Wilson tennis is stuck in the past.. Adjust or keep losing market share!

danbrenner

danbrenner

Legend
Wilson.. who is in charge of your tennis racquet dept. They should be immediately fired. You are consistently losing market share these days. Opelka, Paul, Keys.. to name a few. And its so obvious what you are lacking. You need a new silo. that features a 98" head. and undulating beam. apprx 23mm at the hoop. not a straight beam like the blade. apprx 63-66 ra to keep the stiffness to a point where the racquet still has pop. And try to find a name that isnt super cheesy. Is that so difficult. If it is .. then your tennis dept is going to keep going downhill. The pro staffs are your heritage.. yes.. but they are quickly becoming relics. The blades are nice, but they lack power. You need a new silo. . lets think of some possible names. bullet,,. . spear.. cannon.. blaze.. force..
The other sticks that are destroying you.. are many actually. yonex ezone and vcore.. Babolat PA.. Tec Tfight. .. Head. Boom.. Rad.. Gravity.. even Dunlop has their FX line.
Anyway. get to work. all the other manufacturers are eating your lunch. you really should be ashamed of yourselves. Dan Brenner.

So thats my message to Wilson. my TT brothers. feel free to chime in .
 
SpinToWin said:
Hm tbf the RF line fills most of those requirements it’s just…. almost nobody liked it haha
Click to expand...
It’s a dud. And I should’ve added that in creating this new silo. You also have to have a 100 in.² frame as well that is respected. Not just a 98 inch. But yeah, the RF silo is designed around Rogers game, which is really technically not quite the modern power/spin game that This this thread was talking about
 
I dont remember who mentioned it, but just add some of that shift DNA to the RF01 and it should be good to go.
 
IMO Wilson has been more creative than the other brands with the Shift, Clash, and RF01 and sometimes when you swing big, you miss. The Clash has been pretty successful for them and the Shift has done decent enough for a new silo (I quite like it but it does give me a bit of arm pain). The RF01 hasn't worked out but I suppose they can just go back to the drawing board if they decide to do a V2. The racquet industry is cyclical as right now Yonex has a lot of momentum and hype so it's going to be hard to overcome the hype even if say the next Ultra is very good. They just have to stick to what they are good at with the Blade and Clash and maybe the upcoming Shift will be more user friendly as there's still some untapped potential there.
 
Ultra needs to improve, gain momentum and more market share. AFAIK the Pure Drive and EZone are kings of power right now, and power racquets sell.
 
Seems to me Wilson is doing just fine...

Top-Selling Racquets at Specialty Stores
By year-to-date dollars, Jan.-Sept. 2024

Best Sellers
1. Babolat Pure Aero 100 2023 (MP)
2. Wilson Blade 98 16x19 V9 2024 (MP)
3. Babolat Pure Drive 2021 (MP)
4. Yonex Ezone 100 Aqua N Blk (MP)
5. Wilson Clash 100 V2 2022 (MP)

“Hot New Racquets”
(introduced in the past 12 months)
1. Wilson Blade 98 16x19 V9 2024 (MP)
2. Yonex Ezone 100 Aqua N Blk (MP)
3. Head Speed MP 2024
4. Yonex Ezone 98 Aqua N Blk (MP)
5. Wilson Blade 100 V9 2024 (MP)

Source: Racquet Industry Research Group
 
danbrenner said:
Wilson.. who is in charge of your tennis racquet dept. They should be immediately fired. You are consistently losing market share these days. Opelka, Paul, Keys.. to name a few. And its so obvious what you are lacking. You need a new silo. that features a 98" head. and undulating beam. apprx 23mm at the hoop. not a straight beam like the blade. apprx 63-66 ra to keep the stiffness to a point where the racquet still has pop. And try to find a name that isnt super cheesy. Is that so difficult. If it is .. then your tennis dept is going to keep going downhill. The pro staffs are your heritage.. yes.. but they are quickly becoming relics. The blades are nice, but they lack power. You need a new silo. . lets think of some possible names. bullet,,. . spear.. cannon.. blaze.. force..
The other sticks that are destroying you.. are many actually. yonex ezone and vcore.. Babolat PA.. Tec Tfight. .. Head. Boom.. Rad.. Gravity.. even Dunlop has their FX line.
Anyway. get to work. all the other manufacturers are eating your lunch. you really should be ashamed of yourselves. Dan Brenner.

So thats my message to Wilson. my TT brothers. feel free to chime in .
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the proof that they are losing market share?

I think we'd mostly believe that, but without evidence, we shouldn't.

And anecdotal evidence of what you see at your club or public courts doesn't count.
 
Is this a wind-up? Cause I am begging you to spend less time online and more time on the court. Lol. Wilson is doing just fine. The Clash and Ultra lines are incredibly popular with recreation players. The Blade line has become almost synonymous with "control frame" for a good portion of the market; the 100 sq inch model and the 98 16x19 are probably two of the top-selling racquets overall right now. I may also think the Pro Staff is a relic of the past, but it remains one of the best-selling racquet lines out there.

Please don't confuse the racquets the pros choose to use with where the average tennis consumer is.
 
This level of overreaction seems appropriate if Wilson were to lose say, Federer and Williams to other brands, but yeah not Tsitsipas and Keys lol.
 
McGradey said:
This level of overreaction seems appropriate if Wilson were to lose say, Federer and Williams to other brands, but yeah not Tsitsipas and Keys lol.
Click to expand...

It's not just about losing them, it's about losing them and then seeing them immediately have a huge run of form

Keys had a Goran moment with Yonex, Stef seems completely recharged with his PA98
 
McGradey said:
This level of overreaction seems appropriate if Wilson were to lose say, Federer and Williams to other brands, but yeah not Tsitsipas and Keys lol.
Click to expand...
Also tsitsi could have tried a number of Wilson molds that could get him whatever it is that he wants.

But tsitsipas nonsense, he wanted to play with raz setup and nothing would convince him to do anything else, I bet.
 
Rosstour said:
It's not just about losing them, it's about losing them and then seeing them immediately have a huge run of form

Keys had a Goran moment with Yonex, Stef seems completely recharged with his PA98
Click to expand...
Yes, they're compelling narratives at a time when not much else of interest has been happening, other than top players being banned. So how will the perception change once Keys and Tsitsi start losing some matches again? Will people really care about their racquets then? Do people care about Tommy Paul's racquet now that he's been using Yonex for a couple of years?
 
McGradey said:
Yes, they're compelling narratives at a time when not much else of interest has been happening, other than top players being banned. So how will the perception change once Keys and Tsitsi start losing some matches again? Will people really care about their racquets then? Do people care about Tommy Paul's racquet now that he's been using Yonex for a couple of years?
Click to expand...

If Tommy Paul switched racquets and immediately won a Slam, yeah we would care

And "not much going on, other than the top players being banned"--that's a hell of a lot to be going on, lol

There's stories all over the place unless you just want Djokonews and Sinnernews

Resurgent Shapo, resurgent Berrettini, resurgent TPas, giant-killing Giron, the changing of the guard re Zverev, Medvedev, Rublev....it's actually a super exciting time bc it's not as predictable as it has been for a decade-plus
 
Rosstour said:
If Tommy Paul switched racquets and immediately won a Slam, yeah we would care
Click to expand...
But he didn't. Keys did, but she'd also been a slam finalist before, so it was good to see her get one because she's been there or thereabouts for years.
Tsitsipas might get one but I wouldn't bet on it with Sinner and Alcaraz lurking, guys he is yet to tackle with his new Excalibur. He hasn't had to face a nemesis with it yet. If he starts dominating the whole tour with his Babolat then yes that is juicy.

Resurgent Shapo, resurgent Berrettini, resurgent TPas, giant-killing Giron, the changing of the guard re Zverev, Medvedev, Rublev....it's actually a super exciting time bc it's not as predictable as it has been for a decade-plus
Click to expand...
This stuff is not exactly headline material for your average tennis fan/racquet buyer who mostly follows the top players only, but I feel like this is a tangent to this thread so let's park this part of the convo.
 
McGradey said:
But he didn't. Keys did, but she'd also been a slam finalist before, so it was good to see her get one because she's been there or thereabouts for years.
Tsitsipas might get one but I wouldn't bet on it with Sinner and Alcaraz lurking, guys he is yet to tackle with his new Excalibur. He hasn't had to face a nemesis with it yet. If he starts dominating the whole tour with his Babolat then yes that is juicy.


This stuff is not exactly headline material for your average tennis fan/racquet buyer who mostly follows the top players only, but I feel like this is a tangent to this thread so let's park this part of the convo.
Click to expand...

And those casual fans we think so lowly of---a lot of them like Tsitsipas. He is v popular with younger players and fans.

I think it's actually us who are more focused on the top players. The kids have their favorites and they follow them, we just crap on anyone who isn't a Slam winner no matter how nice their game is
 
Rosstour said:
And those casual fans we think so lowly of---a lot of them like Tsitsipas. He is v popular with younger players and fans.
Click to expand...
Definitely. He's a top 5/top 3 level player at his best and seems to be on the road back there. Maybe he'll break new ground? But I'm just saying it's hard to parse the impact of a racquet change on a performance increase, particularly in the case of a guy like Tsitsipas who seems to lead quite a cluttered existence mentally between his off-court existentialism and strange family dynamic, the latter of which also seems to be shifting.
 
McGradey said:
Definitely. He's a top 5/top 3 level player at his best and seems to be on the road back there. Maybe he'll break new ground? But I'm just saying it's hard to parse the impact of a racquet change on a performance increase, particularly in the case of a guy like Tsitsipas who seems to lead quite a cluttered existence mentally between his off-court existentialism and strange family dynamic, the latter of which also seems to be shifting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but again, we are discussing the impact on the casual fans, not us. For them it really can be that simple.
 
Just because some pros have moved away from their Wilson frame doesn't mean squat.
Wilson is very healthy. Don't forget, they sell tons of recreational rackets at department stores like Dick's in the US.
My club, a huge country club with golf and tennis, 20 courts, is an exclusively Wilson shop. 80% of the members play Wilson.

What pros play doesn't move the needle much. I was in the golf business. At the peak of Tiger's and Rory's games, they both played Nike golf clubs and Nike left the club business because it wasn't profitable. Hardly any rec golfers bought Nike sticks.
 
danbrenner said:
Wilson.. who is in charge of your tennis racquet dept. They should be immediately fired. You are consistently losing market share these days. Opelka, Paul, Keys.. to name a few. And its so obvious what you are lacking. You need a new silo. that features a 98" head. and undulating beam. apprx 23mm at the hoop. not a straight beam like the blade. apprx 63-66 ra to keep the stiffness to a point where the racquet still has pop. And try to find a name that isnt super cheesy. Is that so difficult. If it is .. then your tennis dept is going to keep going downhill. The pro staffs are your heritage.. yes.. but they are quickly becoming relics. The blades are nice, but they lack power. You need a new silo. . lets think of some possible names. bullet,,. . spear.. cannon.. blaze.. force..
The other sticks that are destroying you.. are many actually. yonex ezone and vcore.. Babolat PA.. Tec Tfight. .. Head. Boom.. Rad.. Gravity.. even Dunlop has their FX line.
Anyway. get to work. all the other manufacturers are eating your lunch. you really should be ashamed of yourselves. Dan Brenner.

So thats my message to Wilson. my TT brothers. feel free to chime in .
Click to expand...
Are you related to Joseph P. Brenner?
 
Rosstour said:
Yeah, but again, we are discussing the impact on the casual fans, not us. For them it really can be that simple.
Click to expand...
That's true. Silver lining for us could be that if the Stefaissance continues, it may lead to Wilson making the Ultra into a legit Babolat killing line with cool factor. Or the Shift, but I see less potential there. Depends how much they actually feel the pinch from all this.
 
Last edited:
McGradey said:
That's true. Silver lining for us could be if that the Stefaissance continues, it may lead to Wilson making the Ultra into a legit Babolat killing line with cool factor. Or the Shift, but I see less potential there. Depends how much they actually feel the pinch from all this.
Click to expand...

My guess is they're working on his severance now. I'm thinking there is disagreement within the company about how important this is, with the higher ups ruling that Stef can go kick rocks while the Pro Labs and marketing guys are tearing their hair out
 
So really what they need to do here is scrap the ultra silo., rename and retool it. And create a quality 100 in.² frame and 98 in.² frame. The 100 in.² to be the typical 26 mm thick beam frame, and the 98 an undulating 23 or max 24 mm beam frame. Easier said than done, but easier done when I said. This is what they need to do. Then spend some good money on getting some top pros to use both the 100 and the 98. Absolutely have to fill this guy in the market. They need a quality 98 in.² frame that fits the modern power game.
And on the subject of getting rid of Silos, you could scrap the shift at the same time as getting rid of the ultra The ultra simply too old of a silo to reboot. Just get rid of it.
 
danbrenner said:
And try to find a name that isnt super cheesy. Is that so difficult.
Click to expand...

This is an exceptional point when it comes to Wilson tennis strategy. Nearly every layup/tech update, they introduce a new gimmicky silo whilst phasing out a prior one. It's pathetic. None of these stupid gimmicks frames stay around and they continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Tennis players want traditional/nostalgic naming convention and modern performance. Aero has been out 20+ years. Pure Drive 30+. Radical 30+. Prestige 40+....

A few examples of terrible gimmick silo/cheesy naming conventions:
  • Juice
  • Kobra
  • Steam
  • Burn (somehow still getting updates)
  • Zen
  • Fury
  • Surge
  • Trance
  • Torch
  • Ultra (I know its a legacy name, just a pathetic silo)
  • Shift (nice sticks, lame name)
  • ROK

Doesnt take a marketing genius to realize you should keep the silos the same naming convention and evolve the molds within

I wonder how many of us would be using a shift it was labeled as a Blade 99 SPIN or a Clash if it was labeled as a Pro Staff Modern...

SMFH good point here Dan
 
Last edited:
Ultra is still a good name imo and the perception could be reinvigorated if the line had some proper attention paid to it. If the best they can conjure up now is Shift or RF01 Pro ... those are a lot worse as names.
All those other ones in @gino list suck — I mean Juice, for a tennis racquet. Just terrible.
 
Just because some pros have moved away from their Wilson frame doesn't mean squat.
Wilson is very healthy. Don't forget, they sell tons of recreational rackets at department stores like Dick's in the US.
My club, a huge country club with golf and tennis, 20 courts, is an exclusively Wilson shop. 80% of the members play Wilson.

What pros play doesn't move the needle much. I was in the golf business. At the peak of Tiger's and Rory's games, they both played Nike golf clubs and Nike left the club business because it wasn't profitable. Hardly any rec golfers bought ike sticks.
 
gino said:
This is an exceptional point when it comes to Wilson tennis strategy. Nearly every layup/tech update, they introduce a new gimmicky silo whilst phasing out a prior one. It's pathetic. None of these stupid gimmicks stick and they continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Tennis players want tradition. Aero has been out 20+ years. Pure Drive 30+. Radical 30+. Prestige 40+....

A few examples of terrible gimmick silo/cheesy naming conventions:
  • Kobra
  • Steam
  • Juice
  • Burn
  • Zen
  • Fury
  • Surge
  • Trance
  • Torch
  • Ultra (I know its a legacy name, just a pathetic silo)
  • Shift (nice sticks, lame name)
  • ROK

Doesnt take a marketing genius to realize you should keep the silos the same naming convention and evolve the molds within. I wonder how many of us would be using a shift it was labeled as a Blade 99 SPIN or a Clash if it was labeled as a Pro Staff Modern... SMFH good point here Dan
Click to expand...
I like Fury and Surge!

I don't know if because of all the information we are exposed to via social media, the recent racquet changes that a lot of pros made, but it seems this is the biggest hype racquets have gotten contributing to pros success maybe since Fed went to the 97 inch frame. Otherwise, it is usually a side bar topic in the general media left to us tennis nerds to debate and wonder what the real truth is. Might also be a little bit of selection bias if Keys and Tsitsi didn't have some immediate success with the changes. We aren't hearing about the Blade Hurkacz switched to.

Also, I think we are associating market share too much with what ever the pro is holding in his/her hands even if it is a paint job. Blades used to be all over the place on both tours, but with the recent boom in Yonex, you see less but it is still there. Does this reflect the rec market? Not a lot, since the biggest part of the rec market isn't player racquets but tweeners or lower hence Wilson's decision to focus on Shift and Clash. I don't think any pros are sporting those for Wilson. But they sell a ton. RF seems like a money grab and also pigeon holes the opportunity for marketing outside of Roger. What pro wants to play with an RF01 in regards to image? Another Babyfed?
 
McGradey said:
Ultra is still a good name imo and the perception could be reinvigorated if the line had some proper attention paid to it. If the best they can conjure up now is Shift or RF01 Pro ... those are a lot worse as names.
All those other ones in @gino list suck — I mean Juice, for a tennis racquet. Just terrible.
Click to expand...

Its like they want to shoot themselves in the foot. Babolat gets it, they introduced an epic new mold INSIDE the aero family. No need for constant/gimmick naming conventions

They should send the blade pro to the Ultra silo. Call it Ultra 98 and call Ultra Pro Ultra 97. Simple. I agree, ultra sounds decent, just needs better molds within it
 
gino said:
Its like they want to shoot themselves in the foot. Babolat gets it, they introduced an epic new mold INSIDE the aero family. No need for constant/gimmick naming conventions

They should send the blade pro to the Ultra silo. Call it Ultra 98 and call Ultra Pro Ultra 97. Simple. I agree, ultra sounds decent, just needs better molds within it
Click to expand...

Ultra Pro would logically seem to align more to being a Blade 97 rather than being lumped in with the Pure Drive competitor. It's a bit of a mess they got themselves into with the names when you look at the various silos and racquets within them haha.
 
What I would do if I was in charge of Wilson tennis:

1. Kill the RF01- Cool novelty, ended up being a sales flop
2. Kill the Shift- Again, cool novelty, some liked it, overall was a flop.
3. Kill the Ultra- Sales flop, overall the sticks have always been pretty terrible IMO.
4. Replace the Ultra with a direct competitor to the Ezone and PD. 100 incher with a thick undulating beam and wide string spacing, 20mm throat, goes up to 26mm in the hoop. 67ish RA. 98 incher with thin, 19.5mm aerodynamic throat, then moves up to 24.5mm in the hoop (sound familiar?). 65 RA. Tight string spacing and possible an 18x19 "Tour" option with a higher SW. Otherwise SW in the 315-320 range for both other models. Keep a raw, connected feel with some dampening tech for the 98, mute out most of the 100's stiffness but keep some feel in the stringbed. The 98 could even be the V10 Blade, so long as a "Blade Tour" could still be had with a constant beam 21.5mm. Other alternative is for this to be a Pro Staff 98. The 100 could be a one-off silo.
5. Replace the Shift with a direct competitor to the PA. Again, thin aero throat, thick undulating beam going up to 26mm, open 16x20 string pattern in the 98, 16x18 in the 100, powerful, super spin friendly, 66 RA for both. Sub 310SW for the 100, Sub 320SW for the 98. These could mark the revival of the Steam nameplate. Make both of these rackets more muted to cancel out the high stiffness, but keep a well-defined sweetspot, especially for 98.
6. Paint it all in a super distinctive colorway that is still somehow cohesive (with exception of the Pro Staff which is to be blacked out). Think of what they did with the Blade V7, Clash V1, and Burn V2.
7. DO NOT TOUCH THE CLASH!
8. Create a Gen 3/4 poly to rival Solinco and the microbrands in terms of spin, durability, power, and feel. Create one 5 sided string, and another super slick 8 sided string. Make it in a bright color and have it complement the new 98s.
9. Move Ultra Tour to PS or Blade silo (whatever wasn't done in step 4)
10. Profit $$$...

Oh yeah, forgot to mention- FIX THE DANG QC!!! I don't want my 310SW Pure Drive coming in at a swingweight that would satisfy Sampras.



Wilson, you're welcome.
 
mmazzinin1 said:
What about Roddick and Intuitive tennis choosing a Shift as their new main racquet?
Click to expand...
Both are irrelevant to the everyday consumer, and Roddick is being paid to do so. The Shift is a very divisive racket, and there aren't serious tournament players that are using it. So far we have a Youtuber and a retired pro that are "switching"... Some people may like the racket, but I think most tennis players aren't interested.
 
Pusher crusher said:
Exactly they have the racquets/mold to tinker with or just re release Steam 100 and Steam 99 release them both one 16 x 19 and one 16 x20 great racquets that can keep up with the modern game problem solved.
Click to expand...
Great idea. They could rerelease the Blade V5 while they are at it. Low-effort way to get a whole bunch of people back to Wilson
 
JK208 said:
Great idea. They could rerelease the Blade V5 while they are at it. Low-effort way to get a whole bunch of people back to Wilson
Click to expand...
Been saying this for a while now. Just repaint it and come up with some BS like phytoplankton or nanokevlar to trick people into thinking it's 'new tech'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

jimdontcare
(Over)Simplifying the string market
Replies
28
Views
2K
MisterP
MisterP
Crocodile
Racquet design and tech - which company is likely to leap ahead of the others ?
2
Replies
90
Views
4K
Peyote Bjornsson
Peyote Bjornsson
Crocodile
Online presence in retail is not enough to promote the sales of new or resurgent tennis brands.
Replies
9
Views
1K
tennistiger
T
Crocodile
The pace of technological change
Replies
48
Views
1K
heavyD
heavyD
D
Ezone 105 or Head gravity S or Wilson Blade V8 104?
Replies
26
Views
3K
om panda
O
Back
Top