Will Wawrinka win more slams than Murray?

thejoe

Hall of Fame
Whatever rocks your boat mate, i get it, no one can criticize your beloved Muzz.
Are you from Britain? You can't be if you're seriously trying to claim that Murray winning Wimbledon lacked fire or passion, regardless of how comprehensive his victory over Djokovic.

His match with Baghdatis was one of my favourite matches from 2013.
 
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-snake-

Hall of Fame
Are you from Britain? You can't be if you're seriously trying to claim that Murray winning Wimbledon lacked fire or passion, regardless of how comprehensive his victory over Djokovic.

His match with Baghdatis was one of my favourite matches from 2013.
No i'm not. Dull win is dull. I don't care about Perry's ghost and all that stuff.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The thing about Muzza is that his 2 Slam wins were sorta crappy so to speak. I mean, he had much better matches ( against Djoko) in M1000 than in those finals. I'm not saying that he's Storm from the x-men (?) but there was a freaking tornado around the place, the match could go either way. A win is a win i know but you can't overlook that factor.
You hit the nail on the head. The match could have gone either way, so how does that not make for excitement and suspense compared to a one-sided beatdown? :confused:

At Wimby was sort of the same thing but with a different vibe
Perfect weather conditions that day. Sunny, warm and not so much as a light breeze about the place. Still, you're not satisfied!

5 sets with Dasco? :confused: He won the tourney but that last match was awful.
Verdasco is a former top 10 player who can still play like one when he has a mind to. The 2013 Wimby semi-final was one such occasion. Did you not see the way he was serving and hitting the ball? Do you not remember the way he played Nadal in the semi-final of the AO back in '09? You have a very odd idea of what you call 'awful' when most of us watched a match filled with tension and great hitting. If you don't want to acknowledge that, then I can only say you are hopelessly blinded by your patent dislike of Murray and disrespect for Verdasco.

By the way, how would you rate Federer's 2012 Wimbledon win considering he faced match points from Benneteau along the way, a player who has never ever reached the top 20?

Again, it's not his fault that Nole was playing high or with a hangover but still :neutral:
You mean just like it wasn't Wawrinka's fault that he played against a subpar, injured Nadal?

Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. There's no "fire" when he wins
As you say, it's a matter of personal taste. But some of us are objective enough to treat players with equal consideration and not let our personal likes and dislikes get in the way of judging a player and his or her performances fairly and on the same terms as we would judge one that we liked!
 
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batz

G.O.A.T.
Whatever rocks your boat mate, i get it, no one can criticize your beloved Muzz.
No, you don't get it mate. You are free to criticise all you want - if it's valid I might even join in. If you spout pysh about him - I'll pull you up. Suggesting that being taken to 5 sets during his Wimbledon run somehow diminishes his achievement or is somehow material most definitely counts as spouting pysh - as evidenced by it also happening to Roger, Rafa and many others on their way to winning slams.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Nevermind folks, i've seen this before ( murray's gang in full throttle). Not in the mood to quote and quote and type.
Oh tut tut, naughty us for having the cheek to defend our man when he's being unfairly attacked! :shock:

Just leave Stan out of this ok?
Just leave Stan out of what? The thread is partially ABOUT Stan, not just Murray! It's not just an excuse for you to weigh in with your negative comments about Murray while the rest of us must leave darling Stan alone! :)

Okay then.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I notice you didn't answer my question. If Berdych and Djokovic had won, would they have been aided by the wind or do unfavourable weather conditions ONLY some how benefit Murray
The wind was on so all bets were off. You could make a case for either Berdych or Djokovic that the wind helped them if they beat Murray but they didn't so the conversation is moot. Credit to Murray for dealing with the conditions better but you can't just overlook the fact that Berdych and Djokovic were clearly struggling because of the conditions.

Maybe Murray's heightened level of play helped to contribute to that. After all, it's not as if Cilic is afraid to beat Murray. He beat him at the USO once before. But can you put aside your obvious hostility and bias to acknowledge that possibility?
I don't care what Murray did, losing a set from a 5-1 lead is a choke no matter how you look at it. Besides, I watched the match so I know what I'm talking about. Cilic is a consistent choker, anyway, please tell me how it's not that but his opponents starting to play at a higher level all of a sudden (ALL OF THEM).

Lol...you Fedfans have been making excuses for him going right back into his prime years. When Murray beat peak Fed back in 2006 when he was still a teenage rookie and prime Fed was 25, younger than Murray is now, all we got from you then were the usual excuses! Nothing ever changes does it, whatever age Fed might happen to be!
That's one match and one when Federer was on his last legs playing 3-set matches for 5 consecutive days in the previous tournament + there were no BYEs in the Masters at the time so Fed had absolutely no time to recover.
 
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tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
For Wawrinka to win more Majors than Murray, he'd have to win at least three.

This is a very long-shot.
???

Murray - 2 Slams
Wawrinka - 1 Slam

To have more Slams, Wawrinka would need 2 Slams.

Unless you assume that Murray is gonna win 1 more anyway.
 
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M

monfed

Guest
In theory, Stan should win more slams as he's cleared the big mental block, the first one is usually the hardest. But it could turnout to be his only slam.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The wind was on so all bets were off.
Exactly. Same conditions for BOTH players. BOTH matches were tight affairs so there were obvious opportunities for ANY of the players involved to come through!

I don't care what Murray did, losing a set from a 5-1 lead is a choke no matter how you look at it. Besides, I watched the match so I know what I'm talking about. Cilic is a consistent choker, anyway, please tell me how it's not that but his opponents starting to play at a higher level all of a sudden (ALL OF THEM).
You see, that's your problem in a nutshell. You don't care what Murray did and are not even going to entertain the notion that he may have contributed to turning the match around by his OWN efforts. Whenever Federer or whichever player you may fancy wins a match by coming from a long way behind, do you dismiss THEIR efforts as well and just put it down to their opponent being a choker?

That's one match and one when Federer was on his last legs playing 3-set matches for 5 consecutive days in the previous tournament + there were no BYEs in the Masters at the time so Fed had absolutely no time to recover.
So does Murray, for instance, get a pass when he lost his first GS final against Federer at '08 USO for instance? After all, he had just had to play a 2 day, weather-interrupted semi-final against Nadal whereas Fed had had a nice 2 day rest. Or is only Federer ever allowed to be tired when he loses?
 

killerboi2

Hall of Fame
Don't know if these wind guys are serious or just trolling, but it's one of the most ridiculous excuses i've ever heard for a loss in my life. I mean how the hell does someone blame a loss on wind and get taken seriously. If the other guy cannot handle the wind then that is all on him. Maybe he should up his game and learn to adapt to conditions better.

Anyway back to the topic... Just don't see Wawrinka winning more slams than Murray. Didn't think he'd even win 1 tbh. It would be amazing if he did win 3 or more though.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
???

Murray - 2 Slams
Wawrinka - 1 Slam

To have more Slams, Wawrinka would need 2 Slams.

Unless you assume that Murray is gonna win 1 more anyway.
You didn't read Nathaniel's post properly, did you? He said that Wawrinka would have to win at least 3 Majors, to win more than Murray. As Murray already has 2 Majors, he's quite correct. What is it you don't understand?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Haha you're like a dog with a bone when it comes to Murray Mainad but you do bring a smile to my face! :]
I'm sure you would do exactly the same for your guy if he ever had to face half the biased nonsense that is constantly aimed at Murray on here! :wink:
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I'm sure you would do exactly the same for your guy if he ever had to face half the biased nonsense that is constantly aimed at Murray on here! :wink:
I heard that! Actually I've got nothing but admiration for you-you must have boundless energy because I know how draining I'd find it having to continually defend Novak all the time. Kudos to you! :)
 
J

JRAJ1988

Guest
I hope Murray wins more slams...he's only 26/27 on the road to recovery.

I suppose if he were to win more slams people will say this is due to WW3 or a pandemic which only Andy was immune to hence winning the slam by default...Alien invasion during Wimbledon put off Murray's opponent...

Maybe if you have a chance in life you grasp it regardless of the circumstances or the time...Stan did and Murray did.
 

poofytail

Banned
I think part of the reason Murray is disrespected and seems to have so many haters on this forum is many resent the British hype. However that is flawed reasoning, as that is not his fault. Britian is one of the biggest sporting markets in the World, who have hungered for their next tennis champion for almost a decade. That he will be somewhat overhyped by his home country is to be expected, but people here feel the need to go the other direction and greatly underrate him to retaliate, but it only makes them look like idiots.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I heard that! Actually I've got nothing but admiration for you-you must have boundless energy because I know how draining I'd find it having to continually defend Novak all the time. Kudos to you! :)
Thanks. But I can only envy someone like you who doesn't have to defend his man all the time from all sorts of bizarre accusations! Believe me, I'd far rather it were otherwise but I guess I just have to accept that, for some reason, Murray attracts more disrespect and misunderstanding on here (as opposed to out and out hate). It was a desire to correct some of these misconceptions, inaccuracies and often absurd comments about him that prompted me to join the forum in the first place. Nearly 3 years on and, while the situation is much improved since I first joined, I see my work and that of batz is still far from done! :cool:
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Only place I see Murray winning any is Wimbledon

I'd be surprised if he ends up with more than 4. I like him, but I just don't see it happening
He's probably the fav. for Wimbledon and a top-3 favorite for the 2 HC slams for at least another 2 years, maybe more. I don't see why he can't win a few more.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Thanks. But I can only envy someone like you who doesn't have to defend his man all the time from all sorts of bizarre accusations! Believe me, I'd far rather it were otherwise but I guess I just have to accept that, for some reason, Murray attracts more disrespect and misunderstanding on here (as opposed to out and out hate). It was a desire to correct some of these misconceptions, inaccuracies and often absurd comments about him that prompted me to join the forum in the first place. Nearly 3 years on and, while the situation is much improved since I first joined, I see my work and that of batz is still far from done! :cool:
Oh Djokovic gets his fair share believe me but I understand what you're saying. At the end of the day haters gonna hate but you and batz are doing a sterling job and I always enjoy reading your posts. Murray's had a great career so far and his detractors are just jealous that their lives haven't been anywhere near as successful, that's really the best way to look at it. :)
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I think part of the reason Murray is disrespected and seems to have so many haters on this forum is many resent the British hype. However that is flawed reasoning, as that is not his fault. Britian is one of the biggest sporting markets in the World, who have hungered for their next tennis champion for almost a decade. That he will be somewhat overhyped by his home country is to be expected, but people here feel the need to go the other direction and greatly underrate him to retaliate, but it only makes them look like idiots.
I think you speak the truth. I would say, that for some of the more notorious haters on here (eg. Fastgrass and his various aliases) it seems to be a problem with Britain in general. In their cases, I'm convinced that if Murray were not British, they wouldn't bother to single him out. Other, mostly English posters (eg.The Bawss) have never forgiven Murray for his 'anybody but England' jibe with Tim Henman when both were joking about their countries' respective chances in the forthcoming World Cup (England and Scotland having separate football teams). In the third major case, it seems to be Fedfanatics and their resentment that Murray should have beaten their hero as often as he has done. In their case, I've noticed the resentment takes the form of trying to belittle him as much as possible and dismiss him as some sort of freakish non-entity whilst excusing all Federer's losses to him on the grounds of Fed's state of health, physical preparedness or, these days, his age or a combination of all 3.

Incidentally, the same Fedfanatics who take this line with Murray are generally the same ones who attack Nadal (the only other top player with a consistently positive H2H against their man) with even more venom. They don't feel they can dismiss Nadal's worth as much as they can do with Murray so, in his case, their resentment takes the form of out and out hate, character assassination etc.

It can be a sad old world on here, can't it?
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
I don't think so.

Well, I don't want to count him out but until a few days ago, Stan had only been the winner of 5 250 tournaments. Wawrinka just went straight to the top and I really hope he wins more slams and masters.
 

poofytail

Banned
I think you speak the truth. I would say, that for some of the more notorious haters on here (eg. Fastgrass and his various aliases) it seems to be a problem with Britain in general. In their cases, I'm convinced that if Murray were not British, they wouldn't bother to single him out. Other, mostly English posters (eg.The Bawss) have never forgiven Murray for his 'anybody but England' jibe with Tim Henman when both were joking about their countries' respective chances in the forthcoming World Cup. In the third major case, it seems to be Fedfanatics and their resentment that Murray should have beaten their hero as often as he has done. In their case, I've noticed the resentment takes the form of trying to belittle him as much as possible and dismiss him as some sort of freakish non-entity whilst excusing all Federer's losses to him on the grounds of Fed's state of health, physical preparedness or, these days, his age or a combination of all 3.

Incidentally, the same Fedfanatics who take this line with Murray are generally the same ones who attack Nadal (the only other top player with a consistently positive H2H against their man) with even more venom. They don't feel they can dismiss Nadal's worth as much as they can do with Murray so, in his case, their resentment takes the form of out and out hate, character assassination etc.

It can be a sad old world on here, can't it?
Nadal is a huge threat to take over both Federer's slam record and overtake Federer as the new Open Era GOAT, so if you were a diehard Federer fanatic wouldnt you hate him too. haha. The fear of this also explains the heavy orgasming over this forum with Nadal's shock Australian Open final loss, lowering the odds of those occurences somewhat. It is also why Federer fans on this forum seem to worship Djokovic as if he were their co-favorite player. In reality they wouldnt give a dang about him if it werent for that he is their hope to preserve Federer's slam record, and keep Nadal from passing him as a greater player.

In the case of Murray though yes I agree that while Murray will never be a threat to Federer's records or status in history like Nadal, that the head to head is something that irks Federer fans. Maybe in an odd way even more than Nadal. Federer fans probably believe a guy with only 2 slams should be so far beneath him yet since day 1 the talented Murray has had an equal or winning record vs him. Some just cant accept that Murray is both a great player and for whatever reason a bad matchup for Federer, and release their frusteration through dissing him.
 

killerboi2

Hall of Fame
I think part of the reason Murray is disrespected and seems to have so many haters on this forum is many resent the British hype. However that is flawed reasoning, as that is not his fault. Britian is one of the biggest sporting markets in the World, who have hungered for their next tennis champion for almost a decade. That he will be somewhat overhyped by his home country is to be expected, but people here feel the need to go the other direction and greatly underrate him to retaliate, but it only makes them look like idiots.
Whether it's his personality, his playing style, the anyone but england thing, his on court shouting, the fact that he's british or they see him as a threat to their favourite player -a lot of people just don't like him. When it all starts getting ridiculous is when people start letting their personal hatred get in the way of judging him as a player. This causes people to severly underrate him and unfairly dismiss his acheviments in the game.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Got to go with Murray since he's 1 up and is younger. However I hope Stan wins more in the future.

Love to see them play in the slam final.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
You see, that's your problem in a nutshell. You don't care what Murray did and are not even going to entertain the notion that he may have contributed to turning the match around by his OWN efforts. Whenever Federer or whichever player you may fancy wins a match by coming from a long way behind, do you dismiss THEIR efforts as well and just put it down to their opponent being a choker?
Yup. There's no reason to suddenly start sucking when you're up 5-1 in a set (when you got to 5-1 in the first place!). Losing from that position is a choke. Losing a set from 5-3 or 5-4 is debatable.


So does Murray, for instance, get a pass when he lost his first GS final against Federer at '08 USO for instance? After all, he had just had to play a 2 day, weather-interrupted semi-final against Nadal whereas Fed had had a nice 2 day rest. Or is only Federer ever allowed to be tired when he loses?
Murray was out on court for 1 hour the next day. Hardy a disadvantage.
 
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tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
You didn't read Nathaniel's post properly, did you? He said that Wawrinka would have to win at least 3 Majors, to win more than Murray. As Murray already has 2 Majors, he's quite correct. What is it you don't understand?
My bad, thanks.
 

gn

G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka will at best get to 3 slams, and that's if he wins 2 this year. Murray has alot more life left in him. Even if Wawrinka won 3 slams Murray would be greater IMO.
At least, that part is right. :D
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Stan has achieved the very long shot thus far (and also he'd have to win at least 4 now instead of 3).
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Stan has achieved the very long shot thus far (and also he'd have to win at least 4 now instead of 3).
Who do you think has the better game for winning slams when in form, Murray or Wawrinka? Murray's is clearly more conducive to consistency but if both return to peak form who do you think is more likely to break through in 2018?
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Who do you think has the better game for winning slams when in form, Murray or Wawrinka? Murray's is clearly more conducive to consistency but if both return to peak form who do you think is more likely to break through in 2018?
Both hitting peak form you say? I was going to say Murray because even if he arguably has a worse peak (not saying I agree) he'd be more consistently placing himself going forward in a supposedly weaker era where he should actually take advantage of the match-ups (say he plays Zverev, Kyrgios and such in finals). But then I remembered that Stan has actually been a consistent Slam performer over the last 3 years and they're pretty comparable in that department so it probably depends on match-ups and as such I think Murray will be better placed - more tools to deal with the next lot down. I think he'll fare much better against Zverev and Kyrgios (who I still believe in) than Wawrinka. Djokovic could be very important in the equation.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Both hitting peak form you say? I was going to say Murray because even if he arguably has a worse peak (not saying I agree) he'd be more consistently placing himself going forward in a supposedly weaker era where he should actually take advantage of the match-ups (say he plays Zverev, Kyrgios and such in finals). But then I remembered that Stan has actually been a consistent Slam performer over the last 3 years and they're pretty comparable in that department so it probably depends on match-ups and as such I think Murray will be better placed - more tools to deal with the next lot down. I think he'll fare much better against Zverev and Kyrgios (who I still believe in) than Wawrinka. Djokovic could be very important in the equation.
Yes I expect Djokovic to come back with fire in his belly and to be challenging the top probably by the clay season at the latest.

Murray exposes the players beneath him to a degree Wawa never will. On the flip side when Wawrinka gets rolling against the top players he's a more challenging proposition outside of grass imo.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Yes I expect Djokovic to come back with fire in his belly and to be challenging the top probably by the clay season at the latest.

Murray exposes the players beneath him to a degree Wawa never will. On the flip side when Wawrinka gets rolling against the top players he's a more challenging proposition outside of grass imo.
Yep makes sense.
 
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