Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by VGP, Jan 28, 2010.
Great photos, schu47 - I always love your photos!
I think we're part of a mutual admiration society. I've long admired your collection and the pictures you've posted on the 80s-tennis website.
Great pics schu47.
Seeing that you really like your SC2000, Tour Select SC, and the Sting, I can totally see how you would feel that the Graphite force is cumbersome and stiff.
For me, the Graphite Force is solid and crisp.
I love the variety of the Wilson mids. The shapes were nearly the same, but the things that were changed were the layup and materials, and the drill patterns for the strings.
To some people, they must think that they all look the same, but we know better don't we.....
Is it crisp like Prostaff original or just a lillte mushy? I think the fiberglass makes it a liitle soft and I prefer the soft feel.
Does it play similar to Graphite Edge, which i've already had one? If it does, i'd better not purchase one from a fellow here in order to save money.
I love Wilson mids too, from early Jack Kramer, Aggressor and Sting to lately Chinese made prostaff 6.0 and KPS88. i enjoyed them all. Each model had its unique feel.
It depends to which PS85 you refer. I think the GFM (Graphite Force Midsize or G-Force Mid) lies somewhere between a Taiwanese PS85 and a Chinese PS85. Very much like a SV PS85. Solid. The fiberglass seems to even out the feel. Similar to the use of kevlar in the PS85s. I'm sure the GFM doesn't have the braided construction. I know that it contradicts the term "crisp" but it's not as flexible as say a Rossignol F200 or a Pro Kennex Copper Ace 90 (those I have). I've never hit with a Head Graphite Edge so I can't compare the two. So I'd say it's solid, crisp, not harsh. I think the thicker beam causes it to flex differently than a Wilson Sting or Pro Staff.
If you can pick up the GFM for a decent price (how much is he asking?) maybe you'd be inclined to give it a whirl.....
I've never hit with the Jack Kramer Staff. I'm sure the braided graphite and fiberglass mix would feel good. It's just that one, like the SV PS85 is pricey on the used market. Haven't been lucky enough to find one cheap yet. I've also never hit with the Aggressor. I get the impression it's like the GFM but with the PWS added.
As for the newer frames, late Chinese PS85 and kPS88, I like them but I don't love them.
I switched from the PK Silver ace to the Aggressor in the mid 80's.
The Aggressor had a bit more heft and abit more muted/softer feel
than the silver ace, as i recall. I had always thought the GF was softer
than the aggressor, but can't really attest to that.
the aggressor was a real nice frame, i never did like the PS85
and they were SV's at the time. too clubby for me, as i recall.
several friends and teammates did take to the PS85 though, some had moved over from the Ultra 2.
Having gone out for a few days, I am sorry for replying late. As for the Graphite Force, the seller asked for 45 bucks. I don't think it worths that much for it didn't look new. So I bought another Graphite Edge TXE, which it is pretty new for 60 bucks.
By the way, I know you are an expert in Wilson mids. Here is a strange PS85 which i consider a fake. Can you help me?
I like the soft feel of aggressor too. It is not too powerful and has lots of control.
Roadway - I'm not really an expert on Wilson mids. I'm merely an enthusiast. $45 is a little high for the GFM, but definitely not bad. But seeing that the frame was an early graphite made without a bumperguard, the top of the frame can take a beating.
I'd love to get my hands on an Aggressor. I just don't wanna pay too much for one.
I've looked at your thread regarding your fake PS85. It does look like one of those frames that doesn't look or feel right. It could be one of those frames that a poster mentioned was manufactured at the factory, but was off spec and should have been discarded but somehow escaped being destroyed.
Although, the decal process is one of the last steps in manufacture. I find it odd that the drill holes are so far off. I think that part of manufacturing happens prior to painting.
There has been some speculation on whether or not there are fake PS85s. Over the years it seems unlikely as the frame to fake would be the SV PS85. I guess the more recent Chinese made PS85s wouldn't escape the counterfeit market just like the n90s, k90s, and kPS88s.
Thanks for so much information, VGP.
Yeaterday, i strung that PS85 at high tension (60lbs) with a poly and it appeared to be less vibrating. Perhaps the loose and springy string bed caused the racquet to resonate with it. When the racquet was strung high, this resonance diminished, so i felt less vibration. Regardless of its authenticity, i begin to like it for its agreeable performance in high tension.
I'm also enthusiastic in mids. I've stocked quite a few for the next 20 or 30 years playing.
I wonder if you can foam inject your "fake" PS85. Maybe if you seal up the grommet holes except for the uppermost ones and shoot some foam up from the handle end. Clear the grommet holes again and replace the plastic parts (I know that's a bit tough seeing you really had to cut them up to get them to fit). That would add heft and maybe some stability to the frame.
As for classic mids, I try to pick some up when I go to thrift stores or used sporting goods shops. If I see a nice quality graphite composite mid for $10 or less that's in good shape, it really makes my day.
Yes, I hope to inject foam to the racquet. But i didnt see a machine doing that. Is there a machine for injecting foams?
I am very jealous that you can pick up a great racquet at such low price. In China every dealer intently raise these old racquets' price for they know somebody like me enjoys these racquets and i had to pay at least $40 for each.
Still playing with WGF ?
Just wonder if any posters in this thread are still using this stick.
I just pick-up one myself based all these positive posts. Will post some pix soon.
KLE, please share your experience.
I'm still using mine......
Pix of stick before any cleanup and beautification
After clean up and put on TW leather grip and Gamma Ovegrip.
Balance is 6 pts HL and 13 oz (371g).
I will play with it tomorrow and post my finding. Swing heavier than my current Dunlop 4d 100 but felt very balance and compact. Can't wait to find out how it strike a ball .
KLE - your frame looks nice with the rejuvenated handle.
How did you like it?
I like that you'd be able to compare it to a Dunlop 4D 100, a nice compact mid in and of itself......
I just picked up a Graphite Force a few weeks ago. I'm running low on PS85's
and didn't want to pay the high e-bay prices so I found a GF at a thrift
shop. haven't tried it out yet. Need to restring it first. The strings in it look
10+ years old.
See how it feels with the strings intact also to get a feel of the frame at low tension. It's one of my favorite sticks, such a solid performer. KLE how do you like the frame on the courts?
Wilson Graphite Force vs Dunlop 4D100
The best racket that I ever played with from baseline. It generated so much power and spin that I can feel shots after shot. Balls from my WW FH has a nasty forward kick according to my friend that I was hitting with. This stick gave me so much confident in hitting all kind of shots, FH, BH, Slice, Topspin lob.
The ball contact was so solid and it made an incredible pop sound that made me want to hit balls all day long. Last but not least, I felt no vibration. This is a weird but pleasant feel.
The downside is at the net. I reacted much slower with it than with my Dunlop 4D100. Also with shots that came off from a net person, I could not move the racket fast enough to cover those quick return shots. The racket felt heavy for net play. I need to be 30 years younger and able bench press 200 lbs with 10 reps min.
4D100: 11.7 oz - 6 pt HL
Graphite Force: 13 oz - 6 pt HL
I will compare this Wilson with my new Muscle Weave 200 G next time.
Thanks for sharing your initial experience KLE.
I love the frame off the ground. Like you, I was very surprised to find the amount of "action" I could get on the ball.....for groundstrokes AND serves.
My experience at the net is much different than yours. My regular hitting partners commented on how much better my volleys have been since switching to the Graphite Force. The only things I can pin down are the balance being a little more head-heavy than the setup I have with the PS85 and the more even string spacing of the GFM gives a little more spring, but I don't feel like I'm losing control.....
I'm looking forward to your comparison to the Muscle Weave 200g. People that use that frame go on and on about the feel of it. I would love to hear your comparison of that to the GFM.
Just restrung with Wilson Extreme Synthetic Gut 16... looking forward to wielding her on the court this week!
Just picked one up myself. A few scrapes but overall I'm impressed by the condition considering the age. Just cut out the old strings and grommets look to be in great shape. Can't wait to put in some fresh string and see how she hits.
How'd it go? Or did you get too distracted with your Ultra Kevlar 95?
Good to hear the grommets on yours are good. Some of mine are pretty shot. Let us know how it goes......
I have to reiterate that I love this stick. It adds a ton of aggressiveness to my ground game. Downside is that I really have to commit to volleys, but when I do, they are great.
I hit with the graphite force a week before the Ultra 95; love the Graphite Force, always in my bag. Felt really sweet, a bit unwieldy that night on the serve due to the weight I think, hitting a lot long esp on second serve. Grinds well on my 1HBH and solid on FH. Not down with the Ultra 95; doesn't feel in the "range" for me to tweak my game around... My ideal on the Wilson side would be a compromise between the Reflex and Graphite Force, but tops for me is still Head TXE with Graphite Force comfortably in second...
I bought a Head Graphite Force in 8th grade (in 1984) at an Oshman's Sporting Goods store for $50. I remember the details of the purchase vividly, because my mom gave me $60 in cash to buy it after school, and the whole day I kept touching my bookbag's side pocket to make sure the money was still there. I recall making a tough decision between this racquet, the Pro Kennex Copper Ace, and a fiberglass Spaulding racquet. I won my first junior tournament with the Graphite Edge. Overall, a decent racquet, but I have to say that it was inferior to the Sting, Sting II, and certainly the PS 85. Those racquets had more stability and power.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The racket I chose at the time was the Prince Response 90.
I agree that the Graphite Force may not be considered "as good" as the Sting, Sting II, and Pro Staff Midsize, but I don't know what it is about the Graphite Force that I like so much.
I have all the frames you mentioned. Including the Head Graphite Edge. The Graphite Edge sure is a log, and I don't say that lightly. The Sting and Sting II are firmer and the Pro Staff is more stable. The braided graphite/kevlar feels like it has more internal "grab."
But if I had to describe the Graphite Force in comparison, the moderate flex and thicker beam have an "airiness" that I quite enjoy.
I know that I don't hit the way I did 15 years ago. Right now, my strokes and the Graphite Force feel like they mesh ok.
After all these years I feel like I've come full circle. I mentioned the Prince Response 90. That frame has a graphite/kevlar/fiberglass mix. Along with the Graphite Force, I'm enjoying the Yonex R-22. Both of those frames are graphite/fiberglass.
Oh yes the R-22. That was one sweet stick!!! I loved hitting volleys with that thing. So precise and so much touch and feel. IMO a better volleying stick than even the Max 200 G
Wow. It's been a while since I've posted to this thread.....
Anyway, funny how much a "brand new" Wilson Graphite Force will go for on e-bay....
It sold for $98 plus $9.90 shipping. (I am neither the seller nor buyer)
Not bad for a frame that normally goes for $20 bucks shipped.
It does look stunning.....
Nice PJ and overal nice clean shape due to the lack of PWS....SEXY..!!!(Normally adding two bulges makes something more attractive, not removing them.. )
I could see someone pay about that price because it's in n.o.s. condition and plain dropdead gorgeous.
A beauty! Stringing w/gut?
I just missed a DOS Prince Graphite 90 Pro on the big site for 19.99... gutted!
I wasn't the one that bought it. I can't justify spending $110 on a racket that I'm sure I wouldn't use.
The collector in me would keep it as is.
Although I'd love to read the hang tag.
The dollars that I'm saving are going to my current interest of building lap steel guitars.
This was my first attempt:
<wistful sigh> The Graphite Force was, IIRC, the subject of my earliest forays into the entire TalkTennis forum and the fruit of my earliest adventures in regular thrifting...it's gonna be 2013 in a matter of days...how time flies!
Yeah that's a lotta cash for a DOS graphite force - pretty though... mind you, the DOS Prince for 19.99 would be worth a spin... anyhow, back to the thrift adventures online and at the local stores... cheers to all...
I didn't Perfect match for the 9 condition one I picked up last week for $7 at Goodwill. I strung that up with OSGM 17 @55 and am playing great tennis with it. After a few more outings like that it may become my go-to stick.
nice one jonestim... let us know how she hits! I am off to pick up head TXD from post office today...
Finally had a chance to hit with my Graphite Force.
A couple sets of doubles on clay.
I normally play with a PS85 or K90. The Graphite Force is a bit heavier
and head heavier. It was harder to hit volleys but on serves it was a
beast. Pretty sure I can hit harder serves with it. It definitely has more
power than the PS80 but it is a bit harder control.
Funny that. I found volleying better with the Graphite Force over the PS85.
I was very surprised to prefer the head-heavier balance.
I also find it a little tough for half volleys. For groundstrokes, if I can
get used to the weight, it seems like it might be pretty good. The ball
definitely has a flatter trajectory with this racquet vs the k90 or ps85.
Anyone find a good solution for replacement grommets?
(e.g. cutting up a another set of grommets that are close + tubing)
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