Williams' NO to Indian Wells

saram said:
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....
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So because you never heard Noah with any racial issues means it never happened to him?!? And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena???

I reall don't get what you're trying to convey. They don't ressurect the issue. What about people giving the WS the platform to speak. If they skipped the tournamen (now for what 7-8 years), and people just got on with business as usual, would we be having this discussion???
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason, and employ double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of other players, which leaves only one, possible motivation for the continued hostility.

If race is an issue, it is squarely in the minds of the critics.
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I just wat to see someone address this.
 
gj011 said:
LOL I should just remind you who won the real Basketball World Championship in Indianapolis in 2002. And which country has the most of them. I know lots about Basketball which is extremely popular in Serbia, and I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

I can give you that Kobe is probably more popular, but Manning no way.
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You didnt address what NamRanger said though. If those aforementioned NBA stars are not extremely popular globally why were they instantly mobbed and bombarded by a horde of excitable fans in Beijing upon their arrivals, and sought out for autographs and attention their whole time there basically.
 
TheTruth said:
MagPro said:
1st step in ending racism or any problem is admitting there is a problem... Racism is alive and well in the U.S. I can speak from past experiences. If you are not a minority or have been a victim of it you wouldnt know. Those Morons that were alive in the 50s making blacks sit in the back of the bus etc..are still around, just a bit older and most of those idiots were allowed to have children. So what do you have, little bigots that are grown today.
Dont give me the Obama is president so we cant possibly have racism here in the good ol' USA speech. Guess who has had the most death threats in the time he has held office??? I wonder who that is? And to anyone who is about to tell me if I dont like it here then I should leave. I love the US but, we are not perfect.
If they dont want to play thats there decision! If they get fined they obviously dont care. If you are willing to stand for something then, you pay the consequences. Thats what most people arent strong enough to do. We need more people who are willing to stand up for what they think is right! More power to them.
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Great post!
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Seconded!!!!!!!!!!
 
thalivest said:
You didnt address what NamRanger said though. If those aforementioned NBA stars are not extremely popular globally why were they instantly mobbed and bombarded by a horde of excitable fans in Beijing upon their arrivals, and sought out for autographs and attention their whole time there basically.
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It's ok, his argument just got blown up so he's trying to pull the Nadal_Freak 2 post jump tactic to get off topic.
 
flying24 said:
Well Maria has won 3 majors, so in fairness she isnt exactly a reincarnation of Kournikova. :) Still her hype and popularity far exceeds the second tier great player she is.

Kobe and LeBron are definitely very popular, but still not as popular as the top stars of the 80s and 90s. They are the best and most marketable of a current NBA field that isnt quite what it was in the past.
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80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.
 
gj011 said:
LOL I should just remind you who won the real Basketball World Championship in Indianapolis in 2002. And which country has the most of them. I know lots about Basketball which is extremely popular in Serbia, and I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.

I can give you that Kobe is probably more popular, but Manning no way.
Click to expand...



So Olympics Basketball doesn't count for anything? Sure, the USA didn't win in 2002, but they played like crap as usual for most of the decade in international events. They got their act together for the Olympics and pretty much dominated most of the way.



Wait, where was Serbia again? Damn, I don't even remember!
 
NamRanger said:
80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.
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Well I agree there. Kobe and LeBron are undoubtably very popular even overseas. Far moreso than any WTA player outside Maria and the 2 Williams (Henin was a great player of course but she was never a star outside of the sport of tennis) and even moreso than Maria and the 2 Williams in fact. I would hope nobody is suggesting Jankovic or Safina come anywhere near the global popularity of Kobe and LeBron, ROTFL!
 
NamRanger said:
It's ok, his argument just got blown up so he's trying to pull the Nadal_Freak 2 post jump tactic to get off topic.
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LOL. There was no need to address that. Djokovic and Ivanovic were also mobbed on the Olympics, like many other less or more known stars.
 
NamRanger said:
80s and 90s was the heyday of basketball internationally. However, to say that Kobe and LeBron are not popular internationally, is just plain out wrong. Because truth is, they are. They play a flashier game, and appeal to a larger audience than their other foreign counterparts.
Click to expand...

Kobe yes. LeBron not so much. And the fact it that they are way below popularity that Jordan and Magic had. Somebody mentioned Ronaldo and Messi, they are heads above Kobe and LeBron.

Anyway you guys are off topic now. Thundervolley`s claims about global popularity and assuming that whover is popular in the US is popular in the rest of the world were way off marks. Especially about Manning and Armstrong.
 
gj011 said:
Go back and read the news about Olympics instead of trying to troll without any sense.
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Show me one article of Jelena Jankovic getting mobbed by anyone outside of Serbia. Thanks for the joke though, as I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at the sheer thought of Jankovic being mobbed by fans.
 
gj011 said:
I am telling you again, not that many people care about NBA globally any more.
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The high-dollar international endorsements of American stars only possible due to their global popularity/visibilty laughs at your comment.

Meanwhile, Djokovic his female countrywomen draw a total blank to the average person around the world.

There are reasons...................
 
grafrules said:
Show me one article of Jelena Jankovic getting mobbed by anyone outside of Serbia. Thanks for the joke though, as I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at the sheer thought of Jankovic being mobbed by fans.
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Still trolling. Now go back and read again my post you quoted originally.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
The high-dollar international endorsements of American stars only possible due to their global popularity/visibilty laughs at your comment.

Meanwhile, Djokovic his female countrywomen draw a total blank to the average person around the world.

There are reasons...................
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LOL. Which international endorsements Manning gets? :roll:
Now you go back and check how much money are Rolex and Yonex paying to Ivanovic, for example.
 
saram said:
I have heard of NOTHING racial towards or about the Williams sisters or anything surrounding the Williams sisters except on a few occasions. And those occasions are when Richard opens his fat mouth and every year when IW comes around and they boycott the event and we speak of it again.

I think Venus and Serena are the best two players on tour over the last four years--but every time they (or their father) opens their mouth, it is about MLK, Malcom X, Obama, blacks and equality--this or that or how the world was against us. I'm sorry--the story is old and trying.

Half of my friends are minorities--yet none of them carry a trump card around and pull it out of their arses every chance they get--they just carry on and live as everyone else.
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Richard Williams doesn't help himself and i won't defend him because he is wrong, but the Williams did suffer back in 2001 or there just would be no reason for them to skip the tournement. I'm not sure i agree with you that every time they open their mouth its to do with being black and what not, thats not really the problem its that fact that they are standing by not going and people should just respect that and it ends there.

I don't hear them repeating this story all the time it is the media that keeps bringing it up or they are always asked and so they respond. The story is old so yes lets move on and leave them to not going ot IW. Again i don't hear them pulling out this trump card and maybe your friends have not suffered racial abuse or not to their extent not all black/minorities as you put it suffer the same level of racial abuse and how it affects one person may not affect others in the same way. Racial abuse to any one of any colour is hard to deal with, its not easy to get through and not easy to get over.

We don't know about the unseen and unheard things that they have been through so don't be so quick to think its just about IW and it ends there.

Please be a little sensitive because this is a sensitive subject this lack of respect is what will gain you negative responses.
 
gj011 said:
LOL. Which international endorsements Manning gets? :roll:
Now you go back and check how much money are Rolex and Yonex paying to Ivanovic, for example.
Click to expand...

Get this folks: here we have a guy claiming Ivanovic is some global high earner (particularly for a product not as widely purchased on average as the kind of products usually sold by the American stars which speaks volumes about the market).

Keep dreaming that the Serbians are even in the conversation of globally known athletes--or the true breakout stars of their own sport. Because the latter is so painfully not the case for them (and never will be, judging from their less-than-stellar "skills"), and is not supported by...hmm..er...FACTS, your argument is merely defensive.

...unless you really want to say that Ivanovic and Jankovic are on ANY equal standing with the Williams sisters in terms of history, success and popularity around the world.

Go on....please say that.....
 
gj011 said:
Still trolling. Now go back and read again my post you quoted originally.
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If there is any evidence that exists in print that this happened why are you not only able to post a link to it. I am not going to waste my time searching info on a player I dont even give a damn about, which I am pretty certain doesnt even exist. You are the one who is her fan so I am sure if there was ever any print of Jelena being "mobbed by fans" in Beijing (LOL) you would be able to show it. So either put up or shut up.
 
grafrules said:
If there is any evidence that exists in print that this happened why are you not only able to post a link to it. I am not going to waste my time searching info on a player I dont even give a damn about, which I am pretty certain doesnt even exist. You are the one who is her fan so I am sure if there was ever any print of Jelena being "mobbed by fans" in Beijing (LOL) you would be able to show it. So either put up or shut up.
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Go back and read my post. I didn't mention Jankovic, because I didn't read anywhere about her. At the time I read about Djokovic and Ivanovic being mobbed by fans at the Olympics.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Get this folks: here we have a guy claiming Ivanovic is some global high earner (particularly for a product not as widely purchased on average as the kind of products usually sold by the American stars which speaks volumes about the market).

Keep dreaming that the Serbians are even in the conversation of globally known athletes--or the true breakout stars of their own sport. Because the latter is so painfully not the case for them (and never will be, judging from their less-than-stellar "skills"), and is not supported by...hmm..er...FACTS, your argument is merely defensive.

...unless you really want to say that Ivanovic and Jankovic are on ANY equal standing with the Williams sisters in terms of history, success and popularity around the world.

Go on....please say that.....
Click to expand...

As I said go check her contracts with Rolex and Yonex.
Anyway the hard fact is that Ivanovic and even Jankovic get more international (meaning not from the home country) endorsements than Menning, because simply no one outside US cares abut NFL and Mennng is not getting any.
 
gj011 said:
As I said go check her contracts with Rolex and Yonex.
Anyway the hard fact is that Ivanovic and even Jankovic get more international (meaning not from the home country) endorsements than Menning, because simply no one outside US cares abut NFL and Mennng is not getting any.
Click to expand...

...revealing how you "forget" to make comparisons to the Willaims sisters or the others mentioned.

But i'm all ears; tell us how the Serbian women surpass the sisters in endorsements, popularity and general visibility......
 
TheTruth said:
Monfils and Tsonga are French and therefore not under America's cultural bias.

Blake is mixed, black and white and also not in the William's shoes.

Please let me know if you're African-American, I think that makes a world of difference.
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I am, and the country is still as racist as 40 years ago, they(the Whites) just try to hide their racism
 
gj011 said:
Kobe yes. LeBron not so much. And the fact it that they are way below popularity that Jordan and Magic had. Somebody mentioned Ronaldo and Messi, they are heads above Kobe and LeBron.

Anyway you guys are off topic now. Thundervolley`s claims about global popularity and assuming that whover is popular in the US is popular in the rest of the world were way off marks. Especially about Manning and Armstrong.
Click to expand...



Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.
 
NamRanger said:
Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.
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Well in fairness he has alot haters in France, but I dont know if it like that throughout Europe. Of course having alot of haters doesnt mean he doesnt also have alot of fans.
 
flying24 said:
Well in fairness he has alot haters in France, but I dont know if it like that throughout Europe. Of course having alot of haters doesnt mean he doesnt also have alot of fans.
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Well, he's definitely well known across most of Europe at the very minimum. The man is an inspirational story for anyone (if you don't believe the steroid allegations of course).
 
NamRanger said:
Armstrong is not popular? Uh, what planet do you live on? I'm pretty sure winning 7 Tour De France and steroid allegations alone is enough to make Armstrong pretty damn well known around the world, let alone his incredible story of surviving cancer and coming back and having a successful cycling career.
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Armstrong is known, but as I said already cycling is way less popular worldwide than tennis.
 
saram said:
Actually--cycling is more popular. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.
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Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.
 
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gj011 said:
Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.
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Unless I'm mistaken, I am pretty sure tennis is one of the least popular sports out there.


http://thenextweb.com/2008/07/18/tour-de-france-channel-attracts-almost-21-million-viewers/


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7492943.stm


I'm pretty sure I just won. Tour De France nets almost 21 million viewers, while Wimbledon only netted 12.7 million viewers. And that's with Lance Armstrong gone, and the most epic final ever.
 
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NamRanger said:
Unless I'm mistaken, I am pretty sure tennis is one of the least popular sports out there.


http://thenextweb.com/2008/07/18/tour-de-france-channel-attracts-almost-21-million-viewers/


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7492943.stm


I'm pretty sure I just won. Tour De France nets almost 21 million viewers, while Wimbledon only netted 12.7 million viewers. And that's with Lance Armstrong gone, and the most epic final ever.
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No you didn`t. 12.7 million viewers were watching the final in UK on BBC only, that is one in 5 people in UK. Pretty impressive.
LOL you really think that Wimbledon is watched by only 12 million viewers overall worldwide.

While 21 millions is for many days covering the race.
 
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gj011 said:
Got numbers to prove that?

There is simply no way that cycling is more popular. They have two big races, but RG or Wimbledon are followed and watched by way more people than Tour de France or Giro d'Italia.
Click to expand...

During the mountain stages of the Tour, between 700,000 and 1,000,000 people show up in person on a daily basis. More attendance in one day than the last eight Super Bowls combined.

More people watch one stage of the Tour in the Alps than ALL visitors of any tennis major for the entire two weeks combined.
 
saram said:
During the mountain stages of the Tour, between 700,000 and 1,000,000 people show up in person on a daily basis. More attendance in one day than the last eight Super Bowls combined.

More people watch one stage of the Tour in the Alps than ALL visitors of any tennis major for the entire two weeks combined.
Click to expand...

You can put as many people as you want on the side of the road, while tennis stadiums have limited capacity. Also how many of those supposed 1000000 are paying and how many just show up since they live close to the track which is hundreds of kilometers long for each stage.
 
gj011 said:
You can put as many people as you want on the side of the road, while tennis stadiums have limited capacity. Also how many of those supposed 1000000 are paying and how many just show up since they live close to the track which is hundreds of kilometers long for each stage.
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What does paying for viewing have anything to do with being a fan and watching the sport? It is still 1,000,000 fans watching in person on a daily basis. That is what makes the sport so darn popular.
 
saram said:
What does paying for viewing have anything to do with being a fan and watching the sport? It is still 1,000,000 fans watching in person on a daily basis. That is what makes the sport so darn popular.
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He's twisting what a "viewer" is because he's losing. Point is, more people watching cycling still.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Buy a clue; there' nothing racial about the statement--which describes the desires of the Tracy Austins of the world--never shy about stating their love for certain kind females, while incessantly blasting the sisters (without question, the greatest players of 2 generations) for no justified reason, and employ double standards when "forgetting" the "sins" of other players, which leaves only one, possible motivation for the continued hostility.

If race is an issue, it is squarely in the minds of the critics.
Click to expand...

I just want to see someone address this.
 
saram said:
You know, Monfils and Tsonga are just as black as Richard, Venus, and Serena--yet never seem to have these issues surrounding them, do they? Never heard Noah with troubles, matter of fact--never hear anything inclusive to racism with anyone on tour outside of the Williams family.

If they would go play the darn tournament--maybe the past would be left in the dark and behind us.

But no...

The prima donna's continually resurrect this every single year that IW comes around. I'm sure we'll hear Richard spout off somewhere in the next week or so....
Click to expand...

So because you never heard Noah with any racial issues means it never happened to him?!? And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena???

I reall don't get what you're trying to convey. They don't ressurect the issue. What about people giving the WS the platform to speak. If they skipped the tournamen (now for what 7-8 years), and people just got on with business as usual, would we be having this discussion???
 
380pistol said:
I just want to see someone address this.
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Probably not; I pointed out (to gj011) of the two generations (Davenport, Hingis/Belgians, et al, being one, then the Sharapova/Myskina/Serbians, et al, being the other) the sisters are the greatest players with the biggest impact of women's tennis (certainly its visibility to the average person despite he sport's overall decline which says much about their status).

Of course, some will either tap dance around this with attacks on irrelevant matters:

1.Richard Williams.

2 Off-court pursuits--which other limited or no-slam wonders have but are rountinely given a free pass by Williams critics...

3. Serena's fitness--apparently not stopping her from winning slams.

....in the event the attacks are shattered (usually the case), then expect pumping up Sharapova (no significant impact on the sport other than her being the 2nd stage, post-Kournikova "tart" marketing experiment, or perhaps a certain somene will cheerlead for the Serbians' status...which is comedy writing itself anytime someone tries to use the words "great" near their names.
 
380pistol said:
And cuz Monfils and Tsonga have not ecountered any racist issues, then that means it couldn't have happened to Venus or Serena??
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In the minds of some Williams haters..no, as the positive experience of another applies to everyone, thus Venus and Serena could not have faced racism at all....yeah....that really works...
 
saram said:
That is so flippin' ridiculous. I rarely get offended. But to call me racist just makes me want to blow my top at you.
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Me too. I'm so sick and tired of everyting being "racist" if any black doewsn't get their way. if you don't like it here and it's so bad go to another country! PLEASE!!!
 
mctennis said:
Me too. I'm so sick and tired of everyting being "racist" if any black doewsn't get their way. if you don't like it here and it's so bad go to another country! PLEASE!!!
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^ At last. Forever proving the argument of racism against the Williams sisters.

Few posts are so tailor-made.
 
Good for them. If the children of those colonist treated me like that then I would not show up again either

Its just a shame that the good people in india wont be able to see them play due to the actions of idiot visitors in their country
 
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