Wilson Ultra Tour hybrid stringing and frame shape

#1
Need your help here....

I have been experimenting with several string setups in my UT (18x20) and in order to determine tension for mains and crosses I have consulted tension adviser (http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/TAonline/calc.php). It recommends slightly higher tension in the crosses e.g 21.6/22.5kg (48/50lbs). I have used this recommendation with several all poly setups and the shape of the head remains unchanged after stringing.

I recently started testing hybrid setups (gut/poly). For my initial test (vs team/alu soft) I strung at the tensions mentioned above but did not like the way it played (too much power, lost control) so decided to go up with the tension in the gut mains and slightly up for the poly crosses (24/23kg-53/51lbs). I noticed though that after stringing the shape of the head changed a little (3mm shorter top to bottom , 2mm wider left to right).
I planned on testing even bigger differential between mains and crosses like 2.5kg (5lbs) or even 5kg (10lbs) but now i am hesitant to do it since I expect the head shape change will be even greater...

Is there an "acceptable" range in head shape change? Should I try it? What's your opinion on this? What If I want to try that bigger differential in tension should I go to a different frame or 16x19 string pattern?
I appreciate your help on this.
 
#2
There is no acceptable range of squashing AFAIK. It is what you or the client will tolerate. I shoot for 0-1 mm change at most.

Your issue may be due to the differences in string stiffness and tension maintenance of the mains vs cross. NG holds tension well. Poly does not. Over time, the difference gets worse as the poly loses tension and the NG does not. If I do a full bed of same string in mains and crosses, I normally experience 0-1 mm difference in length, even in Prestiges & Radicals. When I hybrid, unless there is more than 5# differential, I experience between 0-3 mm in hoop change, normally 0-1 mm. But I expect the change to increase if I installed NG mains and poly crosses. You can decrease/minimize the squashing if you can pull the crosses a longer time and minimize inter string friction. If you are seeing large hoop deformations, check how your racquet is mounted.
 
#3
Need your help here....

I have been experimenting with several string setups in my UT (18x20) and in order to determine tension for mains and crosses I have consulted tension adviser (http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/TAonline/calc.php). It recommends slightly higher tension in the crosses e.g 21.6/22.5kg (48/50lbs). I have used this recommendation with several all poly setups and the shape of the head remains unchanged after stringing.

I recently started testing hybrid setups (gut/poly). For my initial test (vs team/alu soft) I strung at the tensions mentioned above but did not like the way it played (too much power, lost control) so decided to go up with the tension in the gut mains and slightly up for the poly crosses (24/23kg-53/51lbs). I noticed though that after stringing the shape of the head changed a little (3mm shorter top to bottom , 2mm wider left to right).
I planned on testing even bigger differential between mains and crosses like 2.5kg (5lbs) or even 5kg (10lbs) but now i am hesitant to do it since I expect the head shape change will be even greater...

Is there an "acceptable" range in head shape change? Should I try it? What's your opinion on this? What If I want to try that bigger differential in tension should I go to a different frame or 16x19 string pattern?
I appreciate your help on this.
I have strung the crosses 50lbs less with kev/poly. I dont worry about deformation. 10lbs is nothing.
 
#6
Strung my ultra tour today at 57/59 with a full bed of tourna big hitter silver. It was about 2mm shorter than the other. What's weird is my yonex duel g 100 with full poly at similar tension doesn't shorten much at all. Iso head shape a factor?
 
#7
Strung my ultra tour today at 57/59 with a full bed of tourna big hitter silver. It was about 2mm shorter than the other. What's weird is my yonex duel g 100 with full poly at similar tension doesn't shorten much at all. Iso head shape a factor?
First, are you certain that both frames were strung on the same machine... by the same person?
Secondly, was the Yonex strung with a +2lb. differential on the crosses (like your Wilson)?
Third, was the Yonex also strung with Tourna Big Hitter Silver?
 
#8
I strung the yonex at 57/58 on the same machine
Yes different string. Yonex poly your spin G. I wonder if the 18 vs 16 mains plays a role in shortening?
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
#9
IME some racquets are more susceptible to “squashing” than others. A lot of the older, flexier Head frames are notorious for this.

Interestingly, the Ultra Tour is in some way based on the H19 - a Wilson Pro Stock racquet. It’s pretty obvious that the H19 (and the H22) are attempted copies of older, flexier Head frames - the H19 closest to a PT630 or the Prestige, and the H22 closest to the Radical line.

It probably has nothing to do with the pattern. Your Ultra has a traditional pattern, with more crosses than mains. The spin effect type patterns - where there are more mains than crosses - will indeed tend to squash more after stringing. But that’s far less likely to happen with a 16x19, 16x18, or 18x20 racquet IME.

So, assuming you’re mounting the racquet to the machine properly, and doing everything you can do to remove inter string friction while installing the crosses...my bet is this particular frame is a little more susceptible to this behavior than others. If you have 2 of them, it would be interesting to compare between the 2. If one of them squashes noticeably more, you *might* have a case to make with Wilson for mfg defect. I wouldn’t hold my breath, though.

Lastly, the last racquet I played with before I switched to the Pure Aero, was the Head Graphene Speed MP. Routinely, I noticed they would squash after stringing them. I bet I strung each of them well over 100 times before I switched. No problem.
 
#11
I'd string the gut higher than the poly. That way, gut can play more like gut. The poly is there to limit its power. String the poly too tight and you'll be playing with a board.
 
#12
So, assuming you’re mounting the racquet to the machine properly, and doing everything you can do to remove inter string friction while installing the crosses...my bet is this particular frame is a little more susceptible to this behavior than others. If you have 2 of them, it would be interesting to compare between the 2. If one of them squashes noticeably more, you *might* have a case to make with Wilson for mfg defect. I wouldn’t hold my breath, though.
I am using a stringway ml100 with fixed clamps. What would be good practice to remove inter string friction while installing the crosses?

I have 4 UT and all of them exhibit this behavior regardless of string used. If I string the mains at higher tension than the crosses some squashing occurs. The good thing is that it is max 3mm with the tensions I have used up to now (24kg max). But I would be afraid to go 27/23 kg (mains/crosses) for example...
 
#15
The Ultra tour is fairly flexible at 63 RA and if it works with the TA full bed it looks like you don't have a mounting issue. I'd try to contact @Technatic to see if he has any suggestions dependant on the string stiffness.
 
#16
I recently started testing hybrid setups (gut/poly). For my initial test (vs team/alu soft) I strung at the tensions mentioned above but did not like the way it played (too much power, lost control) so decided to go up with the tension in the gut mains and slightly up for the poly crosses (24/23kg-53/51lbs). I noticed though that after stringing the shape of the head changed a little (3mm shorter top to bottom , 2mm wider left to right).
I planned on testing even bigger differential between mains and crosses like 2.5kg (5lbs) or even 5kg (10lbs) but now i am hesitant to do it since I expect the head shape change will be even greater...
Why didn't you bump up the DT in the TA by 3 or more and use the recommended tensions from the TA?
 
#17
Why didn't you bump up the DT in the TA by 3 or more and use the recommended tensions from the TA?
I did that but the recommendation of TA is always to string the crosses a little higher than the mains for UT.... but for my gut/poly hybrid tests I would like the gut (mains) tension higher than the poly (crosses). I contacted Fred via email and his recommendation was to string poly crosses higher than the gut mains contrary to what most here (and elsewhere) recommend. I did try that (see original post, 21.6kg vs team mains/22.5kg alu soft crosses) but for the first 3-4 play hours the stick had a very weird feel that I cannot exactly describe. I guess after that the poly crosses lost some tension and the feel was much better..
 
#18
^^OK I believe the TA is also based on full bed stringing but Fred could verify that. Sounds like the damned if you do and damned if you don’t scenario. What’s a body to do? Get a stiffer racket? Live with the deformation? Don’t use hybrids? Deform the racket prior to stringing?
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
#19
I am using a stringway ml100 with fixed clamps. What would be good practice to remove inter string friction while installing the crosses?

I have 4 UT and all of them exhibit this behavior regardless of string used. If I string the mains at higher tension than the crosses some squashing occurs. The good thing is that it is max 3mm with the tensions I have used up to now (24kg max). But I would be afraid to go 27/23 kg (mains/crosses) for example...
As you tension each cross, push it up towards the previous cross. Or some will “wiggle” the cross string up and down as it is tensioned. Then, when you’re done tensioning the string, before you clamp the string and release the tension head, straighten the cross string as much as possible. Any straightening that is done after the string is under tension will be an indication of some tension loss. It’s not always easy to get this perfect...but you should be able to get darn close.

If you increase the differential, I would expect the squashing side effect to be exacerbated, unfortunately. I wouldn’t be super concerned with what squashing you’ve been experiencing so far. But I wouldn’t be dying to further increase the differential, either.
 
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