Wilson Clash the Most Flexible Racket Ever Made?

Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
#1
Wilson is going to great lengths to marketing this.

TW has it rated as a 55 stiffness

The Prince Phantom Pro 100 is rated as a 54 on their site...

It's a solid racket, I just found this to be a bit odd.

thoughts / comments?
 
#3
Vantage BastCore series is RA 49.
Kneissl Reach Twice RA 54.
Dunlop Classic Pro Revelation RA 55.

This type of stiffness works pretty well when combined with some weight. Without weight, the racquet becomes flimsy.
 
#4
Wilson doesn't use RA to test flexibility. They use their "Stiffness Index" which is the scale where it is more flexible. Check out their Facebook page, it has it listed at 11.2mm, compared to other current and old racquets, including the Jack Kramer woodie which is the second most flexible in their post at 9.7mm. They claim it's 78% more flexible than any other current frame. That's what they've said on Facebook at least, maybe someone from Wilson could explain how they measure it or how they came up with the 78% mark.
 
#6
Head Elektra Pro is 45 RA
Head Club Pro - 37 RA.

So, Definitely not "the most flexible ever made". If they used that exact phrase in advertisement, they could be sued.
Well, there can always be an asterisk citing "By our own proprietary testing devices."

Marketing folks know how to get around these things with fine print disclaimers.
 
#7
Wilson doesn't use RA to test flexibility. They use their "Stiffness Index" which is the scale where it is more flexible. Check out their Facebook page, it has it listed at 11.2mm, compared to other current and old racquets, including the Jack Kramer woodie which is the second most flexible in their post at 9.7mm. They claim it's 78% more flexible than any other current frame. That's what they've said on Facebook at least, maybe someone from Wilson could explain how they measure it or how they came up with the 78% mark.
They will be revealing the machine soon.
 
#8
Hi.
I'm using Wilson Clash at the moment and don't find it that flexible/soft. I strung it with the same strings/tension as my Wilson Ultra tour and I can tell that Ultra tour is more flexible and softer. IMO

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#9
Hi.
I'm using Wilson Clash at the moment and don't find it that flexible/soft. I strung it with the same strings/tension as my Wilson Ultra tour and I can tell that Ultra tour is more flexible and softer. IMO

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Jura,
Can you tell me more about Clash?
 
#10
Jura,
Can you tell me more about Clash?
I find the racquet pretty crisp.
It's not hurting the arm but I definitely wouldn't call it a soft racquet.
Maybe I'm the only one feeling this way but after playing the Ultra tour the Clash feels more crisp/less soft.
Don't get me wrong, Clash is not a stiff racquet like Burn but it's not buttery as Ultra Tour. IMO


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#12
Thanks for the replies guys. I have both a clash and a clash tour prototype and was just curious with that fact.

I actually find these frames to play quite nice. I thought was just going to be a recycled burn, but it plays a lot better
think pure drive that doesn't kill the arm

I didn't find it to play ungodly flexible, but it was a comfortable ride on groundstrokes. I think Wilson will sell a ton of this frame in all honesty.
 
#13
Has everyone seen the Wilson video of them manually bending the clash? Looks crazy. Wonder if you can do that with the phantom pro and how that type of flex impacts how a racquet plays.
 
#14
So really while there is stats for flex and RA... perhaps what we really have to talk about is - bend?

Tip bend, a bit like the drilled holes at 3 and 9 in the Head flexpoints?

(Am not trying to buy into the hype but will be interested to know/feel what makes it different)
 
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#15
I find the racquet pretty crisp.
It's not hurting the arm but I definitely wouldn't call it a soft racquet.
Maybe I'm the only one feeling this way but after playing the Ultra tour the Clash feels more crisp/less soft.
Don't get me wrong, Clash is not a stiff racquet like Burn but it's not buttery as Ultra Tour. IMO
Thanks!
You just saved me the time and aggravation of making a trip/return trip and demoing the Clash.
 
#16
Wilson used to make Bold, one of their cheapest racquets. If memory serves, it also had RA of around 55. Or was it 50?
 
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TagUrIt

Professional
#17
Hi.
I'm using Wilson Clash at the moment and don't find it that flexible/soft. I strung it with the same strings/tension as my Wilson Ultra tour and I can tell that Ultra tour is more flexible and softer. IMO

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What strings did you use? What tension setting? I did some research and learned that it’s better strung at a lower tension.
 
#20
I wonder how this racquet feels. It has a 55RA but a width of 24.5mm. It kind of reminds me of the discount frames sold at the big box stores with low RA and thick beams. However, those racquets are flexible by virtue of being cheap and not by design.
 
#24
Give the clash a year or so to see if it stands the test of time like the prestige’s did. If you see a lot of clash in the secondary markets or if other major tennis retailers including TW puts these on sale, then you know the truth about clash. I personally prefer thin beams with great feel. What is clash’s main selling point? More flexible and pocketing? I get that same thing with my prestige mids using gut/poly stringing at my desired tension. Some people may like clash but I am not spending 250 for a racket.
 
#25
Wilson is going to great lengths to marketing this.

TW has it rated as a 55 stiffness

The Prince Phantom Pro 100 is rated as a 54 on their site...

It's a solid racket, I just found this to be a bit odd.

thoughts / comments?
RE:
Wilson Clash the Most Flexible Racket Ever Made?
"Ever" ? All wood rackets were much more flexible. These are rackets correct? Many older school graphite rackets were more flexible, 30..40's like max 200g and rossi F200
 
#26
RE:
Wilson Clash the Most Flexible Racket Ever Made?
"Ever" ? All wood rackets were much more flexible. These are rackets correct? Many older school graphite rackets were more flexible, 30..40's like max 200g and rossi F200
Based on Wilson's Facebook post, it is more flexible than the Jack Kramer wood frame. That's the only wood frame they included in the chart though.
 
#27
i dont really understand this sudden obsession with soft flexible racquets. As a junior there were only wooden racquets available. The first stiff graphite racquet , An Adidas gtx lendl type, i applauded. It was my first stiff racquet, way better then the former soft racquets.
Also you dont feel the ball any better with a flexible racquet. Already 30 years ago it was established with high speed cameras that the ball has left the stringbed, when those racquets are still deforming thereby losing energy and precision. For better feel use stiff racquets.
 
#28
i dont really understand this sudden obsession with soft flexible racquets. As a junior there were only wooden racquets available. The first stiff graphite racquet , An Adidas gtx lendl type, i applauded. It was my first stiff racquet, way better then the former soft racquets.
Also you dont feel the ball any better with a flexible racquet. Already 30 years ago it was established with high speed cameras that the ball has left the stringbed, when those racquets are still deforming thereby losing energy and precision. For better feel use stiff racquets.
Have you ever suffered from TE (tennis elbow)?
 
#29
Have you ever suffered from TE (tennis elbow)?
Maybe you are not old enough but also during my junior days with only heavy flexible wooden racquets there were plenty of ladies with sloppy backhands who got TE.
Now that i am older and play irregular myself and i have less tennis trained muscle i sometimes feel pain around the elbow. This is purely by suddenly playing too much.
So dont blame your racquet for that.
 
#33
I believe the Wilson Triad XP5 is so soft it's can't be measured!
On my journey to find a replacement for my Max 200G, that began last summer, I tried out more than a dozen rackets.
I ended up buying a few.
The Triad XP5 was one of them.

It's true, the flex is so great that they don't even give it a number.
It's a great racket that flies under the radar screen.

It has it all really.
Power, comfort and control.

It needs to be beefed up however to get the swing weight up and plow through working.
Somewhere between 323-327g is the sweet spot.
 
#34
The phantom pro is a noodle frame with a thin beam and thoroughly falls apart in defensive situations. Not sure if this clash noodle frame with a thick beam can solve that problem.

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#35
I believe the Wilson Triad XP5 is so soft it can't be measured!
Yes because its a two part frame.
Not sure that would give it any control.

I think sometimes people mistake control with spin. "I can spin my shots in so I can control them." It's a totally different thing than the control you get with a midsize 18x20, where the ball just goes where you want it point and shoot style. There is no way you are getting that from a 103 sq in flexible frame with 16x19 string bed. You'll get comfort, spin and power. It will come at the cost of control.

If you could get midsize control with the XP5 then it would be a perfect racket. There is no perfect racket.

Unless that racket is the Clash. But I'm not sure I'm buying the Phantom crossed with a Pure Drive reviews.
 
#36
Yes because its a two part frame.
Not sure that would give it any control.

I think sometimes people mistake control with spin. "I can spin my shots in so I can control them." It's a totally different thing than the control you get with a midsize 18x20, where the ball just goes where you want it point and shoot style. There is no way you are getting that from a 103 sq in flexible frame with 16x19 string bed. You'll get comfort, spin and power. It will come at the cost of control.

If you could get midsize control with the XP5 then it would be a perfect racket. There is no perfect racket.
I am not mistaking spin with control.

The XP5 delivers lots of control.
I also have the first generation Triad 5 which was the pits!

It was one of the most comfortable rackets I ever played with and had lots of power too.
It had one small problem though. It had no control. :(

The Triad XP5 fixed that.
 
#37
There is no way you are getting that from a 103 sq in flexible frame with 16x19 string bed. You'll get comfort, spin and power. It will come at the cost of control.
It is not a 16x19 frame.
You get power, comfort and control.
Try the racket out. Then come back here and make your proclamations.
 
#38
So really while there is stats for flex and RA... perhaps what we really have to talk about is - bend?

Tip bend, a bit like the drilled holes at 3 and 9 in the Head flexpoints?

(Am not trying to buy into the hype but will be interested to know/feel what makes it different)
For those of you who don't know or haven't observed an RA machine. The racket flex is measured with a bar that presses down on the throat of the racket. This not the best measure of a racket's flexibility as few (hopefully) of us actually contact the ball in the throat of the racket. The RA measurement actually tests the flex at the mid point of the racket. SI measures the flexibility of rackets from butt cap to tip. The grip is secured and a weight is attached to the tip of the racket. The amount the racket bends is the SI number in millimeters. For the Clash it is 11.2mm, Wilson Pro Staff 97CV 6.4, Babolat Pure Drive 5.2, Head Prestige Pro 7.5. In my opinion, this measurement is more accurate as to what you actually "feel" when you strike the ball.
 
#39
For those of you who don't know or haven't observed an RA machine. The racket flex is measured with a bar that presses down on the throat of the racket. This not the best measure of a racket's flexibility as few (hopefully) of us actually contact the ball in the throat of the racket. The RA measurement actually tests the flex at the mid point of the racket. SI measures the flexibility of rackets from butt cap to tip. The grip is secured and a weight is attached to the tip of the racket. The amount the racket bends is the SI number in millimeters. For the Clash it is 11.2mm, Wilson Pro Staff 97CV 6.4, Babolat Pure Drive 5.2, Head Prestige Pro 7.5. In my opinion, this measurement is more accurate as to what you actually "feel" when you strike the ball.
Ah coolt hanks for that, so with an SI of 11.2mm, measured across the whole of the frame, this would be the most flexible frame? I'm not sure why any marketing dept would chase such a statement, but I guess I can sort of see why - flex = no TE or something.

It's pretty obvious from slo-mo hi-frame rate capture that the throat of a racq wobbles all over the place after making contact, less so hoop and handle. I guess with reason the throat is a key measurement site therefore.

The Wilson mrktg dept also claims "carbon mapping" in the layup - "bending in new dimensions" - what do you make of that - that perhaps they have distributed flex throughout, wider than the throat area, or that they have concentrated flex there?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timnew...w-clash-tennis-racket-franchise/#54bff52f278a
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
#40
Yeah, there's many ways to measure and define flexibility. I do love people conflating RA with feel here as if the former is equivalent to the latter. RA is just ONE way to make the concept of stiffness measurable. Wilson's SI is a different rating. Does it matter in the end? At most in guiding racquet purchase. What really matters is what the individual feels/observes on the court though.
 
#42
RA is unfortunately not a good way to measure racquet flex. The main pressure point is measured from the throat of the racquet, completely different from real on court impact where the pressure point is the players hand.

Also rdcs are not able to be calibrated and the reading can be different up to +/- 5 depending on the user. This is why you'll see such drastically different readings even if it's an identical racquet.
 
#43
Head Elektra Pro is 45 RA
Head Club Pro - 37 RA.

So, Definitely not "the most flexible ever made". If they used that exact phrase in advertisement, they could be sued.
I think it’s marketed as the “most flexible racket in the current market” and even includes a disclaimer that says the data is based on internal stiffness index testing. IMO the SI system makes more sense than RA anyway.
 
#44
Well, as I've said before, I'm not buying the hype until I've seen some feedback from players that still play sticks from the 80s. Those frames with fiberglass in them had true flex you could feel. I think this Clash frame is going to be a weak imitation personally. Hopefully it will at least be good enough to start a return to frames with feel. If it's not and doesn't sell well I would think it's going to be even longer before we get some new frames that have old school feel to them.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
#45
Well, as I've said before, I'm not buying the hype until I've seen some feedback from players that still play sticks from the 80s. Those frames with fiberglass in them had true flex you could feel. I think this Clash frame is going to be a weak imitation personally. Hopefully it will at least be good enough to start a return to frames with feel. If it's not and doesn't sell well I would think it's going to be even longer before we get some new frames that have old school feel to them.
This is decisively not an old school frame not was it designed to be one.
 
#46
This is decisively not an old school frame not was it designed to be one.
It seems my suspicions are being confirmed. If I run into someone who has bought one, I'll probably try to get a quick hit in to see what it's like, but it doesn't sound like it's what I would be looking for.
 
#50
It is not a 16x19 frame.
You get power, comfort and control.
Try the racket out. Then come back here and make your proclamations.
Darn I was at the TW demo tent and didn’t test the XP5. Forgot about this thread. Power, Spin, Comfort and Control. The perfect frame. Not sure why Wilson bothered with the Clash which has power, comfort, spin and no control. They already had the answer in the XP5.

Maybe I’ll give it a whirl next year.
 
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