Wimbledon 2018 Novak-Rafa Semifinal: Which was the more impressive saved break point?

[RaulRamirez]

Tennis Channel was just replaying the epic semi between Rafa and Novak - still an amazing match to watch!
I didn't set up a poll, and it may be one-sided, anyway, but...
Which was the more impressive break-point save, both late in the 5th set, of course:

a. Novak's FH passing shot to get to deuce at 7-7, ad-out
b. Rafa's BH dropper to save break point at 7-8, 30-40- which was also match point

Perhaps, there have been other stunning shots to save break/match points in back-to-back games before (or since), but these were remarkable.
I guess I would give a narrow edge to Rafa's for the remarkable touch, for the surprise factor and for doing it while saving a match point.
Still, while Novak nearly replicated the exact passing shot at last year's Wimbledon, it was a perfectly struck, high-pressure shot as well.

If anyone wants to mention/post other great break point or match point saves...but without rubbing it in...please do so.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

The back-to-back passing shot winners in WB 08 4th set tiebreak were way more stunning than either. That's all there is to it.

 

[MeatTornado]

Was that the Nadal drop shot that landed on the line?

 

[RaulRamirez]

Was that the Nadal drop shot that landed on the line?

2018? Yes...I guess it grazed the inside of the line.

 

[RaulRamirez]

The back-to-back passing shot winners in WB 08 4th set tiebreak were way more stunning than either. That's all there is to it.

...been a little while since I've seen that replay. I remember it, in general...

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

...been a little while since I've seen that replay.

Simply more difficult shots given the quality of the incoming ball and the position the player was in. Nadal's pass was top class, Fed's a bit easier technically - he was still out of court though - but to make it on the much-peppered BH side MP down is the shiz. The shots you've lauded are slightly overrated as the players had a perfect opening on either, although of course it takes guts to execute on a huge point.

 

[JaoSousa]

Tennis Channel was just replaying the epic semi between Rafa and Novak - still an amazing match to watch!
I didn't set up a poll, and it may be one-sided, anyway, but...
Which was the more impressive break-point save, both late in the 5th set, of course:

a. Novak's FH passing shot to get to deuce at 7-7, ad-out
b. Rafa's BH dropper to save break point at 7-8, 30-40- which was also match point

Perhaps, there have been other stunning shots to save break/match points in back-to-back games before (or since), but these were remarkable.
I guess I would give a narrow edge to Rafa's for the remarkable touch, for the surprise factor and for doing it while saving a match point.
Still, while Novak nearly replicated the exact passing shot at last year's Wimbledon, it was a perfectly struck, high-pressure shot as well.

If anyone wants to mention/post other great break point or match point saves...but without rubbing it in...please do so.

Both were exceptional shots at such pressure moments in the match, but I think this one has to go to the passing shot from Novak. Such a tense match at the end though.

I do have to say the two passing shots from 2008 were even better though. Nadal's forehand was outrageous, and when rafa hit that forehand to Fed's backhand, I thought it was over, especially considering the few bad errors Fed made in the tiebreak.

 

[Azure]

That backhand took away a few years of my life.

 

[Hitman]

Tennis Channel was just replaying the epic semi between Rafa and Novak - still an amazing match to watch!
I didn't set up a poll, and it may be one-sided, anyway, but...
Which was the more impressive break-point save, both late in the 5th set, of course:

a. Novak's FH passing shot to get to deuce at 7-7, ad-out
b. Rafa's BH dropper to save break point at 7-8, 30-40- which was also match point

Perhaps, there have been other stunning shots to save break/match points in back-to-back games before (or since), but these were remarkable.
I guess I would give a narrow edge to Rafa's for the remarkable touch, for the surprise factor and for doing it while saving a match point.
Still, while Novak nearly replicated the exact passing shot at last year's Wimbledon, it was a perfectly struck, high-pressure shot as well.

If anyone wants to mention/post other great break point or match point saves...but without rubbing it in...please do so.

Both were insane, but I would say Rafa's drop shot on MP edges it.

 

[MichaelNadal]

That drop shot was ballsy af

 

[RaulRamirez]

I just rewatched the 2008 4th set tiebreaker. (A small digression: The very first point was brilliant, by the way.) 2008 had a different dynamic, with it being the 4th set and not the 5th, and tiebreakers are inherently dramatic...but yes, those were insane back-to-back shots...first from Nadal (running FH dtl) to set up match point, and followed by Fed's calmly struck precision backhand DTL - from the doubles alley or just wide of? - to save match point.

 

[NoleFam]

They were equal in genius imo. One of the best drop shots I have ever seen Rafa hit versus Djokovic's trademark short curling cross court forehand.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Both were insane, but I would say Rafa's drop shot on MP edges it.

Agreed...the unexpected, ballsy shot down MP, perfectly executed.

 

[NoleFam]

I have a question: Did 2018 surpass 2008's level of drama and shotmaking?

 

[RaulRamirez]

That backhand took away a few years of my life.

Hopefully, the 5th set restored them...

 

[Hitman]

Agreed...the unexpected, ballsy shot down MP, perfectly executed.

I know Djokovic is often looked as the one who was most clutch when it mattered, but Nadal was pulling out some serious top draw stuff in that match. IMO, overall he was the better player in that match, Djokovic just edge him in the clutchness.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I know Djokovic is often looked as the one who was most clutch when it mattered, but Nadal was pulling out some serious top draw stuff in that match. IMO, overall he was the better player in that match, Djokovic just edge him in the clutchness.

Shame to see you of all people promoting that myth. Djokovic had BPs in more return games than Nadal in every set except the third which didn't feature any BPs. In that tiebreak, Djokovic gave away a free point via DF but still led *5-3, triple set point within grasp and none of that 'Nadal had set points and was the better player' bullcrap would be heard.

 

[Hitman]

Shame to see you of all people promoting that myth. Djokovic had BPs in more return games than Nadal in every set except the third which didn't feature any BPs. In that tiebreak, Djokovic gave away a free point via DF but still led *5-3, triple set point within grasp and none of that 'Nadal had set points and was the better player' bullcrap would be heard.

Giving away free points detracts from you being the better player though. Nadal was better off the ground for most of the match, Djokovic was a better server though.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Giving away free points detracts from you being the better player though. Nadal was better off the ground for most of the match, Djokovic was a better server though.

Another persistent myth. I know you're not the type who sees winning 2 more points in protracted rallies over five sets as a sign of epic superiority, so you must not have been aware of this fact, but now you are. Evenly matched off the ground, Djokovic hit a better 1st serve and 1st serve return, but struggled to handle Nadal's 2nd serve placement while getting his own 2nd serve returned quite strongly. The difference in 1st vs 2nd serve success between the two owed almost entirely to short points, that is, Nadal dominated Djokovic's 2nd serve at times by returning aggressively and scoring quick attacking points, rather than exercising his baseline superiority, which was as I said pretty much non-existent.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Shame to see you of all people promoting that myth. Djokovic had BPs in more return games than Nadal in every set except the third which didn't feature any BPs. In that tiebreak, Djokovic gave away a free point via DF but still led *5-3, triple set point within grasp and none of that 'Nadal had set points and was the better player' bullcrap would be heard.

It's not a myth, Nadal was slaying.

 

[RaulRamirez]

I have a question: Did 2018 surpass 2008's level of drama and shotmaking?

Drama? Probably, discounting that this wasn't the final (kind of was, but still...) and not the expected matchup to determine the title going in. I'm not sure if the damn curfew lessened or heightened the drama. Shotmaking was of a similar caliber - not as explosive, but (not looking at match stats) fewer errors?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It's not a myth, Nadal was slaying.

You'll happily remain blind even to objective match stats - how horrible to see one willingly close his mind.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Drama? Probably, discounting that this wasn't the final (kind of was, but still...) and not the expected matchup to determine the title going in. I'm not sure if the damn curfew lessened or heightened the drama. Shotmaking was of a similar caliber - not as explosive, but (not looking at match stats) fewer errors?

Isner-Anderson must be BOAT then if we're basing impressions on error percentage.

 

[RaulRamirez]

I know Djokovic is often looked as the one who was most clutch when it mattered, but Nadal was pulling out some serious top draw stuff in that match. IMO, overall he was the better player in that match, Djokovic just edge him in the clutchness.

So much to love about this match, other than "somebody had to lose". Similar to RG 13, this was the de facto final, but going in (of course), who foresaw this? Nadal was trying to burst out of a long Wimbledon slump, and nobody knew, for sure, if Novak was back after a close-to-two-year slump.

 

[MichaelNadal]

You'll happily remain blind even to objective match stats - how horrible to see one willingly close his mind.

Lol considering everyone can see this but you, I think we know who's wearing dollar store shades

 

[RaulRamirez]

Isner-Anderson must be BOAT then if we're basing impressions on error percentage.

Dude, lose some of the snark, please!

 

[Hitman]

So much to love about this match, other than "somebody had to lose". Similar to RG 13, this was the de facto final, but going in (of course), who foresaw this? Nadal was trying to burst out of a long Wimbledon slump, and nobody knew, for sure, if Novak was back after a close-to-two-year slump.

Well, something had to give. These are the matches, where sometimes you wish the trophy should be split in two.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Lol considering everyone can see this but you, I think we know who's wearing dollar store shades

Djokovic had BPs in more return games than Nadal in every set except the third which didn't feature any BPs. In that tiebreak, Djokovic led *5-3, triple set point within grasp. These are facts, rest in fanciful fanboydom.

 

[Hitman]

Another persistent myth. I know you're not the type who sees winning 2 more points in protracted rallies over five sets as a sign of epic superiority, so you must not have been aware of this fact, but now you are. Evenly matched off the ground, Djokovic hit a better 1st serve and 1st serve return, but struggled to handle Nadal's 2nd serve placement while getting his own 2nd serve returned quite strongly. The difference in 1st vs 2nd serve success between the two owed almost entirely to short points, that is, Nadal dominated Djokovic's 2nd serve at times by returning aggressively and scoring quick attacking points, rather than exercising his baseline superiority, which was as I said pretty much non-existent.

So, do you feel Djokovic was the better player in that match?

 

[Jonesy]

Nadal drop shot, the Djokovic one is becoming routine in crucial points.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Dude, lose some of the snark, please!

I'll be happy to once all the trolls and dummkpfs are gone. Can't cleanse the well if it keeps being poisoned. Plenty of аsses making the atmosphere here acidic, acerbic and suffocating.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Well, something had to give. These are the matches, where sometimes you wish the trophy should be split in two.

How about one apiece? 20-20-17? (That would be popular here, right? I'll duck for cover.)

 

[MichaelNadal]

I'll be happy to once all the trolls and dummkpfs are gone. Can't cleanse the well if it keeps being poisoned. Plenty of аsses making the atmosphere here acidic, acerbic and suffocating.

Subtitle: "I get slayed way too often"

 

[RaulRamirez]

I'll be happy to once all the trolls and dummkpfs are gone. Can't cleanse the well if it keeps being poisoned. Plenty of аsses making the atmosphere here acidic, acerbic and suffocating.

On this thread, though? I really didn't see what prompted that. I truly respect your tennis knowledge and opinions...

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

So, do you feel Djokovic was the better player in that match?

I don't feel it, I know it based on statistical analysis. Had Nadal won it would've been one of his many clutch steals. Funny how Clutchdal fans like to switch to Chokedal narrative when it comes to the big Fedovic five-setters he lost at AO/WB. The truth is that he was overall the worse player, even if slightly, in each of those four epics, and it was his undying mental strength that saw him reach a winning position against the general pattern of play, but in those matches, Fedovic rose to the challenge and their superior level came through.

 

[Hitman]

How about one apiece? 20-20-17? (That would be popular here, right? I'll duck for cover.)

Haha. Very clever!

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Subtitle: "I get slayed way too often"

I wouldn't be content enjoying myself like you do, you beastly virtual autofellator you.

 

[Hitman]

I don't feel it, I know it based on statistical analysis. Had Nadal won it would've been one of his many clutch steals. Funny how Clutchdal fans like to switch to Chokedal narrative when it comes to the big Fedovic five-setters he lost at AO/WB. The truth is that he was overall the worse player, even if slightly, in each of those four epics, and it was his undying mental strength that saw him reach a winning position against the general pattern of play, but in those matches, Fedovic rose to the challenge and their superior level came through.

I don't think Nadal choked W 2018 at all, Djokovic just edged him out.

Question for you. Do you think Nadal choked that back hand down the line at AO 2012 deep into the fifth set?

 

[NoleFam]

Drama? Probably, discounting that this wasn't the final (kind of was, but still...) and not the expected matchup to determine the title going in. I'm not sure if the damn curfew lessened or heightened the drama. Shotmaking was of a similar caliber - not as explosive, but (not looking at match stats) fewer errors?

I think the tension of the match having to go two days heightened the drama but 2008 trying to beat the dark was kind of dramatic too. Overall, I give the higher drama level to 2018. 2008 had some explosive shotmaking from the ground from Federer but Nadal was more explosive in 2018 imo and had more winners. 13 more in fact. Still, I will give 2008 the nod on shotmaking from the ground. 2018 was cleaner on the error count and I give 2008 the nod on movement. Serving wise, both Federer and Djokoovic served extremely well. Djokovic played a cleaner match than Federer though imo.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

On this thread, though? I really didn't see what prompted that. I truly respect your tennis knowledge and opinions...

MN's arrogant idolisation of the nadal irks me. Or, what irks me most is the absurdly smug laid-back confidence with which he reasserts Rafaello's superiority in all greatest matters. He won't bite you for fun though, unlike say fedfosterwallace. What a tenaciously unkind witticist.

 

[MichaelNadal]

MN's arrogant idolisation of the nadal irks me. Or, what irks me most is the absurdly smug laid-back confidence with which he reasserts Rafaello's superiority in all greatest matters. He won't bite you for fun though, unlike say fedfosterwallace. What a tenaciously unkind witticist.

1. Im not arrogant, I enjoy life and everything about it and it comes through in my posts, you cant stand it
2. Maybe if Nadal got some credit on here SOMETIMES instead of absolutely everything he's done in his entire life being a fluke I wouldn't have to defend him.
3.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I don't think Nadal choked W 2018 at all, Djokovic just edged him out.

Question for you. Do you think Nadal choked that back hand down the line at AO 2012 deep into the fifth set?

And here I thought I was clear. lol. That's exactly what I meant - Nadal was clutch to get into a winning position at all, and his singular mistakes are harped on way too much by those who ignore all the other points and Fedovic generally having the upper hand in them. Rafi fought, but when Fedovic dug in hard as well, he couldn't beat their better tennis. Winning WB 08 & AO 09 (arguably USO 13 too considering the significance of the third set, surely Djokovic is not going away if he takes it) by sheer clutch wasn't enough, his lovers want to claim all close calls as would-be rightfully his. So no, he didn't choke, quite the opposite: clutch but not perfectly so as he's a human bean too, and on those occasions Fedovic responded with their own clutch stuff and took it by force.

 

[RaulRamirez]

MN's arrogant idolisation of the nadal irks me. Or, what irks me most is the absurdly smug laid-back confidence with which he reasserts Rafaello's superiority in all greatest matters. He won't bite you for fun though, unlike say fedfosterwallace. What a tenaciously unkind witticist.

I try not to comment on other posters...so I'm figuratively biting my tongue now.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

1. Im not arrogant, I enjoy life and everything about it and it comes through in my posts, you cant stand it
2. Maybe if Nadal got some credit on here SOMETIMES instead of absolutely everything he's done in his entire life being a fluke I wouldn't have to defend him.
3.

Just stop overrating his peak. What made him a nightmare was game+clutch, while you speak as if it was all superior peak game and if he had clutch then sky would be the limit.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Guys, can we bring it back to tennis?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I try not to comment on other posters...so I'm figuratively biting my tongue now.

Have you ever tried to bite your tongue on purpose to feel what it's like?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Just stop overrating his peak. What made him a nightmare was game+clutch, while you speak as if it was all superior peak game and if he had clutch then sky would be the limit.

I never said all that lol, you saw my username and got a boner. Nadal was in a position to win the match in 4, and he played slightly better tennis imo. That's only a compliment to Djokovic that Rafa still lost. Have a drink

On this thread, though? I really didn't see what prompted that. I truly respect your tennis knowledge and opinions...

My username

 

[Hitman]

And here I thought I was clear. lol. That's exactly what I meant - Nadal was clutch to get into a winning position at all, and his singular mistakes are harped on way too much by those who ignore all the other points and Fedovic generally having the upper hand in them. Rafi fought, but when Fedovic dug in hard as well, he couldn't beat their better tennis. Winning WB 08 & AO 09 (arguably USO 13 too considering the significance of the third set, surely Djokovic is not going away if he takes it) by sheer clutch wasn't enough, his lovers want to claim all close calls as would-be rightfully his. So no, he didn't choke, quite the opposite: clutch but not perfectly so as he's a human bean too, and on those occasions Fedovic responded with their own clutch stuff and took it by force.

I understand the point you are making. It's not always in Nadal's hands as it sometimes gets implied, especially on grass and hard.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Have you ever tried to bite your tongue on purpose to feel what it's like?

Per the literal, I've done it a few times accidentally. The pain was such that I was wise enough to not intentionally recreate it.