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NadalAgassi
Guest
Simple question. Will Djokovic win the French next year and complete his career slam. Yes or no.
DragonBlaze
Hall of Fame
Crap I didn't even think about that. Well isn't 2012 going to be interesting?
Let's see if Fed/Nadal can stop Djoker from accomplishing what they couldn't.
vernonbc
Legend
Yup. Me too. Watching him play Davis Cup on clay was like watching a different player. He was home, and he was comfortable and dominating and clearly superior. He played marvelously. He'll do well on his beloved clay again next year too.
DragonBlaze
Hall of Fame
What do you guys think Novak would rather have? A non calender year Grand Slam (so only 2 slams next year but those 2 being AO and FO)? Or another 3 slam year (but missing out on either AO or FO)?
Which would boost his legacy more?
Which would boost his legacy more?
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NadalAgassi
Guest
I think he will do it. Nadal is on decline on clay and having already cemented himself the clay court GOAT will be looking more focused on improving further and winning more on the other surfaces. He might win another French at some point, but not next year. Djokovic also will beat Nadal on any surface if they meet at the moment, and there is nobody else to take Djokovic out at next years French. The clay field is very weak, and Federer isnt going to pull another miracle as a 30 year old on his worst surface.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Djoker will have a good chance to win since Nadal playing his utmost best on clay is really no match for Djoker 2.0 as was proven earlier this year.
vernonbc
Legend
Rafa's in decline on clay?????? Bwahahaha!! His record on clay this year is 28-2. Yeah, he's going downhill in a hurry. :roll:
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NadalAgassi
Guest
He nearly lost to Isner at the French and he nearly lost in one of the other events to some guy outside the top 100. Djokovic beat him easily the two matches they had on clay last year, more easily than he beat him on other surfaces which is telling in itself. All players go into decline on clay if they have been on top on it as long as Nadal has. Nobody plays their best tennis on clay for 12 years, especialy a grinding baseliner.
vernonbc
Legend
Oh please. Yes he struggled for two sets against Isner but then played what Isner called the best tennis he's ever seen in his life to win the last two. He had a tough time in his first match in Rome because he had a bad virus which, thankfully, he recovered from relatively quickly. It's not a sign he's declining on clay. He looked marvelous in his two DC matches on clay and soundly whomped two very good players. Rafa's doing just fine.
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
Ohh wow! How did that happen? I was getting so tired of hearing the word "****". Ohh and I'd started developing a dislike for Dijana Djokovic for no fault of hers - just because I kept getting a headache seeing DFTW's comments alongside her picture.
Fedex
Legend
I would guess Djokovic will do it.
His defense and consistency are so good that gives him the edge.
vernonbc
Legend
LOL
Absolutely right. The demands and responsibilities on the #1 are immense. I wouldn't have guessed how tough it was but I follow Rafa very closely so I saw all the interviews and photo ops and fan functions and sponsor demands there were. It's a testament to both Rafa and Roger how well they handled the pressures. We'll see if Djokovic can measure up to their stellar standards.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
I guess we will see next year. Isner hardly ever wins matches on clay, and as a result has hardly played any decent, let alone great clay courters, so he wouldnt be a good judge. It is probably the best tennis he has ever seen on clay which isnt saying much when he is used to playing fellow scrub American clay courters in little U.S clay events. All I knows is the Nadal of old would never be playing 5 sets with Isner on clay.
Fedex
Legend
With Isner's serve you could end up playing 20 sets.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Even a crappy Nadal was breaking Isner in the last 2 sets so it wasnt just his serve. Isners serve is not unbreakable on clay, pretty much nobodies other than maybe Karlovics sometimes is.
Fedex
Legend
Clay isn't that slow surely, and with faster balls now, that it enables you to return balls smashed down the lines by 6 foot 9 inch giants.
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Clarky21
Banned
Yes he will. The only guy that can beat him ain't getting any younger and has become a little bit of a headcase,and Nadal is in major decline,and won't come anywhere near beating him should he even make the final. Murray might be able to do something against Cvac,but I highly doubt he will. At least not on clay.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Never beaten a top 20 player at Roland Garros. NO!
I think Djokovic would rather win another three slams year to add to his legacy, regardless of the order. But in the minds of some fans, of course the "Nole Slam," (WB,USO,AUS,RG) slightly different from the "Serena Slam," would be greater for his legacy due to Federer and Nadal failing to do it.
Fedalfan
Semi-Pro
Is this true?
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Paul Henri Mathieu ranked in the 20 at the 2008 French open.
Richard Gasquet ranked in the top 15 at the 2011 French open.
I think he will win the Jokerslam next year by having AO and French. This year was his best chance and had he beaten Fed in French, we would have had a CYGS 2011. Federer's chance was in 2009 where he blew the AO with Rafa and then took it easy with Delpo. He must be kicking himself even now. Nadal never had it so close though he took three in 2010.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Yeah first it was Novak can't beat Nadal on clay, then he can't beat him on real clay at Rome, now it's yeah but clay at RG is way different, can't beat him there...
Nadal had a hard enough time this year against Isner and even a past it Federer. Novak probably would have beaten him this year, I don't care what sort of clay it is.
Next year however is a different story, I can't decide until I see the clay warm up masters next year, but I feel Novak is the favourite at this point and I think he'll win it in the next 3 years barring some weird turn of events.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
That's incorrect. Djokovic has beaten 3 top-20 players at the French Open.
In 2006, Djokovic beat Gonzalez (world number 9)
In 2008, Djokovic beat Mathieu (world number 19)
In 2011, Djokovic beat Gasquet (world number 16)
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Definitely. Nadal is done winning slams. Federer will be too old to beat Djokovic.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
You've been proved wrong but also Nadal had never beaten a seeded player at the US Open til about 2008 or 2009. He ended up winning the title in 2010
vernonbc
Legend
Snort. That's funny. Rafa beat the #5, the #4, and the #3 in this year's FO alone. But he'll probably never win another one since he's gone downhill so drastically.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
RG is not some 'special clay'. It is a fast clay compared to Davis Cup clay Nadal has been dominating on.
RG played unusually fast this year due to lack of rain/inadequate watering of courts, and the new smaller, harder, faster bouncing Babolat balls. Why do you think a hobbling Andy Murray made the semis and had so many break chances against Nadal and why Federer steamrolled everyone and beat GOAT-mode Djokovic and conjured up one of his best matches on clay yet with Nadal? Isner nearly severing Nadal in the first round would not happen on a normal clay surface.
RG played unusually fast this year due to lack of rain/inadequate watering of courts, and the new smaller, harder, faster bouncing Babolat balls. Why do you think a hobbling Andy Murray made the semis and had so many break chances against Nadal and why Federer steamrolled everyone and beat GOAT-mode Djokovic and conjured up one of his best matches on clay yet with Nadal? Isner nearly severing Nadal in the first round would not happen on a normal clay surface.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Snort. That's funny. Rafa beat the #5, the #4, and the #3 in this year's FO alone. But he'll probably never win another one since he's gone downhill so drastically.
He's still better on clay than 99% of players... but there's one guy who outplayed him on clay this year and if he meets him and they play like they did this year, Novak is probably winning. For a while Federer was better than 99% of players on clay but it didn't matter cos one guy was better than him all the time. Who's knows what will happen next year, but it's a possibility. If Nadal plays better though and Novak dops his level Nadal could be winning again, any lead up matches may be crucial. But next year Nadal may not be favourite, it will probably be the year where the final is the hardest to call for people if it's Nadal vs Djokovic
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vernonbc
Legend
Gee, Rafa must be a pretty good clay player, no? He's won fast clay RG an historical 6 times and has never lost a slow clay DC. Is there any kind of clay that can confuddle him?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Very bold words when Nadal has lost just 1 best of 5 sets clay-court match in his life.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Gee, Rafa must be a pretty good clay player, no? He's won fast clay RG an historical 6 times and has never lost a slow clay DC. Is there any kind of clay that can confuddle him?
No. Clay is not an issue. Who he's playing is an issue- which is ironically what Federer had to deal with on clay! People asked him why clay was a problem and he said "I don't have a problem with clay, the problem is with playing Nadal" At the moment Nadal has a problem playing Djokovic. I don't think Nadal was great on clay this season but he can still beat most of the tour playing below his best. Next year will be interesting, but Djokovic is the only guy who can hang with Nadal on clay so that matchup will be a huge one.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Gee, Rafa must be a pretty good clay player, no? He's won fast clay RG an historical 6 times and has never lost a slow clay DC. Is there any kind of clay that can confuddle him?
That's my point. Nadal managed to win RG in 2011 despite the unusually fast circumstances (surface + ball). That's why fast court players performed unusually well there compared to usual. If RG returns to normal, Nadal should be fine. I'd still say he is the favourite, but there is a long way to go until then, and the face of tennis can change rapidly. Novak may drop off a cliff a la McEnroe, although I hope that does not happen.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
McEnroe's 1985 was a gradual decline, not a sharp drop. He still won some tournaments almost as dominant as he had been in 1984, but he didn't beat Lendl in Forest Hills or the World Team Cup (as he had in 1984) and he lost to intelligent Wilander in the French Open semi finals and big serving Curren in the Wimbledon quarter finals. Then came that 1985 US Open loss to Lendl, and it started unravelling for McEnroe after that, reaching a nadir in January 1986 when he decided to take a 6 month break following a loss to Brad Gilbert. While McEnroe was on that sabbatical, the game was changing, becoming more power orientated with the likes of Lendl and Becker.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
There is very little depth in the mens game in this era and Federer, Nadal, and now Djokovic all have capatilized on it. No hopers like Berdych, Robredo, Schuettler, Grosjean, Verdasco who everyone knows have no chance of ever winning a major title being top 10 regulars for many years, while very good players without the mental fortitude to take the next step like Ferrer, Nalbandian, Murray, Davydenko, as top 5 regulars for years. So no wonder the few excellent players that exist in this era have such an easy time dominating and racking up records and achievemetns.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Good thread OP. Thanks for posting.
If it's Nadal that Djokovic faces in the F.O final, then I believe he would win his maiden Roland Garros and complete the career slam.
The Nadal-Djoko matchup is worse for Nadal on clay which is borne out by the results this year also. In fact, Rafa would have his chances of beating Djoko on grass and even in the UsOpen (assuming Nadal improves), but on clay the lack of penetration on his shots combined with Djoko's superior defense makes a win for Nadal unlikely.
All that said, I would like to see someone different. I know it's hoping against hope, but I hope maybe Delpo can get the title? He can certainly beat Djokovic if he's at his A game..
If it's Nadal that Djokovic faces in the F.O final, then I believe he would win his maiden Roland Garros and complete the career slam.
The Nadal-Djoko matchup is worse for Nadal on clay which is borne out by the results this year also. In fact, Rafa would have his chances of beating Djoko on grass and even in the UsOpen (assuming Nadal improves), but on clay the lack of penetration on his shots combined with Djoko's superior defense makes a win for Nadal unlikely.
All that said, I would like to see someone different. I know it's hoping against hope, but I hope maybe Delpo can get the title? He can certainly beat Djokovic if he's at his A game..
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
LOL. This is not true at all. You are overblowing this "fast ball" situation way out of proportion. The examples you gave are exaggerated beyond belief. Where were these fast balls when Andy gave Nadal a hell of a fight at Monte Carlo and then almost beat "God-Mode" Djokovic in Rome? It is a fact that Andy Murray took his clay-court tennis to a new level in 2011. However, even with his new found form Murray should have lost to Troicki and only managed to escape because of Troicki's penchant for choking. Murray getting break points on Nadal does not mean much. Murray played his heart out against Nadal at Monte Carlo '09 and ended up going down in straight sets regardless.
Federer steamrolling his early round opponents is hardly something that is unusual even at the RG. Federer beat Djokovic because he has the game to do so. Has the US Open been sped up simply because Federer had match points on God Mode Djokovic?
In 2006, it took Nadal almost 5 hours to beat Paul-Henri Mathieu in a 4 set match. Does that mean that the 2006 RG was not played on a normal clay surface?
It is not about whether the clay is fast or slow. Djokovic beat Nadal on two different clay courts this year. Keep in mind that the match they played in Rome was more similar to those "Normal RG conditions" you are talking about and Djokovic was right at home playing in them. The new balls were only used at RG.
Funny thing is that when Djokovic beat Nadal at Madrid, many Nadal fans refused to give him credit as Madrid is played at a high altitude and the conditions are not reflective of those that are found in Paris. They claimed that Nadal will prove his superiority in Rome, a "normal" clay court.That claim failed miserably.
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