply due to mental strength
I agree there. The mental strength of the big 3 is out of this world. 3 tennis titans of the game. Will never be matched by anyone. Murray/wawrinka managed it on a much smaller scale but nothing compared to Fedalovic!
 

USO

Banned
Wow, more than 1/3 of people think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again. Out of the 2/3 left, if we take out the biased Djokovic fans and those who think that Djokovic might win only once more, it means that 99% think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again or in the best scenario fluke only one more win! (y)
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Wow, more than 1/3 of people think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again. Out of the 2/3 left, if we take out the biased Djokovic fans and those who think that Djokovic might win only once more, it means that 99% think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again or in the best scenario fluke only one more win! (y)
Well the key for me was the Djokovic fans who disappeared off this forum after FO 2020. With his pet slam to come and likely 20-18 they knew it was game over really.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Because Fed and Rafa will likely do the same. Rafa will look to peak on clay and especially the french open. Fed will look to peak for Wimbledon like Novak.

All 3 of them can’t afford to go hell for leather in every event. They will prioritise what they go for and probably tournaments just before a major they will take more seriously to try round into form.

At the end of the day majors are most important above anything else. Now Novak has the weeks at no1 and it’s unlikely Fed will get no1 back again he can rest assured he’s keeping that record for sometime.
How many weeks ahead of Federer is he? How do the rankings work now?
 

vex

Legend
Wow, more than 1/3 of people think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again. Out of the 2/3 left, if we take out the biased Djokovic fans and those who think that Djokovic might win only once more, it means that 99% think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again or in the best scenario fluke only one more win! (y)
Your math is blowing my mind
 

Ogi44

Rookie
Given how comprehensive the 2020 French Open final destruction was for Nadal and given that it was played in cold clay conditions (so, more like hard-court than traditional clay), I really can't picture Djokovic ever beating Nadal again, regardless of surface.

Nadal seems to have improved his backhand to the extent that he gains the edge on Nadal forehand to Djokovic backhand exchanges AND Nadal backhand to Djokovic forehand exchanges.

Seems to be no play to go to for Djokovic. Nadal is fitter and can last longer in rallies too, so Djokovic just seems to mentally check out of rallies and go for a crappy drop-shot to lose the point.

Will Djokovic ever beat Nadal again?
As you can see from tour poll, almost 70% thinks he will and 30% of voters are Rada fans, so there is your answer. He will surely beat him again because he is still superior player outside of clay, and majority agrees with me.
 

Ogi44

Rookie
Hahahhahaaha you went to all that trouble. Made my year to date that. I feel famous lol.
Problem is you are being selective. All those posts are qualified as they relate to current form bud. Thats the bit you are missing. However as you follow everything i say so intently i shall thank you for the compliment.
Trust me. You lost the argument. You just make things worse for yourself. I read your posts also, and you dont know how silly you look now.
 

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Nadal has won 2 of his last 3 matches against Djokovic including 2 bagels, and also 4 of his last 7 matches.

:giggle:
But only on clay. He doesn't last long enough in tournaments to play Djokovic on hardcourt or grass normally where he has not beaten Djokovic since 2013. Clay Goat only.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Trust me. You lost the argument. You just make things worse for yourself. I read your posts also, and you dont know how silly you look now.
I did not lose anything. I am not Ivanisevic for instance. I comprehensively qualified my predictions and was proven 100 per cent correct. You may not like me that is your prerogative. However you cannot put words in my mouth so to speak. Medvedev was not in the form he displayed and lost. His problem moving forward. Djokovic problem remains FO 2020 as he still lags behind and time is running out. A year on we in the same position. I.e Nadal in box seat.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Wow, more than 1/3 of people think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again. Out of the 2/3 left, if we take out the biased Djokovic fans and those who think that Djokovic might win only once more, it means that 99% think that Djokovic will never beat Nadal again or in the best scenario fluke only one more win! (y)

LOL :-D
 

Beckerserve

Legend
As you can see from tour poll, almost 70% thinks he will and 30% of voters are Rada fans, so there is your answer. He will surely beat him again because he is still superior player outside of clay, and majority agrees with me.
Realistically Djokovic only beats Nadal at the AO at Major level. Nowhere else unless courts are sped up. FO 2020 was so brutal i do not see how Djokovic recovers tbh.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
I'm surprised too....Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on grass in nearly 13 years and hasn't even taken a set off him on hard in 7.5 years. Oh well.
Djokovic keeps falling early at USO i suppose one reason and they have not met outdoors on grass since 2011.
For me the determining factor Is FO 2020. Djokovic and Ivanisevic said conditions were so perfect Djokovic could not lose. The manner of that defeat really suggest Djokovic will struggle unless he gets a CPI over say 41ish. Strange nobody can find the CPI for this AO. These are stats that should always be given. Oh well.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic keeps falling early at USO i suppose one reason and they have not met outdoors on grass since 2011.
For me the determining factor Is FO 2020. Djokovic and Ivanisevic said conditions were so perfect Djokovic could not lose. The manner of that defeat really suggest Djokovic will struggle unless he gets a CPI over say 41ish. Strange nobody can find the CPI for this AO. These are stats that should always be given. Oh well.

Djokovic & Nadal have both failed to meet each other at USO after 2013, don't just put it on Djokovic. Nadal didn't play in 2014, did a massive choke in 2015 before playing Djokovic in the quarters, did another massive choke in 2016 before playing Djokovic in the semis, then retired in the semis in 2018 before playing Djokovic in the final....so don't think this is all on Djokovic....both are responsible for that.

As for grass, Djokovic has been waiting in the latter stages plenty of times since he beat Nadal in the 2011 final, Djokovic in the 2013, 2014, 2015 finals, was also waiting in the 2019 finals. Nadal just not good enough to make it to him.

For me personally, grass and HC matches at slams determine who will continue to win them, not clay. Nadal has won the last four clay court matches against Djokovic, and still lost every single time they played off clay. As I said, Nadal with zero wins on grass in 13 years and no sets won on HC in 7.5 makes him a nice tasty morsel for Djokovic to chew on, on those courts.

So, I do agree with you, I am surprised with those devastating factual numbers, why a clay court win somehow means the narrative that is very clear off clay will change. Oh well, we can live and hope I guess.
 

The Guru

Legend
Well the key for me was the Djokovic fans who disappeared off this forum after FO 2020. With his pet slam to come and likely 20-18 they knew it was game over really.
Djokovic doesn't need to have more slams than Nadal to be greater. He's got more weeks more YE 1 more masters double career golden masters 5 more WTFs a winning H2H more RUs in slams more semis/quarters appearances. Basically every achievement bar slam wins (and OG) is in Nole's favor. If the slam gap is 1 Novak is the GOAT at 2 it's pretty even i haven't made up my mind yet.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Djokovic & Nadal have both failed to meet each other at USO after 2013, don't just put it on Djokovic. Nadal didn't play in 2014, did a massive choke in 2015 before playing Djokovic in the quarters, did another massive choke in 2016 before playing Djokovic in the semis, then retired in the semis in 2018 before playing Djokovic in the final....so don't think this is all on Djokovic....both are responsible for that.

As for grass, Djokovic has been waiting in the latter stages plenty of times since he beat Nadal in the 2011 final, Djokovic in the 2013, 2014, 2015 finals, was also waiting in the 2019 finals. Nadal just not good enough to make it to him.

For me personally, grass and HC matches at slams determine who will continue to win them, not clay. Nadal has won the last four clay court matches against Djokovic, and still lost every single time they played off clay. As I said, Nadal with zero wins on grass in 13 years and no sets won on HC in 7.5 makes him a nice tasty morsel for Djokovic to chew on, on those courts.

So, I do agree with you, I am surprised with those devastating factual numbers, why a clay court win somehow means the narrative that is very clear off clay will change. Oh well, we can live and hope I guess.
Nadal has won USO 2 of last 4 years it has been played. The only fact as you put it we have is Nadal is better at USO judging off the h2h there. Nothing has changed particularly. Nadal has won plenty of Canadian Opens recently.
US hard courts are not Australian or asian hard courts. How many times since 2013 have they met in North america? I can think of one time in IW when Nadal was at his lowest ebb. So no nothing to suggest Djokovic beats Nadal at USO really.
On grass their last meeting was under a roof and it went to a 5th set. Only place i see Djokovic actually better Nadal match up wise is in fact Australia. AO 2019 and ATP cup 2020 their recent meetings. I have qualified my statement to say outside Australia..
Time will tell. Shame next Major is on clay really.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Nadal has won USO 2 of last 4 years it has been played. The only fact as you put it we have is Nadal is better at USO judging off the h2h there. Nothing has changed particularly.

Hold on a second here. :) You stated that Djokovic was responsible for them not playing more matches at USO after 2013, and I said he is responsible, but Nadal is equally responsible for failing to meet Djokovic there on multiple occasions. 2014 Nadal didn't bother turning up, 2015 Djokovic was waiting in the quarters and Nadal choked before they met, 2016 Djokovic was waiting in the semis and Nadal choked again before they met, 2018 Djokovic was waiting in the final for a rematch and Nadal retired in the semis....so of course nothing has changed if both Novak and Rafa have not made it there. You are trying to make it out that the responsibility soley falls on Novak, as if Rafa was always waiting in the final for him, when you and I and everyone else know that is grossly inaccurate. Examples above clear that.

Nadal has won plenty of Canadian Opens recently.

Djokovic won the same amount of Cincinnati titles to counter what Nadal has done in Canada.

US hard courts are not Australian or asian hard courts. How many times since 2013 have they met in North america? I can think of one time in IW when Nadal was at his lowest ebb. So no nothing to suggest Djokovic beats Nadal at USO really.

How many times in North America, well let me show you

USO, Nadal 2 -1 = I have also shown why more matches haven't taken place since then, plenty of Nadal choking examples above.
Indian Wells, Djokovic 3 -1 = Nadal won his match 14 years ago, lost three straight
Miami, Djokovic 3 - 0 = Total domination on the HC in South Florida
Canada 1-1 Both Djokovic and Nadal have one win each
Cincinnati Djokovic 2 - 0 = Total domination in Cincy

Overall H2H on NA HC = Djokovic 10, Nadal 4

Yeah, Nadal really owns Djokovic there....

On grass their last meeting was under a roof and it went to a 5th set. Only place i see Djokovic actually better Nadal match up wise is in fact Australia. AO 2019 and ATP cup 2020 their recent meetings. I have qualified my statement to say outside Australia..
Time will tell. Shame next Major is on clay really.

Djokovic beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2018 without his trusted BH DTL shot, which didn't come back until USO 2018, so even without his best shot, he beat in form Nadal, good luck to Nadal to try to beat Djokovic when that BH DTL is firing.

Time will tell, you are right, but the numbers above show who wins when they step onto HC and Grass. And you shouldn't say it's shame that it's clay next, at least Nadal can beat Djokovic there. So all good. :)
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Hold on a second here. :) You stated that Djokovic was responsible for them not playing more matches at USO after 2013, and I said he is responsible, but Nadal is equally responsible for failing to meet Djokovic there on multiple occasions. 2014 Nadal didn't bother turning up, 2015 Djokovic was waiting in the quarters and Nadal choked before they met, 2016 Djokovic was waiting in the semis and Nadal choked again before they met, 2018 Djokovic was waiting in the final for a rematch and Nadal retired in the semis....so of course nothing has changed if both Novak and Rafa have not made it there. You are trying to make it out that the responsibility soley falls on Novak, as if Rafa was always waiting in the final for him, when you and I and everyone else know that is grossly inaccurate. Examples above clear that.



Djokovic won the same amount of Cincinnati titles to counter what Nadal has done in Canada.



How many times in North America, well let me show you

USO, Nadal 2 -1 = I have also shown why more matches haven't taken place since then, plenty of Nadal choking examples above.
Indian Wells, Djokovic 3 -1 = Nadal won his match 14 years ago, lost three straight
Miami, Djokovic 3 - 0 = Total domination on the HC in South Florida
Canada 1-1 Both Djokovic and Nadal have one win each
Cincinnati Djokovic 2 - 0 = Total domination in Cincy

Overall H2H on NA HC = Djokovic 10, Nadal 4

Yeah, Nadal really owns Djokovic there....



Djokovic beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2018 without his trusted BH DTL shot, which didn't come back until USO 2018, so even without his best shot, he beat in form Nadal, good luck to Nadal to try to beat Djokovic when that BH DTL is firing.

Time will tell, you are right, but the numbers above show who wins when they step onto HC and Grass. And you shouldn't say it's shame that it's clay next, at least Nadal can beat Djokovic there. So all good. :)
Thats one long reply that fails to address my points bud. U contradicted yourself numerous times .
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Thats one long reply that fails to address my points bud. U contradicted yourself numerous times .

It destroyed your point I'm afraid, and if your only reply is that I contradicted myself numerous times and you cannot provide me with a single one of those numerous contradictions and explain why, then I will move onto more engaging convos and bid you farewell. (y)
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Hold on a second here. :) You stated that Djokovic was responsible for them not playing more matches at USO after 2013, and I said he is responsible, but Nadal is equally responsible for failing to meet Djokovic there on multiple occasions. 2014 Nadal didn't bother turning up, 2015 Djokovic was waiting in the quarters and Nadal choked before they met, 2016 Djokovic was waiting in the semis and Nadal choked again before they met, 2018 Djokovic was waiting in the final for a rematch and Nadal retired in the semis....so of course nothing has changed if both Novak and Rafa have not made it there. You are trying to make it out that the responsibility soley falls on Novak, as if Rafa was always waiting in the final for him, when you and I and everyone else know that is grossly inaccurate. Examples above clear that.



Djokovic won the same amount of Cincinnati titles to counter what Nadal has done in Canada.



How many times in North America, well let me show you

USO, Nadal 2 -1 = I have also shown why more matches haven't taken place since then, plenty of Nadal choking examples above.
Indian Wells, Djokovic 3 -1 = Nadal won his match 14 years ago, lost three straight
Miami, Djokovic 3 - 0 = Total domination on the HC in South Florida
Canada 1-1 Both Djokovic and Nadal have one win each
Cincinnati Djokovic 2 - 0 = Total domination in Cincy

Overall H2H on NA HC = Djokovic 10, Nadal 4

Yeah, Nadal really owns Djokovic there....



Djokovic beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2018 without his trusted BH DTL shot, which didn't come back until USO 2018, so even without his best shot, he beat in form Nadal, good luck to Nadal to try to beat Djokovic when that BH DTL is firing.

Time will tell, you are right, but the numbers above show who wins when they step onto HC and Grass. And you shouldn't say it's shame that it's clay next, at least Nadal can beat Djokovic there. So all good. :)
No fella you getting this all wrong. I have said there is no evidence that Djokovic can beat Nadal outside Australia. You were the one who brought up since 2013 so where has Miami come into it lol. When Djokovic was in Canada recently Nadal won. WheN Djokovic won cinci Nadal was resting.
Djokovic failed to turn up in 2019 due to a claimed injury. Crowd thought he faked but i shall give benefit of the doubt. 2017 by your own analysis Djokovic did not bother turning up given your 2014 remark. 2015 2016 Nadal worse years on tour so not sure how you equate that to his level of past 4 years.
So by your own metric since 2013 they have met once in North america in Nadals worse year on tour. Australia is where you base your evidence. Respetfully Australia is irrelevant to US Open Series as has been proven for decades now. Agassi v Sampras another example.
Wimbledon indoors and outdoors is chalk and cheese. I would back Nadal if it was hot on grass in later rounds as court would be dusty.
Clay we can forget. Djokovic is not even close so.we can ignore clay.
Time will tell like i say. I am confident in the Nadal v djokovic match up outside australia. You have no idea what a confidence boost FO 2020 was given all the negativity regarding conditions.
Djokovic is favourite for W i accept. He is 3rd for USO i would say. Nadal and thiem the 2 last champions there so they would be favourites although Thiem may be on the decline. Time will tell.
However the fact is next Major is FO. Nadal likely, in fact almost certain to get 21 Majors. Right now the worry is Covid as i want Roland Garros open to fans. No way i am missing h21ory.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
It destroyed your point I'm afraid, and if your only reply is that I contradicted myself numerous times and you cannot provide me with a single one of those numerous contradictions and explain why, then I will move onto more engaging convos and bid you farewell. (y)
Lmao. You did not at all. You just went off on a tangent. Nadal and Djokovic have met once in north america since 2013 the arbitary date you have picked as a reference point.
But the next Major is clay. Clay the only surface that is relevant now until July. Perhaps we revisit this in July?
 

SonnyT

Legend
Off clay in majors, the next geners are much more of threat to Nadal than Djokovic. Even if Nadal wins the first 2 sets, there's a decent chance the match is going five. Recent evidence is '19 USO against Med, and '21 AO against Tsisipas.

If Djokovic splits the first 2 sets with any next-gener, he probably is going to close it out.
 

daphne

Hall of Fame
In your dreams. Djokovic will not pass from receiving a bagel and a straigth sets loss to suddenly defeat Nadal who has never lost a RG final. The AO is not RG. Different conditions. Djokovic is the AO king, Nadal is the RG king.

2912037-59853748-2560-1440.jpg
Screenshot taken. I will rub it in and ensure you feel it.
 
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