Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
They're great frames, but Volkl is all over the place on specs. Good thing they're platforms. All of my son's, a friend's, and my Evos were under 305, some closer to 300. Your specs are preferable.
Wilson Pro Labs: Ultra Pro (16x19) Official Thread
- Thread starter zettavaska
- Start date
NastyWinners
Hall of Fame
not as aerodynamic IMO. went from a DR98 to a UP 16M and that was my issue at least.
I recently hit with my blade 98 16m and ultra pro 16m. Can someone explain to me why I got way more spin/action on my ultra pro? What is the differentiation that makes this possible?
I main the blade and always found it to have a low trajectory and the spin was questionable yet predictable. But I am used to it now. The ultra pro had the heavy spin, similar blade whippiness, and I was able to really shape the shot the way I wanted.
I main the blade and always found it to have a low trajectory and the spin was questionable yet predictable. But I am used to it now. The ultra pro had the heavy spin, similar blade whippiness, and I was able to really shape the shot the way I wanted.
I have some Blades as well as a UP 16x19 and all I can figure is that you are perceiving a similar amount of spin, but with the lower power of the UP it seems to produce a ball that spins down into the court more easily than the Blade when in reality it's just a power level difference not a spin level difference. UP hits a less penetrating ball IMO.
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I get more spin from the UP16 also, partly bc it’s more open I think. My UP and blade are both around 327 sw but of course the blade is more powerful.
Just held my UP16 up to a couple different Blade 16s and the spacing of the mains and crosses from the center all the way out is identical to my eye. Have them all weighted, balanced, and swingweighted virtually the same. The spin to horizontal ball velocity ratio is higher with the UP giving the impression of more spin, all other things being equal.
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The UP has three mains in the throat while the Blade has four, so I'd argue it can't be that identical.
Regardless, the UP is still a fairly tight 16x19.
UP has a narrower throat at the bottom of the hoop, so less room for grommets in the lower hoop. This has zero impact on the string spacing. I'm physically in possession of both frames.
ivanjo
Rookie
I think the UP is more dense 1619 than the blade (correct me if I'm wrong) but because of the lower SW and whippier head speed, the ball got more brushed and spin from fast racket head speed. That's just my assumption.
I used to like Yonex racket (started with EZ100) and yesterday I tried EZ98 and VC98 on the same session, despite they give more spin (VC98) and more power, the UP16 is still much easier and more fun to play with.
I used to like Yonex racket (started with EZ100) and yesterday I tried EZ98 and VC98 on the same session, despite they give more spin (VC98) and more power, the UP16 is still much easier and more fun to play with.
I don't see a bit of difference in string spacing between 16x19 UP and Blade - mains or crosses.
Millimeters or even micrometers would not be perceptible to the eye, but they make a difference. The smallest variable has an impact.
Also go count the number of strings across the throat bridge area, it's not the same. If you post a pic of them side by side, I'll mark it up and repost for you.
The UP has one less string, and is spaced differently, in that area and what that means is the Blade has a tighter pattern.
Sorry no. Put calipers on the grommets and you'll see they're all the same. Makes no difference if there are three vs. four grommets in the bottom of the hoop inside the throat. The only difference in the 3 vs. 4 is that with 3 like the UP has, the center two main strings hug the inside of the grommets making those two strings a little more closely spaced than the Blade where the center two strings hug the outside of the grommets. Now repeat this pattern all the way out. The UP/Blade simply alternate which "bay" of mains has a slightly wider vs. narrower spacing, but at the end of the day, the actual spacing of all the grommets is the same. Get some calipers and see for yourself if you like.
The UP is not more open and does not produce more spin than the Blade. In fact the UP should theoretically produce less spin since it's a smaller head, and the length of the main strings is slightly shorter which would produce less string movement and less spin in theory. But there's no realistic difference in spin. The UP just has a little less power than the Blade giving the false impression that you're able to spin the ball more to keep it in play.
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Sorry no, string spacing can't be identical when, as you said, the headsize is smaller. (I should've started with this)
Also if string spacing were the same, you could put Blade grommets on a UP, please go try this for me and report back.
Even 1 sq-in means they cannot be aligned exactly identically because the area is not the same nor is the shape for that matter.
But thanks for playing, we have a nice consolation prize for you on your way out.
As an aside, I was never arguing spin production, just possible causes. Spin is all technique.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Hard to argue with a man who whips out his calipers to measure grommet spacing and observes which side of the grommets strings are sitting on. But I do tend to agree that both are likely spinning, all things equal, close to the same with the power level of the Blade landing the ball farther in the court (or over the baseline). But all things aren't usually equal, and the psychology of the player likely plays a huge role in this, considering the UP could conceivably be swung harder/faster/more confidently, creating more spin and more bite. A bot may get the same results (spin and depth), but I doubt a human would.
Only on TT...
Only on TT...
LOL get some calipers and see for yourself. You clearly haven't. You're just talking jibberish...like a 97 head size automatically means strings can't be spaced the same as a 98. Silly.
I have yet to see you lie one racquet atop the other so we can compare
O right that would disprove your entire theory
Also by common sense 3 does not equal 4
Hey look - $1.79 calipers.
Nah, taking a pic of one racquet on top of the other would cause parallax discrepancies and you'd keep going on and on anyway. No thanks, wouldn't mean anything.
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...eter/calipers/6-in-utility-caliper-63664.html
You can afford calipers but are too poor to pay attention to facts? Makes sense, although not common sense in this case.Hey look - $1.79 calipers.
Nah, taking a pic of one racquet on top of the other would cause parallax discrepancies and you'd keep going on and on anyway. No thanks, wouldn't mean anything.
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...eter/calipers/6-in-utility-caliper-63664.html
Are you sure it's not silver? They're right on top of each other on the periodic table so they must be exactly the same...like the Blade and UP string patterns.This tangent is gold.
Maybe search the thread before running your mouth lest you look more foolishI'll be happy to sell you one of each since you don't actually own them.
If you actually owned both you could take measurements yourself and stop the clown show.
I own the UP, and never claimed to have owned both.
But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that 3 does not equal 4 or that 4 occupying the same space as 3 would be closer together.
Apparently it takes a clown though, can I make you a balloon animal on your way out?
It's a true modern mystery how the Blade fits 8 grommet holes inside the throat when the UP has 6....all spaced the same. Calling all TTW detectives on this one.
I recommend you see an eye doctor.
Pretty clearly the strings are not aligning.
We can put it to a vote if you want..
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
I call a draw. Same time tomorrow?
So, the EVO frames were delivered today. After taking all the crap off, just the unstrung racket frames, here’s what I ended up with.
Racquet 1: 306.4 gm, 31.75 cm balance point
Racquet 2: 305.9 gm, 31.75 cm balance point
Pretty frickin’ close. I will string them up tomorrow and get specs with the original grips.
After that I’ll likely switch out for leather and get a final set of playing specs. Looking forward to this experiment.
Happiest surprise: the butt flare on these is legit!!!
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Nice. So you're probably looking at around 321-324 strung and 5hl. Your balance is also at a good starting point, which is a little more thumpy stock than mine. Now that I've dialed mine in closer to final specs, the frame is really performing well. Thin beam, rich feel, and a bit more pop than the UPs. I'm close to selling everything else off and picking up several more--was an idiot to let my other go. Keep me updated, either here or in the Volkl thread.
And just to keep this thread on topic... The C-10 Evo clearly has a tighter pattern than the Blade 16x19 or UP 16x19. It's not even debatable; no calipers needed.
Just to keep the thread on topic...let's talk about a completely different racquet
This is a joke by the way, don't want to hurt anyone's feelings
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
"Just to keep this thread on topic..." (topic being "the tangent") was also a joke. No feelings hurt.Just to keep the thread on topic...let's talk about a completely different racquet
This is a joke by the way, don't want to hurt anyone's feelings
This is my bad. I’ve been a diehard supporter of the UP16. Only reason I’m posting here is because I’ll be comparing the two racquets.Just to keep the thread on topic...let's talk about a completely different racquet
This is a joke by the way, don't want to hurt anyone's feelings
No apologies needed, I have switched from the UP. I check in occasionally to provide my professionally amateur and unwanted opinion about the racquet as I used it for quite awhile and with a dozen or more different strings.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
My Evo is modified to 335g, 9hl, unknown SW with an over grip.
My modified v4 UP 18x20s are 341g, 10hl, unknown SW with no over grip.
The Evo hits a better ball for me at lighter specs. A leather grip will probably get you about where I am, but I've had to add 8g of lead around/above the butt cap and 7g in the hoop.
jklos
Professional
I have two Ultra Pro's I bought in December. I put 4 grams total at 3 & 9 and 2 grams along the bevels under the grip. Total strung specs with lead and overgrip are 332g for both racquets, 320/321 SW, and 32.2/32.3cm (6pts HL). I could put some lead at 12 to get the SW up a bit but so far they seem stable enough. No issues with power either but I like low power racquets. I had to tighten up my strings as I was playing technifibre Black Code at 46lbs but found it too powerful. Moved up to 50lbs.
Illuminatu
New User
It plays incredible well now, with such plow and stability. Serving were great and slices felt fantastic. I think I just found my spec.
Weight: 342g
Balance: 32.2cm
SW: 340
6 grams (six 10cm strips) at 3&9 and 4 grams (two 20cm strips) at 12.
The sensation of swinging the racket felt so natural, both sides. Timing was on point.
Tested the racket during a match which I think is the best match I played so far.
Need some adjustments on tension, at least go up 1-2kg. It’s strung with gut in the mains 24kg, Alu power in the crosses 23kg at the moment.
Weight: 342g
Balance: 32.2cm
SW: 340
6 grams (six 10cm strips) at 3&9 and 4 grams (two 20cm strips) at 12.
The sensation of swinging the racket felt so natural, both sides. Timing was on point.
Tested the racket during a match which I think is the best match I played so far.
Need some adjustments on tension, at least go up 1-2kg. It’s strung with gut in the mains 24kg, Alu power in the crosses 23kg at the moment.
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Been playing around with lead on this frame and it seems i find the following setup the most ideal for my game.
Love how the consisteny of the string bed gives me more confidence to be aggressive and hit balls on the rise.
4 x 5" strips from the 4th cross down
4x 2" strips from the 5th cross down (on top of the previous layer)
Final - 330g, 320-321SW, 7pt HL (32cms) with a leather grip
(I went with a 3/8th instead of a 1/4th)
Strung with Tourna silver 7 tour at 50/48. (This is one the best Poly's out there)
advantages
- increases twistweight - racquet feels more stable on the heavy balls
- increases swingweight - power without decreasing racquet head acceleration. Perfect blend of spin and depth.
- No loss in control
- Enough on mishits or if i am late to not loose the advantage in points.
Love how the consisteny of the string bed gives me more confidence to be aggressive and hit balls on the rise.
4 x 5" strips from the 4th cross down
4x 2" strips from the 5th cross down (on top of the previous layer)
Final - 330g, 320-321SW, 7pt HL (32cms) with a leather grip
(I went with a 3/8th instead of a 1/4th)
Strung with Tourna silver 7 tour at 50/48. (This is one the best Poly's out there)
advantages
- increases twistweight - racquet feels more stable on the heavy balls
- increases swingweight - power without decreasing racquet head acceleration. Perfect blend of spin and depth.
- No loss in control
- Enough on mishits or if i am late to not loose the advantage in points.
After leather grips:
Racquet 1: 332 gm, 8HL
Racquet 2: 335 gm, 8HL
Now the showdown begins. These are about 10 gm lighter and 3 less HL than the UP. SW is also a little less, maybe closer to 320 than the 330 the UP are at. Game on!!!!
Well, I switched. UP16 is an awesome racquet and I’ve loved them. Have a matched pair with extra grommets (I was planning on these for the long haul), but the Volkl Evo won out. For me, it’s just a better serving/volley racquet. Since I play mostly dubs, it made sense to switch.
Original showdown was between the C10pro and the UP16, but the C10pro was just too burly for me. The Evo has all the upside of the other without the downside.
Time to get backup grommets for the Evo.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
I've sold almost every other frame I owned, including my UP 18x20s, and have settled into my Evos. Once you get the mods and string/tension right on these, they're gems. They play nimbly in that 330-335g range with good stability and a plush feel.
And they take C-10 Pro grommets, which you can find anywhere. See you in the Volkl thread
RNBABOLAT
Professional
I think both Ultra pros will have an even lower launch.... maybe you could try some other strings to fix that issue
Thanks for the tip... what strings would you recommend?
RNBABOLAT
Professional
For a powerful frame like the strike I think is better to ask on the thread about the racquet since is really popular and mostly at this point a lot of string are discussed on that thead. Since I don't think the lauch is low (I think is really high for a control oriented racquet) you can consider a lower tension and work on your mechanics since I don't think the answer is the Ultra Pro by any means
ivanjo
Rookie
Yeah I agree with the low launch angle on the Ultra Pro v4 16m. But it has been my main racket since I bought it. It has a low power so I relearn my forehand to swing faster with a full swing.
In the end, I love my UP16m the most, not the easiest to use but my forehand has a good amount of spin on a low launch angle path.
I tried to come back to my Artengo TR960, my forehand produce so many moonball so I put it back and take the UP again.
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