Wimbledon: Richard Krajicek 96 vs Novak Djokovic 14 or 15

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Now first of all this thread is not for haters , as for them any past player is automatically better than Nole.
Coming to topic as we all know in 96 summer Richard Peter Stanislav Krajicek stunned everybody, first by defeating Sampras on grass then winning Wimbledon.
Similarly Novak in 2014 went through good draw and won Wimbledon, then this year he defended it by going through good players.
I saw all the three Wimbledon but I want some other knowledgeable posters to debate that who is better on current grass and who has more chance to win.
Looking forward for a good debate, depending on @NatF, @mattosgrant, @pc1, @Phoenix1983 , @KG1965, @bobbyone, [USER=145669]@Laurie, @DanLob [USER=14985]@krosero @TheFifthSet and other good posters.
For me this hypothetical match is on current grass and Krajicek is playing on his peak level.[/USER][/USER]

 

[metsman]

If you are asking if Krajiceck from the 96 Sampras match show up against Novak does he win? I think so if the grass is fast enough, but Novak is obviously the better and more consistent overall wimbledon player

 

[mattosgrant]

Wow this is a tough one. Krajicek was really in the zone at that Wimbledon, serving monstrous, volleying great, returning and moving better than ever. He beat an in form Sampras in straight sets.

Djokovic is an amazing returner, but his passing shots while very good aren't really as great as say Nadal or Hewitt's. He both returns and passes better than Sampras though. He doesn't serve as well as Sampras, but with his ground game Kraicek would have a tough time breaking him. He would have to find his way into the net off Djokovic's serve quite a bit to do so.

I am not sure what would happen. I think Djokovic of 2014 and 2015 maybe wins in 5 sets though.

 

[metsman]

Wow this is a tough one. Krajicek was really in the zone at that Wimbledon, serving monstrous, volleying great, returning and moving better than ever. He beat an in form Sampras in straight sets.

Djokovic is an amazing returner, but his passing shots while very good aren't really as great as say Nadal or Hewitt's. He both returns and passes better than Sampras though. He doesn't serve as well as Sampras, but with his ground game Kraicek would have a tough time breaking him. He would have to find his way into the net off Djokovic's serve quite a bit to do so.

I am not sure what would happen. I think Djokovic of 2014 and 2015 maybe wins in 5 sets though.

Djoker has some trouble returning the big servers. If Cilic and Anderson can take him 5 and be in winning positions on the faster court 1 then I think Krajiceck, who is superior to either, can do it if he plays his best.

 

[abmk]

If you are asking if Krajiceck from the 96 Sampras match show up against Novak does he win? I think so if the grass is fast enough, but Novak is obviously the better and more consistent overall wimbledon player

but djoko lost 3 sets in wim 15
djoko lost 5 sets in wim 14

krajicek only lost 1 set in wim 96 ( beat both stich and sampras in straights )

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

If you are asking if Krajiceck from the 96 Sampras match show up against Novak does he win? I think so if the grass is fast enough, but Novak is obviously the better and more consistent overall wimbledon player

I may be big Nole fan but there is no way Nole was winning on old grass against the Richard which played the 96 Quaterfinal.

 

[metsman]

but djoko lost 3 sets in wim 15
djoko lost 5 sets in wim 14

krajicek only lost 1 set in wim 96 ( beat both stich and sampras in straights )

well krajiceck was unplayable for most of that tournament and in that form he could definitely beat Novak but novak is still the better wimbledon player.

 

[abmk]

on current grass, I'd say krajicek beats djokovic 14 , but vs 15 djokovic, its a tossup ...

 

[metsman]

I may be big Nole fan but there is no way Nole was winning on old grass against the Richard which played the 96 Quaterfinal.

on that grass? definitely Krajiceck would have a very strong chance...he'd have a good chance on grass even as fast as court 1 today where Cilic and Anderson took him deep. On center court slow grass it would be closer to 50/50

 

[metsman]

on current grass, I'd say krajicek beats djokovic 14 , but vs 15 djokovic, its a tossup ...

Well considering what Anderson did on faster grass on court 1...

 

[abmk]

well krajiceck was unplayable for most of that tournament and in that form he could definitely beat Novak but novak is still the better wimbledon player.

yeah, he is. ...but question was about wim 14/15 novak vs wim 96 krajicek, I don't think that comes into the picture that much tbh ..

 

[abmk]

Well considering what Anderson did on faster grass on court 1...

yeah, I was more thinking about the QF and final form djokovic ...giving him that benefit of doubt

if he plays like vs anderson in 4R, he's packing his bags, no doubt ...

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

on current grass, I'd say krajicek beats djokovic 14 , but vs 15 djokovic, its a tossup ...

In my personal opinion 14 was better than 15 one, but only my opinion.

 

[abmk]

In my personal opinion 14 was better 15 one, but only my opinion.

based on what exactly ?

that he went to 5 vs cilic when he had no business of doing so ?
barely escaped going to 5 vs dimitrov ?

even final to final comparision, he finished off fed in 4 in 15, took him 6-4 in the 5th in 14 ...

 

[metsman]

yeah, he is. ...but question was about wim 14/15 novak vs wim 96 krajicek, I don't think that comes into the picture that much tbh ..

just placating the Novak fans

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

based on what exactly ?

that he went to 5 vs cilic when he had no business of doing so ?
barely escaped going to 5 vs dimitrov ?

even final to final comparision, he finished off fed in 4 in 15, took him 6-4 in the 5th in 14 ...

Just my opinion, I think his all opponents peaked at right time, Cilic was playing very good , he had good result that year and ended up winning slam, Dimitirov was also playing very good and Fed unlike this year didn't surrendered but kept on fighting but hey only my opinion and nothing else.

 

[pc1]

Now first of all this thread is not for haters , as for them any past player is automatically better than Nole.
Coming to topic as we all know in 96 summer Richard Peter Stanislav Krajicek stunned everybody, first by defeating Sampras on grass then winning Wimbledon.
Similarly Novak in 2014 went through good draw and won Wimbledon, then this year he defended it by going through good players.
I saw all the three Wimbledon but I want some other knowledgeable posters to debate that who is better on current grass and who has more chance to win.
Looking forward for a good debate, depending on @NatF, @mattosgrant, @pc1, @Phoenix1983 , @KG1965, @bobby one, @Laurie, @Dan Lob @krosero and other good posters.
For me this hypothetical match is on current grass and Krajicek is playing on his peak level.

In rereading the question if Krajicek is playing at PEAK level that's super tough. My originally thought in just glancing at it would be Djokovic but the key word to me is peak level. Krajicek has a bigger serve and a good return. Novak is obviously more consistent with a super return also. Neither one imo will break serve that often. I guess I'll go with Novak in a tough match if both are playing well.

 

[metsman]

based on what exactly ?

that he went to 5 vs cilic when he had no business of doing so ?
barely escaped going to 5 vs dimitrov ?

even final to final comparision, he finished off fed in 4 in 15, took him 6-4 in the 5th in 14 ...

Well Dimitrov played much better than Gasquet and even Gasquet was not far from taking a set. He went 5, and was down 2 sets against Anderson and nearly a break in teh 5th so I don' think you can bring up the Cilic match. In the final, Djokovic was awesome in 2015, probably a little better than 2014 but remember Federer was serving like a maniac in 2014. He was better off the baseline in 2015 but if he had his 2014 serve in the 2015 match things would have been very interesting. The serving kept it close in 2014, and even then Djoker should have finished it in 4. I think Djokovic was better overall in 2015 but it's not cut and dry.

 

[metsman]

yeah, I was more thinking about the QF and final form djokovic ...giving him that benefit of doubt

if he plays like vs anderson in 4R, he's packing his bags, no doubt ...

yeah but a lot of it has to do with the opponent...playing gasquet and federer not serving well gets him into a rhythm, it gets him comfortable so obviously he will look much better. Anderson hitting big and serving bombs doesn't do that and Djokovic is well known to not play nearly as well when facing that type of opponent. Also that match was court 1, which was faster than center, and I think it's more than just a bad day. Two years in a row an opponent serving well takes him 5 on the faster grass on court 1? Not a coincidence imo so I think Krajiceck could do it because his kind of style makes Novak play worse as we have seen many times.

 

[Anaconda]

This thread proves how strong a force Djokovic is.


Firstly, Krajicek that day would have beaten any player at Wimbledon. Period. I'm pretty sure Krajicek of W96 would straight set any version of Djokovic.



However, we are talking Wimbledon; Grass is Djokovic's weakest surface, it's pretty desperate to try and diminish djokovic's career by asking if he could beat a player on grass who was quite possible playing at a higher level than any other player on that particular surface. Even Sampras got body-bagged against Krajicek that day.



Yes, Djokovic would lose to Krajicek of 96. Which player wouldn't? I've always said Krajicek at W96 would beat any player in straight sets. Arguably the highest level of tennis ever, and certainly the highest level of grass court tennis.

 

[mattosgrant]

I may be big Nole fan but there is no way Nole was winning on old grass against the Richard which played the 96 Quaterfinal.

That is true I think.

Krajicek in 4 sets on the old grass
Djokovic in 5 sets on TODAYS grass

I also agree Djokovic of 2014 might have been marginally better tennis wise than 2015. 2015 he was more rock solid mentally though, since 2014 he was still working through the demons of missed slam semis and finals opportunities.

 

[abmk]

Well Dimitrov played much better than Gasquet and even Gasquet was not far from taking a set. He went 5, and was down 2 sets against Anderson and nearly a break in teh 5th so I don' think you can bring up the Cilic match. In the final, Djokovic was awesome in 2015, probably a little better than 2014 but remember Federer was serving like a maniac in 2014. He was better off the baseline in 2015 but if he had his 2014 serve in the 2015 match things would have been very interesting. The serving kept it close in 2014, and even then Djoker should have finished it in 4. I think Djokovic was better overall in 2015 but it's not cut and dry.

Anderson was serving crazy though tbh ...Cilic wasn't ..

( this is for @Navdeep Srivastava as well ) I only saw parts of the 14 match, but it didn't look like Cilic was playing that much better compared to how he played in 15 . ..the stats actually show he played clearly worse in the 14 match ( of course major part of it is due to the last 2 sets which he lost 6-2, 6-2 )

I'm sure djokovic could've upped his level vs gasquet if he had to, whereas vs dimitrov he wasn't playing that well and didn't look like he could raise his level ...dimitrov was playing some good tennis, but not near his level in the QF vs murray before ..

re : 2014 vs 2015 final, that's my point, he should've finished off federer in 4, but couldn't because of nerves and because federer finally started hitting his properly. the 15 final djokoic was more confident.

 

[Indio]

Krajicek of Wimbledon 96 would probably win in my opinion, but any other version would end up the loser. Krajicek, for some reason, was Sampras's nemesis, but overall his record was nothing special. In the majors, he had only two wins against Top 10 players, one of the lowest totals I've seen among well known players. At Wimbledon, he advanced past the 4th round only three times in 11 tries. If Djokovic and Krajicek were to play five times on 95 Wimbledon grass, I'd bet everything I own that Djokovic takes at least four of them.

 

[tennis_pro]

On old grass there is nothing Djokovic would do against the Krajicek serve when he's in this kind of form.

 

[Anaconda]

Krajicek of Wimbledon 96 would probably win in my opinion, but any other version would end up the loser. Krajicek, for some reason, was Sampras's nemesis, but overall his record was nothing special. In the majors, he had only two wins against Top 10 players, one of the lowest totals I've seen among well known players. At Wimbledon, he advanced past the 4th round only three times in 11 tries. If Djokovic and Krajicek were to play five times on 95 Wimbledon grass, I'd bet everything I own that Djokovic takes at least four of them.

For some reason? How about being extremely talented and having monster weapons?!


By the way, Krajicek had to deal with a lot of injury problems throughout his career. He also really hated tennis and made no secret of this.

 

[Anaconda]

On old grass there is nothing Djokovic would do against the Krajicek serve when he's in this kind of form.

Even on this new grass krajicek at W96 would probably beat any player.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

Krajicek was a freak matchup with Sampras. Like davydenko and Nadal. Novak would win but it'd be close. The serve wouldn't be so effective against Novak as it was against Sampras.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

Djoker has some trouble returning the big servers. If Cilic and Anderson can take him 5 and be in winning positions on the faster court 1 then I think Krajiceck, who is superior to either, can do it if he plays his best.

Everyone has troubles against monumental servers, why single out Novak. He's the best perhaps ever dealing with them. Isner, Raonic, especially Cilic have been dominated by him. For every tough 5 setter there are 5 or 6 straight setters. Look at his annihilation of Cilic in New York.

 

[KG1965]

Now first of all this thread is not for haters , as for them any past player is automatically better than Nole.
Coming to topic as we all know in 96 summer Richard Peter Stanislav Krajicek stunned everybody, first by defeating Sampras on grass then winning Wimbledon.
Similarly Novak in 2014 went through good draw and won Wimbledon, then this year he defended it by going through good players.
I saw all the three Wimbledon but I want some other knowledgeable posters to debate that who is better on current grass and who has more chance to win.
Looking forward for a good debate, depending on @NatF, @mattosgrant, @pc1, @Phoenix1983 , @KG1965, @bobbyone, [USER=145669]@Laurie, @DanLob [USER=14985]@krosero @TheFifthSet and other good posters.
For me this hypothetical match is on current grass and Krajicek is playing on his peak level.[/USER][/USER]

The Dutch in that edition was devastating , I do not know if he could beat Djokovic .

Djokovic seems unbeatable but the problem is that you are not comparing like with players like Kraj . There are just so powerful Karlovic and Isner but are too Fouled and unfriendly.

In those days there were Ivanisevic , Stich , Becker , Kraj . All giants .

Missing that type of player .

 

[abmk]

Everyone has troubles against monumental servers, why single out Novak. He's the best perhaps ever dealing with them. Isner, Raonic, especially Cilic have been dominated by him. For every tough 5 setter there are 5 or 6 straight setters. Look at his annihilation of Cilic in New York.

Cilic was injured in New York ...while his serve is fantastic, its not at the level of the elite servers
Djokovic is 1-3 vs Karlovic
is 4-5 vs Roddick

he had his share of troubles with Isner early on (h2h vs 2-3 at one stage )

and he's most certainly not best ever at dealing with the big servers - federer & murray in this own generation are better at it,especially on medium-fast surfaces ....

 

[HoyaPride]

That was the most dominant Wimbledon performance I've ever witnessed. So I'll have to take the Dutchman in this one.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

Cilic was injured in New York ...while his serve is fantastic, its not at the level of the elite servers
Djokovic is 1-3 vs Karlovic
is 4-5 vs Roddick

he had his share of troubles with Isner early on (h2h vs 2-3 at one stage )

and he's most certainly not best ever at dealing with the big servers - federer & murray in this own generation are better at it,especially on medium-fast surfaces ....

2 of his losses to karlovic and all of his losses to roddick came before he became what he is today. Using those is hilariously misguided.

 

[abmk]

2 of his losses to karlovic and all of his losses to roddick came before he became what he is today. Using those is hilariously misguided.

its not that he was a completely newbie at that time. He was #3 in most of those matches vs Roddick (ranked above Roddick ) ...not that means that Roddick would lead the h2h prime to prime, but djokovic surely would not have it easy vs him ..

both the losses to Isner also came in the 11-now period

 

[StannisTheMannis]

its not that he was a completely newbie at that time. He was #3 in most of those matches vs Roddick (ranked above Roddick ) ...not that means that Roddick would lead the h2h prime to prime, but djokovic surely would not have it easy vs him ..

both the losses to Isner also came in the 11-now period

He that have but he has SEVERAL wins over all the big servers that he has played multiple times. Big leads against each. This notion that he is bad against big servers is ludicrous. Murray is 4-3 over raonic and that's only because Raonic got hurt in the Aussie otherwise he'd have been leading the h2h.
Maybe federer has a claim over Novak, but it's still close between them. Prime Roddick would have been put down by 11-current Novak rather easily.

 

[abmk]

He that have but he has SEVERAL wins over all the big servers that he has played multiple times. Big leads against each. This notion that he is bad against big servers is ludicrous. Murray is 4-3 over raonic and that's only because Raonic got hurt in the Aussie otherwise he'd have been leading the h2h.
Maybe federer has a claim over Novak, but it's still close between them. Prime Roddick would have been put down by 11-current Novak rather easily.

Murray is unbeaten vs both isner ( 5-0 ) and karlovic ( 6-0 )
Murray is also 8-3 vs Roddick , with all those matches happening before he even become a slam winner and was 4-2 even before 2008 ( when he reached top 10 ) ... obvious he read/returned Roddick's serve better than djokovic did ...

Raonic is the only big server who's had clear success vs Murray and hasn't vs Djokovic so far ..

djokovic isn't bad against big servers . He is good vs them , but not the top in this generation, let alone all time in that regard ......Just that on some occasions he can be unnerved by them. On other occasions, he returns really well vs them ..

 

[Djorau]

Of course Djokovic. Cilic/Raonic are a modern day Krajicek and Nole whopped their butts.

 

[abmk]

Of course Djokovic. Cilic/Raonic are a modern day Krajicek and Nole whopped their butts.

pathetic joke. only someone crazy like you could compare Krajick to Cilic/Raonic.
Krajicek could volley much better than Raonic and was returning light years better in Wim 96 than Raonic ever has. Krajicek's serve was more unplayable for the top guys when in the zone than Raonic's IMO.
and of course Krajicek's serve was considerably better/unplayable than Cilic's and volleying was considerably better.

Krajicek beat prime Sampras and Stich in straight sets. To compare that version of Krajicek to Cilic/Raonic is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

The only threat for peak Djokovic is a zoning big server in the earlier rounds on the worthless, one tournament in the world, grass.

So Krajicek could have a chance.

 

[JoelSandwich]

Krajicek

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

The only threat for peak Djokovic is a zoning big server in the earlier rounds on the worthless, one tournament in the world, grass.

So Krajicek could have a chance.

That worthless tournament is Djokovic's second best slam.

 

[Red Rick]

On current grass, Djokovic destroys Krajicek.

 

[RF-18]

Sure he could push him in like a 3rd or 4th Round like Anderson did but if it's late in the tournament where Djoko has found his form I see krajicek taking maybe 1 set.

 

[Thomas195]

Sure he could push him in like a 3rd or 4th Round like Anderson did but if it's late in the tournament where Djoko has found his form I see krajicek taking maybe 1 set.

On what grass? On old grass we would not even see Djokovic in late tournament.

 

[RF-18]

On what grass? On old grass we would not even see Djokovic in late tournament.

First, to make such comparison you need to Assume Djokovic trains and has time to adapt to the conditions. You can't just take him and put him there just out of the blue without any chance of training and adaption against players who grew up on the conditions. In no way are such comparisons fair.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

On what grass? On old grass we would not even see Djokovic in late tournament.

That applies to every modern player.

Anyway modern players are better, so I think they would've adapted.

 

[vex]

If you are asking if Krajiceck from the 96 Sampras match show up against Novak does he win? I think so if the grass is fast enough, but Novak is obviously the better and more consistent overall wimbledon player

^ Pretty much this. Depends on the grass speed. Slower leans Djoker. Faster not as much.

 

[vex]

On what grass? On old grass we would not even see Djokovic in late tournament.

He'd be fine, he'd have adapted. Dude used to be obsessed with tennis. He'd have trained and adapted to any conditions. Can't take away that hand eye coordination that is his real talent. I forgot which pro said it, might have been Rafa, but basically he noted Djoker's true special talent is that he always manages to get the middle of his racket on even the most challenging serves. Time after Time after Time.

 

[mike danny]

He'd be fine, he'd have adapted. Dude used to be obsessed with tennis. He'd have trained and adapted to any conditions. Can't take away that hand eye coordination that is his real talent. I forgot which pro said it, might have been Rafa, but basically he noted Djoker's true special talent is that he always manages to get the middle of his racket on even the most challenging serves. Time after Time after Time.

Djokovic doesn'tvreally return big serves that well.

He is a GOAT second serve returner though.

It's easier to get a handle on Rafa's serve than on Kyrgios' or Karlovic's.

 

[Steve0904]

Pretty simple IMO. Depends on the type of grass. If '96 grass then Krajicek wins. If not, Novak wins.

 

[mike danny]

Krajicek wins on fast grass IMO. Anderson almost took Novak out.