Will Rafa ever win another title

I’m just enjoying every match and I’m glad he’s out there fighting. Yes the end is near but it’s shocking we had to wait till he was this old to say it. Legendary king :D
 
mike danny said:
Novak not playing them doesn't make them irrelevant. The arrogance of some Djokovic fans.

Besides, Fed doesn't go out of his way to play Mickey Mouse events either. He plays evens he's always played.
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Never claimed they are irrelevant. And I agree Fed didn’t seek to maximize smaller events. I was addressing the point made by others that Novak should aim to win more tournaments than Fed. I’m pointing out that Novak has no interest in winning smaller tournaments just for the sake of it
 
GabeT said:
Never claimed they are irrelevant. And I agree Fed didn’t seek to maximize smaller events. I was addressing the point made by others that Novak should aim to win more tournaments than Fed. I’m pointing out that Novak has no interest in winning smaller tournaments just for the sake of it
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Oh, definitely, he has no business playing more smaller tournaments just for something that isn't even Fed's record anyway.
 
The Blond Blur said:
I think he can. This was his first tournament back in a while and he’s barely played this year. He just wasted way too much energy getting to the F and had nothing left in the tank.
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Nadal would be my pick for the USO and Olympics but for Alcaraz and Sinner.
The irony today is the fanatical Djokovic fanbase on X (to be fair on here most are fine) are saying Nadal is done, yet when Novak lost to Nardi ( a far lesser player than Borges) at IW, a far more prestigious event, they were saying that at 37 all that mattered was Slams and the Olympics. Yet these same fans seem to think that for Nadal a 250 event a week before arguably the biggest tennis event on the calendar this year is the absolute litmus test event and priority.
The reality is the fat Nadal played 4 hours the other day then won his next match and played today back to back without any health issues means he is again a factor to win big titles. He will never be a favourite anymore like in the past as frankly Alcaraz and Sinner are now the top 2 by a significant margin and if healthy will win the big events in all likelihood. But if they get ill (like Sinner did at W) or pick up an injury, at a slam or Olympics id back Rafa against anyone. At 250 500 and 1000 level i think he is finished. At those levels his fires just will never burn enough anymore no matter how hard he wants to ignite them. The same applies to Djokovic as well.
 
Hitman said:
There is a BIG difference between the Nadal we saw post his Wimbledon 2022 injury and after it. Whatever took place in that Fritz match spelled doom for him.

He can never get back to any level or form that resembles him pre injury.

I honestly think this is as good as it gets out there for him, he pushed as hard as possible, and barely made the final.
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Think you are misreading things here. Rafa was not playing to win the title, if he did it was a bonus. He was playing for minutes on court, which he got.
There were signs his game is still there. The consistency isnt, but a 250 event isnt going to get that laser focus from him, it just wont ever happen. Djokovic looked far worse in Indian Wells for example.
Nadal has confidence again in his body. That is huge for him. I would now take Rafa in big matches which will get his focus zoned in against anyone bar Alcaraz and Sinner. Same with Djokovic.
The problem for both and to be fair it may be this is the point you are making, is that the reality is both are ripe now to be utterly shellacked by Alcaraz and Sinner as those young guys just do everything way better and a lot harder and move a lot better. The gulf between say Zverev, Medvedev Tsitsipas and Rublev to Alcaraz and Sinner is absolutely enormous and while i think Nadal (and Djokovic) can in a big match with loads of pressure compete and beat the guys mentioned above, i simply fear both getting utterly hammered by Alcaraz and Sinner.
 
Regarding the op question, nope.

Rafa’s place in history is etched in stone. If he never plays another pro match…or he plays for years and loses, it matters not. He has been a great champion and an even greater person. He is a great interview, and an ambassador to all sports.

It will be a sad day when he makes it official.
 
messiahrobins said:
Think you are misreading things here. Rafa was not playing to win the title, if he did it was a bonus. He was playing for minutes on court, which he got.
There were signs his game is still there. The consistency isnt, but a 250 event isnt going to get that laser focus from him, it just wont ever happen. Djokovic looked far worse in Indian Wells for example.
Nadal has confidence again in his body. That is huge for him. I would now take Rafa in big matches which will get his focus zoned in against anyone bar Alcaraz and Sinner. Same with Djokovic.
The problem for both and to be fair it may be this is the point you are making, is that the reality is both are ripe now to be utterly shellacked by Alcaraz and Sinner as those young guys just do everything way better and a lot harder and move a lot better. The gulf between say Zverev, Medvedev Tsitsipas and Rublev to Alcaraz and Sinner is absolutely enormous and while i think Nadal (and Djokovic) can in a big match with loads of pressure compete and beat the guys mentioned above, i simply fear both getting utterly hammered by Alcaraz and Sinner.
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You've been spot on about Nadal this season, after Nadal's recent withdrawl from USO, what are your thoughts about his next steps and potential title win chances?
 
Should've played this tournament

images
 
Hitman said:
Yep, this is the time to starting scoring wins over Nadal, when he is older and slower and he himself wants to keep playing.
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Hitman said:
That's why I said many times in the past, that a lot of folks invested an unhealthy amount of emotional energy into this slam race, and it has devastated so many that their guy wasn't the guy who won the race in the end.
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So true. Unusual amount of hype was there for Roger Fedrer as like he was some superhuman. At his peak he was best but first nadal and after that novak passed him so roger fan are hurt two time
Nadal passed roger but joker passed them all. The guy who won the race is winner and there is no argument that can save roger and fedrer . Deep down everybody knows number dont lie.numbers dont change.
Peak era or weak era Novak has proved himself against the very best. If today Fedrer was to be #25 slam winner then fed fans will be telling that it is numbers that count .so with rafa fans if magically rafa gets 3 more then you will find what is the value of slam counting.
Long time ago it was Fed army who started this slam race when fedrer went pass Sampras. Now role has changed and fedrer left behind at 3rd place.Now they are very aware to not count slams but other yardstick to measure greatness. Accept the reality and move on . Myself great admirer of roger and his game play .Nadal a true fighter people will remember him as that but you cant deny Novak place in history that he was the one who won everything that was there to acheive. Some will bring CYGS to argue and debate all day long forgetting nadal and roger also never passed that test. If not 100/100 99/100 is not bad result.
Rod laver is coming to GOAT discussion by wining CGYS and roger rafa novak after wining 20 22 24 slams are not considered GOAT material. . One year of dominance overtaking 20 years of tennis. Is it some fairytale story. Then why not goran triumph as wild card is greater than sampras or roger wimbeldon titles. More you dream more the reality hit you hard. Novak wining slam at 36 is weak era fedrer almost wining against novak when he is more near to 40 than it is fitness and well play. Dont get blinded by emotions and face the reality eye to eye and you will see novak won the race.
 
Hitman said:
You've been spot on about Nadal this season, after Nadal's recent withdrawl from USO, what are your thoughts about his next steps and potential title win chances?
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Think he will retire at Laver Cup. He looks so happy and relaxed with life, i dont feel tennis motivates him now as much as it once did (nearly 40 so this is obvious) but he did want to see if he could still be competitive, which clearly he no longer is. Bstaad i think was the end for him as he knew it was all over there.
I am astonished he pulled out of NY. He loves the night sessions there, NY loves him, his wife and family love it there, and i really thought he would go come what may.
There is no way he is going to be putting in the hard yards now to be ready for 2025. His life has moved on now. I actually think of the Big 4 Rafa will be the one who does an Agassi and Sampras and sort of turns his back on the sport to a degree bar his acadamies. I do not think he will do many interviews or commentary. Djokovic conversely i think will stay in the game for most of his life in some capacity. Federer i think will do some commentary eventually. As will Murray.
Personally i am disappointed he thinks the Laver Cup is worth bothering with. Federer's retirement i thought was cringe, and i am astonished it looks like Nadal will follow suit.
 
Hitman said:
Maybe you will, unless you actually think Novak is retiring.

You are really looking for any breadcrumbs you can get now isn't it. Imagine feasting on major records as a Fed fan for years, to be relegated to picking up crumbs for second place on someone else's record. How the mighty have fallen.
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Fedrer himself has to blame for falling to #3 in slam race. He was good enough to win 25 slams . After 17 slams he got stuck and that was his undoing. And last nail in coffin was wimbeldon where 40 15 saga reached climax. Had fedrer won that match he would have written history . Now all that is left is artistic play...people love....religious experience...no meat only gravy ...but for some gravy is enough.
 
gamelovergold said:
Fedrer himself has to blame for falling to #3 in slam race. He was good enough to win 25 slams . After 17 slams he got stuck and that was his undoing. And last nail in coffin was wimbeldon where 40 15 saga reached climax. Had fedrer won that match he would have written history . Now all that is left is artistic play...people love....religious experience...no meat only gravy ...but for some gravy is enough.
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It makes no difference in a general sense to any of the Big 3 fanbases because numbers do not determine who they think is the best/the 'GOAT'. Do you REALLY think the Djo fans around here would acknowledge Federer (or Nadal) as better had Djo not eventually emerged as the most successful of the three?
 
gamelovergold said:
So true. Unusual amount of hype was there for Roger Fedrer as like he was some superhuman. At his peak he was best but first nadal and after that novak passed him so roger fan are hurt two time
Nadal passed roger but joker passed them all. The guy who won the race is winner and there is no argument that can save roger and fedrer . Deep down everybody knows number dont lie.numbers dont change.
Peak era or weak era Novak has proved himself against the very best. If today Fedrer was to be #25 slam winner then fed fans will be telling that it is numbers that count .so with rafa fans if magically rafa gets 3 more then you will find what is the value of slam counting.
Long time ago it was Fed army who started this slam race when fedrer went pass Sampras. Now role has changed and fedrer left behind at 3rd place.Now they are very aware to not count slams but other yardstick to measure greatness. Accept the reality and move on . Myself great admirer of roger and his game play .Nadal a true fighter people will remember him as that but you cant deny Novak place in history that he was the one who won everything that was there to acheive. Some will bring CYGS to argue and debate all day long forgetting nadal and roger also never passed that test. If not 100/100 99/100 is not bad result.
Rod laver is coming to GOAT discussion by wining CGYS and roger rafa novak after wining 20 22 24 slams are not considered GOAT material. . One year of dominance overtaking 20 years of tennis. Is it some fairytale story. Then why not goran triumph as wild card is greater than sampras or roger wimbeldon titles. More you dream more the reality hit you hard. Novak wining slam at 36 is weak era fedrer almost wining against novak when he is more near to 40 than it is fitness and well play. Dont get blinded by emotions and face the reality eye to eye and you will see novak won the race.
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Laver won 5 slams in the open era, the last one just past his 31st birthday. He won 8 pro majors, which IMO, gives him 13 Major/Slam titles as I would not count his amateur majors due to the fact that the true top. players were on the pro tour. Likewise, Rosewall won 15 pro majors and 4 open era slams which = 19 major titles won. Federer has 20, Nadal-22, Djokovic-14 therefore, IMO, Laver is NOT the GOAT. IF there is a true one GOAT, then that would have to be Djokovic.
 
I so like the arrogance from some Djokovic fans that because Djokovic doesn't play some tournaments, it means they don't count :-D :-D :-D

Like Federer didn't always play those tournaments anyway so it's not like he got out of his way to pad his stats.
 
mike danny said:
I so like the arrogance from some Djokovic fans that because Djokovic doesn't play some tournaments, it means they don't count :-D :-D :-D

Like Federer didn't always play those tournaments anyway so it's not like he got out of his way to pad his stats.
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Federer has only missed Basel once since winning his first title there. Halle missed 3 times.

Federer played an average of 3 atp500 tournaments per year (Dubai, Halle, Basel), Novak played an average of 2 atp500 tournaments (Dubai, Beijing). These are the tournaments they liked the most, Federer has 28 titles, Novak has 11 titles.
 
FlyingSaucer said:
Do you REALLY think the Djo fans around here would acknowledge Federer (or Nadal) as better had Djo not eventually emerged as the most successful of the three?
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They didn't acknowledge Nadal as GOAT in 2022 when he was ahead of Djokovic in major count. Now that Djokovic is ahead (because Nadal was out of the way), they think that Djokovic should be seen as GOAT by everybody. Pretty laughable, really.
 
messiahrobins said:
Cry more. I was spot on. Said all year it was Sinner and Alcaraz time. But for them id still back nadal to win slams again but with both around..no chance. The game moves on. Nadal did his bit. Best of his era, but its Sinceraz time
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Lmao spot on. Yes, Nadal will be the pick for USO if not for sinner and Alcaraz. lol. he can’t even win matches on clay anymore.
messiahrobins said:
Nadal has confidence again in his body. That is huge for him. I would now take Rafa in big matches which will get his focus zoned in against anyone bar Alcaraz and Sinner. Same with Djokovic.
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he can’t even beat Borges on clay.
messiahrobins said:
Nadal would be my pick for the USO and Olympics but for Alcaraz and Sinner.
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utterly, utterly delusional. Lol
 
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There's a reason he postponed having a child until this late.
Some players are comfortable being parents, others aren't particularly benefited or hindered by it, but for some reason I always felt fatherhood whilst staying at the top of the game would be an especially difficult proposition for Nadal, more so than for the other members of the big three. His intensity seems to have suffered. And it's not simply because he's old, as he didn't suddenly shift from young to old the moment he had a kid, whereas his results certainly seem to follow a before-after birth pattern. And his rivals were/are also old in tennis terms but continued to produce high-level results well into fatherhood.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
There's a reason he postponed having a child until this late.
Some players are comfortable being parents, others aren't particularly benefited or hindered by it, but for some reason I always felt fatherhood whilst staying at the top of the game would be an especially difficult proposition for Nadal, more so than for the other members of the big three. His intensity seems to have suffered. And it's not simply because he's old, as he didn't suddenly shift from young to old the moment he had a kid, whereas his results certainly seem to follow a before-after birth pattern.
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Lol this would be true if he was 28 back in 2014.

Don't give this excuse. He tried very hard and the more he tries the more injured he gets now in 2024.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Lol this would be true if he was 28 back in 2014.

Don't give this excuse. He tried very hard and the more he tries the more injured he gets now in 2024.
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I don't know, I just see a pattern that wasn't there for Djokovic or Federer, and both of them were quite successful as "old" players who are also fathers.
What is so unbelievable in positing that perhaps Nadal is more single-minded and intense in his focus, and that perhaps he doesn't have the same ability as others to negotiate these two very intense experiences at the same time?
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
I don't know, I just see a pattern that wasn't there for Djokovic or Federer, and both ofP them were quite successful as "old" players.
What is so unbelievable in positing that perhaps Nadal is more single-minded and intense in his focus, and that perhaps he doesn't have the same ability as others to negotiate these two very intense experiences at the same time?
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Rafa's game style is what caused his injuries, especially in his thirties, not being a father.
 
thrust said:
Rafa's game style is what caused his injuries, especially in his thirties, not being a father.
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He spent his whole career with injuries and making comebacks. The only thing that changed recently, right before he stopped winning tournaments, was his family life.
You underestimate how much harder it must to be to come back from injury when you're spending all that time off the court with your new family. I'm not sure why you're so adamant in dying on the hill of this having no influence on him at all.
 
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ScentOfDefeat said:
I don't know, I just see a pattern that wasn't there for Djokovic or Federer, and both of them were quite successful as "old" players who are also fathers.
What is so unbelievable in positing that perhaps Nadal is more single-minded and intense in his focus, and that perhaps he doesn't have the same ability as others to negotiate these two very intense experiences at the same time?
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I agree with Nadal is more intense than fed but he is equally as intensive as Djokovic.

The problem is his injuries are very bad. He had HIP surgery dude.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
He spent his whole career with injuries and making comebacks. The only thing that changed recently, right before he stopped winning tournaments, was his family life.
You underestimate how much harder it must to be to come back from injury when you're spending all that time off the court with your new family. I'm not sure why you're so adamant in dying on the hill of this having no influence at all on him.
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So, you honestly believe Rafa's family life is the cause of his tennis decline? You sound like you are young but believe me bodies and physical abilities do not improve past 30, they decline at different speeds for different players.
 
thrust said:
So, you honestly believe Rafa's family life is the cause of his tennis decline? You sound like you are young but believe me bodies and physical abilities do not improve past 30, they decline at different speeds for different players.
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I think it's certainly part of it, yes. At the very least. It was a major change in his life.
This is speculation, of course, but when you no longer have the set of conditions that made Nadal such a dangerous player - and being single-minded, super intense and hyper-focused on tennis alone, to the point where he actually built his own psychological "world" (the nervous tics, the rituals, etc.) are things he developed like no other player - you're inevitably going to see decline, especially because this happened at the tail-end of his career, and not halfway through, which is what happened to Djokovic and especially Federer. They were able to adapt and it became part of their tennis life. As on older player you're going to be less adaptable when a major change occurs. And for Nadal, the lack of flexibility or ability to change is not only related to age, but also to the aforementioned fortress he had to build to become the player he was. A family changes all that, and in Nadal's case you can clearly see something you don't see with the other two: a clear boundary between the before and the after, as if he can't concentrate those two major aspects of his existence into one harmonious whole.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
He spent his whole career with injuries and making comebacks. The only thing that changed recently, right before he stopped winning tournaments, was his family life.
You underestimate how much harder it must to be to come back from injury when you're spending all that time off the court with your new family. I'm not sure why you're so adamant in dying on the hill of this having no influence on him at all.
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i was surprised by the timing of the daddal's south american exo tour with ruud (several weeks?)... why plan something so unnecessary soon after the birth of the juniordal? :unsure:

PS: back on the thread's topic, hopefully not! :giggle:​
 
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vive le beau jeu ! said:
i was surprised by the timing of daddal's south american exo tour with ruud (several weeks?)... why plan something so unnecessary soon after the birth of the juniordal? :unsure:

PS: back on the thread's topic, hopefully not! :giggle:​
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I have an idea as to the Nadal-Ruud exo tour of South America then, but one thing seems certain is that both player's health and tennis suffered after that tour.
 
gamelovergold said:
Fedrer himself has to blame for falling to #3 in slam race. He was good enough to win 25 slams . After 17 slams he got stuck and that was his undoing. And last nail in coffin was wimbeldon where 40 15 saga reached climax. Had fedrer won that match he would have written history . Now all that is left is artistic play...people love....religious experience...no meat only gravy ...but for some gravy is enough.
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It's easier to chase than be chased, he probably never imagined he'd be passed. The Australian Open final 2017 felt decisive, I remember people saying at the time it was the slam race done and dusted with Rafa 4 behind. Novak wasn't even really in the conversation then
 
Midaso240 said:
It's easier to chase than be chased, he probably never imagined he'd be passed. The Australian Open final 2017 felt decisive, I remember people saying at the time it was the slam race done and dusted with Rafa 4 behind. Novak wasn't even really in the conversation then
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It had been 17-14-6 after the 2014 French Open final, and Djokovic won 6 majors in the next 2 years without Nadal or Federer winning any in that period.

It was 18-14-12 after the 2017 Australian Open final.

After the 2018 French Open, it was 20-17-12. Djokovic was falling further behind, having not won a major for 2 years.
 
Mustard said:
It had been 17-14-6 after the 2014 French Open final, and Djokovic won 6 majors in the next 2 years without Nadal or Federer winning any in that period.

It was 18-14-12 after the 2017 Australian Open final.

After the 2018 French Open, it was 20-17-12. Djokovic was falling further behind, having not won a major for 2 years.
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So you feel bad or something

Rafa got wrecked in 2015 its his fault

Nolefams get together.
 
ScentOfDefeat said:
I think it's certainly part of it, yes. At the very least. It was a major change in his life.
This is speculation, of course, but when you no longer have the set of conditions that made Nadal such a dangerous player - and being single-minded, super intense and hyper-focused on tennis alone, to the point where he actually built his own psychological "world" (the nervous tics, the rituals, etc.) are things he developed like no other player - you're inevitably going to see decline, especially because this happened at the tail-end of his career, and not halfway through, which is what happened to Djokovic and especially Federer. They were able to adapt and it became part of their tennis life. As on older player you're going to be less adaptable when a major change occurs. And for Nadal, the lack of flexibility or ability to change is not only related to age, but also to the aforementioned fortress he had to build to become the player he was. A family changes all that, and in Nadal's case you can clearly see something you don't see with the other two: a clear boundary between the before and the after, as if he can't concentrate those two major aspects of his existence into one harmonious whole.
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I don't agree with this. Nadal can't play tennis because of injuries. He physically can't play matches...
 
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