good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Wilson Defyer 98 Pro V1
- Thread starter thenewbig3
- Start date
And players sometimes/often hit a plateau in their development. New kind of racket can give a boost in motivation to keep pushing on. If the new racket is different enough to the one you are used to it may be a catalyst for discovering some new sensation to unlock say heavier forehand etc.I understand people’s opinions on equipment, technique, etc. But I find it disrespectful to insult people’s level.
I respect people for learning the game of tennis. 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, or higher.
It’s better to learn and stick with tennis than play pickle ball.
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konstantinos kalfountzos
Hall of Fame
Agzetabyte
Rookie
I dont really think Tim is insulting his level. More like you need to be a certain level for your opinion to be taken seriously because if you are in that 3.5 range any problem you have with the racket can be explained by your technical deficiency. I read most of the opinions here but I only actually consider what people with a similar level and playstyle and rackets they like match mine. Any 3.5 to even 4.0 is better of buying a speed MP or any racket they like the feel of and putting in time on the court no amount of tinkering is going to fix the fact they lack a split step and don't hit the ball clean. I also agree that trying new rackets allow you to optimize your connection to your stroke and understand how to make the ball do what you want through your hands. But no new racket is going to allow someone who lacks basic fundamental footwork and spacing to even go through that process.I understand people’s opinions on equipment, technique, etc. But I find it disrespectful to insult people’s level.
I respect people for learning the game of tennis. 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, or higher.
It’s better to learn and stick with tennis than play pickle ball.
can someone compare defyer 98 to ultra pro 99 please i need to decide and cant demo
WNCSRVVLLY
New User
I've played them both so I can give you my 2 cents, but would need more info... what racquet are you playing with now? What is your play style/level?
Out of the box, the UP99 is much more of an actual "pro" level racquet than the defyer. I've seen stock swing weights with that racquet as high as 334. UP99 is an absolute weapon from the baseline, but you have to be able to swing it. With 16x18 string pattern in a relatively powerful racquet you also need to be ready to string at quite high tension with a stiff poly. I was using 1.25 tour bite at 54 lbs and it still felt somewhat "springy." I have a friend that was stringing his with 1.30 alu rough at 58lbs.
Personally I found the Defyer 98 pro to be much more manageable in stock form and could be seen by many as a platform racquet. The two that I have came in at 316 and 320 swingweight stock. I added weight to mine and it was still well below the previous spec I was using with PS97. The defyer is also much more well-rounded and responsive to input. What you get out will be more equal to what you put in vs the UP99.
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heavyD
Hall of Fame
That statement is kind of insulting in itself in a tennis forum where it's very likely most posters are in the 3.5-4.0 range. I don't take anything Tim says seriesly because he has poor forum etiquette also in regards to level, like many of us he probably overestimates how good he really is. Everyone that plays tennis regardless of level I take seriously because that's their personal experience but if they are going to be a jerk, then I simply don't have time for that type of person.
jklos
Professional
The Ultra Pro 99 that I demo'd was close to even balance and had SW of 330+. It was super hard to swing and maneuver at least at my level (4.0/4.5). If you don't mind heavy swinging racquets then I'm sure it's fine and can hit a big ball. The D98 is very headlight and much easier to swing but with less stability and plow but I still find it plenty stable with just enough power.
From your last sentence i understood that basically up99 doesnt need any customization and is ready to go unlike defyer and that itself is enough reason to…i don’t understand how you can say that what you out in up99 is not what you will grt out if despite it being more powerful and stable than defyer
ClownCar96
Professional
Any idea how it compares to the RF leather in terms of weight added? Usually RF is ~4g
EggSalad
Hall of Fame
The Solinco Synthetic leather is like 14-15g installed, so it pretty much weighs the same as all stock synthetic grips.
ClownCar96
Professional
Good! I’m going to put this on instead of RF to keep static lower. Thanks for the recommendation. I think I have one laying around fingers crossed.
Got my non-demo frames in today. Going to keep the 306g, 288sw.
WNCSRVVLLY
New User
What I mean is that the Defyer is more responsive more connected and has a lower launch angle. What you put into it is going to be what you get out. The UP99 can give you a very loopy/spinny ball off the multitude of different swings because of the high launch angle. I also found the UP99 to be much less predictable with volleys.
If I were a baseline grinder I'd grab the UP99. I'm more of a precision doubles player and for that I prefer the Defyer.
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Hesi
Rookie
basically the crux of it for me. there are even times I don't disagree with his points, but his messaging and attitude is very poor.
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thatguymattin
Professional
there’s a certain point where it becomes a waste of time for everyone
idk about you guys, but I’d rather talk about the racquet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
idk about you guys, but I’d rather talk about the racquet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Agzetabyte
Rookie
How is it insulting to say you don’t trust someone’s opinion until they meet a certain standard lol just because most posters are in that range. Would you trust a Lawyer before they passed the Bar or a Pilot to fly your plane before 1000 hours. I’m not demeaning these people or saying they are undeserving of having an opinion. I am saying when you are commenting on a racket that is hard to use you have to be able to use it before you can comment on its performance. I respect the person who uploaded the video, that takes a lot of courage.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
So, this racket isn't better than an Aero, Ezone, Vcore, or whatever Head's darling racket is, is it? I see the good and bad here in the thread, seems mostly positive but no one is going so far as to declare it that level.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
and although Tim the buck is crass and abrasive and perhaps a troll, there are many.....mannnny here who fib about their level, or even allude they play tournaments/seriously/etc. when they really don't (like zero UTR matches in years) so, it is what it is. Back to the fun.
ChrisJR3264
Legend
I feel like I’m going to hold off on the Defyer. Simply bc I’m gelling with the vcore 100D. The unspoken gem of the year. I did have it for sale bc I wanted a Defyer but pulling it.
Defyer is good and all. But if something else works , why mess with it?
Atleast for another month
My experience is a bit different - bc the racket is kind of controlled, I was able to, well, redline it under pressure and blast the ball and keep it in. I think the maneuverability did allow me to generate a bit more rhs than I do with the PA98 and I think that helped too.
There were times I wanted more power on the serve like with the 23PA98, but I think that will come with me finding a way to uncoil that extra rhs on the serve too.
So far for me it's amazing. I'm a long-time Blade 16x19 user but have tried all those sticks you mention plus Gravity Tour 98, TFight, Fire, and in the end I overhit with all of them when I got a little tight and lacking energy to put 100% effort into max topspin every shot. For me this D98 pretty much provides the same power as all of these, but is more controllable. Can just swing all out with lots of confidence. The D98 is unique in a subtle way IMO. Mine's modded to 352g / 338 SW in playing form and is rock solid and stable and plows like a truck, but not harsh on the arm/wrist.
ChrisJR3264
Legend
352?
Dang that’s beefy with the 338 SW. been there when I had an iso. Slapped so much weight to the handle. Not bad. Great feel.Don’t know if I’d go that heavy again.
Mine was a little under spec at 284 SW unstrung, so 7g of lead around the top of the hoop matched up with the natural SW of my pro stock Blades. The rest of that 352g is in the handle and buttcap, so it adds recoil weight without making it unwieldy.352?
Don’t know if I’d go that heavy again.
Cayenne321
Rookie
It doesn't do the things those racquets do well any better than any of them, but it does it with better control and Wilson Feel™.
People who prioritise control and feel aren't going to be looking at this kind of frame though, because you'll get better control out of a gravity or blade and better Wilson Feel™ from a Prostaff.
It's really good at being a middle ground racquet, much like the Radical, but usually people don't go out of their way to chase a middle ground racquet.
Agzetabyte
Rookie
I think that level is more of a result of being vary playable rackets by many playstyles etc. There are rackets that are just as good as those rackets but do not fit as many people and as such get much less hype. The defyer seems to be a pretty good racket just a bit less mainstream appeal than the ones you listed. If you are willing to give up a little performance for feel than its def worth a demo imo
thenewbig3
Hall of Fame
There is no "better" or "best" racket. if it works for you, lets you play well, you like the look and give you confidence then its better and closer to best (for the specific player)
jtp90
New User
that's exactly what I've done to all of my 3 P98. Added 2g @3&9, and I even peel off the backing of RF leather to make it only a 2-3g increase compare to stock grip.
Turn out played exceptionally good at 292-293SW, 31.3cm, 306-307g unstrung.
I am doing this exact comparison at the moment, i.e. D98 vs Vcore 95 2026. However, my Vcore 95 has been modified (leather grip plus lead at 3+9) whereas the D98 is in pure stock form except for an over grip. If I remember correctly, my first impression of the Vcore 95 while still in stock form played surprisingly similar to the D98 except that the Vcore has a noticeably higher launch angle. Both are very nice and super fast through the air. I do find that backhand slide feels easier with the Vcore; and kick serve comes easier and heavier with the Vcore too. D98 feels a bit more plush and extremely stable and powerful in stock. I also have the T Flight 305S but I haven't compared them side by side, memory tells me that it is quite different from the other two.
thatguymattin
Professional
I got fed up with confidential soft, thought it might shine but ended up feeling too bland.
Think Mach 10 would really shine in this frame like someone else suggested here, but instead splurged and strung it up with lux gut 1.30 and 4G 1.25 @54/49.
My previous sj’s include RPM team 1.25 @48/45 and confidential soft 1.25 @45/43. Much preferred rpm team than confidential soft, but I think the cross being 4lb lower compliments the frame, the launch angles way more linear for me in general with this frame.
Think Mach 10 would really shine in this frame like someone else suggested here, but instead splurged and strung it up with lux gut 1.30 and 4G 1.25 @54/49.
My previous sj’s include RPM team 1.25 @48/45 and confidential soft 1.25 @45/43. Much preferred rpm team than confidential soft, but I think the cross being 4lb lower compliments the frame, the launch angles way more linear for me in general with this frame.
einca13
Rookie
As I posted earlier, I am a ex-college player that plays Wilson H22’s (16x19 - same mold as the retail Blade Pro) which in my opinion are the best feeling frames ever created. I play them at 334g, 32.3, 330SW with Lynx Tour/Ghostwire.
The D98 intrigued me as so many H22/Blade Pro users have switched and a little extra free power/spin could be nice. So I finally picked one up so I could give it a go. With a leather grip, overgrip and dampener it came out to 334g, 32.3 and 327SW. I didn’t add lead as I wanted to try it first without before adding a gram to match my H22 SW at 330. Same 1.25 Lynx Tour/1.22 Ghostwire 49/47 setup.
After 6 hours on the court a few observations:
- Overall a relatively easy transition from my frames, which are demanding. I would say a little more power, moderate improvement in spin, but a noticeable decrease in control. The H22’s have a very tight string pattern in the sweet spot. I found the D98 shots were hitting a larger spray pattern than with my frame. Some of this may be attributed to lack of hours on the D98 though.
- The feel while not as raw or connected as the H22, is much closer than I thought it would be. The D98 held its own and I would give it a solid 8 out of 10 versus the perfect 10 for the H22.
- One thing that surprised me in a negative way was I found the D98 to be more sluggish. This doesn’t make sense is it was matched except for actually being a slightly lower swingweight. Also the H22 is a box beam, which is definitely not known for being a whippy frame. Maybe I am not used to the thicker beam?
- I have never hit my backhand better than with the D98 other than the one time I hit a Gravity Pro 18x20. It was dialed in. Slices were also improved.
- Volleys were about the same with the H22 being a touch more solid.
- A little more pop and kick on the serve with the D98, but was missing my spots a little more. But relatively the same overall.
- The forehand was the biggest difference and so far it is not entirely positive. With my H22, I can do pretty much what I want to do with the ball. I can flatten out or go heavy topspin with excellent accuracy, although it defaults to a more linear ball. The D98 had a higher launch, which I expected but I had trouble finding consistent depth control. I would be switching back and forth and I would instantly find more control with the H22. My hitting partner commented that my H22 was just the same consistent shot over and over with excellent depth, but when I switched to the D98 it was not. He did say by far the heaviest shots were from the D98 when I found the groove. It sure would be nice to have the depth control of the H22 and the super heavy ball of the D98.
- Comfort was fine, but I don’t have any arm issues. I did notice the grip seems bigger. This could be due to the new leather grip which hasn’t compressed yet, but even the tapered end seemed a little bigger.
That is a long review for me to say I am intrigued, but not sold on it. There are some things to gain, but still many questions. I will continue to play around with it and see where it goes. Maybe Lynx Tour isn’t the right string? Maybe add more weight and get to my 330SW, but it already felt a little sluggish For me, at this point it is not a switch but if I can get the forehand figured out it may be tempting.
The D98 intrigued me as so many H22/Blade Pro users have switched and a little extra free power/spin could be nice. So I finally picked one up so I could give it a go. With a leather grip, overgrip and dampener it came out to 334g, 32.3 and 327SW. I didn’t add lead as I wanted to try it first without before adding a gram to match my H22 SW at 330. Same 1.25 Lynx Tour/1.22 Ghostwire 49/47 setup.
After 6 hours on the court a few observations:
- Overall a relatively easy transition from my frames, which are demanding. I would say a little more power, moderate improvement in spin, but a noticeable decrease in control. The H22’s have a very tight string pattern in the sweet spot. I found the D98 shots were hitting a larger spray pattern than with my frame. Some of this may be attributed to lack of hours on the D98 though.
- The feel while not as raw or connected as the H22, is much closer than I thought it would be. The D98 held its own and I would give it a solid 8 out of 10 versus the perfect 10 for the H22.
- One thing that surprised me in a negative way was I found the D98 to be more sluggish. This doesn’t make sense is it was matched except for actually being a slightly lower swingweight. Also the H22 is a box beam, which is definitely not known for being a whippy frame. Maybe I am not used to the thicker beam?
- I have never hit my backhand better than with the D98 other than the one time I hit a Gravity Pro 18x20. It was dialed in. Slices were also improved.
- Volleys were about the same with the H22 being a touch more solid.
- A little more pop and kick on the serve with the D98, but was missing my spots a little more. But relatively the same overall.
- The forehand was the biggest difference and so far it is not entirely positive. With my H22, I can do pretty much what I want to do with the ball. I can flatten out or go heavy topspin with excellent accuracy, although it defaults to a more linear ball. The D98 had a higher launch, which I expected but I had trouble finding consistent depth control. I would be switching back and forth and I would instantly find more control with the H22. My hitting partner commented that my H22 was just the same consistent shot over and over with excellent depth, but when I switched to the D98 it was not. He did say by far the heaviest shots were from the D98 when I found the groove. It sure would be nice to have the depth control of the H22 and the super heavy ball of the D98.
- Comfort was fine, but I don’t have any arm issues. I did notice the grip seems bigger. This could be due to the new leather grip which hasn’t compressed yet, but even the tapered end seemed a little bigger.
That is a long review for me to say I am intrigued, but not sold on it. There are some things to gain, but still many questions. I will continue to play around with it and see where it goes. Maybe Lynx Tour isn’t the right string? Maybe add more weight and get to my 330SW, but it already felt a little sluggish For me, at this point it is not a switch but if I can get the forehand figured out it may be tempting.
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Pretty much how I'm feeling/where I'm at with my defyer.
I use an 18x19 Blade and feel like what I gain isn't enough for what I'm giving up.
Also feel like some of the spin I'm gaining isn't making the ball heavier necessarily.
My shots may be a bit flatter with my Blade but they're heavier and I can whip up spin when I need it.
Cayenne321
Rookie
I've found this as well. The more weight I add to the hoop, the more it becomes sluggish at a rate that feels faster than I'm used to. Still tinkering but I might drop the lead from 3&9 and just watch the ball better / hope for better contact.
_FrankTheTank_
Semi-Pro
The maneuverabilty has been hyped way to much. there is no magic with weight distribution on most units, just a few tweaks. weight in the lower hoop with modern layup provide some decent stability with a fast tip speed and maneuverability, but adding weight to the hoop will take it's toll and might be mulitplied by modern head shapes.
You will read the same on recent PA98s and VC98s which tend to have a similar weight distribution (compared to like a Speed tour 97).
You will read the same on recent PA98s and VC98s which tend to have a similar weight distribution (compared to like a Speed tour 97).
Jono123
Hall of Fame
That's the Defyer in a nutshell. The Blade's output is directly proportional to your input.
Not so with the P98. You can tee off from anywhere at any time, making it more versatile and offensive.
evalir
New User
I think this is fair. I think a lot of the hype comes from the disappointment with the most decent PA. This frames feels closer to how things were before, and the lower swingweight makes people feel their shots, especially the serve, have more juice on them.
If you’re coming from a classic control or box beam frame you’ll take some time to get adjusted to this frame. The mechanics are slightly different due to the nature of it. Most ppl who seem to be at home are PA/Extreme/tweener switches.
Yes, I like it.
Although I never used it with the stock grip.
Depending on the weight of your grip though it can move the balance a good bit and then you need a little weight in the head to shift the sweetspot back up.
I currently have 2.5g split at 10/2 and it definitely added the power I felt I was missing but the launch is a bit high, may need to add a couple lbs tension.
JeanF
New User
Yesterday I had a good practice session on clay and had enough time and possibilities to test and compare the Defyer 98 after some relevant changes in my set-up.
As already mentioned here my first impressions with the Defyer 98, strung with Alu Power (soft) were not really convincing and absolutely not accordingly the overwhelming positive impressions of many youtube reviews.
Compared to one of my current favorite rackets (Head Speed Tour 97) I found the Defyer 98 feeling very muted and therefore I was really missing some good ballcontact feel, and furthermore it took me a lot of effort to achieve the same amount of court penetration and acceleration as I can hit easily with my Speed Tour 97's.
Despite the fact that so many people seems to pretend that the Defyer 98 - Alu Power combi should be ''a match made in heaven'' I could not get convinced about it at all after my first impressions, so I chose to change the string to one of the strings that worked out almost perfectly in all the rackets I have played with in the past and that's Head Lynx Tour (grey) 1.20 mm.
My personal experience with the 1.20 mm. version compared to the 1.25 mm. version is that it gives me better ball pocketing and feeling less stiff. Another advantage is that the 1.20 mm version is comparable with other 1.25 mm. strings with regard to weight and therefore will not add more swingweight.
The results of this string change can be called impressive... away was the heavily muted feeling (now comparable with the slightly muted feel of the Speed Tour 97) and what appeared was a really good ballcontact feel with lots of bite and grip on the ball.
Something what also stood out during my session yesterday was the ability to easy accelerate the ball, which resulted in a lot of court penetration.
Besides the string change I also lowered the weight of the leadtape on the 3/9 h position and that resulted in an even more higher swingspeed and handling feel.
I'm convinced that the Defyer really needs some weight customization to make it enough stable for good intermediate and advanced players.
My hitting partner was serving well yesterday and generated a lot of speed and pressure in his strokes and during the ball impact moments of my return strokes it was clearly noticeable that the frame was twisting, even with the addition of leadtape on the 3/9 h position.
This effect was also noticeable at the net when I blocked and volleyed some heavy passing shots of my hitting partner.
During heavy hit groundstrikes I have not really experienced excessive frame twisting in the hoop, but felt that the throat was flexing quite a lot, something I like and which gives me a better touch and feel.
I still have to get used to the red color, but after these result giving set-up changes I have to admit that the Defyer is growing on me a lot....
Based on this I ordered a second one and will continue to play and experiment with the Defyer 98 the upcoming time.
As already mentioned here my first impressions with the Defyer 98, strung with Alu Power (soft) were not really convincing and absolutely not accordingly the overwhelming positive impressions of many youtube reviews.
Compared to one of my current favorite rackets (Head Speed Tour 97) I found the Defyer 98 feeling very muted and therefore I was really missing some good ballcontact feel, and furthermore it took me a lot of effort to achieve the same amount of court penetration and acceleration as I can hit easily with my Speed Tour 97's.
Despite the fact that so many people seems to pretend that the Defyer 98 - Alu Power combi should be ''a match made in heaven'' I could not get convinced about it at all after my first impressions, so I chose to change the string to one of the strings that worked out almost perfectly in all the rackets I have played with in the past and that's Head Lynx Tour (grey) 1.20 mm.
My personal experience with the 1.20 mm. version compared to the 1.25 mm. version is that it gives me better ball pocketing and feeling less stiff. Another advantage is that the 1.20 mm version is comparable with other 1.25 mm. strings with regard to weight and therefore will not add more swingweight.
The results of this string change can be called impressive... away was the heavily muted feeling (now comparable with the slightly muted feel of the Speed Tour 97) and what appeared was a really good ballcontact feel with lots of bite and grip on the ball.
Something what also stood out during my session yesterday was the ability to easy accelerate the ball, which resulted in a lot of court penetration.
Besides the string change I also lowered the weight of the leadtape on the 3/9 h position and that resulted in an even more higher swingspeed and handling feel.
I'm convinced that the Defyer really needs some weight customization to make it enough stable for good intermediate and advanced players.
My hitting partner was serving well yesterday and generated a lot of speed and pressure in his strokes and during the ball impact moments of my return strokes it was clearly noticeable that the frame was twisting, even with the addition of leadtape on the 3/9 h position.
This effect was also noticeable at the net when I blocked and volleyed some heavy passing shots of my hitting partner.
During heavy hit groundstrikes I have not really experienced excessive frame twisting in the hoop, but felt that the throat was flexing quite a lot, something I like and which gives me a better touch and feel.
I still have to get used to the red color, but after these result giving set-up changes I have to admit that the Defyer is growing on me a lot....
Based on this I ordered a second one and will continue to play and experiment with the Defyer 98 the upcoming time.
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I have a Blade 18x19 and I bought a Defyer, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I've only used Python two or three times; I felt it generated spin, but the ball didn't have much weight after the bounce. It could be my technique or just a matter of adjustment. Initially, I felt that the Blade 18x19 really produced a heavier ball for the opponent, but — as I said — I really think it's necessary to adjust my technique or the racket (the Defyer), because the thicker beam and higher RA should, in theory, deliver a heavier ball. Korda himself seems to have switched to achieve that heavier ball, and commented on a podcast that it took him a while to adapt (he hated the Python at first — his words).
I used the same string and tension on both when I tested the Python.
Assuming his wasn't close to the stock SW anyway. I don't think he shared what the end specs are of his. Or has he?
In the case of the Python I tested, the SW was 5 points lower than the Blade, and the Blade was 4g lighter. The balance was very similar.
ChrisJR3264
Legend
I’m curious after listening to Deiter on the change over podcast. The more elliptical beam rackets don’t need as much weight and SW.
Korda's P98 was at 315sw unstrung, just like his Blade was. Was posted somewhere on IG I think. Ton of lead inside the throat visible. He's basically getting ball speed from weight not rhs, new frame just gets the ball to dip in a nicer more predictable way, Blade 18m always required to cover the ball completely to get it to drop inside the base line. Hubi now has that issue since he switched, since his fh grip and technique aren't western/full cover, so many long fhs
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
While being off topic in this thread, the new VCore 95 is an amazing racquet to play with. It is very fun to use and offers so much easy power compared to
the Boom Pro, Gravity Tour 98 (which I found annoyingly flexible). I do think that those 2 racquets sort of trained my strokes to using that head shape though.
thatguymattin
Professional
It’s been a solid 8/10 for me (no decimal points)
What’s really shined that stood out for me were the serves. Serves are objectively the fastest shot a racquet will travel/be swung and it really shows.
Like others mentioned, the frame really pops when you go after it; sort of exponentially instead of how linear some other racquets are.
That wilson feel/dwell gives you like a moment of confidence idk how to really explain/quantify on contact while serving.
The biggest issue I’m seeing is people comparing the racquets to other frames that play well stock/minimal adjustment while the D98 is straight up a platform racquet that needs customization.
jklos
Professional
It's just as good as those racquets but it just feels different than those mentioned and has slightly different playing characteristics. It's not better or worse.
SupremeCourt
Rookie
A few more hits with the D98. I’ve had the chance to play a few matches, including club tournament where of course I played very tight. Playing tight is not what the D98 likes. If you aren’t really getting your timing right and committing to the shot, the D98 can send off fliers or flubs with no pace. It’s not so forgiving in that aspect. A good reminder to stay committed. Still going to commit to using it for the next little while. I’ve ordered another one. While I Can see why it’s not a hit for everyone for me a Very Good all round racket with some exceptional serving potential.
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