Wilson Ultra Tour (Monfils)

zalive

Hall of Fame
I could never add lead at 12 o'clock because the lead tape always gets messed up from stringing machine mounts. I also don't want to add it underneath the bumper guard because it's hard to remove and I essentially waste a bumper guard if I had to take it off.

I just had my match frame's bumper guard replaced and it would not go back on correctly and had to use grommet tubing. This is probably the fourth time I've replaced the bumper guard and the first time that it's happened. I think the older your racquet gets and then more you restring it, the graphite fibers break and the hoop gets larger over time.
I don't understand quite, does the tape fall off or you're talking about the pressure marks that machine mounts leave? It's true stringing machine applies pressure so it leaves a mark on the lead tape, however lead tape stays there nevertheless if you stick it correctly.

You need to make sure you clean thoroughly with a cotton swab and alcohol the inside of the frame where you stick the lead tape. Sometimes there is manufacturing residue (experienced with Wilson) which prevents proper adhesion, and if the racquet is not new there will be dirt. But after cleaning the frame there should be no problem, unless there's something wrong with lead tape's glue. I recommend Tourna lead tape as each package I had experience with (I got them mostly through the internet, some from US through the bay, some from German and English web shops though my local shop sells is as well) was perfect, never had issues with any. I use otherwise a reel of Gamma lead tape but its glue is somehow worse, though it stays in place every time if I clean the frame.

Lateral Stability would suffer and I want all I can get here.
10+2 o'clock is not nearly as effective to increase twist stability, though on some frames it really fits well. It's because twist weight is proportional to the square of the distance from the axis going through the handle. Math says that if you place mass on the outer side of 3+9 o'clock, you have roughly 15% twist weight increase compared to placing it on the inside of the frame - for ones wanting the maximum effect with the minimum weight increase, I recommend sticking few layers of a bumper tape on the outside (like gamma, plain black), then just cut the strip in the middle to free the grommet holes from stringing. On some racquets it doesn't look bad, but the point is in effectiveness. Anyway, I recommend all existing to 3+9 o'clock, then balance the sweet spot (and make it wider too) with 12 o'clock (or 11-1 o'clock) to change what's happening currently. Top of the grip counterbalance should be twice the 12 o'clock lead tape, 3+9 o'clock counterbalance is with half the mass at the butt, however that's just compensation of stock balance without additional intervention. Lead at the throat compensates the swing just as top of the grip lead, but doesn't compensate the balance equally.

Is the Ultra Tour better with lead at 3 and 9 or 12 o'clock and where would you counter weight to maintain balance? Above the handle or at the buttcap?

I hit a SW FH and plow through more than windshield wipe, so I don't care for the polarized setup much, but I do hit with an ATP FH, similar to Delpo's flat FH stroke.
Polarized setup is effective on any stroke providing you do a good job to ensure racquet swings with ease and evenly. It's about counterbalancing the swing, the 12 o'clock and the top of the handle/throat area are changing things the most when it comes to swing, but in a different direction. So if you start from the frame which swings nicely it's about counterbalancing the influence on the swing. 3+9 o'clock lead is neutral as can be on the swing (nothing is really neutral, but in the realm of possible), providing TW doesn't increase too much but it's about quantity you put there and a personal preferrence.

My recipe is following: counterbalance the 3+9 o'clock mass with half the mass at the butt - it compensate the balance fully and both has minimal influence on the swing. Counterbalance the 12 o'clock mass with twice the mass at the top of the handle - it compensates the balance fully and the swing almost fully - perhaps another half the gram or one additional gram at the top of the handle will be needed for a full swing compensation (+0.5 gram for 1-2 grams at 12 o'clock, +1 gram for 3-4 grams put at 12 o'clock, might be needed for full swing compensation, says the math).
 
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roger presley

Hall of Fame
Is the Ultra Tour better with lead at 3 and 9 or 12 o'clock and where would you counter weight to maintain balance? Above the handle or at the buttcap?

I hit a SW FH and plow through more than windshield wipe, so I don't care for the polarized setup much, but I do hit with an ATP FH, similar to Delpo's flat FH stroke.
Probably on both. Sweet spot is small and power is low.
 

Subaruvich

Semi-Pro
I don't find the sweet spot being small. Actually coming from a 90" racquet I find it huge [emoji4] The power is low indeed, which is good.
 

ed70

Professional
I don't find the sweet spot being small. Actually coming from a 90" racquet I find it huge [emoji4] The power is low indeed, which is good.
Was hitting with the UT yesterday for a few hrs, kind of agree good sweet spot, feels solid frame but power is low which is what I expected looking at the specs.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Was hitting with the UT yesterday for a few hrs, kind of agree good sweet spot, feels solid frame but power is low which is what I expected looking at the specs.
Is power level similar to IG Prestige MP (both being stock), if you had experience by any chance? Or lower?
 

ed70

Professional
Is power level similar to IG Prestige MP (both being stock), if you had experience by any chance? Or lower?
I play with tc97 16x19 and Head youtek prestige MP (red frame) 18x20 98sq inch 320g unstrung. It's considerably lower power than Angell obviously and lower power than the prestige too, however it's a full 15g lighter than the prestige so would be interesting to replicate the weight in some way and keep the balance similar to see how it plays.
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
Can somebody pop the buttcap on their UT and measure the dimensions of the end of the hairpin in mm, out of interest?

Have read that the Wilson prostocks H19/H22 pretty much fit the Head pallets perfectly, which should mean their hairpins are about 18x25mm i think if i remember rightly. Whereas normal retail Wilsons have a wider hairpin and i dont remember finding one yet that fits Head pallets. Would be interesting to know the size of the UT's hairpin?
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
I play with tc97 16x19 and Head youtek prestige MP (red frame) 18x20 98sq inch 320g unstrung. It's considerably lower power than Angell obviously and lower power than the prestige too, however it's a full 15g lighter than the prestige so would be interesting to replicate the weight in some way and keep the balance similar to see how it plays.
Yeah but UT has higher specified SW than YTP, 324 vs 318. In a swing SW has more importance for power than static weight.
(in fact, static weight have no importance for power per se; the importance is in rotatonal inertias it creates, namely, SW, RW and TW).

edit:
One additional thing: UT has a huge stock RW (recoil weight), which is responsible for stability on volleys and returns, but also enhances power on groundstrokes according to my observations related to customization experience. RW of UT according to TW specs is 170, which is pretty big for a stock racquet. YTP stock according to TW specs has RW around 157.

This suggests that UT layup is made lower powered in comparison to YTP's layup, taking into account that UT's head size is similar (even little bigger) in comparison.
That is, UT is somewhat similar in power level to older Prestige layups.

edit2: TW rounds balance from inches to cm with discarding mm's, that's pretty moronic. Actual balance of UT according to TW specs is 32.4 cm, not 32 cm like they wrote. So, corrected stock TW of UT is around 164, not 170.
 
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ed70

Professional
My prestige was actually measured at 325, used to have 4 of them but kept this one as it was off spec and always played at my preferred sw. Also I use a more powerful string combination in my prestige origin and a 18g poly. The UT had fresh rpm 17g in which is fairly low powered, so I'd say maybe comparable to the prestige power wise. I agree tho for me probably not much room for customization 330sw is as high as i go.
 

onarj

New User
I don't understand quite, does the tape fall off or you're talking about the pressure marks that machine mounts leave? It's true stringing machine applies pressure so it leaves a mark on the lead tape, however lead tape stays there nevertheless if you stick it correctly.

You need to make sure you clean thoroughly with a cotton swab and alcohol the inside of the frame where you stick the lead tape. Sometimes there is manufacturing residue (experienced with Wilson) which prevents proper adhesion, and if the racquet is not new there will be dirt. But after cleaning the frame there should be no problem, unless there's something wrong with lead tape's glue. I recommend Tourna lead tape as each package I had experience with (I got them mostly through the internet, some from US through the bay, some from German and English web shops though my local shop sells is as well) was perfect, never had issues with any. I use otherwise a reel of Gamma lead tape but its glue is somehow worse, though it stays in place every time if I clean the frame.



10+2 o'clock is not nearly as effective to increase twist stability, though on some frames it really fits well. It's because twist weight is proportional to the square of the distance from the axis going through the handle. Math says that if you place mass on the outer side of 3+9 o'clock, you have roughly 15% twist weight increase compared to placing it on the inside of the frame - for ones wanting the maximum effect with the minimum weight increase, I recommend sticking few layers of a bumper tape on the outside (like gamma, plain black), then just cut the strip in the middle to free the grommet holes from stringing. On some racquets it doesn't look bad, but the point is in effectiveness. Anyway, I recommend all existing to 3+9 o'clock, then balance the sweet spot (and make it wider too) with 12 o'clock (or 11-1 o'clock) to change what's happening currently. Top of the grip counterbalance should be twice the 12 o'clock lead tape, 3+9 o'clock counterbalance is with half the mass at the butt, however that's just compensation of stock balance without additional intervention. Lead at the throat compensates the swing just as top of the grip lead, but doesn't compensate the balance equally.



Polarized setup is effective on any stroke providing you do a good job to ensure racquet swings with ease and evenly. It's about counterbalancing the swing, the 12 o'clock and the top of the handle/throat area are changing things the most when it comes to swing, but in a different direction. So if you start from the frame which swings nicely it's about counterbalancing the influence on the swing. 3+9 o'clock lead is neutral as can be on the swing (nothing is really neutral, but in the realm of possible), providing TW doesn't increase too much but it's about quantity you put there and a personal preferrence.

My recipe is following: counterbalance the 3+9 o'clock mass with half the mass at the butt - it compensate the balance fully and both has minimal influence on the swing. Counterbalance the 12 o'clock mass with twice the mass at the top of the handle - it compensates the balance fully and the swing almost fully - perhaps another half the gram or one additional gram at the top of the handle will be needed for a full swing compensation (+0.5 gram for 1-2 grams at 12 o'clock, +1 gram for 3-4 grams put at 12 o'clock, might be needed for full swing compensation, says the math).
Do you have to add lead at 12 to increase stability or is it enough to add just at 3+9?
 

dgoran

Hall of Fame
Few more wall impressions.

This thing takes lead EXTREMELY well.
I tried just adding 6grams in different locations and results are amazing I feel that it transforms this stick.
I tried 3 gr at 12 and 3gr just above the handle
6g at 3 and 9
6g in butcap

And all were great for certain type of player
6g in butcap surprised me the most as It made racquet feel really soft
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Do you have to add lead at 12 to increase stability or is it enough to add just at 3+9?
Those are two different (and complementary) aspects (different axis') of stability. One is stability agains twisting (twist weight) the other is stability regarding recoil (recoil weight). 3+9 o'clock lead increases twist stability, while 12 o'clock lead plus tailweighting increases recoil weight.

6g in butcap surprised me the most as It made racquet feel really soft
It has similar effect on variety of racquets. Increases recoil weight significantly which is responsible a lot for comfort.
 
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onarj

New User
Few more wall impressions.

This thing takes lead EXTREMELY well.
I tried just adding 6grams in different locations and results are amazing I feel that it transforms this stick.
I tried 3 gr at 12 and 3gr just above the handle
6g at 3 and 9
6g in butcap

And all were great for certain type of player
6g in butcap surprised me the most as It made racquet feel really soft
Did the 6g in the buttcap make the racquet more solid?
 

onarj

New User
Those are two different (and complementary) aspects (different axis') of stability. One is stability agains twisting (twist weight) the other is stability regarding recoil (recoil weight). 3+9 o'clock lead increases twist stability, while 12 o'clock lead plus tailweighting increases recoil weight.



It has similar effect on variety of racquets. Increases recoil weight significantly which is responsible a lot for comfort.
Ok, so to increase twistweight its ok just to add lead at 3+9 and nowhere else? I dont neccessary have to add lead at 12?
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Just an observation (long rant really), but, why are a bunch of people that has no interest in that frame feel the need to express how this frame is not a good frame?

It might just be me, in fact it is 100% me the problem I would guess. Maybe I should go spend some time on the new Babolat frames and express how stiff these frames are and why they suck. Or maybe go on the RF97A threads and complain about the heavy weight, lack of maneuvrability, stiffness and how RF doesn't even play that frame. Or any other racquet thread really and just complain why it is not good for me, like anybody cares... People really do that?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but for those of us that have been waiting for low stiffness, foam filled, 18x20 platform frame, this is pretty much the only frame in its class today. Countless trolls won't change that. In fact, I think trolls should at least wait to demo it before dissing it. I mean, what credibility you guys think you have?

You want a stiff, open string pattern frame? You can open just about any other thread in this sub forum and you'll be served.

Finally, complaining about Monfils as the pro on the freaking cardboard endorsing it? Come on, guy is top 20, has reach top 6. It's not like you can pick a #1 player for every single frame a company puts out. Plus, if this is in fact a H19 mould, it's the frame he has been playing with all his time with Wilson.

Finally, he might not be #1 player or won numerous slams, but that guy is an artist on a tennis court. I'll just put this in here...

If I had to guess, most of these thread fall into these categories:
Opinions (we all know about what they say about opinions) / Comments
Subjectivity
Experience
Questions (what a range too) / Looking for Suggestions
Sometimes Respect gets Lost...

My view and what I try achieve while I drop in here...
Here to help and guide assist as best I can (sometimes without pulling my hair out). I opted to use humor instead / with that I can get misunderstood - my bad...
Now I try not to be an answer man (believe it is better to teach a man to fish - that just give him one)

Players can and will put down frames.
That baffles me.
My outlook is just to find the best frame for you and your game.
Be open minded, be patient, dont' be pursued by others, hype, marketing or endorsements, demo /test ..
So many great choices out there...We are some luck to have so many great choices and options..
Most of the time, too many for most...
There is no reason to hate or dislike a frame...
Or think your frame is the only one that holds a candle light..
 
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Phantasm

Semi-Pro
What're people stringing with? I think the racket would take thinner guage strings really well with the tight pattern. I use Revolution 18g in my PT630 to good power/spin since i'm not a string breaker. I'm trying Hyper-G next in my PT630.


Haven't hopped on the UTour train yet since i want the price to drop a bit but I want another blue racket @_@
 

Panquake

Rookie
What're people stringing with? I think the racket would take thinner guage strings really well with the tight pattern. I use Revolution 18g in my PT630 to good power/spin since i'm not a string breaker. I'm trying Hyper-G next in my PT630.


Haven't hopped on the UTour train yet since i want the price to drop a bit but I want another blue racket @_@
18g poly goes dead in less than a week. I don't break strings but that's why I use 16g poly


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Panquake

Rookie
Would 2g at each side at 3 + 9 be enough to feel any difference? And will it affect the balance drastically?
2g on each side is what I did with my H22s and it is much better, plus balance doesn't matter that much, MgR/I I what matters. Just slap it on and try it for yourself


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Panquake

Rookie
I'm going to pick up the UT demo now! Will hit groundies, volleys, and returns with a ball machine


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onarj

New User
I Dont get it. Why don't people just add a whole lot of weight at 3+9 to get a higher twist rate? What is the downsides?
 

moon shot

Hall of Fame
I Dont get it. Why don't people just add a whole lot of weight at 3+9 to get a higher twist rate? What is the downsides?
Reflex volley lobs.

Edit: The weight is great when your timing is on and you are firing Delpo forehands and Wawrinka backhands but then other days if you are off it becomes more of a Stan error reel than highlights. You try to close at the net but the racquet lags leaving the face open ... and you lob the volley.
 
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YellowFedBetter

Hall of Fame
im just messin ... i couldnt even lift djoker's racquet off the ground. do have an ultra tour on the way though. as i noted above (somewhere), i hit with a demo and it seemed very light and low-powered. it would need a mile of lead tape to get up to the weight of djoker's rad.
I see. No problem.
 

Classic-TXP-IG MID

Hall of Fame
That's 4 grams total at 3+9 o'clock, that certainly makes a difference.
And would affect the balance... I would add weight at 7" above butt cap as well to keep the balance... and personally, at 12 o'clock to pull the sweetspot higher and ensure it isn't dead at the top of the hoop...
 

Panquake

Rookie
Just hit with the Ultra Tour and was underwhelmed because I've been spoiled with my H22's. I'm playing doubles later tonight and I will write a review after


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zalive

Hall of Fame
And would affect the balance... I would add weight at 7" above butt cap as well to keep the balance... and personally, at 12 o'clock to pull the sweetspot higher and ensure it isn't dead at the top of the hoop...
For total of 4 grams at 3+9 o'clock I recommend balancing with 2 grams near the butt, as both positions are pretty neutral regarding changing how a racquet swings.

Top of the handle counterbalancing is useful whe adding lead at 12 o'clock, because those spots change how a racquet swings big. In which case you need to put twice as much (of what you put at 12 o'clock) at the top of the handle to counter both balance and swing.

If you combine, as you suggest, both 3+9 o'clock lead and 12 o'clock lead, you can combine as well lead at the top of the handle with the lead near the butt cap. Pro customizers do this. All apply silicone (near the butt) and there's usually some lead wrapped at the top of the handle too. Getting the balance right is mostly math. But getting the swing right is the best if based on trying how it feels, through shadow swings, and when hitting the ball. Math can help there (MgR/I) but fine tuning is best done based on experience.

All in all, you said it all :)
 
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zalive

Hall of Fame
My H19 has around a 345 strung SW without any lead tape.
Are you 100% sure there's no lead tape under the bumper guard grommet on your H19 pro stock?
Because SW at 345 sounds hardly as a pro stock platform swing weight...I don't say it's impossible but sounds too much for a platform...
 

skuludo

Professional
I pulled off the grommets in an unstrung Ultra Tour to take a look at the hoop through the drill holes. The hoop seems to be filled with something.
 

Panquake

Rookie
Are you 100% sure there's no lead tape under the bumper guard grommet on your H19 pro stock?
Because SW at 345 sounds hardly as a pro stock platform swing weight...I don't say it's impossible but sounds too much for a platform...
My H22's came at 355 sw strung


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zalive

Hall of Fame
My H22's came at 355 sw strung
We're not talking about the same thing (or we are?).
It's no wonder if pro stock sold at the net comes already customized to player's specs.
And the only way to be sure whether there's lead under the grommet is to actually take it off.
Pro stock platforms need to ensure space to be customized to each players preferrence and as well to be customized to identical specs, as just as any other racquet there will be manufacturing variance, so they have to be customized to final specs to become equal. So leaving a SW similar to end specs of some pro players doesn't make much sense.
 

Panquake

Rookie
We're not talking about the same thing.
It's no wonder if pro stock sold at the net come already customized to player's specs.
And the only way to be sure whether there's lead under the grommet is to actually take it off.
It was not customized, it came as a platform. No lead in the hoop (I took the bumper off) and only a small amount of silicone in the butt of one. It was 305g unstrung and 325g strung before my customization


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Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
The consensus seems to be the Ultra Tour being extremely low powered. If that's the case, why did Wilson bother to stiffen the frame to 66/63 RA unstrung/strung? If it were meant to be low powered, why not just manufacture it to be flexible? I'd rather have a soft and low powered frame than "stiff" and low powered frame.

Maybe it was based on economics and stiffer resins had to be used in to reduce the amount of graphite needed --glue being cheaper than graphite. You would think the $249 price tag would have covered all the marketing and manufacturing costs already. I would even pay $299 (Prince Bryan Bros.) price for a true H19. Nevertheless, I will give this racquet a chance.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
It was not customized, it came as a platform. No lead in the hoop (I took the bumper off) and only a small amount of silicone in the butt of one. It was 305g unstrung and 325g strung before my customization
355 SW strung in its stock manufacturing form? Incredible...
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
I pulled off the grommets in an unstrung Ultra Tour to take a look at the hoop through the drill holes. The hoop seems to be filled with something.
Is it a greey-yellow foam? Maybe the whole racquet IS foam filled.

355 SW strung in its stock manufacturing form? Incredible...
I thought the H19/22 pro stocks came quite head heavy before customisation which would make a high inital SW, given the static weight.

One reason i was never too keen to try them.
 

lidoazndiabloboi

Hall of Fame
355 SW strung in its stock manufacturing form? Incredible...
Yeah I've checked under the bumper, no lead at all. The previous owner of the racket even cut off part of the bumper guard because he felt it was too heavy. Sigh... Ive been looking for a replacement bumper ever since.

On another note, I have a H22 16x19 prototype from Wilson, no lead at all, with a 365 strung SW. It hits a massive ball. It was supposedly a test racket for Michael Russell.
 

lidoazndiabloboi

Hall of Fame
Is it a greey-yellow foam? Maybe the whole racquet IS foam filled.



I thought the H19/22 pro stocks came quite head heavy before customisation which would make a high inital SW, given the static weight.

One reason i was never too keen to try them.
I've had some come very high in weight and SW, and Ive had other that come below 300g and 290sw
 
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