Wilson H22 vs Angell TC97 18x20

AMGF

Hall of Fame
I recently purchased a pair of H22s. I always have been curious to see how these frames hit and when I saw a couple of those for sale with almost the exact same specs as my tried and thrusted TC97s I just couldn't resist. So my TC97s are 27,5", 18x20, 340g strung and 360sw, my H22 are 27,5", 18x20, 333g and 360sw.

I have now played about 2 hours with the H22s and I have a good feeling for the frame already. The reason is simple, the H22 and TC97 are really similar. So similar that I can switch from one to another without missing a beat. If I could play blindfolded and you gave me either one I'd have a hard time telling which one is which.

Comfort, the biggest difference is probably here. The H22s are softer (58ra) however the TC97 doesn't really feel any stiffer. It might be the foam in the frame, but I'd say the TC97 is more comfortable even if it is 3 or 4 points stiffer.

Power, slight edge to the H22, but we're splitting hair. Either one at 360sw just crushes the ball. At the serve, the H22 is maybe a bit more powerful too, but probably because of the lower weight allowing a bit more acceleration. Again, splitting hair.

Control. Everybody knows the TC97 is the king of control. The H22 is a perfect match. There are not many frames anywhere that will touch either of these frame for precise vertical and lateral accuracy.

Spin. Well if you have problems generating spin, these are not the best tools. But if you have the RHS to make them work, they will provide all the spin you need. I have no trouble generating enough spin to push my opponent's back to the wall and they will both slice low balls that will bounce knee high. I'd be hard press to pick one over the other.

The big difference is in the flex. Some say the TC97 flexes in the head. I always disagreed with that. However, when playing the H22 and TC97 back to back, yeah, the TC97 seems to have a more flex in the head while the H22 feels more uniform and by comparison, has a stiffer head vs the TC97. But the sweet spot feels a bit higher in the TC97 than the H22. I tend to hit higher in the stringbed, so to me, the TC97 feels a bit better.

So in conclusion, if you always wanted to play a H22, you can just order a TC97. They play really close one to another. But with Angell, you can easily get grommets (in many colors) you can also order one with your exact specs and not some pros'. But if you really want to try a H22, just buy one, it is a great frame.
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
Here are some pictures of the two frames. The head shape is nearly identical. The H22 is a bit thicker. The string pattern is really really close with the Angell a bit more open in the top, which may contribute to the softer feeling when you hit higher in the stringbed but idk for sure.

 

letstakeourshirtsoff

Professional
Everybody knows the TC97 is the king of control.
are you guys getting paid by angell tennis for these posts on here? pretty much any 6.0 / 6.1 by wilson offers much more control, let alone the H22; same goes for the control/pro stock sticks by head, prince volkl and so forth. this overhyping needs to stop imo.

The big difference is in the flex. Some say the TC97 flexes in the head.
no **** sherlock! those people might just say that because you know... it does! and that is exactly the reason why these sticks perform subpar when it comes to both power and control. and that's also why you will never see an ATP player play one of these mass produced gimmick sticks that are only designed to make rec players feel special because their handle says 'custom' on it and the chinese putting these together in the thousands put a little foam inside the stick. seriously, you people are so gullible.

I bet OP couldn't tell the difference between his 'magic' angell and a walmart stick if he was given a blacked out version of both.

the emperor's new clothes...
 
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stephenclown

Professional
Here are some pictures of the two frames. The head shape is nearly identical. The H22 is a bit thicker. The string pattern is really really close with the Angell a bit more open in the top, which may contribute to the softer feeling when you hit higher in the stringbed but idk for sure.

Thanks for the post, the 97 is a great frame in the 18x20, so solid but so maneuverable. Thinking about using it as a backup to my TC90 and then giving my girlfriend my 95 for some extra power, flex and comfort
 

stephenclown

Professional
are you guys getting paid by angell tennis for these posts on here? pretty much any 6.0 / 6.1 by wilson offers much more control, let alone the H22; same goes for the control/pro stock sticks by head, prince volkl and so forth. this overhyping needs to stop imo.



no **** sherlock! those people might just say that because you know... it does! and that is exactly the reason why these sticks perform subpar when it comes to both power and control. and that's also why you will never see an ATP player play one of these mass produced gimmick sticks that are only designed to make rec players feel special because their handle says 'custom' on it and the chinese putting these together in the thousands put a little foam inside the stick. seriously, you people are so gullible.

I bet OP couldn't tell the difference between his 'magic' angell and a walmart stick if he was given a blacked out version of both.

the emperor's new clothes...
Wow get mad. Every major frame apart from Yonex is mass produced in China. You will never see an ATP player with anything that doesn't pay them to play. Tennis is an incredibly expensive sport to play at the professional level so why would they pass up pay cheques? When Paul Angell produced frames for Dunlop they were played with on tour and these frames are basically newer generations of those. Heck, even Federer plays with a mass produced Chinese frame, if you think the Chinese are incapable of producing high quality frames you are ignorant and delusional.

He was talking about the 18x20 TC97, it is completely different to the 16x19 pattern, so incredibly tight and I doubt that 6.0 / 6.1 offer loads more control because that is BS. In fact, recent 6.0's and 6.1s have issues because of Wilsons pathetic QC. Want 2 frames 20 grams apart and 5 pts different in balance point? Buy retail Wilson.

So instead of posting inflammatory stuff, please open your mind and understand that there are large differences between poor and quality Chinese manufacturing. It just matters how much you are paying and your relationship with the producers. If you don't like a frame I don't give a ****, but acting like a tool isn't appreciated.
 

letstakeourshirtsoff

Professional
Wow get mad. Every major frame apart from Yonex is mass produced in China. You will never see an ATP player with anything that doesn't pay them to play. Tennis is an incredibly expensive sport to play at the professional level so why would they pass up pay cheques? When Paul Angell produced frames for Dunlop they were played with on tour and these frames are basically newer generations of those. Heck, even Federer plays with a mass produced Chinese frame, if you think the Chinese are incapable of producing high quality frames you are ignorant and delusional.

He was talking about the 18x20 TC97, it is completely different to the 16x19 pattern, so incredibly tight and I doubt that 6.0 / 6.1 offer loads more control because that is BS. In fact, recent 6.0's and 6.1s have issues because of Wilsons pathetic QC. Want 2 frames 20 grams apart and 5 pts different in balance point? Buy retail Wilson.

So instead of posting inflammatory stuff, please open your mind and understand that there are large differences between poor and quality Chinese manufacturing. It just matters how much you are paying and your relationship with the producers. If you don't like a frame I don't give a ****, but acting like a tool isn't appreciated.
I'm well aware of wilsons atrocious QC as I have stated numerous times on these forums. You have to pick&match them obviously. what are these recent 6.0/6.1's you're talking about though?

I'm also aware that pretty much any retail stick is either made in china or taiwan. nowhere did i slander chinese manufacturing. I was merely pointing out that these oh-so-magic angell sticks are nothing special, probably built by the same guys who also produced those oh-so-bad wilsons you mentioned, with same QC. difference is that the genius behind angell tennis puts some weight into his frames himself afterwards to make the frames match which in turn makes you guys rave about the oh-so-fantastic QC of angell . do you guys even realize you are playing frames with a base weight of 290g and have up to 40g of lead in your frame just to give you the impression of a custom built?

but it's ok. keep buying the snake oil. I have talked to a bunch of respectable stringers/prostock customizers and they all think it's the newest joke on the block...
 

stephenclown

Professional
I'm well aware of wilsons atrocious QC as I have stated numerous times on these forums. You have to pick&match them obviously. what are these recent 6.0/6.1's you're talking about though?

I'm also aware that pretty much any retail stick is either made in china or taiwan. nowhere did i slander chinese manufacturing. I was merely pointing out that these oh-so-magic angell sticks are nothing special, probably built by the same guys who also produced those oh-so-bad wilsons you mentioned, with same QC. difference is that the genius behind angell tennis puts some weight into his frames himself afterwards to make the frames match which in turn makes you guys rave about the oh-so-fantastic QC of angell . do you guys even realize you are playing frames with a base weight of 290g and have up to 40g of lead in your frame just to give you the impression of a custom built?

but it's ok. keep buying the snake oil. I have talked to a bunch of respectable stringers/prostock customizers and they all think it's the newest joke on the block...
Wow you are oblivious, you use this as an attack at Angell but that is all frames on the planet. Do you honestly think that Pro Stock Wilson/Head have some magical dust in them to make them weigh more than a carbon fibre hairpin? Why would you pay for any pro stock when it is all just a 250g hairpin with pallets, silicone, lead and usually leather grips? I suppose Paul Angell has learnt nothing since he was head designer of Dunlop, just a fluke that pros used his frames and he is just a snake oil salesman. Keep dreaming, I have also talked to local stringers who have worked with ATP players and they have heard of, used Angell and recognise the quality of materials used. Some people don't like them, so what? No frame is the holy grail of the frame world for everyone, that is not how the world works.

On top of $$$ for new wilson frames you have to pay extra to get them matched?? Great Business model and customer support, so glad that other people can clean up Wilsons mess.
 

letstakeourshirtsoff

Professional
Wow you are oblivious, you use this as an attack at Angell but that is all frames on the planet. Do you honestly think that Pro Stock Wilson/Head have some magical dust in them to make them weigh more than a carbon fibre hairpin? Why would you pay for any pro stock when it is all just a 250g hairpin with pallets, silicone, lead and usually leather grips? I suppose Paul Angell has learnt nothing since he was head designer of Dunlop, just a fluke that pros used his frames and he is just a snake oil salesman. Keep dreaming, I have also talked to local stringers who have worked with ATP players and they have heard of, used Angell and recognise the quality of materials used. Some people don't like them, so what? No frame is the holy grail of the frame world for everyone, that is not how the world works.

On top of $$$ for new wilson frames you have to pay extra to get them matched?? Great Business model and customer support, so glad that other people can clean up Wilsons mess.
reread my last post. once again; I'm not the one putting either angell/the rest above the others. it's you guys who get all moist about the 'custom' aspects of these sticks.

and of course angell learned something at dunlop; how to get the most money out of gullible customers like you that is...

btw, I never payed extra to get matched sticks. I also don't go out and buy the newest paintjob every year; that stuff is snake oil too, just like the 'custom' thing with angell.
 

stephenclown

Professional
reread my last post. once again; I'm not the one putting either angell/the rest above the others. it's you guys who get all moist about the 'custom' aspects of these sticks.

and of course angell learned something at dunlop; how to get the most money out of gullible customers like you that is...

btw, I never payed extra to get matched sticks. I also don't go out and buy the newest paintjob every year; that stuff is snake oil too, just like the 'custom' thing with angell.
The 'custom' thing costs no money, it is a free matching service with the balance and weight that you desire. How is that snake oil? Do you understand what you are saying means nothing? All custom matching is snake oil, you heard it here first boys.

AMGF did not say that he put them above the rest as well, he said that in his opinion his 18x20 TC97 is comparable, equal or better than his H22 pro stock. Thats not to say that pro stock would be better for everyone as well, I am positive that some people prefer the tinny and stiff feeling new age babolats. Further to this, he hasn't tried every frame on the planet so how can he hold them above all else? I myself use them because I am happy with how they play, not saying they are better than everything as I haven't played everything... but they are better than everything that I have hit with in the last few years for me.
 

letstakeourshirtsoff

Professional
The 'custom' thing costs no money, it is a free matching service with the balance and weight that you desire. How is that snake oil? Do you understand what you are saying means nothing? All custom matching is snake oil, you heard it here first boys.

AMGF did not say that he put them above the rest as well, he said that in his opinion his 18x20 TC97 is comparable, equal or better than his H22 pro stock. Thats not to say that pro stock would be better for everyone as well, I am positive that some people prefer the tinny and stiff feeling new age babolats. Further to this, he hasn't tried every frame on the planet so how can he hold them above all else? I myself use them because I am happy with how they play, not saying they are better than everything as I haven't played everything... but they are better than everything that I have hit with in the last few years for me.
costs no money? so you think angell's business model would still work at the current price point if it wasn't for the customization gimmick?
keep drinking that kool aid. I'm outta here.
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
Too bad the thread didn't stay on track more than a few minutes. Just a few observations:

-All frames except a few prostock (and Yonex) are made in China. No big deal.

-I also have 6.1 frames, I've been playing with the original one (16x19) almost 30years ago, solid frame, I still have it in my bag. Doesn't have the control of the TC97, not even close. The 18x20 control is pretty good, but lacks in maneuverability and spin (I do have one of those too).

-ATP player will never play with an Angell unless he gets payed to. Just like any pros with any brand. If Babolat was to stop paying their players they'd all move to a brand that'd pay them. At least those good enough to get $ out of it.

-Very few ATP players play with retail sticks. Even when they do, they get matched frames from the factory. So unless you buy a prostock, you never play with what the pro are using.

-Customizers do exactly what Angell does to customize frames. Only they add sillicone in the handle instead of lead. But sometimes they use lead too (like Nole and the large amount of lead tape around his handle). They will match the frames the same way Angell does. There is no magic, only good old physics. Customizers can't change the hairpin, in fact, prostocks usually start their life as really light hairpins in order to be able to be customized. Customizers can't change the graphite layup either. Their options are to use sillicone and lead to customize the frame.

-Angell frames are not magical, they're as good as the specs you have them built at. Even if I didn't like the H22s, that wouldn't mean that they suck. But I would explain why I think so. I actually think they are pretty good. But not worth paying 2x what a TC97 costs.

-Some people don't have the maturity to interact on public forums.
 
Too bad the thread didn't stay on track more than a few minutes. Just a few observations:

-All frames except a few prostock (and Yonex) are made in China. No big deal.

-I also have 6.1 frames, I've been playing with the original one (16x19) almost 30years ago, solid frame, I still have it in my bag. Doesn't have the control of the TC97, not even close. The 18x20 control is pretty good, but lacks in maneuverability and spin (I do have one of those too).

-ATP player will never play with an Angell unless he gets payed to. Just like any pros with any brand. If Babolat was to stop paying their players they'd all move to a brand that'd pay them. At least those good enough to get $ out of it.

-Very few ATP players play with retail sticks. Even when they do, they get matched frames from the factory. So unless you buy a prostock, you never play with what the pro are using.

-Customizers do exactly what Angell does to customize frames. Only they add sillicone in the handle instead of lead. But sometimes they use lead too (like Nole and the large amount of lead tape around his handle). They will match the frames the same way Angell does. There is no magic, only good old physics. Customizers can't change the hairpin, in fact, prostocks usually start their life as really light hairpins in order to be able to be customized. Customizers can't change the graphite layup either. Their options are to use sillicone and lead to customize the frame.

-Angell frames are not magical, they're as good as the specs you have them built at. Even if I didn't like the H22s, that wouldn't mean that they suck. But I would explain why I think so. I actually think they are pretty good. But not worth paying 2x what a TC97 costs.

-Some people don't have the maturity to interact on public forums.
Thanks for the thread! I actually really appreciate the information that h22 is similar feeling to tc97 18x20. I play with the 16x19 tc97 and after some lead under the bumper, its been an awesome stick for me. Have you ever got to hit with the 16x19 tc97 ? I have read from many that its very different than the 18x20, would love to hear your opinion (if indeed you have tried both) on their differences besides the string pattern. Thanks!
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
nothing wrong with promoting what you like. this subjective forum sure opinions are based on what they/you or you like, or what you don't like. new kool aid comes out every year. lots got to have it and some are happy with what they got.
it is all personal preference. to me it is all about just using what is best for you and your game. the fun part of this forum for me is trying to help and guide. it really does absolutely no good to the cause here to belittling and putting down, best to let go of the ego. we are pretty much on the same team. so you can choose to help or not..if you are not going to help, put a shirt on and go play tennis ....
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the thread! I actually really appreciate the information that h22 is similar feeling to tc97 18x20. I play with the 16x19 tc97 and after some lead under the bumper, its been an awesome stick for me. Have you ever got to hit with the 16x19 tc97 ? I have read from many that its very different than the 18x20, would love to hear your opinion (if indeed you have tried both) on their differences besides the string pattern. Thanks!
I actually started playing with the TC97 16x19 first. But then Paul asked me if I wanted to try the 18x20. The precision was what sold me to it. Sold my 3 16x19 to another coach friend that still plays with them. The launch angle on the 18x20 is lower and suits my game style much better. I've played with 18x20 frames most of my life, I tried to switch to 16x19 and did play them for a few years but the TC97 was very natural feeling to me.
 
I actually started playing with the TC97 16x19 first. But then Paul asked me if I wanted to try the 18x20. The precision was what sold me to it. Sold my 3 16x19 to another coach friend that still plays with them. The launch angle on the 18x20 is lower and suits my game style much better. I've played with 18x20 frames most of my life, I tried to switch to 16x19 and did play them for a few years but the TC97 was very natural feeling to me.
Very interesting! Right now I feel pretty dialed in with the 16x19 tc97 but this has me wanting to try the 18x20 tc97 soon at some point. It been 6-7 years since I played with an 18x20 for an extended period of time, but when going for any next 18x20, tc97 is high up for me now along with the ultra tour.
 

TennisHound

Legend
I haven’t ever tried an Angell but I would choose one over an H22. The H22 was a weird racquet to me. The head feels big and round, and it’s balanced about like a PS97S. I just did not gel with it at all. And I could never find grommets.

I scratch my head at some of the racquets the pros and how they make them work.
 

H22 fan

Rookie
I haven’t ever tried an Angell but I would choose one over an H22. The H22 was a weird racquet to me. The head feels big and round, and it’s balanced about like a PS97S. I just did not gel with it at all. And I could never find grommets.

I scratch my head at some of the racquets the pros and how they make them work.
The H22’s come in different lay ups, maybe you found the ‘wrong ones’ for you.
I have a few pairs of them and each pair has different lay up, different stiffness, balance (uncoustomized), so they fill different and that’s the beauty, same frame different feel and pj.
Somehow I was lucky enough to stock up some grommet sets.
When it comes to Angell, I will never buy their products.
 
Last edited:

rossignol

Rookie
The H22’s come in different lay ups, maybe you found the ‘wrong ones’ for you.
I have a few pairs of them and each pair has different lay up, different stiffness, balance (uncoustomized), so they fell different and that’s the beauty, same frame different feel and pj.
Somehow I was lucky enough to stock up some grommet sets.
When it comes to Angell, I will never buy their products.
Never say never
 

pfrischmann

Professional
The H22’s come in different lay ups, maybe you found the ‘wrong ones’ for you.
I have a few pairs of them and each pair has different lay up, different stiffness, balance (uncoustomized), so they fell different and that’s the beauty, same frame different feel and pj.
Somehow I was lucky enough to stock up some grommet sets.
When it comes to Angell, I will never buy their products.

Hi H22,
What do you have against Angell?
 

pfrischmann

Professional
So just my $.02
I've tried a few Angells and they are all quality sticks. I've never had a racquet tech who knows what he is doing or a serious player scoff at the quality of the Angells. It's nice to have a company that essentially offers a customized service and very good quality control. I ended up selling most of my Angells as they weren't for me but the guys I sold them to love them.
 

H22 fan

Rookie
In that case it would have been better to state that you are happy with your current frame and are not looking to buy other rackets. You made it sound like you hate Angell products..
I Can say that I do not like the shape of the mold, mostly the throat area.
 

Jouke

Semi-Pro
So just my $.02
I've tried a few Angells and they are all quality sticks. I've never had a racquet tech who knows what he is doing or a serious player scoff at the quality of the Angells. It's nice to have a company that essentially offers a customized service and very good quality control. I ended up selling most of my Angells as they weren't for me but the guys I sold them to love them.
What did you switch to?
 

Tennisist

Semi-Pro
I wonder if you have the Blade Pro Stock? Do you have a regular blade, and could you put it side-by-side with H22?
The reason for this is that H22, from all people who tried it, is reported as stiff. In contrast, the Blade Pro Stocks are reported as very soft ( softer than H19 ).
This is why I have this suspicion. H22 has a very square (box) beam, and you seem to have a roundish beam of the blades ( although it is hard to judge from the photos taken en face). Blades are also known to be head heavy, and this matches with 360sw that goes along with 333g weight.
 

H22 fan

Rookie
I wonder if you have the Blade Pro Stock? Do you have a regular blade, and could you put it side-by-side with H22?
The reason for this is that H22, from all people who tried it, is reported as stiff. In contrast, the Blade Pro Stocks are reported as very soft ( softer than H19 ).
This is why I have this suspicion. H22 has a very square (box) beam, and you seem to have a roundish beam of the blades ( although it is hard to judge from the photos taken en face). Blades are also known to be head heavy, and this matches with 360sw that goes along with 333g weight.
If you can not see that the frame in the pics is a H22, do not talk.
How a frame with 58RA is stiff?
 

954gator

New User
If you can not see that the frame in the pics is a H22, do not talk.
How a frame with 58RA is stiff?
I think sometimes when flexible frames are more crisp they can sometimes give that feel. I definitely feel the TC97 feeling more crisp than most lower RA sticks which normally feel more muted. I've heard similar things said about the h22, I'm guessing that's what the OPs getting at. In reality neither H22 or TC97 are stiff at all, and I think OP touched on that as well.
 

Tennisist

Semi-Pro
If you can not see that the frame in the pics is a H22, do not talk.
How a frame with 58RA is stiff?
The picture that I see tells me that this is not H22. It is a Blade. Pro Stock Blades that I've seen sold, were all soft. Yours has a 58 RA too.
So, I think we need to clarify that you are comparing a Blade Pro Stock to an Angell, not an H22.
 

Tennisist

Semi-Pro
There may be a bit of exaggeration going on: anyone who hit with a racquet that is RA58 will know that in no way will it be similar to RA67, whether Angell or not. Angell TC97, to me, feels exactly like RA67. In no way does it resemble any RA58 racquet, not even close. Either your Blade feels like an RA67, or the softness of TC97 is very grossly exaggerated here.

I need to caution people that if they want an RA58 racquet, they should not be buying Angell TC97 for sure.
 

H22 fan

Rookie
The picture that I see tells me that this is not H22. It is a Blade. Pro Stock Blades that I've seen sold, were all soft. Yours has a 58 RA too.
So, I think we need to clarify that you are comparing a Blade Pro Stock to an Angell, not an H22.
The pictures posted earlier in this thread show a H22. If you see a Blade, I do not have anything to say...
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
The pictures posted earlier in this thread show a H22. If you see a Blade, I do not have anything to say...
Not sure if he is talking to you or me but no way my frames are Blade Pro Stock. The H22 is more square and the grommets placement is not the same.

I have two first edition MG Radical MP that are also rated at 58ra and the H22 feel stiffer. The stiffness in the machine doesn’t tell the whole story.

The TC97 is rated at 67 before handle and strings. I believe most TC97 measure around 63 on a RDC machine. Not sure exactly why the H22 feels stiffer. As I said my guess lies in the way the tip feels softer in the TC97 vs the more uniform H22.
 

tennistomcat

Semi-Pro
I gotta say it looks like an H22 to me. The main giveaway for me is the bottom-most cross in relation to the main grommet - how close those grommets are. Beam looks squarish & not rounded like a retail blade. The details were really hard for me to notice until I had each in hand & could compare the differences - that really drives it home.

I've only used the TC97 16X19 which I felt had a flexy spot in the upper hoop that I had issues with. I felt that the TC97 was only slightly stiffer than my H22 but it was not by any clear & obvious margin. My TC97 hit a loopier ball of course with more bite. It seemed a little better at net for me because of it's stiffness & allowed me to punch volleys with shorter takebacks.
Other than that, I like my H22 more for the rest of my game - more control & less loopy shot. I still find it odd that something that feels flexy can crush the serve so well.
I can hit whatever shot I want on my 2HBH with the H22 - it's radical-like for me in that regard.
What kills me is trying to find a spare bumper guard for it (and my N-blade too) - it's almost hopeless.

I still have my TC100 which is another stick I'll probably never get rid of. These Angells are classy frames that feel like nothing offered today in my opinion - solid all around. The TC100 is like a blend of a blade & a pure drive that I can switch too easily. Amazing thing about the Angell/Vantage rackets that I've used is they seem to feel so solid on serves - but I digress.
 

pfrischmann

Professional
What did you switch to?
I'm kinda a serial demo guy. I stayed with a prostaff 97 for a while and then moved on to a Babolat Pure Strike 16X19, then an Ultra Tour. If I'm being honest with myself, an Aeropro drive ends up in my hands more often than not. I am currently messing with an APD0, A 2013 GT APD and a Pure Aero.
 

ONgame

Semi-Pro
Here are some pictures of the two frames. The head shape is nearly identical. The H22 is a bit thicker. The string pattern is really really close with the Angell a bit more open in the top, which may contribute to the softer feeling when you hit higher in the stringbed but idk for sure.

Was this TC97's white sides painted white, or are they the frame wrap from Angell?

Terribly sorry for reviving this thread.
 

supineAnimation

Hall of Fame
are you guys getting paid by angell tennis for these posts on here? pretty much any 6.0 / 6.1 by wilson offers much more control, let alone the H22; same goes for the control/pro stock sticks by head, prince volkl and so forth. this overhyping needs to stop imo.



no **** sherlock! those people might just say that because you know... it does! and that is exactly the reason why these sticks perform subpar when it comes to both power and control. and that's also why you will never see an ATP player play one of these mass produced gimmick sticks that are only designed to make rec players feel special because their handle says 'custom' on it and the chinese putting these together in the thousands put a little foam inside the stick. seriously, you people are so gullible.

I bet OP couldn't tell the difference between his 'magic' angell and a walmart stick if he was given a blacked out version of both.

the emperor's new clothes...
This is clearly a very normal and healthy response to the OP.:rolleyes:
 

Adm

Rookie
Honestly, do these 2 racquets look similar???

Ok, they both have a grip, a throat, head, and strings, and even the same air is surrounding both racquets...


But the design is WAY different... And it results to huge difference regarding the feeling...

I have to agree with
letstakeourshirtsoff




Here are some pictures of the two frames. The head shape is nearly identical. The H22 is a bit thicker. The string pattern is really really close with the Angell a bit more open in the top, which may contribute to the softer feeling when you hit higher in the stringbed but idk for sure.

 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
Honestly, do these 2 racquets look similar???

Ok, they both have a grip, a throat, head, and strings, and even the same air is surrounding both racquets...


But the design is WAY different... And it results to huge difference regarding the feeling...

I have to agree with
letstakeourshirtsoff
You can agree with him if you like. I owned both frames at the same time and could hit both back to back at will. letstakeourshirtoff certainly has the right to its own opinion. Though I doubt he ever hit these two back to back, I'm not even sure he hit with a TC97 18M in his life. Don't know why he hates Angell so much. The problem with H22 is that they differ to each other a lot. Stiffness will be all over the place depending on how old they are. The weight and balance are never the same as these frames are always custom made to their owner. So his experience with H22 is sure to be different than mine.

My H22 were 18x20 and the weight SW and balance was adjusted to be as close to my TC97 18m as close as possible. The V shape is not similar, but the thickness and head shape and string spacing is very similar. Look at the distance between the last cross to the bridge on both frame. They play similar, of course, my two frames had similar specs. The H22 felt stiffer even if the RA was lower. H22 had more power, Angell more comfortable.

If someone really wants to play H22s I would understand. But buying frames custom made for another player is not the same as buying one made for you. H22s are super expensive and hard to come by. Angell is just a few clicks away. If letstakeourshirtsoff or anyone feel that these frames are completely different, then good for him. I just happen to have a different conclusion and I did hit them back to back. And with that experience, I would not chase an H22 at all costs. Pro stock are not magic.
 

haqq777

Legend
You can agree with him if you like. I owned both frames at the same time and could hit both back to back at will. letstakeourshirtoff certainly has the right to its own opinion. Though I doubt he ever hit these two back to back, I'm not even sure he hit with a TC97 18M in his life. Don't know why he hates Angell so much. The problem with H22 is that they differ to each other a lot. Stiffness will be all over the place depending on how old they are. The weight and balance are never the same as these frames are always custom made to their owner. So his experience with H22 is sure to be different than mine.

My H22 were 18x20 and the weight SW and balance was adjusted to be as close to my TC97 18m as close as possible. The V shape is not similar, but the thickness and head shape and string spacing is very similar. Look at the distance between the last cross to the bridge on both frame. They play similar, of course, my two frames had similar specs. The H22 felt stiffer even if the RA was lower. H22 had more power, Angell more comfortable.

If someone really wants to play H22s I would understand. But buying frames custom made for another player is not the same as buying one made for you. H22s are super expensive and hard to come by. Angell is just a few clicks away. If letstakeourshirtsoff or anyone feel that these frames are completely different, then good for him. I just happen to have a different conclusion and I did hit them back to back. And with that experience, I would not chase an H22 at all costs. Pro stock are not magic.
Good post. That guy letstakeourshirtsoff was/is a troll and got himself banned from Angell thread for trolling. I don't think he has logged on since April of last year anyway. I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt. With him it was quite obvious that he had an axe to grind with Angell brand.
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
Good post. That guy letstakeourshirtsoff was/is a troll and got himself banned from Angell thread for trolling. I don't think he has logged on since April of last year anyway. I would take whatever he says with a grain of salt. With him it was quite obvious that he had an axe to grind with Angell brand.
I didn't know that, but I can't say I'm surprised.
 

Adm

Rookie
You can agree with him if you like. I owned both frames at the same time and could hit both back to back at will. letstakeourshirtoff certainly has the right to its own opinion. Though I doubt he ever hit these two back to back, I'm not even sure he hit with a TC97 18M in his life. Don't know why he hates Angell so much. The problem with H22 is that they differ to each other a lot. Stiffness will be all over the place depending on how old they are. The weight and balance are never the same as these frames are always custom made to their owner. So his experience with H22 is sure to be different than mine.

My H22 were 18x20 and the weight SW and balance was adjusted to be as close to my TC97 18m as close as possible. The V shape is not similar, but the thickness and head shape and string spacing is very similar. Look at the distance between the last cross to the bridge on both frame. They play similar, of course, my two frames had similar specs. The H22 felt stiffer even if the RA was lower. H22 had more power, Angell more comfortable.

If someone really wants to play H22s I would understand. But buying frames custom made for another player is not the same as buying one made for you. H22s are super expensive and hard to come by. Angell is just a few clicks away. If letstakeourshirtsoff or anyone feel that these frames are completely different, then good for him. I just happen to have a different conclusion and I did hit them back to back. And with that experience, I would not chase an H22 at all costs. Pro stock are not magic.

I have nothing against Angel, and I am not a friend of letstakeourshirtsoff.

I care about facts. The 2 frames of the photos can not feel, and can not play the same, it is not possible (especially in stock form).


I have never said that pro stocks are magic. And I have never said that H22 are amazing or better than Angel or any other brand...
 

AMGF

Hall of Fame
I have nothing against Angel, and I am not a friend of letstakeourshirtsoff.

I care about facts. The 2 frames of the photos can not feel, and can not play the same, it is not possible (especially in stock form).


I have never said that pro stocks are magic. And I have never said that H22 are amazing or better than Angel or any other brand...
I didn’t say you said that.

You care about facts, ok. I hope you don’t think playing « impressions » are facts.

Speaking of facts, have you played these 2 frames? I’d like to hear your factual review on them.

Final thought, I like how you say these two can’t play similar in « stock form ». These two frames are custom made for their owner. They are not such thing as a stock H22, unless you speak of the unmodified hairpin which wouldn’t make any sense as the hairpin is super lightweight and not meant to be played as is. Btw I did state the specs for each frame. Fact.
 
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Faris

Professional
I have nothing against Angel, and I am not a friend of letstakeourshirtsoff.

I care about facts. The 2 frames of the photos can not feel, and can not play the same, it is not possible (especially in stock form).


I have never said that pro stocks are magic. And I have never said that H22 are amazing or better than Angel or any other brand...
Pro stocks actually ARE customized to spec. They aren't played in "stock form". And you can customize the pro stock to match any frame spec, the hairpin is so light. In this case @AMGF brought it close to his TC97 18x20 specs. Play both first like OP back to back and then give thoughts like he did. I have played with both 335g strung and my feedback is very similar to his. H22 has a little bit more power but I was surprised to see the similarity in how they played. I own both btw, my H22 is older Burn PJ but I've seen them in a few others as well.
 

Adm

Rookie
I didn’t say you said that.

You care about facts, ok. I hope you don’t think playing « impressions » are facts.

Speaking of facts, have you played these 2 frames? I’d like to hear your factual review on them.

Final thought, I like how you say these two can’t play similar in « stock form ». These two frames are custom made for their owner. They are not such thing as a stock H22, unless you speak of the unmodified hairpin which wouldn’t make any sense as the hairpin is super lightweight and not meant to be played as is. Btw I did state the specs for each frame. Fact.


I have done only 1 review online, and this is for the Wilson Clash, as a tribute to their engineers. I do not intend to do another.

Addittionally, it is not possible to compare your 2 racquets because the customization method involved can totally change their nature (and not just in terms of specs - but mainly in terms of feeling - even if they have the same specs). Respectively, the several H22s I had to use were most times different between them, and they were ALWAYS different from the TC97 I tested.

Without wishing to enter in details by saying their "stock form" I mean the "prototype's architecture", and it is a different story how the final product ends up to be a pro stock or whatever. THE QUICK EXAMPLE in your photos is the shoulder and bridge of the racquet... there are more. These two racquets were not meant by the racquet engineers to play identical.


I have a quick question for you or anyone else interested. How many H22s can you show me with different shoulder and bridge in comparison to the one of your photo?
 
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jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Pro stocks actually ARE customized to spec. They aren't played in "stock form". And you can customize the pro stock to match any frame spec, the hairpin is so light. In this case @AMGF brought it close to his TC97 18x20 specs. Play both first like OP back to back and then give thoughts like he did. I have played with both 335g strung and my feedback is very similar to his. H22 has a little bit more power but I was surprised to see the similarity in how they played. I own both btw, my H22 is older Burn PJ but I've seen them in a few others as well.
Hi Guys, Still considering a TC97 as it is one of very few players' racquets available in 28" length; how's the power transmission on serve compared with your H22s? (Assuming that the extra flex in the head of the Angells reduces the effeciency of power transfer somewhat?) Cheers, JMac.
 

Faris

Professional
Hi Guys, Still considering a TC97 as it is one of very few players' racquets available in 28" length; how's the power transmission on serve compared with your H22s? (Assuming that the extra flex in the head of the Angells reduces the effeciency of power transfer somewhat?) Cheers, JMac.
Hey Jmac, TC97 is a great choice for a control players stick . I haven't played 28" but I have with 27.5" and it feels and plays great. My H22 is also 27.5". I find a little more power on H22 but in my case it is by a very small margin and once you get dialed in, you don't feel it. In my experience (have tried every one except for 105 sq in) the Angells are great serving sticks regardless of the D beam TC95/100 or the more boxier TC97. I'm inclined to think it has got to do something with the layup and less with flex but I'm just guessing. Do you play with 28"? What are you currently playing with?
 
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