With Big 3 hurting, Tsitsipas sees 'change of thrones' in men's tennis

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
o_O

Most? Half of them can't even play on clay. It's only like Ruud, Musetti, Gaston, Alczraz and Tsitsipas. Medvedev and Zverev are both much better on hardcourts, and Umbert, Hurkacz and Auger-Aliassime played better on grass courts this year. All the American players prefer hard courts.

So how is it clay skewed?
Who doesn't play on clay? Half of them don't know how to attack.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
It’s also the first time in history we had possibly 3 of the greatest all playing at once, and playing at a very high levels well into ages 30 and beyond.

Easier to push out an unmotivated Sampras than it is a 34 year old Djokovic/Nadal still earning 9-12k points a season.
Sure because the next gen only loses to big three and is undefeated versus the rest of the field...these guys can't even go deep consistently in Masters events let alone slams or stay fit or stay motivated etc. :rolleyes:
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
Sure because the next gen only loses to big three and is undefeated versus the rest of the field...these guys can't even go deep consistently in Masters events let alone slams or stay fit or stay motivated etc. :rolleyes:
Eh that's not really fair is it?

Tsitsipas made SFs of FO 2020, AO 2021, final of FO 2021 in a row. Medvedev has made 2 Fs and 1 SF at the last 4 HC majors. Zverev was FO SFist and USO Finalist.

These guys are pretty consistent especially in Slams. I think the one place they unquestionably suck is on grass. But on clay and HC, the top 3 of Zed/Med/Tsits are very consistent. They consistently beat the field then lose to Djokovic ;)
 
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Yes while the new generation still have a grand total of 0 slams, unless you count Theim part of the next generation (I don't). Let your racquet speak more boys, not your mouthes.
 

onyxrose81

Hall of Fame
Saw that in olympics...his behaviour was really like a Next Gen amateur.

Going empty handed in a depleted olympic field is a Next Gen thing and i agree with that.
I don’t have any comment about his behavior as even as a fan I didn’t like it but this fallacy about it being a depleted field has to stop. No one who was missing the Olympics was ever a threat to Novak...that includes Fed and Nadal who hasn’t taken a set off Djokovic since 2013. Novak’s threats were all in Tokyo: Winner Zverev, Med, Stef and apparently PCB now for some reason. They all have multiple wins in Bo3. Its only called a depleted field because Fedal skipped and they weren’t threats at all currently.
 
I agree at this point in time Fed missing any event is not a depleted field. We saw at Wimbledon he isn't even a threat on grass at this point, LOL! No shame in that when he is a 40 year old, it is amazing he held strong as long as he did, but reality is we are past the point of Federer missing from anything being meaningful other than for purely nostalgic reasons.

Nadal is more debateable, but when has he been a threat on anything non clay since the 2019 U.S Open now.
 

renarulz

New User
It’s also the first time in history we had possibly 3 of the greatest all playing at once, and playing at a very high levels well into ages 30 and beyond.

Easier to push out an unmotivated Sampras than it is a 34 year old Djokovic/Nadal still earning 9-12k points a season.
Or did these next geners just make them look like like they were playing at a high level well into their 30's? Afterall you only have to play well enough to beat your opponent that day.
 

Patogen

Rookie
Lately watching the big 3 has been stressful. Is he injured, how are his knees? Is there enough gas in the tank? It takes away any enjoyment of watching the match. I'd say it's worse than when they were all a lock to get far into tournaments and it was almost a guarantee that one of them would win.

Now I can sit back and watch some excellent matches with none of that drama (of course Djok is still in there).
Exactly. They're not the only ones annoyed by their injuries. Fed slips. Surely the knees! Novak has the painful grimace playing bh. Must be the shoulder! Rafa... well, it can be any part of Rafa any moment.
 

BGod

Legend
It's no wonder really, that's the exact conditions they need. We all know at this point that the changing of the guard will be due to natural effects only and have nothing to do with the new generation stepping up. And for what it's worth, Tsitsipas is right since we seem to be getting closer and closer to that
I will never forget 2014, all the commentary on the changing of the guard.

Raonic, Dimitrov, Cilic, Nishikori, Kyrgios, all multi-slam champs waiting in the swings. L.M.A.O

It will absolutely be the first time a transition occurs without quality changing of the guard victories by younger contenders. Fed got booted by Novak and time, oh and Dimitrov but I guess there is that one Tsitsipas loss in 2019 AO, wooohooo. Nadal lost to Novak, Delpo, Thiem and Tsitsipas. Oh.....so I guess Tsitsipas juuuuuuuust makes the cut beating a 37 year old Fed and 34 year old Rafa. Jesus this is like Fed beating 34 and 35 year old Agassi at the USO.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Sure because the next gen only loses to big three and is undefeated versus the rest of the field...these guys can't even go deep consistently in Masters events let alone slams or stay fit or stay motivated etc. :rolleyes:
But it is known that the tour has more depth, is more professional and athletic than ever. Harder to be as consistent, which makes what the big 3 have done even more remarkable o_O
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Or did these next geners just make them look like like they were playing at a high level well into their 30's? Afterall you only have to play well enough to beat your opponent that day.
Possibly. However Federer and Djokovic are on record saying they are better players in their 30s.
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
I will never forget 2014, all the commentary on the changing of the guard.

Raonic, Dimitrov, Cilic, Nishikori, Kyrgios, all multi-slam champs waiting in the swings. L.M.A.O

It will absolutely be the first time a transition occurs without quality changing of the guard victories by younger contenders. Fed got booted by Novak and time, oh and Dimitrov but I guess there is that one Tsitsipas loss in 2019 AO, wooohooo. Nadal lost to Novak, Delpo, Thiem and Tsitsipas. Oh.....so I guess Tsitsipas juuuuuuuust makes the cut beating a 37 year old Fed and 34 year old Rafa. Jesus this is like Fed beating 34 and 35 year old Agassi at the USO.
I might have agreed with you in 2020, certainly in 2019, but 7 years later and Fedal are looking in very bad shape, potentially too old to recover. Djokovic is still imperiously at the top, I'll definitely concede that point.
 

JadeC

Hall of Fame
I don’t have any comment about his behavior as even as a fan I didn’t like it but this fallacy about it being a depleted field has to stop. No one who was missing the Olympics was ever a threat to Novak...that includes Fed and Nadal who hasn’t taken a set off Djokovic since 2013. Novak’s threats were all in Tokyo: Winner Zverev, Med, Stef and apparently PCB now for some reason. They all have multiple wins in Bo3. Its only called a depleted field because Fedal skipped and they weren’t threats at all currently.
If Zverev, Medvedev, and Tsitsipas are considered a depleted field in a BO3, then who are the threats? Shapo? Berrettini? Lol.

PCB brings out the worst in Novak. Watch them draw each other again at the USO. :censored:
 
Had to wait for the Big 3 to roll away on a wheelchair at damn near 40 to take over? I can only imagine once DJoker retires how many viewers the game loses. These past 1-2 generations of players are the first to not knock their predecessors out of the game but walk away into the sunset on their own. Sorry TsiTsi but thats not "stepping up". Thats just waiting for people to get old. LOL.

Age/Mileage wise the Big 3 should have been kicked to the curb by the last gen of guys (Dimitrov, Raonic, etc)
 

T007

Professional
I don’t have any comment about his behavior as even as a fan I didn’t like it but this fallacy about it being a depleted field has to stop. No one who was missing the Olympics was ever a threat to Novak...that includes Fed and Nadal who hasn’t taken a set off Djokovic since 2013. Novak’s threats were all in Tokyo: Winner Zverev, Med, Stef and apparently PCB now for some reason. They all have multiple wins in Bo3. Its only called a depleted field because Fedal skipped and they weren’t threats at all currently.
No one was a threat :laughing: :laughing: infact that over confidence led to 2 losses in a row.
 

Patogen

Rookie
However Federer and Djokovic are on record saying they are better players in their 30s.
They are wrong. Or rather, in denial of the effect aging has had on them. And if you ever talk to a pro tennis coach, they will tell you that one thing players are very bad at is assessing themselves/the reasons they won/lost this and that match.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
They are wrong. Or rather, in denial of the effect aging has had on them. And if you ever talk to a pro tennis coach, they will tell you that one thing players are very bad at is assessing themselves/the reasons they won/lost this and that match.
various experts and commentators have also made similar statements
 

Patogen

Rookie
various experts and commentators have also made similar statements
Who, where?

It's nonsense.

Stamina, power, explosiveness, reaction times, recovery times, speed -- quite literally everything that matters in sports (except endurance/strength -- to an extent) starts getting worse in early/mid twenties. Experience can help suppress the inevitable deterioration stemming from aging in the late twenties, but only players who didn't work hard enough to fulfill their peak potential in their twenties can be better in early thirties or mid thirties than they were at their (potential) physical peak, and that's far from the case with Big 3.

By the time you hit the mid thirties, your reflexes have already noticeably dulled out compared with your peak. That in itself is a huge detriment for a tennis pro.

I'm sorry, but I have watched Federer play in 2005 and 2006. People suggesting he was better in 2009 are out to lunch, let alone 2017.
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Who, where?

It's nonsense.

Stamina, power, explosiveness, reaction times, recovery times, speed -- quite literally everything that matters in sports (except endurance/strength -- to an extent) starts getting worse in early/mid twenties. Experience can help suppress the inevitable deterioration stemming from aging in the late twenties, but only players who didn't work hard enough to fulfill their peak potential in their twenties can be better in early thirties or mid thirties than they were at their (potential) physical peak, and that's far from the case with Big 3.

By the time you hit the mid thirties, your reflexes have already noticeably dulled out compared with your peak. That in itself is a huge detriment for a tennis pro.

I'm sorry, but I have watched Federer play in 2005 and 2006. People suggesting he was better in 2009 are out to lunch, let alone 2017.
"In fact, he continues to evolve; every match, every opponent, teaches him something," Gillbert added. "At 34, he is stronger than at 24!”

Brad Gilbert - respected former pro and tennis analyst
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Eventually, opponents teach you to lose, which makes you stronger mentally. And none of that equals being a better player than you were at your peak.

Sorry, but no.
Maybe not but they still played at very high level over 30… Fed until he was 37. Djokovic still at 34. Nadal looks like the wheels have fallen off at 35.

Not easy to break through against these GOATs. I think 30s big 3 will still beat Roddick, Hewitt, Nalbandian more often than not same as nextgen.
 

Patogen

Rookie
Maybe not but they still played at very high level over 30… Fed until he was 37. Djokovic still at 34. Nadal looks like the wheels have fallen off at 35.

Not easy to break through against these GOATs. I think 30s big 3 will still beat Roddick, Hewitt, Nalbandian more often than not same as nextgen.
Of course, and I wouldn't dispute that. Djoker maybe played some of his best tennis ever in the SF and F matches at AO 19, Fed had an insane W in 2017, but as far as fitness and overall dominance go, they already had their best behind them. They still learn and evolve as the game does, but tennis is very, very physical. Nadal stands out in terms of being the most worn-out, but that shouldn't fool us into believing Novak or Roger aren't.

I also think that in theory and as far as physical disposition goes, nextgen should be better than the crippled versions of Nalba, Hewitt, Safin. I mean, these guys are all like 6.4-6.5, they strike the ball like a mule kick, and unlike most of their predecessors with the same/similar build, they're fine movers, but they struggle with the mental aspect. Despite that, especially toward the end of the season, they seem more and more able to win on their physical edge alone, and if not this year, they will start winning it all soon enough. I know people have been saying this for 5 years now, but this time it's coming, and it's coming on fast.
 

Aabye5

Hall of Fame
I disagree. He played well this RG until he was outclased by citypass under glacially slow night conditions.
Clay is supposed to be slow. I think he did well because it was hotter than normal (he even admitted it was playing more like a hard court) which sped up conditions. The poster I was responding to was saying none of the young guns can play on anything other than clay, which I still say is true of Medvedev, in the grand scheme of things.
 

BGod

Legend
I might have agreed with you in 2020, certainly in 2019, but 7 years later and Fedal are looking in very bad shape, potentially too old to recover. Djokovic is still imperiously at the top, I'll definitely concede that point.
What exactly are you arguing then? That we are in a transitional stage now or that the Big 3 have already gone away save for Novak?

I was simply saying how quickly commentators jumped the gun issuing notice back in 2014 and it will materialize in 2022 at the earliest and without any actual transition of victories.
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
Lately watching the big 3 has been stressful. Is he injured, how are his knees? Is there enough gas in the tank?
You basically described me watching Rafa. Mother mode on. I saw the RG semi-final and final live this year where I went to watch Rafa win his 21. Oh irony.
I was so thirsty due to heat that I risked not watching the award ceremony because the final might have been over by the time I was back. But somehow I knew. And then deal was sealed. I don't know how mentally Tsisipas and others would handle the big moments because they choke. Also I'm not writing Novak off because if there's one thing we all learned.. He's mortal after Tokyo but even in his not top form he turned the game around at the slam. Calendar slam is on the table and the next gen is weak mentally.
 
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