Will fed be the goat if he wins?

Ultra2HolyGrail

Hall of Fame
How can Borg possibly be the GOAT?


Maybe not goat but he is up their with mcenroe as best of their generation. Borg/mac-Sampras/agassi -Fed/nadal

Borg has to be considered greater than mac on all surfaces. Nadal is better on all surfaces. Agassi is better on all surfaces. Their nemesis's are more dominant on faster courts.
 

urban

Legend
A French win will boost his legacy. But there are some important records, which other players have made: the real Grand Slam, the Paris-Wimbledon double. And his head to head with Nadal (and Djoko and Murray this year) is a factor. How can the best of all time have a 2-6 record against someone in majors? How can the best of all time get hammered at his peak 1,3 and Love in a major final by another player?
 

380pistol

Banned
I might not know exact numbers in boxing and exact numbers in basketball. I'm not specialist in these two. Fisrt, I didn't call Jordan, but I did call the name of Casius Clay ( Muhammed Ali). Just determine about which numbers are u talking in boxing? Just give me numbers how many times and how long was Mohammed world champ in heavy weight. If he isn't the first in numbers then FOR ME it will mean that he is not the GOAT.

Coming to tennis it is very simple mathematically. There are 3 criteria around which everybody is talking. JUST notice ALL disputes are around these three: 1 ) number of grand slams 2) number of different slams, are all 4, only 3, only 2 or only 1 type and (3) did he make Grand slam or shortly number of CONSEQUITIVE slams a player wins.

Now I give different mathematical weights to these 3 criteria: IMO 1) is the most important, second is weaker, and third is the least. I'd give coefficients ( weights) as the following: k1 = 0.5, k2 = 0.3, k3 = 0.2. No reason to complicate the task.

As far as Ali. 49-0 > 56-5. So Ali starts behind the 8 ball there. He lost the heavyweight title 3 times (albeit stripped of it the 1st time). No man beat Marciano for the title, and he retired the as the champ. No one held the title longer (and/or for a consecutive stretch) than Marciano. Ho heavyweight defended the title as many times as Marciano (and he never lost a title defense).

So are you gonna tell me Ali is not the greatest???

No you didn't menion Jordan, but I chose him as he is also generally reckognized as the GOAT in his field. And aplltying you theory/premise to his career, will not give him the #1 spot?? Total pts he's 3rd (he has to look over Karl Malone's shoulder's to see Kareen Abdul Jabbar). Pts per game leads Wilt by a hair (30.12 to 30.07). each one scoring titles, but Jordan's singualr best season was 37.1, Wilt went over 40 a game 4-5 times. Jordan ever avg'd double digits in rebounds, Wilt went over 20 a game in a season, and 2nd all time in per game avg. MVP's, MJ has 5, he can go to Kareem's house to what it's like to own 6. If we talk about dominating a game in every aspect, Oscar Robertson from 1961-65 avg'd 30+ pts, 10+ rebs, 10+ asts over a five year span. Jordan can't see that in his dreams. He never avg'd double digits in anthing other than pts. Robertson once led the league in scoring and assists, did Jordan ever finish in the 10 for assists, once??? And Title which is the cue de gras, Russell won more consecutively, 8, than Jordan won period, 6. Oh did I mention that Russell also won 3 more tiles givin 11.... in a 13 yr span??

So is Jordan the GOAT???

Same with Patrick Roy. Do you want the breakdown for him???

As far as tennis it isn't that simple, as it may have more variables, than other sports.
 

babbette

Legend
ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I mean, I feel it since a few years now, to be honest with you. But this year even more extreme. When I walk on the streets or drive in the transportation or I go for dinner, everybody is like, This is your year. You've got todo it.
this is painful especially on the brink of Rafa feeling not too much support from the frenchies.:cry: Almost as if people are celebrating Rafa's demise. Roger vicious barrier is no longer there now he can run with it.:cry: The spaniard is finally brushed aside for the one we really want to win :cry:
I do like Roger but i really can't stand the thought of him finally getting it this way.

Comeon Soderling, you disgusting, *****, comeon :cry:
 

malakas

Banned
what??:confused:
Federer is already goat.
shrug.gif
See avie.
 

harinder

Rookie
Not saying it will be his fault and he will deserve to be the french champion no matter who he plays. But look how long it's taken roger to win the grand slam if he can win it. Nadal only needs the us open and if he can win it in the next 3 years don't you think that's a better achievement? How can federer be the goat when his biggest rival nadal leads head to head 13-7 and has accomplished more than fed when fed was nadals age. ?

i agree he needs to win a few more big matches against nadal but just remember the h2h is misleading. the h2h could be closer if nadal was good enough to make more hardcourt finals in the past. theyve played more than half of their matches on clay where nadal is clearly more dominant.

regarding the timeline. yes nadal has acheived at a quicker rate than federer but its unknown how long he can maintain this level.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
i agree he needs to win a few more big matches against nadal but just remember the h2h is misleading. the h2h could be closer if nadal was good enough to make more hardcourt finals in the past. theyve played more than half of their matches on clay where nadal is clearly more dominant.

regarding the timeline. yes nadal has acheived at a quicker rate than federer but its unknown how long he can maintain this level.

We gotta work with the info we've got right now, and Rafa is at 6 Slams, right now, so no competition there. Who knows if Fed's son, born this summer(if it isn't a daughter of course) isn't the real GOAT.
 

PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame
They say that the hottest brightest stars (suns) burn out the fastest.

Same thing could happen to Nadal's knees before he reaches 70% of Federer's record.
 
D

Deleted member 12045

Guest
Anyway when Federer wins this FO he will better than Sampras ;) you all agree??
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
this is painful especially on the brink of Rafa feeling not too much support from the frenchies.:cry: Almost as if people are celebrating Rafa's demise. Roger vicious barrier is no longer there now he can run with it.:cry: The spaniard is finally brushed aside for the one we really want to win :cry:
I do like Roger but i really can't stand the thought of him finally getting it this way.

Comeon Soderling, you disgusting, *****, comeon :cry:

Are you seriously supporting Soderling now?

You should take comfort in the fact that they didn't support Rafa BECAUSE they want Federer to win. They've got nothing against Rafael that means. They just want Federer to make history. If that's the reason than Rafael Nadal can expect a lot more support next year if Federer does it now.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
A French win will boost his legacy. But there are some important records, which other players have made: the real Grand Slam, the Paris-Wimbledon double. And his head to head with Nadal (and Djoko and Murray this year) is a factor. How can the best of all time have a 2-6 record against someone in majors? How can the best of all time get hammered at his peak 1,3 and Love in a major final by another player?


Interesting,,,,,, so this means that Sampras isn't GOAT because he has a losing record to Hewitt, Safin and Edberg in Majors?? :roll:
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
this is painful especially on the brink of Rafa feeling not too much support from the frenchies.:cry: Almost as if people are celebrating Rafa's demise. Roger vicious barrier is no longer there now he can run with it.:cry: The spaniard is finally brushed aside for the one we really want to win :cry:
I do like Roger but i really can't stand the thought of him finally getting it this way.

Comeon Soderling, you disgusting, *****, comeon :cry:


LMAO. Pathetic.
 
Interesting,,,,,, so this means that Sampras isn't GOAT because he has a losing record to Hewitt, Safin and Edberg in Majors?? :roll:

It's the sheer QUANTITY of slam final losses to 1 player that counts against Federer. 5 grand slam final losses to Nadal!!!:shock:
 

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
yes you can see pure class the way he treated the ball boys.

But you knew who he was he did not pretend to be something that he was not. Fed acts like he is all nice but if you observe him at events from a distance when the camera's etc. are not focused on him you will see a different person entirely. He is not what he appears.
 
You should take comfort in the fact that they didn't support Rafa BECAUSE they want Federer to win. They've got nothing against Rafael that means. They just want Federer to make history. If that's the reason than Rafael Nadal can expect a lot more support next year if Federer does it now.

"Support" is one thing, "respect" is another.

People support whoever they want so if they prefer Fed to take the title to Nadal then they have every right to do so.

However, Nadal is the 4 times champion so he deserves their "respect" if not their support. The fact that they showed him no respect just revealed how classless and mean the French crowd actually is. There's no excuse for such a disgraceful display of rudeness towards a great champion.

Shame on you Frenchies.

As for the OP, do YOU even need the others opinion to judge who's YOUR GOAT?
 

malakas

Banned
But you knew who he was he did not pretend to be something that he was not. Fed acts like he is all nice but if you observe him at events from a distance when the camera's etc. are not focused on him you will see a different person entirely. He is not what he appears.

Agassi didn't pretend???The guy who said image is everything???This is one of the most ridiculous things to say.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
But you knew who he was he did not pretend to be something that he was not. Fed acts like he is all nice but if you observe him at events from a distance when the camera's etc. are not focused on him you will see a different person entirely. He is not what he appears.


I've seen (first hand) Federer (in person),, at the Sony and he is one of, if not the, nicest player towards fans. Not only did he go up the entire fence area along side the courts signing hundreds of autographs, but when he left, and arrived at the players area (a fenced in area), he again went along side the entire fenced area signing hundreds of more autographs.

I witnessed him doing this in 2008, and again this year (both days I was there.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

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BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
If I were putting them in order I would actually put him at #2. A far cry better and classier than this Federer guy.
Yeah, you obviously have never seen Agassi play live in person.

I was at courtside during his match against Fish when he blatantly called Fish a "f**king a**hole" in the middle of the match for no reason, loud enough for almost everyone in the lower sections to hear.

Oh, and blowing the snot out of your nose right onto the court all the time is a real classy move. :-?
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
It's the sheer QUANTITY of slam final losses to 1 player that counts against Federer. 5 grand slam final losses to Nadal!!!:shock:

3 of the 5 on the surface where Nadal is arguably the greatest player of all time. :shock::shock::shock:
In fact 9 of Nadal's 13 wins over Federer are on clay.
Throw out the clay court matches, compare their records, and then get back to me.
 
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LuckyR

Legend
Where in my post does it say there has to be a GOAT? Didn't I essentially say in the last sentence that no one has a perfect resume? All I'm saying is that, yes, Federer's resume is a little better than Pete's, because he is good on all surfaces. It's simply a fact that Federer is better than Sampras was on clay. If he gets to 14 slams, he has a better resume.

I don't really get your point that Pete's being worse doesn't make Fed's better, so perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree. Both were/are wonderful tennis talents. I don't think they can be compared with the exception of numbers, because they were/are very different. Most of the numbers seem to fall in Federer's favor.

Well, you said: "...compared to whom?", as if there had to be another GOAT candidate. Since there doesn't have to be one IMO, Fed (or anyone else) can be compared to the perfect resume' that both of us agree Fed doesn't have.

As to the reference to Pete, you brought Sampras up in the conversation, not me. Many, many people feel there are the top two candidates for GOAT, so I understand why they would be brought up together. But comparing the two side by side only helps evaluate Fed for GOAT if you assume one of them must be the GOAT (and since I don't think there even has to be one, I reject that view).
 

380pistol

Banned
3 of the 5 on the surface where Nadal is arguably the greatest player of all time. :shock::shock::shock:
In fact 9 of Nadal's 13 wins over Federer are on clay.
Throw out the clay court matches, compare their records, and then get back to me.


CLAY -Nadal owns Fed (and everyone he's played).

HARDCOURTS (Outdoor) - Nadal leads 3-1. His only loss was when he choked away 6-2,7-6,4-1 lead.

GRASS - 1st match... Nadal was playing in the 4th grasscourt tourney of his life, while Federer was going for his 4th Wimbledon title. Rafa's previous grass experience incl. a 2nd rd loss and a withdrawl from queens a week prior. Still Federer was aided by 3 unforced errors and a double fault when Nadal served for the 2nd set at 5-4.

2nd match.... Nadal playing what... his 5th straight day?? Outplayed Federer, and choked away 4break pts in 5th set.

3rd match... well we know what happened.

INDOOR - 2 matches in Shanghai, this is the only surface where Roger has actually out played Nadal.

Anything else??
 

380pistol

Banned
I've seen (first hand) Federer (in person),, at the Sony and he is one of, if not the, nicest player towards fans. Not only did he go up the entire fence area along side the courts signing hundreds of autographs, but when he left, and arrived at the players area (a fenced in area), he again went along side the entire fenced area signing hundreds of more autographs.

I witnessed him doing this in 2008, and again this year (both days I was there.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

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So this explains your man crush.... or should I just say "crush"???
 

urban

Legend
A real Grand Slam should be the same as all four won in a career? Ask Federer or Nadal, which one is easier to do.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
CLAY -Nadal owns Fed (and everyone he's played).

HARDCOURTS (Outdoor) - Nadal leads 3-1. His only loss was when he choked away 6-2,7-6,4-1 lead.

GRASS - 1st match... Nadal was playing in the 4th grasscourt tourney of his life, while Federer was going for his 4th Wimbledon title. Rafa's previous grass experience incl. a 2nd rd loss and a withdrawl from queens a week prior. Still Federer was aided by 3 unforced errors and a double fault when Nadal served for the 2nd set at 5-4.

2nd match.... Nadal playing what... his 5th straight day?? Outplayed Federer, and choked away 4break pts in 5th set.

3rd match... well we know what happened.

INDOOR - 2 matches in Shanghai, this is the only surface where Roger has actually out played Nadal.

Anything else??

since you insist on analyzing the matches, as opposed to only giving the result as 5-4 in fed's favor, let's look at some of the results on clay:

rome 2006 final: fed had 2 championship pts, and choked them away

RG 2006: won the 1st set 6-1 and was leading with a break @ 1-0, and serving at 40-0, only to choke that set and lose 6-1 and eventually the match

MC 2008: was leading 5-1 in the first set only to lose 7-5, and blew a similar lead in the second

hamburg 2008: was leading in the first, second and third sets only to choke and lose.

The only time nadal convincingly beat Fed on clay was in RG 2008. Their clay record could have easily been 6-5 in favor of Fed. How does this sound?


for the record, I don't like to analyze "ifs" and "buts", but I had to undertake this exercise to shut those who insist on going out of their way to put down Fed's accomplishments (a tad insecure, perhaps ?)

Fact: Nadal does have a massive winning record over Fed on clay, and Fed does have a winning record over nadal outside of clay. No amount of ifs and buts will change that.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
CLAY -Nadal owns Fed (and everyone he's played).

HARDCOURTS (Outdoor) - Nadal leads 3-1. His only loss was when he choked away 6-2,7-6,4-1 lead.

GRASS - 1st match... Nadal was playing in the 4th grasscourt tourney of his life, while Federer was going for his 4th Wimbledon title. Rafa's previous grass experience incl. a 2nd rd loss and a withdrawl from queens a week prior. Still Federer was aided by 3 unforced errors and a double fault when Nadal served for the 2nd set at 5-4.

2nd match.... Nadal playing what... his 5th straight day?? Outplayed Federer, and choked away 4break pts in 5th set.

3rd match... well we know what happened.

INDOOR - 2 matches in Shanghai, this is the only surface where Roger has actually out played Nadal.

Anything else??


Love the way you down play all of Fed wins. Nice. :roll:

For the record, my favorite player is Sampras (have his autograph too, so I guess like you we both have "man crushes on him as well"), and fact is Fed's career when/if he gets to 14 slams surpasses Pete's.

Lastly, as I said before, between the lines, I've yet to see a player who is better than federer, regardless of the achievements.


One more thing>>>> all of nadal's victories over fed are because fed choked. (two could use the stupid logic you are applying).
 
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380pistol

Banned
since you insist on analyzing the matches, as opposed to only giving the result as 5-4 in fed's favor, let's look at some of the results on clay:

rome 2006 final: fed had 2 championship pts, and choked them away

RG 2006: won the 1st set 6-1 and was leading with a break @ 1-0, and serving at 40-0, only to choke that set and lose 6-1 and eventually the match

MC 2008: was leading 5-1 in the first set only to lose 7-5, and blew a similar lead in the second

hamburg 2008: was leading in the first, second and third sets only to choke and lose.

The only time nadal convincingly beat Fed on clay was in RG 2008. Their clay record could have easily been 6-5 in favor of Fed. How does this sound?


for the record, I don't like to analyze "ifs" and "buts", but I had to undertake this exercise to shut those who insist on going out of their way to put down Fed's accomplishments (a tad insecure, perhaps ?)

Fact: Nadal does have a massive winning record over Fed on clay, and Fed does have a winning record over nadal outside of clay. No amount of ifs and buts will change that.

First of all the poster said take out the clay matches.

2006 French Final - Nadal outplayed for the last 3 sets, despite plaing a bad 1st set. Yes Fed should have held early in the 2nd, but what will explain the winners and 28 unforced errors on his backhand wing??

2008 Monte Carlo & Hamburg - Fed did blow lead, don't recall saying he didn't.

Their clay record could easily be 6-5. Nadal could easily be a 3 time Wimbledon champ, so what's your point?? So before you respond to me, respond to who (and what) my post was in response too. The person said take out clay and get back to him..... a way to put down Nadal's acheivements...insecure much??

Nadal leads on cly, and outdoor hard. No reasoning will change that. And Federer has a very narrow lead on grass, seeing he was outplayed in 2 of the 3 matches on grass.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
First of all the poster said take out the clay matches.

2006 French Final - Nadal outplayed for the last 3 sets, despite plaing a bad 1st set. Yes Fed should have held early in the 2nd, but what will explain the winners and 28 unforced errors on his backhand wing??

2008 Monte Carlo & Hamburg - Fed did blow lead, don't recall saying he didn't.

Their clay record could easily be 6-5. Nadal could easily be a 3 time Wimbledon champ, so what's your point?? So before you respond to me, respond to who (and what) my post was in response too. The person said take out clay and get back to him..... a way to put down Nadal's acheivements...insecure much??

Nadal leads on cly, and outdoor hard. No reasoning will change that. And Federer has a very narrow lead on grass, seeing he was outplayed in 2 of the 3 matches on grass.

So, pray tell me what your intention was in analyzing how "close" each of the matches were outside of clay? If you were unbiased, you would've also pointed out the close matches on clay; instead you said nadal "owns" fed on clay. It is a fact that outside of clay, the h2h is in Fed's favor (as of today). No amount of "woulda" and "shoulda"s won't change that.
 

380pistol

Banned
Love the way you down play all of Fed wins. Nice. :roll:

For the record, my favorite player is Sampras (have his autograph too, so I guess like you we both have "man crushes on him as well"), and fact is Fed's career when/if he gets to 14 slams surpasses Pete's.

Lastly, as I said before, between the lines, I've yet to see a player who is better than federer, regardless of the achievements.

Play down fed's wins. Why cuz i tell it like it is, and you tell it how it might be, or how you want it to be.

When the Federphiles and the nadal idiots were/are going at it, I've simply said Nadal will get the better of Roger regardless. It has nothing to with abiliy, rather quality of ability, but it's match u thing. On only 2 or 3 understood that.

How about nadal wasn't in his prime when Fed.... I call a spade a spade, it is what it is.

"Man crush", never met Pete have no desire to. Don't go to any tourney where he plays and wait to get his autograph, sadly you can't say the same.

Fed's #'s may pas Pete's and....??? There more to it, but I let Federphiles talk wreckless cuz it's quite funny to watch.

And why do you keep telling me you a Sampras fan?? What is this the umpteenth time??? What ever gave you the impression I give a rat's ass what you think or who you like??? Half the time you respond with stupidness to my posts, I don't even bother to bust back.

And you've yet to see player "better than Federer regardless of acheivements" (too easy, to ****ing easy).... but why would I care what you saw with your Stevie Wonder vision???
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
"Support" is one thing, "respect" is another.

People support whoever they want so if they prefer Fed to take the title to Nadal then they have every right to do so.

However, Nadal is the 4 times champion so he deserves their "respect" if not their support. The fact that they showed him no respect just revealed how classless and mean the French crowd actually is. There's no excuse for such a disgraceful display of rudeness towards a great champion.

Shame on you Frenchies.

As for the OP, do YOU even need the others opinion to judge who's YOUR GOAT?
I think cheering for the opponent isn't a lack of respect. It's giving the opponent a lot of support. If I was at any tennismatch and it was getting tense, I would never be able to hold myself back cheering UE's from an opponent. That's not classless, that's being tense. Don't you cheer unforced errors in front of your TV? I know I do.. The crowd's just human. They should't cheer a double fault, but other than that, it's okay.

I'm not a fan of the French crowd, but people here overreact a lot. They compare the support for Nadal to the support for Federer, and that's not the way it's gonna work.
 

380pistol

Banned
So, pray tell me what your intention was in analyzing how "close" each of the matches were outside of clay? If you were unbiased, you would've also pointed out the close matches on clay; instead you said nadal "owns" fed on clay. It is a fact that outside of clay, the h2h is in Fed's favor (as of today). No amount of "woulda" and "shoulda"s won't change that.

Let me sum it up for you......

3 of the 5 on the surface where Nadal is arguably the greatest player of all time. :shock::shock::shock:
In fact 9 of Nadal's 13 wins over Federer are on clay.
Throw out the clay court matches, compare their records, and then get back to me.

...that's what my post was in response to. I even explained this to you in my previous you, but obviously you didn't read what I said. That's why!!!!!!!!
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Let me sum it up for you......



...that's what my post was in response to. I even explained this to you in my previous you, but obviously you didn't read what I said. That's why!!!!!!!!

the poster said "compare" the records; not analyze the matches. The answer is 5-4. That is comparing the records. You conveniently only analyzed the non-clay matches, yet concluded that Nadal "owns" federer on clay courts without any analysis of the clay matches. As Drakulie rightly pointed out, way to put down fed's achievements :???:.
 

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
I've seen (first hand) Federer (in person),, at the Sony and he is one of, if not the, nicest player towards fans. Not only did he go up the entire fence area along side the courts signing hundreds of autographs, but when he left, and arrived at the players area (a fenced in area), he again went along side the entire fenced area signing hundreds of more autographs.

I witnessed him doing this in 2008, and again this year (both days I was there.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

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Well I cannot dispell this but I have witnessed the opposite end of that at last years IW tourney as well as Cincy tourney. First hand in person. I wouldn't take an autograph from him if he paid me. Sorry different times create different views of the same person.
 

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
So neither Federer or Sampras are in the top 5?

Take your meds.

Nope neither deserve to be top 5 IMO. That said it is just that my opinion. We all have one which is why the concept of a GOAT is dumb. Best of an era sure but there is just no one GOAT period.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Play down fed's wins. Why cuz i tell it like it is, and you tell it how it might be, or how you want it to be.

When the Federphiles and the nadal idiots were/are going at it, I've simply said Nadal will get the better of Roger regardless. It has nothing to with abiliy, rather quality of ability, but it's match u thing. On only 2 or 3 understood that.

How about nadal wasn't in his prime when Fed.... I call a spade a spade, it is what it is.

"Man crush", never met Pete have no desire to. Don't go to any tourney where he plays and wait to get his autograph, sadly you can't say the same.

Fed's #'s may pas Pete's and....??? There more to it, but I let Federphiles talk wreckless cuz it's quite funny to watch.

And why do you keep telling me you a Sampras fan?? What is this the umpteenth time??? What ever gave you the impression I give a rat's ass what you think or who you like??? Half the time you respond with stupidness to my posts, I don't even bother to bust back.

And you've yet to see player "better than Federer regardless of acheivements" (too easy, to ****ing easy).... but why would I care what you saw with your Stevie Wonder vision???

Why so upset. ????
 

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
You wouldn't agree that Federer is the GOAT even if he won 100 Grand Slams. :roll:

Give it up, dude.

You are right. the concept of one GOAT is dumb. He may be the best of his time but there is no way there is one GOAT no matter who people think it is.
 

380pistol

Banned
Why so upset. ????

Not upset, just don't like you and have no point stating it.
Don't care for your opinion, and have no problem stating it.
Am not one of these posters, so if you come at me sideways I will take you outta the park like Pujols, and you what??? I have no problem stating it!!!!

Any other questions???
 

380pistol

Banned
the poster said "compare" the records; not analyze the matches. The answer is 5-4. That is comparing the records. You conveniently only analyzed the non-clay matches, yet concluded that Nadal "owns" federer on clay courts without any analysis of the clay matches. As Drakulie rightly pointed out, way to put down fed's achievements :???:.


Shut up will you. What did I say about matches between the 2 in Monte Carlo and Hamburg??? Tell me???

And last I checked 9-2 is a lot different from 5-4. And Nadal is still ahead 3-1 on outdoor hardcourts is he not??? Is that not a fact?? Fed leads 2-1 on grass, didn;t his 1st victory come vs Nadal who was in his 4th grass tourney of life... is that not a fact???
 
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