Will this final be remembered as 'Stan beats the injured Nadal'

steenkash

Professional
Having looked at various webpages all I can see is headlines such as 'Wawrinka beats injured Nadal' or 'wounded Nadal fights, but falls to eventual champion'.

Wawrinka in the first set played such powerful tennis, Nadal was not able to sustain it and therefore led to him being injured.

I really hope Stan gets all the plaudits. He deserves it.
 
Not for me, I wanted Rafa to win but he didn't, and I'll remember Stan's win as a deserved one. He didn't fluke his way to the final, played a great tournaments, beat Djokovic, and was outplaying Rafa even before the injury. So I'm happy for him for getting his first Slam after his hard work the last few years and narrow losses last year.
 

SteveI

Legend
Having looked at various webpages all I can see is headlines such as 'Wawrinka beats injured Nadal' or 'wounded Nadal fights, but falls to eventual champion'.

Wawrinka in the first set played such powerful tennis, Nadal was not able to sustain it and therefore led to him being injured.

I really hope Stan gets all the plaudits. He deserves it.
Sorry this one will go down as Stan Beats Rafa and THE MTO!!!
 

Tenez101

Hall of Fame
BS Stan was beating Nadal at 100% before the injury. Even as a Nadal fan, something smells fishy about this supposed back injury. Something tells me if Nadal had broken Stan down 3-5 in the first, and had gone on to take the set, he wouldn't have suddenly tweaked his back.

Not necessarily suggesting that it was gamesmanship, but maybe to some extent Rafa's injury was psychosomatic? He was under a lot of pressure in this final and fully expected to win, maybe his mind just invented excuses? It's not the first time this has happened in Australia (and in all those other times he was also the heavy favorite).
 

eliars

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately I think it will.

A player getting injured in a final is the worst thing that can happen to both players.

I feel sorry for Stan that he had to win it this way, but an injured player can't exactly undo his injury. He can only try to keep playing to soften the blow for Wawrinka (ie. handing it to him by retiring)
 

steenkash

Professional
BS Stan was beating Nadal at 100% before the injury. Even as a Nadal fan, something smells fishy about this supposed back injury. Something tells me if Nadal had broken Stan down 3-5 in the first, and had gone on to take the set, he wouldn't have suddenly tweaked his back.

Not necessarily suggesting that it was gamesmanship, but maybe to some extent Rafa's injury was psychosomatic? He was under a lot of pressure in this final and fully expected to win, maybe his mind just invented excuses? It's not the first time this has happened in Australia (and in all those other times he was also the heavy favorite).
In my opinion Nadal did manage to tweak his back, but not to the extent as was described. I agree with you in regards to the possibility of his injury being psychologically related, but I think stress only aggravated his tweaked muscle. Your thoughts ?
 

eliars

Hall of Fame
BS Stan was beating Nadal at 100% before the injury. Even as a Nadal fan, something smells fishy about this supposed back injury. Something tells me if Nadal had broken Stan down 3-5 in the first, and had gone on to take the set, he wouldn't have suddenly tweaked his back.

Not necessarily suggesting that it was gamesmanship, but maybe to some extent Rafa's injury was psychosomatic? He was under a lot of pressure in this final and fully expected to win, maybe his mind just invented excuses? It's not the first time this has happened in Australia (and in all those other times he was also the heavy favorite).
I can't believe you're even questioning his injury. Nadal had 3 BP opportunities in the first set to level the set. Then Nadal was ONE break down in the SECOND set.

If you think this is psychosomatic I guess you havn't really seen Nadal in 2011 against Djokovic? Nadal faking an injury in a match like this goes against everything he stands for.
 
I give Stan the credit he WON this match he was playing great tennis! Stan also beat Djokovic something people should not forget! Stan's win is going to motivate the rest of the ATP players. People should also remember this is Stan first slam final!
 

namelessone

Legend
The final, yes.

The tourney, no.

Wawrinka did play some wonderful tennis to beat Djoko and Berdych, plus an astounding first set against Nadal.
 

eliars

Hall of Fame
Plus, if you're inferring that Nadal's injury was psychosomatic you're basically questioning Nadal's mental strength. Which is by large and far the asset he's credited for the most: being one of the most mentally tough guys in the history of the sport.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
I voted for Stan in 5, I knew he had the weapons.

This is how the 1HBH must be played, and Federer hasn't done it since 2010 in London. Dimitrov showcased it too better than Federer against Nadal.

Huge progress for Wawrinka.

CONGRATULATIONS FOR WINNING TWICE AGAINST ALL STAKES AND HISTORY!!

In this respect, I consider this the upset of all time.
 

KillerServe

Banned
No doubt. That was Nadal's plan immediately after he was down 2-0 in the second and knew he had no chance. That was his out.
 

Arsenal4o

Rookie
AO 2014 CHAMPION- Stanislas Wawrinka.

All the ppl cheering on losses are pathetic. When Federer and others lose.
Trolls understand in life there is equilibrium. Nothing stays the same.
What has a beginning, has an end.
 

Tenez101

Hall of Fame
Plus, if you're inferring that Nadal's injury was psychosomatic you're basically questioning Nadal's mental strength. Which is by large and far the asset he's credited for the most: being one of the most mentally tough guys in the history of the sport.
Nadal's mental strength really only thrives when he's the underdog. When he's the heavy favorite, especially in a big match he often falters. Not saying he was faking injury, but it is really conceivable to me that his mind could be inventing excuses to make him the underdog in the match. :shock: His body has given out too many times when he was the favorite in Australia for it to be coincidence. The human mind is more powerful than you think.
 

eliars

Hall of Fame
Nadal's mental strength really only thrives when he's the underdog. When he's the heavy favorite, especially in a big match he often falters. Not saying he was faking injury, but it is really conceivable to me that his mind could be inventing excuses to make him the underdog in the match. :shock: His body has given out too many times when he was the favorite in Australia for it to be coincidence. The human mind is more powerful than you think.
I know exactly how powerful the human mind is. Both of my folks are shrinks and I'm studying psychology myself. Nadal has proved more than enough times that he can handle being the favourite in a final (Soderling, Berdych).

Besides your theory can easily be refuted as Nadal after losing the first set and being down a break then was the underdog. He did find himself down. Wawrinka was in the favorable position. How many times have we not seen Nadal take advantage of players getting nervous being in the lead vs him, ie. closing sets against him. Nadal knows he would have chances against a virgin grand slam finalist.

Sorry I simply do not buy it.
 
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ledwix

Hall of Fame
Stan took out the top 2 players in the world, beating the #1 player in the final who was on his way to GOAThood, and beating the guy going for a record number of titles at his venue. It was analogous to what Del Potro pulled off in 2009, and therefore a mighty achievement if you look at the big picture.
 

Tenez101

Hall of Fame
I know exactly how powerful the human mind is. Both of my folks are shrinks and I'm studying psychology myself. Nadal has proved more than enough times that he can handle being the favourite in a final (Soderling, Berdych).

Besides your theory can easily be refuted as Nadal after losing the first set and being down a break then was the underdog. He did find himself down. Wawrinka was in the favorable position. How many times have we not seen Nadal take advantage of players getting nervous being in the lead vs him, ie. closing sets against him. Nadal knows he would have chances against a virgin grand slam finalist.

Sorry I simply do not buy it.
Could be a different story on clay or natural surfaces, but in Australia it seems like he always falters when he's the huge favorite (and whether you want to admit it or not, he was the HUGE favorite for this match). Plus, Nadal was under even more pressure tonight, as he was playing to become the first in the open era to win the double career grand slam, and to tie Sampras (not to mention Sampras himself was watching). I am really starting to re-evaluate Rafa's mental strength. He often struggles when he's expected to win. (Remember the 'Rafa Slam' in 2011?)
 

magnut

Hall of Fame
This will go down as nadal failing to the pressure of goat-hood and choking a golden opportunity away. Stan will be as well remembered as gaudio or Johanson.

It will also be remembered as one of the most ridiculous crap fest displays of inconstancy ever in a major final where both players progressively played worse up to the very end. rafa barely made stan hit a ball in the final game. absolute choke job.
 

Kalin

Legend
It will actually be remembered as the tournament in which Stan Wawrinka demolished the world's No. 2 (and reigning champion) and No. 1 players (in addition to some lesser fodder) to lift the trophy!
 

magnut

Hall of Fame
It will actually be remembered as the tournament in which Stan Wawrinka demolished the world's No. 2 (and reigning champion) and No. 1 players (in addition to some lesser fodder) to lift the trophy!
no that would be a classic match in terms of performance. This will be a classic match in terms of ridiculousness. it was an amusing ride though. i dont think i have ever laughed so hard in my life. i am going to have to watch a vintage match tonight to get this crap out of my head.

its kind of like...how many times have i watched gaudio/coria or johanson/safin or kafelnikov/enqvist.......one time was enough for those finals.
 

Atherton2003

Hall of Fame
It will be remembered as a forgetable match where Wawrinka beat an injured Nadal. Additionally, Nadal will actually get more accolades for finishing the match and even winning a set.
 

Kalin

Legend
It will be remembered as a forgetable match where Wawrinka beat an injured Nadal. Additionally, Nadal will actually get more accolades for finishing the match and even winning a set.
Sure, maybe they'll even give him a trophy.

Guys, I realize you're upset Rafa lost but face it- Wawrinka beat the top 2 players in the world and absolutely deserves his victory. No amount of sour grapes and butthurt will change that.

And the more people press Rafa's injury the more his antics during the match will come to the forefront.

Let it rest.
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
Having looked at various webpages all I can see is headlines such as 'Wawrinka beats injured Nadal' or 'wounded Nadal fights, but falls to eventual champion'.

Wawrinka in the first set played such powerful tennis, Nadal was not able to sustain it and therefore led to him being injured.

I really hope Stan gets all the plaudits. He deserves it.
Don't worry. AO 2014 will be remembered as a slam where supposed underdog Stan Wawrinka broke through and beat world no.1 Nadal and no.2 Djokovic to take his first Grand Slam title. By doing that, Stan also finished the streak of dominance by big 4 in Grand Slam for the past 5 years. Nothing else.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
It will be remembered as the match in which Wawrinka's 1HBH swept Nadal off the court, just as Federer's 1HBH did with Nadal in London 3 years ago.

Indeed, one must be in great shape (esp the shoulder and the back) to do that, but it's feasible with proper preparation and conditions that are not on the superslow side.
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
Yes. Because the media and certain fans will bleat about it until the end of time. Despite the fact that Stan more than proved himself against Djokovic and during the first set and a half of the final.
 

stingstang

Professional
BS Stan was beating Nadal at 100% before the injury. Even as a Nadal fan, something smells fishy about this supposed back injury. Something tells me if Nadal had broken Stan down 3-5 in the first, and had gone on to take the set, he wouldn't have suddenly tweaked his back.

Not necessarily suggesting that it was gamesmanship, but maybe to some extent Rafa's injury was psychosomatic? He was under a lot of pressure in this final and fully expected to win, maybe his mind just invented excuses? It's not the first time this has happened in Australia (and in all those other times he was also the heavy favorite).
Exactly this. Would he have had a broken back/whatever if he was a set and a break up? Hmmmm!

I think he went all Hollywood on an ache and it could have worked. Especially against someone usually chokey.

Having your rhythm broken up and fighting all the mind games in a first GS final is a massive achievement. He was beating nadal, plus beat Djokovic in 5 after losing in similar situations so many times. 100% legit GS.
 
Stan stole the finals from valiant and deserving Rafa, the true champion

That is the Headline that should be on all the webpages and newspapers.
 

pds999

Hall of Fame
I know exactly how powerful the human mind is. Both of my folks are shrinks and I'm studying psychology myself. Nadal has proved more than enough times that he can handle being the favourite in a final (Soderling, Berdych).

Besides your theory can easily be refuted as Nadal after losing the first set and being down a break then was the underdog. He did find himself down. Wawrinka was in the favorable position. How many times have we not seen Nadal take advantage of players getting nervous being in the lead vs him, ie. closing sets against him. Nadal knows he would have chances against a virgin grand slam finalist.

Sorry I simply do not buy it.
Exactly. Stan was unlikely to sustain that first set form as the match wore on. If at 100% Rafa would have won that match IMO. Probably in 4 sets. There is a reason Stan has never won a single set off him before. This isn't just Stan suddenly playing the match of his life. He played a strong first set and then got a little shakey and a fully fit Rafa would have taken the 2nd set and then gone on to close it out fairly comfortably.
 

pds999

Hall of Fame
Sure, maybe they'll even give him a trophy.

Guys, I realize you're upset Rafa lost but face it- Wawrinka beat the top 2 players in the world and absolutely deserves his victory. No amount of sour grapes and butthurt will change that.

And the more people press Rafa's injury the more his antics during the match will come to the forefront.

Let it rest.
In all seriousness, what "antics" do you mean? So if a player injures himself in a match he is supposed to play on in pain just to satisfy you?
 

Solo

Banned
No it won't because Stan was playing the match of his life and had Nadal on the ropes for 1 set and a half. Without the injury, Stan would have still won. There's a reason he just beat Djokovic and Nadal back-to-back, because he was just better. Simple as. No bullsh1tting.
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
Exactly. Stan was unlikely to sustain that first set form as the match wore on. If at 100% Rafa would have won that match IMO. Probably in 4 sets. There is a reason Stan has never won a single set off him before. This isn't just Stan suddenly playing the match of his life. He played a strong first set and then got a little shakey and a fully fit Rafa would have taken the 2nd set and then gone on to close it out fairly comfortably.
It's this sort of pointless speculation that irritates people. Rafael Nadal - the hypothetical champion of the world. He wasn't 100%. Keeping yourself fit is part of being a great champion; it's not blind luck.

You also have no idea that Wawa wouldn't have been able to sustain that level. He'd contested several ridiculous tiebreak sets with Rafa before and clearly had the hardcourt game to give him problems. Add in his mental improvements over the past 12 months and you have a player more than capable of taking a fully fit Rafa out at the Aussie Open.
 

Kalin

Legend
In all seriousness, what "antics" do you mean? So if a player injures himself in a match he is supposed to play on in pain just to satisfy you?
I mean the 'timely' MTO just before Wawrinka's serve as well as the pained expression, tears etc. Not the first time Rafa's done that. If you read the game thread, many posters actually predicted it :)

Rafa also going from barely moving to running like a rabbit was also funny but I grant that he may have suddenly felt better; this happens.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
It's this sort of pointless speculation that irritates people. Rafael Nadal - the hypothetical champion of the world. He wasn't 100%. Keeping yourself fit is part of being a great champion; it's not blind luck.

You also have no idea that Wawa wouldn't have been able to sustain that level. He'd contested several ridiculous tiebreak sets with Rafa before and clearly had the hardcourt game to give him problems. Add in his mental improvements over the past 12 months and you have a player more than capable of taking a fully fit Rafa out at the Aussie Open.
If that's true then why did we hear about Federer's back all last year?

The speculation is when people say a player is lying. At this point we don't know the effect of Nadal's injury, but people are feasting anyway.

They have no way of knowing, and it only reveals their own lack of character.

Nowhere did I see Nadal fans acting like this when he beat Federer the day before.
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
Does anyone consider Lendl win over Edberg when he retired in the AO final?

NOOOOOT MANY remember it........so I expect in the long run..Wawa will be remembered for winning the AO. He deserves it as well for beating Djokovic and Berdych. Nadal may done himself in....but Wawrinka knowing that moment kept his composure....that alone deserves him a Slam title.\

How many times have we seen Nadal creat miracles...being injured and over coming better players to win titles. Today, it happened to go the other way. Credit to Stan.....not breaking up when he knew he can win a Slam for the first time.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
The media headlines don't do justice to Stan's tennis. Thankfully true tennis fans (those who watched the entire match) know that Stan owned Nadal in the first set and broke Rafa's serve right away in the second.
 
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