Wimbledon 2007 Final : A match that deserves more recognition

Raining hopes

Raining hopes

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Inspired by @ABCD who claims 2008 final was between "baby Nadal and developing Federer"


I don't care for titles like best Fedal ever or greatest final ever .However this was no where near baby Nadal vs weak era Fraud. People need to atleast understand and appreciate one of the best efforts of two legendary players at their best on Grass.

This match is simply beautiful. There are atleast 20 points which deserve to be called point of the match.

Notice how different of a player Federer appears to be from post 2012 versions. He has undeniably strong baseline game with genuinely scary Forehand which basically changes the entire dynamic of the point.



Then you have Nadal. Any idiot who says he doesn't have the game for modern grass will be proven wrong.
Forget his defence , the proper aggression and ballstriking from both wings is outstanding,awkward to look at maybe but effective . People talking about 2018 Backhand, watch him rip the same type of shots along with a Forehand which could go to to the with greates grass FH ever. The defence is incredible but it's the anticipation that really impresses.The 4th set he outplayed a very good Federer who had to dig very deep to win the 5th.
 
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I don't rate this match as highly because I simply don't understand Fed's strategy trying to outgrind Nadal. His serve was his saviour that day.
 
Raining hopes said:
I don't care for titles like best Fedal ever or greatest final ever .However this was no where near baby Nadal vs weak era Fraud. People need to atleast understand and appreciate one of the best efforts of two legendary players at their best on Grass.

This match is simply beautiful. There are atleast 20 points which deserve to be called point of the match.

Notice how different of a player Federer appears to be from post 2012 versions. He has undeniably strong baseline game with genuinely scary Forehand which basically changes the entire dynamic of the point.



Then you have Nadal. Any idiot who says he doesn't have the game for modern grass will be proven wrong.
Forget his defence , the proper aggression and ballstriking from both wings is outstanding,awkward to look at maybe but effective . People talking about 2018 Backhand, watch him rip the same type of shots along with a Forehand which could go to to the with greates grass FH ever. The defence is incredible but it's the anticipation that really impresses.The 4th set he outplayed a very good Federer who had to dig very deep to win the 5th.
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It is unfair that you did not acknowledge me as an inspiration for this thread. You should have been honest and give a credit when credit is due.
 
Raining hopes said:
Sorry for the belated apology. I started this thread inspired by your ignorance :)
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Too late. You should said it in the introductory post and not bury it like this. I would suggest that you edit your first post and make it clear who was your inspiration. Also cite me correctly. Say that I said baby Nadal vs Developing Federer. Anyone who understand tennis can see when viewing both matches that this is like comparing junior W final with W final.
 
ABCD said:
Too late. You should said it in the introductory post and not bury it like this. I would suggest that you edit your first post and make it clear who was your inspiration. Also cite me correctly. Say that I said baby Nadal vs Developing Federer. Anyone who understand tennis can see when viewing both matches that this is like comparing junior W final with W final.
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As you wish your majesty, your ignorance shall no longer go unnoticed and will be heralded in the very first line to any traveller who reads this post.
 
Raining hopes said:
As you wish your majesty, your ignorance shall no longer go unnoticed and will be heralded in the very first line to any traveller who reads this post.
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You have done the right thing. Feel free to add some insulting remarks. I suggest "His (you can say his as I declared myself to be male) astounding ignorance can not remain unchallenged".
 
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The match gets plenty of recognition here. Almost too much if you ask me. Like the 2009 Australian Open final it's 4 great sets that are massively let down from achieving quite outright legendary status on account of a lame 5th. Nadal's level fell of a cliff in that set, by his own admission he choked.

It seems (and I'm not saying I agree with this particularly) that a great 5th set can in the estimation of the majority rescue/elevate patchiness in prior sets (W08, RG13, AO17) more than 4 great ones can elevate a fizzled out fifth (W07, AO09, USO09).
 
ABCD said:
You have done the right thing. Feel free to add some insulting remarks. I suggest "His (you can say his as I declared myself to be male) astounding ignorance can not remain unchallenged".
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All in good faith Sir , in good jest. I don't agree with you and shouldn't have been too upfront about it . But you asked for the first line :)
 
Raining hopes said:
All in good faith Sir , in good jest. I don't agree with you and shouldn't have been too upfront about it . But you asked for the first line :)
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I am happy with what you have done. You are so polite. You must be a very good man in real life. You are probably 25-30 years old, a student or some more intellectual occupation?
 
ABCD said:
I am happy with what you have done. You are so polite. You must be a very good man in real life. You are probably 25-30 years old, a student or some more intellectual occupation?
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Half a student , half a worker. Full time tennis fanatic who for this occasion has lost his sarcasm detector.
 
ibbi said:
The match gets plenty of recognition here. Almost too much if you ask me. Like the 2009 Australian Open final it's 4 great sets that are massively let down from achieving quite outright legendary status on account of a lame 5th. Nadal's level fell of a cliff in that set, by his own admission he choked.

It seems (and I'm not saying I agree with this particularly) that a great 5th set can in the estimation of the majority rescue/elevate patchiness in prior sets (W08, RG13, AO17) more than 4 great ones can elevate a fizzled out fifth (W07, AO09, USO09).
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you should watch the 5th set of Wim 07 final again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. But federer saved all 4 BPs with clutch play. Some falling off a cliff of level from Nadal. :rolleyes:

Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued.

and absolutely ridiculous to call it choking.
 
abmk said:
you should watch the 5th set of Wim 07 final again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. But federer saved all 4 BPs with clutch play. Some falling off a cliff of level from Nadal. [emoji57]

Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued.

and absolutely ridiculous to call it choking.
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Fed definitely went and grabbed that 5th set at 2-2. Only service game he after the break Rafa could only stand and watch each point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
abmk said:
you should watch the 5th set of Wim 07 final again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. But federer saved all 4 BPs with clutch play. Some falling off a cliff of level from Nadal. :rolleyes:

Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued.

and absolutely ridiculous to call it choking.
Click to expand...

That fifth set apart from the final game, where the fight had all but left Nadal and he was resigned to his fate was tense nailbiting tennis. The quality was exceptionally high.
 
abmk said:
you should watch the 5th set of Wim 07 final again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. But federer saved all 4 BPs with clutch play. Some falling off a cliff of level from Nadal. :rolleyes:

Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued.

and absolutely ridiculous to call it choking.
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This is just a gentle reminder about your Djokovic prediction in USO2018. Post it here and you will be a star.
 
Hitman said:
That fifth set apart from the final game, where the fight had all but left Nadal and he was resigned to his fate was tense nailbiting tennis. The quality was exceptionally high.
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You are recognized as probably the most objective poster here. What do you think? Did Nadal play better in W2007 or W2018.
 
ABCD said:
You are recognized as probably the most objective poster here. What do you think? Did Nadal play better in W2007 or W2018.
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Here are my honest thoughts about Nadal from 2007 to Nadal from 2018 at Wimbledon.

In 2007 Nadal was at height of his physical prowess, athletically he was more explosive, his reactions were quicker, his overall foot speed was a sight to behold. He was outplaying Federer for the majority of the match off of the ground, and this was peak Federer who also was still at the height of his powers, although to be fair to Fed, it was the tail end of his true peak. Nadal in 2018 was the more intelligent and well round player, who had a far better array to shots and tactics that he administered throughout his encounter with Djokovic, from the ground he was overall the better player.

In both situations, Federer and Djokovic's superior and incredible clutch serving played a vital role in the downfall of Nadal not winning either of those matches. The 2007 version of Nadal was filled with youth, a much younger body, and you can argue that to compete with Federer he did not need any other strategy other than attack the backhand to open up the court, his issue was that when that plan didn't work and Federer pounced, Nadal didn't have a plan B to fall back on. So 2007 strategically was a less complete player than 2018. The 2018 version changed his tactics many times, attacked the net far more, played much more first strike tennis (again, this is dependent upon who he was playing, it is easier for Nadal to play first strike tennis against Djokovic than it is against Federer. That is simply how the match up goes, and how he has to adjust his game between playing the two. His first strike tennis, unless he is in complete God Mode, is not as effective as a grinding patient rallying game is against Federer. The opposite is true against Djokovic, where the forehand DTL early in the rally and drop shots are a must). Nadal also is able to use slice against Djokovic, which mixes up the patterns of play and creates more interesting exchanges, Nadal cannot use the slice against Federer, who eats it for breakfast, it will be a top spin assault the majority of the time.

Federer dealt with a much youthful lion, who had a very clear tactic, keep in mind the matches couldn't be any more different when it comes to conditions. 2007 was the only final ever played without any sort of roof, it was open air, and was far more windy than any other match, and Nadal thrives in those conditions...2018 was played indoor without any wind. Against Djokovic, Nadal played a much more complete game, in other words, a better array and repertoire of shot making, (again a lot of which would be ineffective against Federer) but he lacked the explosive foot speed and court coverage, even though it wasn't a massive difference, at their level it was enough for Djokovic to expose him.

Finally, Djokovic wasn't at full power in that match. His backhand DTL was missing for large portions of the match because he didn't have the confidence to use it due to the past two years, many times when he should have taken the point like attacking the net, he played a conservative point, allowed Nadal back in, and lost the point. This would not have happened with a peak Djokovic, or even a better playing Djokovic, and peak Federer from 2007 certainly wouldn't be hesitant on committing to some of those shots.
 
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Hitman said:
Here are my honest thoughts about Nadal from 2007 to Nadal from 2018 at Wimbledon.

In 2007 Nadal was at height of his physical prowess, athletically he was more explosive, his reactions were quicker, his overall foot speed was a sight to behold. He was outplaying Federer for the majority of the match off of the ground, and this was peak Federer who also was still at the height of his powers, although to be fair to Fed, it was the tail end of his true peak. Nadal in 2018 was the more intelligent and well round player, who had a far better arrayed to shots and tactics that he administered throughout his encounter with Djokovic, from the ground he was overall the better player.

In both situations, Federer and Djokovic's superior and incredible clutch serving played a vital role in the downfall of Nadal not winning either of the those matches. The 2007 version of Nadal was filled with youth, a much younger body, and you can argue that to compete with Federer he did not need any other strategy other than attack the backhand to open up the court, his issue was that when that plan didn't work and Federer pounced, Nadal didn't have a plan B to fall back on. So 2007 strategically was a less complete player than 2018. The 2018 version changed his tactics many times, attacked the net far more, played much more first strike tennis (again, this is dependent upon who he was playing, it is easier for Nadal to play first strike tennis against Djokovic than it is against Federer. That is simply how the match up goes, and how he has to adjust his game between playing the two. His first strike tennis, unless he is in complete God Mode, is not as effective as a grinding patient rallying game is against Federer. The opposite is true against Djokovic, where the forehand DTL early in the rally and drop shots are a must). Nadal also is able to use slice against Djokovic, which mixes up the patterns of play and creates more interesting exchanges, Nadal cannot use the slice against Federer, who eats it for breakfast, it will be a top spin assault the majority of the time.

Federer dealt with a much youthful lion, who had a very clear tactic, keep in mind the matches couldn't be any more different when it comes to conditions. 2007 was the only final ever played without any sort of roof, it was open air, and was far more windy than any other match, and Nadal thrives in those conditions...2018 was played indoor without any wind. Against Djokovic, Nadal played a much more complete game, in other words, a better array and repertoire of shot making, (again a lot of which would be ineffective against Federer) but he lacked the explosive foot speed and court coverage, even though it wasn't a massive difference, at their level it was enough for Djokovic to expose him.

Finally, Djokovic wasn't at full power in that match. His backhand DTL was missing for large portions of the match because he didn't have the confidence to use it due to the past two years, many times when he should have taken the point like attacking the net, he played a conservative point, allowed Nadal back in, and lost the point. This would not have happened with a peak Djokovic, or even a better playing Djokovic, and peak Federer from 2007 certainly wouldn't be hesitant on committing to some of those shots.
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The best poster on the forum for a reason! Hats off. Interesting and enlightening read
 
Raining hopes said:
The best poster on the forum for a reason! Hats off. Interesting and enlightening read
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How you can say that, when he said similar what I said just used many more words? Carefully analyse the text. Your stance was/is that W2007 is incomparable better than W2018. Hitman says "it is tight, it could be one or another". Even if he says "W2007 is slighltly better" , such stance is miles away from yours. Are you falling for words?

@Hitman: Thank you for the effort and comprehensive response. I advise you a career in politics and take it as a compliment. In this text everyone can find a what they like and take it home. I was happy just with one sentence "Nadal played better in .....".
 
abmk said:
you should watch the 5th set of Wim 07 final again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. But federer saved all 4 BPs with clutch play. Some falling off a cliff of level from Nadal. :rolleyes:

Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued.

and absolutely ridiculous to call it choking.
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Federer played great, I'm not denying that, but Nadal clammed up. He won something like 45% of points behind his first serve in that final set, and went from hitting double digit winners in each of the first 4 sets to about 5 in that one. All the aggression pointed out in the OP dried up.
 
ibbi said:
Federer played great, I'm not denying that, but Nadal clammed up. He won something like 45% of points behind his first serve in that final set, and went from hitting double digit winners in each of the first 4 sets to about 5 in that one. All the aggression pointed out in the OP dried up.
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Like I said, just watch it again.
Nadal had 2 BPs at 1 all and 2 all. You think that came flying into his lap without playing well ? aggression dried up there ?
Like I said "Then federer broke Nadal with a great return game (3-4 winners IIRC). Then 4 unreturnables in the next service game from Fed to seal the break in great fashion. Only in the last game was Nadal a bit subdued."

In the 5th set, Nadal won 8/17 points on 1st serve and 6/11 points on 2nd serve. that was thanks to federer's great play including returning and the subdued last game.
 
ABCD said:
It is unfair that you did not acknowledge me as an inspiration for this thread. You should have been honest and give a credit when credit is due.
Click to expand...

ABCD said:
Too late. You should said it in the introductory post and not bury it like this. I would suggest that you edit your first post and make it clear who was your inspiration. Also cite me correctly. Say that I said baby Nadal vs Developing Federer. Anyone who understand tennis can see when viewing both matches that this is like comparing junior W final with W final.
Click to expand...

ABCD said:
You have done the right thing. Feel free to add some insulting remarks. I suggest "His (you can say his as I declared myself to be male) astounding ignorance can not remain unchallenged".
Click to expand...


Good Lord !! Are you @Chico ?? !!! :D :D
:D
Are you still waiting for an apology from me for disagreeing about our favorite chocolate bar ?
 
Sentinel said:
Good Lord !! Are you @Chico ?? !!! :D :D
:D
Are you still waiting for an apology from me for disagreeing about our favorite chocolate bar ?
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I am not; check it with TTW. However, many of you do own him an apology. He was right all the time and you ridiculed him. I had so much sympathy for him. I start rooted for Djokovic because of him. That was ugly display of mob-mentality on TTW.
 
ABCD said:
He was right all the time and you ridiculed him
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I ridiculed him because he attacked me. Just check the favourite chocolate bar thread, it is still there.
Your reaction does seem very much like you are him.

"He was right all the time" LOL. If there was a mob mentality here, we would be attacking someone else. I suppose you also approve of 5555's behaviour and think we ganged up on him.
 
Not that it matters, but I would have switched the result of 2007 and 2008 Wimbledon finals, Nadal deserved this one and Federer deserved 2008 IMO.
 
Sentinel said:
I ridiculed him because he attacked me. Just check the favourite chocolate bar thread, it is still there.
Your reaction does seem very much like you are him.

"He was right all the time" LOL. If there was a mob mentality here, we would be attacking someone else. I suppose you also approve of 5555's behaviour and think we ganged up on him.
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Obviously, I did not read the whole opus nor I know details. He was grotesque in many aspects (I'll give you that), but you did gang up on him. It is similar to ganging up on Octobrina from time to time these days. I would never say to Octobrina that Nadal is not the best player ever. There are people that should be comforted instead of ridiculed. Kudos for Chico for recognized quality prior to anyone else.
 
pmh1983 said:
Not that it matters, but I would have switched the result of 2007 and 2008 Wimbledon finals, Nadal deserved this one and Federer deserved 2008 IMO.
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cena_whistling_gif.gif


If anything, Nadal should have won both.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Is there anyone you love more than RAFA besides yourself?
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I don't love Nadal 1/10th as much as yall act like I do, which is precisely why I play it up. I love Jesus, food, RHCP, hairy chests and epicness :D Nadal just happens to fall into that last category, which many other things that make me happy also do.

tumblr_o4inbtZowu1rwlhrfo2_r1_400.gif
 
Nadal_Django said:
Nadal should have won 2008 F in 3 sets, if not for him getting nervous in the 3rd set of that match. Stop with the nonsense.
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I agree with this. If Nadal had lost that match, it would have been one of the biggest chokes in history. Nadal had no business allowing Federer to come within two points to winning the title, it should have been done in straights.
 
MichaelNadal said:
I don't love Nadal 1/10th as much as yall act like I do, which is precisely why I play it up. I love Jesus, food, RHCP, hairy chests and epicness :D Nadal just happens to fall into that last category, which many other things that make me happy also do.
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Sounds plausible. But is there any other tennis player you love 1/10th as much as RAFA? Your praises for him far exceed that for everyone else.
 
Hitman said:
I agree with this. If Nadal had lost that match, it would have been one of the biggest chokes in history. Nadal had no business allowing Federer to come within two points to winning the title, it should have been done in straights.
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based on what ?
Federer choked in the 2nd set ...being broken twice after being up 4-1 with some below par play including lousy approach shots ?

both were choking to an extent in the 3rd set.

Nadal choked in the 4th set TB.

I'd say a 5th set was fair.
 
abmk said:
based on what ?
Federer choked in the 2nd set ...being broken twice after being up 4-1 with some below par play including lousy approach shots ?

both were choking to an extent in the 3rd set.

Nadal choked in the 4th set TB.

I'd say a 5th set was fair.
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Based on Federer's playing in his shell for the first two and half sets. There was no belief, no conviction, no spring in his step for the first half. Even when he broke Nadal, he still lost five games in a row, it meant nothing. Federer mentally did not believe and it was Nadal's job at that point to end it quick. Nadal started to get tight at the end of the third set, when he got close to finish line, Federer sensed it and hung on...Nadal loses the third set and all of a sudden the match started to have a different feel. The match for me did not pick up until the fourth set tie break and the fifth set was great, but Nadal should have finished the job in straights...his choking allowed Federer in and he would massively regret it had he failed to cross the finish line in the end
 
Hitman said:
Based on Federer's playing in his shell for the first two and half sets. There was no belief, no conviction, no spring in his step for the first half. Even when he broke Nadal, he still lost five games in a row, it meant nothing. Federer mentally did not believe and it was Nadal's job at that point to end it quick. Nadal started to get tight at the end of the third set, when he got close to finish line, Federer sensed it and hung on...Nadal loses the third set and all of a sudden the match started to have a different feel. The match for me did not pick up until the fourth set tie break and the fifth set was great, but Nadal should have finished the job in straights...his choking allowed Federer in and he would massively regret it had he failed to cross the finish line in the end
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federer was playing well and onto a good run when he went up 4-1 in the 2nd set. Which is why I said he choked in the 2nd set.

Both Fed/Nadal blew BPs in the 3rd set, not just Nadal.
 
abmk said:
LOL !

lets hear the twisted logic as to how that would be possible .......
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If you were here I'd love to talk over wings, you know im not up for a hypothetical back and forth :p

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Sounds plausible. But is there any other tennis player you love 1/10th as much as RAFA? Your praises for him far exceed that for everyone else.
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Don't you think I wish there were others I liked more? But sure, the ones in my sig. Venus, Delpo, Thiem, I like Tiafoe, Fuscovics, Diego, etc. Nadal really is just epic.

abmk said:
based on what ?
Federer choked in the 2nd set ...being broken twice after being up 4-1 with some below par play including lousy approach shots ?

both were choking to an extent in the 3rd set.

Nadal choked in the 4th set TB.

I'd say a 5th set was fair.
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Lol, you drinking cake vodka too? ;)
 
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