Wilson105s vs Vortex Pro116

[comeback]

Sorry about the closeness of the numbers but The 105s ratings are on the left and the Vortex numbers are next on the right.

Wilson 105s Vortex Pro 116

Stiffness 69 70

Weight 11 oz 10.75 oz

Balance 6 pts hl 4-5 pts hl

Length 27.5 28.5

Beam Width25mm 25mm

Pattern 16x15 14x17


My Play Test Scores

Spin 10 9

Power 10 9

Control 5 10

Stability 7 10

Maneuverability 7 9

Reach 8 10

With the 105s I was winning matches pretty easily on clay where I was able to set up against 4.0 players by hitting big serves and big first strike forehands. But struggled against 4.5-5-0 players especially on hard courts. I could not sustain a rally or control anything hard back at me or midcourt/approaches and volleys. Doubles was also difficult as I was not enjoying the feel and lack of control.

I ran across a Vortex Rep who let me demo the Pro 116 for 10 days. I was intrigued with the good players using it. In 4 matches with the Pro 116 against 5.0 players I won 1 and lost 3 (all in 3 sets). In 3 matches i beat several 4.5 and 4.0’s handily. The 116 head and extra length feels like a 95 in maneuverability. The obvious extra reach really helped me on serves, wide returns and gave me extra points. I then purchased one and strung at recommended 55 lbs with Vortex Mega Spin Hex Hybrid Poly 1.35..It lasted about 14 good sets. But by buying a reel it will cost me approx $6 per string job. Mine now weighs 11.25 oz after replacing the grip and adding racket head tape. A picture of the Green Pro 116 is on the Vortex Website http://store.vortextennis.com/ but says “not available” with slightly different specs than what I received.

Conclusion: The Vortex is simply a better racket for me. It gives me Power, Spin and CONTROL

 

[comeback]

Sorry about the closeness of the numbers but The 105s ratings are on the left and the Vortex numbers are next on the right.

Wilson 105s Vortex Pro 116

Stiffness 69 70

Weight 11 oz 10.75 oz

Balance 6 pts hl 4-5 pts hl

Length 27.5 28.5

Beam Width25mm 25mm

Pattern 16x15 14x17


My Play Test Scores

Spin 10 9

Power 10 9

Control 5 10

Stability 7 10

Maneuverability 7 9

Reach 8 10

With the 105s I was winning matches pretty easily on clay where I was able to set up against 4.0 players by hitting big serves and big first strike forehands. But struggled against 4.5-5-0 players especially on hard courts. I could not sustain a rally or control anything hard back at me or midcourt/approaches and volleys. Doubles was also difficult as I was not enjoying the feel and lack of control.

I ran across a Vortex Rep who let me demo the Pro 116 for 10 days. I was intrigued with the good players using it. In 4 matches with the Pro 116 against 5.0 players I won 1 and lost 3 (all in 3 sets). In 3 matches i beat several 4.5 and 4.0’s handily. The 116 head and extra length feels like a 95 in maneuverability. The obvious extra reach really helped me on serves, wide returns and gave me extra points. I then purchased one and strung at recommended 55 lbs with Vortex Mega Spin Hex Hybrid Poly 1.35..It lasted about 14 good sets. But by buying a reel it will cost me approx $6 per string job. Mine now weighs 11.25 oz after replacing the grip and adding racket head tape. A picture of the Green Pro 116 is on the Vortex Website http://store.vortextennis.com/ but says “not available” with slightly different specs than what I received.

Conclusion: The Vortex is simply a better racket for me. It gives me Power, Spin and CONTROL

This racket continues to perform great for me and s/b demoed by anyone looking for the big 3 (power,spin and CONTROL). Any other Vortex users out there? Where is the Dark Knight when you need him?

 

[Sander001]

Banned. Probably for spamming misinformation.
Mind the placebo!

 

[The Dark Knight]

This racket continues to perform great for me and s/b demoed by anyone looking for the big 3 (power,spin and CONTROL). Any other Vortex users out there? Where is the Dark Knight when you need him?

Hey comeback,

Sadly this is a conservative sport and anything new or different is automatically looked down upon or even cared about, you won't get much interest here on the vortex......I'm glad you dared to be different

But the 105s is proof how great the Vortex line actually is. Why you may ask?

This whole "spin technology" is not new....Vortex came out with it 10 years ago?

No one paid attention or even would try it.......

Now Wilson copies Vortex and it's all the rage. Prince took notice and is also jumping on the bandwagon.......

But in truth the Vortex is the original and better than both....here's why.....

First and foremost Vortex uses its own strings and has more variety in types of strings that should be used.

Second the construction of the Vortex sticks is nothing short of amazing. The "V" part of the stick is raised higher up , and the sizes of the head and variety is just so much better than the Wilson "s"

The Wilson's "sling shot" effect I think is a tad too much....the ball just sits up higher . The Vortex hits a much heavier and devastating ball.

At the net.....I have never seen a better racquet in my life than the 116......absolutely hands down the greatest volley stick ever made.

I have never actually tried the Pro version of the 116......but I have heard that its amazing and even better than the regular 116 which I have.

I personally don't play with just one Vortex stick....I use different ones on different occasions and conditions .

I'll use the 116 for doubles, the 100 for hardcourt singles, the 108 for clay court singles, and if I'm playing against a college kid I will actually use that gigantic one....the 135 or something ? The yellow stick? Have you tried that stick? It's INSANE.......

There is no serve that you will not be able to return.....it's a monster at the net.....and it's even longer than the 116 allowing you tongetbto more balls that a college kid will hit .

In fact the college kid I played and beat with it said "aha! That racquet is illegal!"

I assured him it was just within the rules

 

[Sander001]

This whole "spin technology" is not new....Vortex came out with it 10 years ago?

No one paid attention or even would try it.......

Now Wilson copies Vortex and it's all the rage. Prince took notice and is also jumping on the bandwagon.......

But in truth the Vortex is the original and better than both

Then why did Vortex abandon it if it was "so good"? Currently there are 7 racquets from Vortex and none of them offer the Spin Effect string patterns. All I see are racquets with very open patterns which is not the same thing and, very open patterns have been around for much longer than 10yrs.

 

[comeback]

Hey comeback,

Sadly this is a conservative sport and anything new or different is automatically looked down upon or even cared about, you won't get much interest here on the vortex......I'm glad you dared to be different

But the 105s is proof how great the Vortex line actually is. Why you may ask?

This whole "spin technology" is not new....Vortex came out with it 10 years ago?

No one paid attention or even would try it.......

Now Wilson copies Vortex and it's all the rage. Prince took notice and is also jumping on the bandwagon.......

But in truth the Vortex is the original and better than both....here's why.....

First and foremost Vortex uses its own strings and has more variety in types of strings that should be used.

Second the construction of the Vortex sticks is nothing short of amazing. The "V" part of the stick is raised higher up , and the sizes of the head and variety is just so much better than the Wilson "s"

The Wilson's "sling shot" effect I think is a tad too much....the ball just sits up higher . The Vortex hits a much heavier and devastating ball.

At the net.....I have never seen a better racquet in my life than the 116......absolutely hands down the greatest volley stick ever made.

I have never actually tried the Pro version of the 116......but I have heard that its amazing and even better than the regular 116 which I have.

I personally don't play with just one Vortex stick....I use different ones on different occasions and conditions .

I'll use the 116 for doubles, the 100 for hardcourt singles, the 108 for clay court singles, and if I'm playing against a college kid I will actually use that gigantic one....the 135 or something ? The yellow stick? Have you tried that stick? It's INSANE.......

There is no serve that you will not be able to return.....it's a monster at the net.....and it's even longer than the 116 allowing you tongetbto more balls that a college kid will hit .

In fact the college kid I played and beat with it said "aha! That racquet is illegal!"

I assured him it was just within the rules

Thanks for the support DK... YOU'VE said it all along. i never thought i would be using a 116 stick with a 28.5 length with full poly which plays and maneuvers like a 95 sq inch!!! But after playing with it and the easy power and spin i was getting, it was a no brainer and as you say approach shots and volleys go where you aim. .Luckily the Vortex Rep is a tournament player that lives in my area (which i just moved to) so the demoing was easy..Most players will never try it for not having easy access to demo Vortex (but they do give a free 30 days demo). And it's an ego thing to have big name rackets..I saw several players with the yellow one and spoke to them too. The Vortex Rep sells lots of them but they really sell themselves.

At almost 63 yo i just finished 3rd in a 4.5 league with over 25 players and beat (2) 5.0 players. I lost 4 matches to 5.0 players all going 3 sets. This Vortex will let me maintain 4.5 or even allow me to continue to challenge 5.0's. After the big serve and forehand, my favorite shot is after being pulled wide on a crosscourt backhand i reach out and knife a skidder slice backhand back to my bewildered opponent.

Believe me i am not bragging about my results. I am just so happy to have found my holy grail at this late age..I'm not sure if i would have pursued Vortex without reading DK's posts here.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Then why did Vortex abandon it if it was "so good"? Currently there are 7 racquets from Vortex and none of them offer the Spin Effect string patterns. All I see are racquets with very open patterns which is not the same thing and, very open patterns have been around for much longer than 10yrs.

Sanders ,

There you go again talking about something you have never tried before .

It's amazing how closed minded you are .

How can you possibly know something without trying it ?

Anyway Vortex actually was not the first .....all these sticks are based on Mark Woodfordes stick .....which I think was 12x14??!

Snauwert came out with it first .

I spoke to Tom Olstead the owner of Vortex and he himself told me the Vortex was based on the woodforde model.

Now it's true that the Wilson spin racquets have one less string but it's the same idea and there still is snap back......the construction of the vortex sticks are such that the pattern is in a "V" shape where it's denser at the bottom and wider at the top.

No one have these open patterns the time of day and now are all the rage.

I don't know all the science behind it but the sticks are constructed really well....I don't know if it's aerodynamics or what but the sticks are great.

I'm not sure what your talking about "abandoning " or what that has to do with anything .

7 sticks from a tiny company with like 5 employees is a lot of models .

 

[The Dark Knight]

Thanks for the support DK... YOU'VE said it all along. i never thought i would be using a 116 stick with a 28.5 length with full poly which plays and maneuvers like a 95 sq inch!!! But after playing with it and the easy power and spin i was getting, it was a no brainer and as you say approach shots and volleys go where you aim. .Luckily the Vortex Rep is a tournament player that lives in my area (which i just moved to) so the demoing was easy..Most players will never try it for not having easy access to demo Vortex (but they do give a free 30 days demo). And it's an ego thing to have big name rackets..I saw several players with the yellow one and spoke to them too. The Vortex Rep sells lots of them but they really sell themselves.

At almost 63 yo i just finished 3rd in a 4.5 league with over 25 players and beat (2) 5.0 players. I lost 4 matches to 5.0 players all going 3 sets. This Vortex will let me maintain 4.5 or even allow me to continue to challenge 5.0's. After the big serve and forehand, my favorite shot is after being pulled wide on a crosscourt backhand i reach out and knife a skidder slice backhand back to my bewildered opponent.

Believe me i am not bragging about my results. I am just so happy to have found my holy grail at this late age..I'm not sure if i would have pursued Vortex without reading DK's posts here.

I'm happy for you too!!!!

It's truly a great company and it's just your secret ! Most people won't even look at the stick .

I find the 116 more of a doubles stick or a serve and volley stick .....but wow is it awesome.

What people don't realize about vortex is actually how unbelievably great their strings are.....

If you ever have a chance try using their 15 guage multi in the mains and the 15 guage poly in the crosses .......I found this to be an incredible set up.....

Also I found that stringing loose is pretty helpful.....45 pounds or lower.

Enjoy the Vortex, but don't look for support from the tennis community here.....it's not going to happen.

 

[Sander001]

How can you possibly know something without trying it ?

Because...wait for it...I can count. I know time and again you demonstrate that you have no or very limited critical thinking capabilities (driving home the point that you thought % and lbs are the same thing in another thread) so it must be near impossible for you to get over the fact that other people can do remarkable things, like count to 20. You need to get over this.

The spin effect is based on having fewer crosses than mains, it's not just simply having an open pattern. Very open patterns have been around for a long time and contrary to your statement, the big manufacturers have had them and they haven't taken off like Spin Effect.

Your assertion that tennis is a very conservative sport because players are reluctant to try different things, drives home the point about how ignorant you are, even in your own surroundings.
Take a look at how many manufacturers there are for racquets, strings, grips and then multiply that by 10(if you do want to be conservative) because their offerings aren't just flash in the pan fads, they're products that sustain in the market because the tennis demographic is as diverse as its wants and needs.

Just because you haven't seen very open patterns before Vortex doesn't mean they invented them, and it also doesn't mean everybody's in the same boat as you.

 

[comeback]

Because...wait for it...I can count. I know time and again you demonstrate that you have no or very limited critical thinking capabilities (driving home the point that you thought % and lbs are the same thing in another thread) so it must be near impossible for you to get over the fact that other people can do remarkable things, like count to 20. You need to get over this.

The spin effect is based on having fewer crosses than mains, it's not just simply having an open pattern. Very open patterns have been around for a long time and contrary to your statement, the big manufacturers have had them and they haven't taken off like Spin Effect.

Your assertion that tennis is a very conservative sport because players are reluctant to try different things, drives home the point about how ignorant you are, even in your own surroundings.
Take a look at how many manufacturers there are for racquets, strings, grips and then multiply that by 10(if you do want to be conservative) because their offerings aren't just flash in the pan fads, they're products that sustain in the market because the tennis demographic is as diverse as its wants and needs.

Just because you haven't seen very open patterns before Vortex doesn't mean they invented them, and it also doesn't mean everybody's in the boat as you.

I think if you check out more on the Vortex; the open pattern runs down on an angle that is differerent from other open patterns.Check out the Vortex facebook info..Lots of tournament players are using Vortex successfully
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vortex-Tennis/160320609806

Here some top players talk with the owner (also a tournament player) about the unique characteristics of the Vortex
http://store.vortextennis.com/category_s/40.htm

 

[Sander001]

Oh I'm sure they're wonderful racquets, my interest was his assertion that these racquets employ the same methods as Wilson. And then using that assertion to leap to the conclusion that because Vortex did it first, they're deserving of more respect or something.
If Vortex are good racquets, their history doesn't need to be falsely retconned onto the coattails of another manufacturer. Trying to do so makes them look dire.

[PS those players are only talking about a 30 day money back guarantee in that youtube clip, nothing about playing characteristics]

 

[comeback]

Oh I'm sure they're wonderful racquets, my interest was his assertion that these racquets employ the same methods as Wilson. And then using that assertion to leap to the conclusion that because Vortex did it first, they're deserving of more respect or something.
If Vortex are good racquets, their history doesn't need to be falsely retconned onto the coattails of another manufacturer. Trying to do so makes them look dire.

[PS those players are only talking about a 30 day money back guarantee in that youtube clip, nothing about playing characteristics]

sorry, this one from 3 years ago explains the "pyramid" concept in more detail..There has been great improvement since then. My racket is the latest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-feTMelE10

 

[The Dark Knight]

Oh I'm sure they're wonderful racquets, my interest was his assertion that these racquets employ the same methods as Wilson. And then using that assertion to leap to the conclusion that because Vortex did it first, they're deserving of more respect or something.
If Vortex are good racquets, their history doesn't need to be falsely retconned onto the coattails of another manufacturer. Trying to do so makes them look dire.

[PS those players are only talking about a 30 day money back guarantee in that youtube clip, nothing about playing characteristics]

No sanders......

What your really about is pursuing your personal vendetta against me in every thread you can.

Look at this thread for example. No one cares about Vortex....except you....why?

Yes there is one less string on the crosses of the Wilson.....but the idea of a super open string pattern came from Vortex and the ideas are in fact very similar. Yes Wilson has one less cross string than the mains ......Big deal?? Vortex still has less overall strings and the effect is the same .

If you look at the above video, you'll notice at about 1:42 of the video the Vortex rep says
"SPRING BACK".......the video was made long before the Wilson "S" sticks ever came out.

Here's the video again...look at it about 1:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-feTMelE10


the super open string pattern racquets make them similar. Prior to this all racquets were 16x19 or 18x20.

In fact if you add up all the strings on a wilson or on a Vortex ....the vortex 116 still has less over all strings!! They both have the same affect.

In my Kevlar thread you attacked me over a tension of 10 pounds versus 8 pounds and now this minor detail.

You don't actually care about Vortex whatsoever .....what you care about is me.

But all you end up doing is bouncing this thread up more and bringing more attention to Vortex.....so go for it . !

 

[Sander001]

Sure it's similar. Just like this is:

I'm a 35 year old 4.5 player with a true all court game

3 days later:

I'm over 40 and a bit slower now.

All you Vortex advocates have much integrity.

Your youtube video there came well after those studies that spin effect was based on were published.

the super open string pattern racquets make them similar. Prior to this all racquets were 16x19 or 18x20.

SO MUCH INTEGRITY

 

[The Dark Knight]

So your saying Comeback is a liar and has no integrity?

You have never tried the racquet, never met comeback and are just looking for the most minute things you can find.

Why? All because you hate me.

Look the video came out in 2010....the sticks came out way before that and the research on the vortex came out long before that.

First you try and bring up a difference in the pattern....now your jumping on the research?

The fact is is that I don't think that comeback is lying . He loves the stick and is legitimately happy he has tried it.

The only people you are hurting are yourself and people on this board by talking them out of trying something new.

I don't have stock in the company and I don't really care if people use the stick or not.

This thread would have long been dead had you not jumped in here to keep bumping it up.

Conclusion : your vendetta is a failure.

 

[comeback]

All you Vortex advocates have much integrity.

hey Sander, that's a rough comment to make. Since it is Veteran's day tomorrow. I would like to wish my son well as he defends this country overseas as a special forces US Marine. Here's a cool video of my son trying to guide a little boy at the Medal of Honor ceremony White House last feb where his unit was also being honored.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/marine-white-house-corral-boy-ceremony-18467254
I also am a Vietnam Vet 69-71. I want no disagreement with anyone here. We are all here to enjoy and exchange ideas.

I am glad DK is passionate enough to fight the good fight for this racket..He doesn't get anything for it..I spoke to Tom the owner of Vortex several times about stringing my racket and he said he heard of DK but doesn't know him personally. Anyway, i've been involved in tennis as a certified instructor, stringer, USTA tournament director and many other capacities since 1972. I don't want to go into exact details of everything i've done but you don't get too far in this business without some integrity.

I'm going to try and get a Utube type match posted here with me playing with the Vortex 116 but give me some time as i've never done it before.

Again Sander, no arguments , just good info exchanged

 

[tailofdog]

Good people

All you Vortex advocates have much integrity.

hey Sander, that's a rough comment to make. Since it is Veteran's day tomorrow. I would like to wish my son well as he defends this country overseas as a special forces US Marine. Here's a cool video of my son trying to guide a little boy at the Medal of Honor ceremony White House last feb where his unit was also being honored.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/marine-white-house-corral-boy-ceremony-18467254
I also am a Vietnam Vet 69-71. I want no disagreement with anyone here. We are all here to enjoy and exchange ideas.

I am glad DK is passionate enough to fight the good fight for this racket..He doesn't get anything for it..I spoke to Tom the owner of Vortex several times I about stringing my racket and he said he heard of DK but doesn't know him personally. Anyway, i've been involved in tennis as a certified instructor, stringer, USTA tournament director and many other capacities since 1972. I don't want to go into exact details of everything i've done but you don't get too far in this business without some integrity.

I'm going to try and get a Utube type match posted here with me playing with the Vortex 116 but give me some time as i've never done it before.

Again Sander, no arguments , just good info exchanged

E
I dealt with Tom and, found him great!
I had the original ES 116 ES108 and the ES 100 great racquets but just too stiff
For me. I would still be playing with them expect for that. Great people to deal with.
They deserve to succeed!

 

[Sander001]

Comeback: I was challenging his implication that anybody who has tried a Vortex racquet is superior and that all his assertions[no matter how obviously faulty] will be taken at face value. Because of him and the other guy, the opposite is true and he's got a tall mountain to climb and he's way below sea level.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Comeback: I was challenging his implication that anybody who has tried a Vortex racquet is superior and that all his assertions[no matter how obviously faulty] will be taken at face value. Because of him and the other guy, the opposite is true and he's got a tall mountain to climb and he's way below sea level.

Sander,

I did not intend to make any implication that anybody is superior for trying a Vortex racquet .

I do not think that anyone is superior to anyone. You obviously have a an axe to grind and I don't know who the "other guy" is. I don't know you and I actually don't know why you are after me? What did I ever do to you?

Having said that let's just forget about it and if there is anything I have said in the past to offend you then I hereby apologize.

comeback......much respect to you and happy Veterans Day bro.,.,.thanky you ! We owe you !

 

[Sander001]

No need to apologize. Just don't pass off opinion as fact.

 

[The Dark Knight]

No need to apologize. Just don't pass off opinion as fact.

Don't think that I did . This was not even my thread.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Hey Comeback,

Are you still using the Pro 116?

I have been hitting with the regular 116 and I am really loving it . I still have not ever found a better volley racquet in my life .

I'm wondering ....can the pro version actually be better ?

It's a bit longer so I'm wondering how maneuverable it is at the net compared to the regular 116.

 

[comeback]

Hey DK, i am not using the Vortex Pro 116 at the moment..When i was i had some movement and injury issues that i was able to heal..So i thought i would do better with the more manuverable Steam 105s as i don't volley much. After stringing experimentation i finally tamed the 105s..Just this week i'm demoing the Wilson Blade 104 as the 105s is hurting my wrist a little..I'm thinking of selling the pro116 now..

 

[The Dark Knight]

Hey ,

Have not been here in ages....

I just want you guys to know that I still think these sticks are the greatest racquets ever.

They are so far and away better than anything out there and I don't really know why?

They are just stable and easy to play with.

 

[comeback]

Hey DK, Welcome back...The Angell rackets have really clicked where the Vortex seems stagnant here..i sold the Vortex Pro 116 but still have the 108 in my wine collection..i'm addicted to the Steam105s power and spin..I was able to tame it with Ashaway kev 18g/ ZX 17g..ps i think the TT board owes you a debt of gratitude as you can see the Kevlar users have increased dramatically

 

[The Dark Knight]

Hey DK, Welcome back...The Angell rackets have really clicked where the Vortex seems stagnant here..i sold the Vortex Pro 116 but still have the 108 in my wine collection..i'm addicted to the Steam105s power and spin..I was able to tame it with Ashaway kev 18g/ ZX 17g..ps i think the TT board owes you a debt of gratitude as you can see the Kevlar users have increased dramatically

Hey DK, Welcome back...The Angell rackets have really clicked where the Vortex seems stagnant here..i sold the Vortex Pro 116 but still have the 108 in my wine collection..i'm addicted to the Steam105s power and spin..I was able to tame it with Ashaway kev 18g/ ZX 17g..ps i think the TT board owes you a debt of gratitude as you can see the Kevlar users have increased dramatically

Wow really? I'm so happy to hear that!! I had no idea because I have been away for a very long time from these boards and I don't really have much time for it anymore......

It was a tough battle to get people to open their minds....but I do love Kevlar!

As far as the vortex........I have never heard of angel racquets....I'm going to check it out for sure...I'll google it.

I'll also take a look at the boards about the Kevlar.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Ok I just checked out these angel sticks.....it looks like the old topspin idea.....

Same custom idea.

I tried it...I wanted to build a babolat Aeropro at but with a head grip.....I'm sorry to say it did not come close to playing like the ban play.

Some of the technology in these sticks are BS...but some are real.....they cannot be duplicated

 

[The Dark Knight]

Hey DK, i am not using the Vortex Pro 116 at the moment..When i was i had some movement and injury issues that i was able to heal..So i thought i would do better with the more manuverable Steam 105s as i don't volley much. After stringing experimentation i finally tamed the 105s..Just this week i'm demoing the Wilson Blade 104 as the 105s is hurting my wrist a little..I'm thinking of selling the pro116 now..

I spoke to Tom about the pro and Es version .

They are very different sticks .....the ES is shorter , lighter , more maneuverable and more powerful .....in fact he chose the ES over the pro for himself .

I have never tried the pro but I can tell you that I'm no longer very interested to seriously even try the pro other than for fun because I've learned how to play with the ES and my game has gone up another level.

The ES can only be used one way and it can be summed up in one word : MCENROE.

If you want to imitate Mcenroe's style of play then this is the stick !

Volleys are just insanely perfect , and serves are great as well .

Now here's where the ES becomes extremely specialized .....and that's the strokes.....

It's just so freaking powerful that you cannot even attempt a topspin shot .

It's all continental grip and touch .....just imitate Mcenroe .....you will be able to place shots with power .....forget about taking a big stroke with this monster .

If the Mcenroe style of play is your style then there is no racquet on earth better than this puppy....not even Mcenroe's Dunlop is better because he is the only one that can hit his strokes with that stick.

Looking at the old matches of Mcenroe with his tiny wood racquet I can honestly say I think I would give him a run for his money with the ES.

I doubt the Pro 116 can compete with the ES 116 can possibly compete with ES for a mcenroe style of play .....it's not as maneuverable, powerful and it's not even head heavy .

**** note Mcenroe would have to use his wood Dunlop versus my ES 116 for me to even have a shot .

 

[The Dark Knight]

Ok you did a comparison or leg the 105s and the pro 116.

I thought I would do one of 105s and the ES 116.

First the specs

Wilson 105s Vortex Pro 116. Vortex Es 116

Stiffness 69 70. 70

Weight 11 oz 10.75 oz. 9.9 oz

Balance 6 pts hl 4-5 pts hl. 7 points HH

Length 27.5 28.5. 27 3/4

Beam Width25mm 25mm. ??

Pattern 16x15 14x17. 14x 25


My Play Test Scores

Spin 10 10

Power 5 10

Control 10 7

Stability 7 10

Maneuverability 7 10

Reach 8 10

Basically the difference is that the 105s is probably a better all around stick and will appeal to more people .

The ES 116 is a specialized stick that will appeal only to serve and volleyers with Mcenroe touch type of strokes or doubles players.

From just looking at the specs of the two racquets you can clearly see that the ES is just so much more powerful.

The trick with the ES is to let the racquet do all of the work for you . All you need is a continental grip and just basically get your racquet on the ball with a bit of direction .

The ES will do all the work .

The 105s I would say is more of a baseliners stick who has some strokes . The spin is great and the shots are precise .....control is great.

But the 105s did not really hit a very heavy ball whereas the ES did .

At the net it's no competition ....the ES wins hands down . At 116 this racquet is shockingly maneuverable even though it's head heavy . It's basically the greatest volley stick I have ever had the pleasure of playing with.

Serves are also better with the ES as it hits a much heavier ball but the 105s has more control. if your serving into the sun the ES is a better stick on serves because all you have to do is touch the ball and you can actually ace someone .

The ES is just so freaking powerful you cannot take big cuts at the ball .

For topspin the 105 is probably better unless you don't have much top to begin with ....then the Es will do the work for you .

Slices are far better with the ES as are overheads and drops .

Conclusion : which stick you like better will depend on your game . If your a serve and volleyer with compact strokes from the baseline then the ES wins hands down.
On the other hand if you are a baseliners with some tops spin then the 105s is your stick . The ES is very specialized and only made for one and only one style of play ....serve and volley with compact baseline strokes .

 

[comeback]

Great comparison DK, i want to demo the ES116..The 105s can perform in lots of different ways depending on stringing..I am a baseliner and try to win points with the forehand which the 105s gives me over my old pro 116 but the ES116 sounds intriguing.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Great comparison DK, i want to demo the ES116..The 105s can perform in lots of different ways depending on stringing..I am a baseliner and try to win points with the forehand which the 105s gives me over my old pro 116 but the ES116 sounds intriguing.

Don't bother trying the ES 116 it's not for you!

The 105s is clearly a better stick than either 116 for your game ....no question about it .

Having said that .....I think the Vortex ES 108 is a better stick than the 105s.

It just does everything a little better ... It's a tad lighter for more maneuverablity but also a little bigger for more power . It's also just one point stiffer for more control but not overly stiff so as to hurt your arm .

The Vortex 108 just feels more substantial than a 105s right out of the box....and the ball it hits is just so much more devastating than the 105s which feels like a toy in comparison .

Conclusion : you tried the wrong vortex for your style of game ....the 105s should not be compared to either the ES 116 or the pro 116 because they are both meant to do very different things .
The ES 116 and the pro 116 are strictly serve and volley sticks or doubles sticks .....or maybe if you use it from the baseline then as a pusher stick....it's not meant to take big cuts with .
The 105s is more for your style of game but the ES 108 is almost the same stick just a tad better in every department ....especially in the strength of your shots.


Just take a look at the specs and compare....you will notice that they are almost the same stick except the vortex is slightly more powerful in every Dept ....size , stiffness , string pattern.....you will have more power with the ES without sacrificing control as its also just a tad lighter and thinner beamed :

Vortex ES 108..............Wilson 105s

Length: 27 1/2 ........... 27 1/2
Weight: 10.5 ............... 11
Balance: 6pts HL ............6 pts HL
Pattern: 14m x 16c...........16x 15
Flex: 70#R......................69

 

[2ndServe]

Hey DK, i am not using the Vortex Pro 116 at the moment..When i was i had some movement and injury issues that i was able to heal..So i thought i would do better with the more manuverable Steam 105s as i don't volley much. After stringing experimentation i finally tamed the 105s..Just this week i'm demoing the Wilson Blade 104 as the 105s is hurting my wrist a little..I'm thinking of selling the pro116 now..

If you or anyone is interested in selling a Vortex Pro 116 let me know. I tried this racket out and liked it. It's a bit more muted than the 105s

 

[schenkelini]

I would never give mine up.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Big update here .

Vortex has come out with a new line of sticks to replace the ES line.....the XF line which is basically a stiffer beefed up version of the ES line . XF 116 is 75 RA while ES 116 is 72.

I definitely like the new improved XF 116 better than the ES version . Way more control.

Having said all of this I finally purchased the 116 in the pro version and loved it . I cheated a bit and had it custom lengthened to 31 inches !!! What a difference this makes !

The pro is way thinner than the Es version and less powerful and is head light . Best serving stick I have ever tried .

The added length does not give me more power on the serve but rather It increases accuracy and way less double faults .

Also as I’m not the fastest it makes a huge difference in getting to the balls .

Sure the length is illegal but I’m not playing in Wimbledon or even in USTA anymore ....so who cares .

As far as the 105s I think it’s completely inferior in any department but I have not tried extending the length of that racquet .

I highly recommend lengthening any stick to 31 inches for an instant game improvement . Unless of course you are a junior learning the game or playing pro ..... if your playing usta then I doubt anyone will ever look at the length of your stick .

Give it a try !! I love it .....I’m actually considering going to 32 inches !

 

[SC in MA]

Today I had a chance to hit with a friend's Wilson Steam 105s.

Wow. I couldn't believe the easy pop I was getting out of my serve. Like I used to serve more than 20 years ago, or probably longer than that. We played a set of singles and I very easily held serve, which is not the norm when I play him. With the 105s, he had a hard time just getting most of my serves into play. Very unusual.

Volleys were also solid. However, groundstrokes were a different story. Very hard to control. Unless I really had time, I couldn't take my normal full swing if I wanted to keep the ball in the court. Also, I really didn't like the feel hitting groundstokes. Very plastic like.

The strings were Cyclone Tour, which he thought was probably originally strung at 50lbs, but he thought the tension felt like around 45lb.

I wonder if I could gain control of the groundstrokes, but still maintain the serve pop with a different string setup.

Anyway, the 105s really intrigued me. I saw this thread and now I'm curious about the Vortex rackets, since it seems they may offer similar playability, but with more control.

I went to the Vortex website and it seems the Vortex racket that has the specs closest to the 105s is the Pro 100.

Anyone have any thoughts on any of this ?

 

[Hershel]

Anybody hit with the Vortex XF's? Comparison to ES?