Winning record against all current TOP 10
- Thread starter Indigo
- Start date
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal leads the H2H over Djokovic 9-5 in Grand Slams (including 2-1 at the US Open). Grand Slams tournaments are considered more relevant than other tournaments. Analogously, H2H in Grand Slams should be considered more relevant than H2H outside Grand Slams. Otherwise, we would be displaying a double standard logic. Grand Slam achievements >>> achievements outside Grand Slams.
astronautzor
Rookie
Well thats SUPERFANTASTIC information there, and would be superuseful if the topic was about "Who is better when facing each other in Grand slams"
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Compromise: Nadal is king at Slams, Djokovic is king outside of them.
Fair enough?
jimjam
Professional
Careful there, you bring up Federer in a statistic that brings about a negative light on his Holy Career...
If you're struggling to see the difference between your thread and this one, I'll give you a hint...
... This one is praising a player's accomplishments
D
Deleted member 757377
Guest
Why US Open only?
You should write ''including 3-4 outside clay''
Few matches, by the way.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Irrelevant. Do you see any GS h2h presented by the ATP?
I don't think so.
Djokovic goat.
astronautzor
Rookie
How can a statistic of 14 matches be a better indicator of lets say 50+ matches?
For gods sake, 7+ of their 14 GS matches where played in RG, and 3+ of their GS matches where played before Novak even won his first grand slam..
So this is only relevant to 1 thing, Nadal >Djokovic in RG.. while a total H2H gives us a more complete picture.
D
Deleted member 763024
Guest
Djokovic now is like the Federer of 04-06.
They raised the bar with their style of game and the competition had to search for answers for a long time to start overcoming it.
The astonishing fact of Novak's game is that with the way he's serving and backing it up now, he's close to unbeatable given his already superlative defense and baseline game (helps that he has almost 2 forehands in place of a forehand and backhand!)
It will happen though. Just like Nadal and Djokovic (and Murray and JMDP etc) came along and broke the spell, it will happen with Novak too.
Right now, savor it Nole fans. He's looking imperious atm.
They raised the bar with their style of game and the competition had to search for answers for a long time to start overcoming it.
The astonishing fact of Novak's game is that with the way he's serving and backing it up now, he's close to unbeatable given his already superlative defense and baseline game (helps that he has almost 2 forehands in place of a forehand and backhand!)
It will happen though. Just like Nadal and Djokovic (and Murray and JMDP etc) came along and broke the spell, it will happen with Novak too.
Right now, savor it Nole fans. He's looking imperious atm.
vladap
Professional
(including 1-3 at Wimbledon and Australian Open)
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
The problem with above is that Nadal rarely plays in a slams final in the last couple of years outside the French Open. Vulture year 2017 is exception.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Good question. But according to that logic, how can a statistic of 14 Grand Slam titles be a better indicator of lets say 100+ titles?
If we follow your logic, Sampras and Djokovic (14 GS) would be worse than Connors with 8 Grand Slams. Why? Because Connors has 109 titles and Sampras and Djokovic only 64 and 72, respectively.
It's not all about sample size. Quality also matters. If Grand Slam titles are considered more relevant than other titles, then H2H in Grand Slams should be considered more relevant than H2H outside Grand Slams. Otherwise, we would be displaying a double standard logic. Grand Slam achievements >>>> achievements outside Grand Slams.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
The expression "vulture" is not used by objective tennis analysts. I can apply the same derogative term to the US Open 2018 draw, where Djokovic only had to face Del Potro (no significant difference with the USO 2017 where Nadal faced Del Potro and Anderson, who has more GS finals than Nishikori). I can also apply it to Djokovic wining RG 2016 without facing an in form Nadal, since Nadal had to withdrawn injured.The problem with above is that Nadal rarely plays in a slams final in the last couple of years outside the French Open. Vulture year 2017 is exception.
D
Deleted member 757377
Guest
Nadal had it different times.
astronautzor
Rookie
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Under "vulture" I meant Nadal and Federer needed that Djokovic was out of the action for a year to win the slams. I have no problem that they all won the slams against weaker competition in slam finals.
Obviously, Novak is much better than Rafa on 2/3 surfaces, he is Federer's heir in true sense starting from the Australian Open up to World Tour Finals.
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He is praising djokovic here unlike u who made that thread just to insult roger.u hate for roger is bigger than ur love to Novak.Careful there, you bring up Federer in a statistic that brings about a negative light on his Holy Career...
astronautzor
Rookie
How is a thread about stats more "insulting" than a subjective thread about "Thiem just not talented" <-- THATS insulting
Yet 1 got deleted, and the other thriving.
Report button& Amount of Federer fans here.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Sampras is also better than Rafa on 2/3 surfaces, yet he is considered worse than Nadal overall since he has less Grand Slams.
Also, by your logic, Djokovic was a "vulture" for winning Grand Slams in 2015-2016 when Nadal was out of the action and in very bad shape. See? I can apply those unobjective arguments to Djokovic as well.
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astronautzor
Rookie
Stop it, answer my question.. is Brown and Pouille better than Nadal? Because they have a leading H2H in GS.
Their H2H in GS, Djokovic leads outside of RG.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
No, Rafa has eleven majors on clay. That is 2/3 of his slams. Sampras never won Roland Garros, he was never in the Goat conversation. Novak is the only one in history holding all four mayors on three different surfaces, he has Golden Masters and five WTF. Djokovic in 2011 showed who had the greatest level in history of tennis, 10-1 vs. Federer and Nadal.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Was Roddick greater than Djokovic? He leads the H2H overall over Novak.
astronautzor
Rookie
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal hold 3 Majors on 3 different surfaces in 2010, the only difference is that Djokovic achieved one more when Nadal was injured (RG 2016). Also, Budge won 6 consecutive Grand Slams which is more meritory than 4 consecutive GS. Laver also hold the 4 Majors twice (which is more meritory than doing it only once like Djokovic).
If Sampras is generally not considered greater than Nadal despite being better on 2/3 surfaces, the same logic should be applied to Djokovic, since he also has less Grand Slams than Nadal. Otherwise, you would be applying a double standard logic.
The "greatest level in the history of tennis" is impossible to measure. I can freely say that Nadal in 2013 had the highest level of tennis ever, and it would be equally speculative as calling Djokovic in 2011 the highest level ever.
Also, Nadal has the Olympic Gold in singles, the Masters 1000 record and the GS more evenly distributed by surface than Djokovic. So it's not like Nadal only leads Djokovic in Grand Slams.
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astronautzor
Rookie
Get the hell out of here, Djokovic beat Nadal 7 times in a row..twice!
50%+ of their H2H in Grand Slams are in RG...
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
The same Roddick who physically attacked Novak when he lost the match and didn't get any suspension because of USTA covered it up.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Not in Grand Slams. Nadal beat Djokovic 4 times in a row in Grand Slams. Djokovic has never beated Nadal 4 times in a row in Grand Slams.
50% of their matches, not over 50% (7 is half of 14). Clay is a tennis surface, so not a valid excuse if they played on clay.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
About the slams I agree, Novak needs to win at least three more to be considered greater than Nadal. Masters record was held by Djokovic until he got hurt and lost 18 months of his career to properly address the issue. Olympics gold is below WTF. At the WTF you need to beat the other seven best players of that year. There is a good reason why Rafa never won WTF.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Wake me up when we see someone other than Federer win 20 Slams. Until that happens keep barking, doggies.
Enceladus
Legend
Gluten-free Ultron has bilance 5:5 against Rafa at GS tournaments.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Rafa will reach 20 in 2020 and Novak in 2021. You heard it first here.
astronautzor
Rookie
Excuse for what? There is no excuse for Nadal having 27 friggin losses to Novak hahaha, and losing 7 times in a row, TWICE!
Pheasant
Legend
Those are great points. And in the end, nobody will give a rip about the lame excuses that are created. The bottom line is that you have to beat the field. Either somebody breaks the slam record; or he doesn't. If Nadal wins 4 more slam titles(even if all 4 are at RG) to end up ahead of everybody by a score of 21-20-19, then I will be the first one to congratulate him. I couldn't care less about distribution of slam titles anyway. Regardless of distribution, 21>20>19.
Each player has his advantages. Nadal is the biggest beast of the three, once he gets going. His downfall is that he is far more susceptible to losing in early rounds than Fed or Djoker ever were. So Djoker and Federer were more consistent. But Nadal hits insane peak levels, once he reaches the quarters. I made a post touting Nadal's insane record after he reaches the quarters of slams. It is mind-boggling. But in the end, I care most about the guy that raises the trophy. Peak Nadal reaching the quarters was the scariest thing that I ever saw. Fed's consistency of 36 straight slam quarters and 23 straight slam semis, or 26 wins vs top 10 players was unreal. Djoker's incredible dominance lately has raised my eyebrows too. His ability to improve at an older age is incredible. That deserves its own merit.
If somebody wants to predict that Djoker will have the most slam titles in the end, then I'm fine with that. I personally think that Djoker will have the best decline of the three, due to his greyhound build. He's quite a bit lighter than Nadal and Fed, which places far less pressure on the knees and back.
I now recognize that my favorite player might end up 3rd in the slam count and considered 3rd best of his era when they all retire. That's fine. I cannot complain about 20 slam titles, even if 2 warriors eclipse him. And trashing those other two warriors is nothing but immature and petty anyway.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Bad doggy!What an arrogant ****** bag, noone is talking about GOAT or GRAND SLAMS.. the thread is about H2H that DJokovic has vs the current top 10 players..
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal has already reached his final Slam number and Djokovic will do well to match him.Rafa will reach 20 in 2020 and Novak in 2021. You heard it first here.
And no, you're not the first and you won't be the last. However, you will be one of many to be ultimately proven wrong.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Enceladus
Legend
Anderson now has 2 GS finals, but then, during USO 2017, none. According to paper assumptions Nishikori at USO 2018 heavier rival than Anderson at USO 2017.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Obviously the poster created this thread because now having broken a tie with Zverev, Djokovic holds a H2H lead over the current top ten, and top tens do change so it may not be the biggest record but it's cool nonetheless.
So why the need to bring up Nadal and how he leads at slams? We know that, cool, but why do fans constantly have to tear down other players to bolster their own guy? You see it with Fed fans and this is no better. When Nadal achieves a new record, by all means post about it but why the need to try and trump some stat that Djokovic has? It's very insecure especially when your own guy has a tonn of his own records.
Also you I like how you contradict yourself, because you talk about double standard logic but you then go on top quote for Nadal's H2H with Federer, "slams outside of clay" but the with Djokovic you changed it to just US Open because that favours Nadal. Where as if you used the outside clay angle in both cases it would be 4-3 to Djokovic and at the AO it's 1-0 to Djokovic and at Wimbledon it's 2-1. Surely you see how you just applied double standard logic to favour Nadal? As a poster you are often fair, I will give you that, but there's these cases where you uses double standards and will not even realise this and stop doing it, instead you use the exact same debunked arguments time and time again.
Btw, although I will say that down to Nadal's dominance of clay, he would probably always lead the slam H2H with an equal amount of meetings across surfaces, you can in no way claim that Nadal and Djokovic meeting 7 times at Nadal's favourite slam compared to just once at Djokovic's is in any way a fair representation of slam H2H. It;s massively tilted in Nadal's favour. Despite this Djokovic having a 5-9 H2H is pretty decent I think, and he has the honour of defeating Nadal at every slam, which Nadal cannot claim. He's also defeated Federer at every slam too so the guy deserves some credit for this.
Sputnik Bulgorov
Hall of Fame
Nadal's massive slam h2h leads are built on how often he can meet his rivals on clay. Clay is only 25% of Slam surfaces, yet it comprises 50% of Djokodal's slam meetings, clearly favoring Nadal. 7 meetings at RG compared to only 1 meeting at AO sums it up nicely.
Despite Nadal's massive slam h2h leads, he's actually 2-13 in his last 15 matches vs Djokovic and Federer, including 0-3 in slams.
SuperSpinner
Semi-Pro
Let's see if you can avoid double standards. If it's not all about sample size, then what's Nadal's slam H2H against Dustin Brown? Oh let me guess the sample size cut off is arbitrarily 10?
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
What about MurrayGOAT?
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
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Deleted member 716271
Guest
I'm at gym now getting early morning pump on (its 620 am) so I can be as buff as Murray.
Compare Murrays physique to that hairy bum Sampras and tell me he wouldnt wreck him in 4 sets at best on grass.
ROFLMAO
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