cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Berd and Tsonga are the past. Dimitrov is the probable future. I know you don't want to admit these things but even Uncle Toni stated that Dimitrov and Raonic are the future and are slowly making their way forward.
Wimbledon 2014 R64: Lukas Rosol vs Rafael Nadal [2]
- Thread starter aldeayeah
- Start date
Berd and Tsonga are the past. Dimitrov is the probable future. I know you don't want to admit these things but even Uncle Toni stated that Dimitrov and Raonic are the future and are slowly making their way forward.
Did you actually watch their 2012 match? If it was more than one match, you have an argument. But Rosol was incredible in that match two years ago at Wimbledon. He hit one backhand something like 115 mph. He was going for it on every shot and racking up winner after winner.
I give Rosol a lot of credit. Everyone knows Nadal is vulnerable early at Wimbledon when the grass is slick and he hasn't dialed in his serve. Rosol knew his best chance was to go for winners at every opportunity and not engage in long rallies where Rafa builds his confidence. The strategy almost worked again, but Rosol choked away the second set tiebreak and you could almost see Nadal's confidence surge.
His draw looks suddenly softer with Gasquet and Kohlschreiber falling. With every match, the courts get drier and Nadal feels more and more comfortable. I could see a run to the semis this year for him.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Hey I did! It's in the previous page!
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree. That was more everybody feeling bad for Roddick. Sue Barker even had the idiocy to point it out after that match (the 15 on the jacket).
Then everybody goes on calling Federer arrogant before even realizing that the jacket was custom made for that exact moment.
Everybody cried Roddick a river after that match, but he was never the picture of class either. Personally, I never felt for Roddick at all.
Smasher08
Legend
Actually you've just praised a complete non-sequitur as being "logic".
You both miss the point, and it's about the simple consequences of particular playing styles.
Essentially, as a retriever, Nads' job is to keep returning shot after shot until an opponent makes an error. In that sense, the match really is on the aggressive players' racket because the ultimate outcome depends on their ability to not make errors.
If anything, it's a testament to how high Nads has managed to elevate the retrieval game.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I have nothing against Raonic and Dimitrov being the future but until they've proven it, I won't give them that credit, sorry. They're gonna have to pull that big upset in slams for me to take them seriously. And so far they haven't.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Nishikori/Raonic are now Nadal's biggest competition before the SF.
Bud
Bionic Poster
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Actually, it would be kinda fun if you could have a limited number of those "power-ups" to use on important points xD
I think I'm going to implement that idea in my recreational matches.
Many times. It's my happy place.
What argument? I just pointed out his results. He wasn't really expected to pull off another big victory.
Smasher08
Legend
Yep, and all the more reason that the gamesmanship, delays, coaching, and OTT histrionics are completely unnecessary.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Not talking about objective Nadal fans like you and a few others.
I meant the delusional Nadal fans who lives revolve around their Idol.
Smasher08
Legend
Try telling that to Rosol and his team.
That second set TB was the key to the entire match.
OK, that explains it. Didn't realize you were a fanboy who failed statistics.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
He's not a pure retriever at all, he's more of an aggressive baseliner/point constructor. He hits too many winners/forces too many errors to call him a retriever.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree, they haven't so far and I think they won't yet. I think they are probably about a year away. They are at the stage where they may cause a big upset in a slam or two but I don't think they are ready to win the whole thing yet.
Chico
Banned
It is not about giving the credit. It is recognizing that Djokovic got the worst possible opponents in his draw, while other 3 top players got joke draws. If Tsonga and Berdych can or will beat Djokovic is irrelevant here. The fact is thay will give him much more trouble than somebody else Djokovic could have got in the same round. That is the definition of the difficult draw.
While Nadal will get winner of two WCs in the 4th round. And all that after he played Lajovic of all people in the 4rh on RG.
Simply not fair. Djokovic always gets the most difficult draws. Not to mention other unfair obstacles that are put in front of him, like unfavorable scheduling, or Pascal Maria biased umpiring, ...
I am sure Novak will not be scheduled to play his 4th round match on Centre Court on "Super Monday", despite being #1 seed, while Nadal, Murray and Fed will all be. And if rains Novak's match will be moved to next day, ...
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
We'll have to disagree then. Rosol was the better player up until that point, led their grass h2h 1-0 and had two serves to win the TB (and a forehand that was caught in the tape at 3-5). Given how well he had been serving and how much he was winning behind his first serve (88%) and how well he served it out in the first set and in the fifth two years back, yes, it was very much on his racquet.
What you're saying suggest that even if the score had been 6-1 to Rosol in that TB, the match would still be on Rafa's racquet, because he leads pretty much everyone (safe Rosol until today and that Davydenko guy) in the h2h.
That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
A fanboy of whom? What statistics? I posted Rosol's match results. Keep trying though - your ad hominem has come a little prematurely (ohhh err)
I didn't expect Rosol to win TB honestly.
But, I did expect him to hold serve to take the second. If he had avoided that error filled game, the result might have been quite different.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
Raonic is tougher than Berdych even if he doesn't have the same grass resume. Kyrgios proved today that he's tougher than Gasquet.
At this point in the men's tour, mental toughness matters much more than skill. Especially on grass. Skill almost never causes upsets these days. Mental toughness and luck when a top player isn't playing their best does.
All skill will do is lead to a 4 set loss from a winning position like it did today with Rosol.
FreeBird
Legend
:shock::shock:
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
He does. It was a great escape by Rafa.
About those prior posts - just found it a bit funny how quick you lost faith. However, I must admit the match became a whole lot closer than I expected.
One netcord going Rosol's way in the TB and it's probably bye, bye Rafa.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Chico, even you have to admit that in the RG final he was pretty fair.
Smasher08
Legend
Actually this is par for the course for them.
LazyNinja19
Banned
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
today's match surely shows it was no fluke, no?
he was a point away from being up 2-0 for crying out....
FreeBird
Legend
Nishikori and Wawrinka are the only threats before final. Yes, Wawrinka has been erratic against low ranked players but his record against big guns has been impeccable this year. But you never know, it's grass and Wawrinka sucks here.
objectivity
Banned
suppose Nadal had said, "the match was always in my hands, because I know he could do nothing to hurt me. "
what would you say to that?
Smasher08
Legend
The basis for his playing style is retrieval. I agree he's added to it over the years, but running shots down again and again is still the foundation of his game.
The art of his particular style of retrieval is to send back shots that no-one else can.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
I completely agree. Even though Nadal played a bit better this time, it was terribly close. Hell, who knows what could have happened had he converted that BP in the last game...
Smasher08
Legend
Oh hello, I'm not surprised you're back spoiling for another fight! :lol:
In any event, Nads would never say that because it wouldn't be true.
Ralph
Hall of Fame
Actually, I'm beginning to think that his mental toughness is not as impressive as it seems. Yet again, against a lower ranked opponent (regardless of their history), he started using gamesmanship.
Surely a mentally tough player would not need to do this?
objectivity
Banned
i am not trying to fight you or anyone. this is a genuine question. why can't a defensive player actually be owning the match? i have played superb retrievers and genuinely felt that the matches were entirely in their hands. i could not do anything to win the points because the ball was always coming back.
Nadal uses gamesmanship against every player, even when winning easily. It's nothing new with him. I'm talking about the ability to get serves into play and hit winners on important points.
If you are wondering what I am talking about when I say Nadal cheats every match, it's time wasting between points. There is a clear rule which he breaks and I have never seen him get a point penalty as the umpires are too gutless to do anything beyond issuing a verbal warning.
Smasher08
Legend
Smasher08
Legend
There's also the chronic coaching and injury-faking.
objectivity
Banned
I'm sure you never are.
why can't you answer my question? a defensive player can never actually be in control of the match?
irishnadalfan1983
Hall of Fame
I am not disagreeing with that at all but where do we stop with your logic? Lets say a guy is up 3-0 in the first set against Rafa and is playing fantastic - is the match on their racket then? Lets say I play Rafa and go 1-0 - is the match on my racket.
The match was on Rafa's racket today - hence he won.
The match going with stats is pretty much always on Rafa's racket - i look at stats and the whole match. I don't pick out pieces where a player is playing well and say 'Tis on his racket' - I look at the whole match. You know people will only rememebr results? They won't say Rosol won like 1.5 sets.
As I say it makes more sense to suggest the match is pretty much always on Rafa's racket considering his H2H against 95% of players out there.
Ben42
Semi-Pro
I thought I saw Rosol intentionally knock over one of Nadal's water bottles. Late in the 4th. Kind of hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8lu9w2yPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d8lu9w2yPI
-snake-
Hall of Fame
Oh no! you've discovered the truth about capy!
Smasher08
Legend
Actually you sound like just another <3.0 internet expert. You also ought to re-read what I've written.
What you need to understand is that different playing styles lead to different strengths and weaknesses.
Nads is a retriever who's added to his game, but still essentially a retriever nonetheless.
Ralph
Hall of Fame
In which case my use of the word gamesmanship is wrong. I meant that very matter. In that second set tie break, on one of the last few points of his serve he must have taken around 35 seconds to serve - knowing that this would disrupt his opponent.
I see a never give in attitude, but counter acted by the need to use this cheating tactic.
THIS is one of the reasons I can never admire him, regardless of how many slams/wins he has or hasn't. It is such a shame too, because the guy's talent is incredible, absolutely incredible. What a waste........
Smasher08
Legend
OMG that's awesome! Can anyone gif it??
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Let's agree to disagree, then.
I think when he isn't pulled off balance he's a pretty aggressive baseliner. Of course, today in the return games he wasn't very aggressive.
objectivity
Banned
Yes yes, you are correct.
But can a defensive player be in control of the match? can he?
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