"Women ride on the coattails of the men." - Indian Wells Tournament Direcetor

heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
''In my next life when I come back I want to be someone in the WTA because they ride on the coattails of the men. They don't make any decisions and they are lucky. They are very, very lucky,'' he said. ''If I was a lady player, I'd go down every night on my knees and thank God that Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal were born, because they have carried this sport.'' - Raymond Moore
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016...-open-criticizes-wta-tour/57931/#.Vu_EhfkrJhG

I've always thought this about Men's Doubles, however, these days I only enjoy women's when Giorgi is playing and sometimes I'll watch Kvitova.
 
I think this a perfect example we can all learn from. One person says something that upsets many people and even more preconceived notions held about a topic. The person is immediately slammed and demonized and there are calls for apologies and resignations.

Are you still with me? We only learn by an honest examination of a statement and a logical refutation based on facts. However sometimes when we actually do collect the facts we might discover that the problem is not the original statement but the preconceived notions.

If Mr. Moore misspoke than show him the riveting story lines in women's tennis that run counter to his opinion of the WTA. Show him the objective ticket sales, merchandising and ratings numbers that challenge his claims.

If he was wrong he can politely be reconciled and likewise if one's preconceived notions are discovered to be wrong, an honest mind will seek reconciliation and cease and desist the group think.

I do not have those numbers so I am not aware of the actual situation of men's versus women's tennis. Serena's example of the US open women's final selling out first last year had nothing to do whatsoever with the WTA, it was all Serena and the amazing feat she almost accomplished. I remember bringing my tv to work in 1988 to see Graf win hers.

She also mentioned BJK which isn't pertinent to the way the WTA is currently running. If BJK is in the midst of things then highlight her specific current managerial results.
 
Agree with the above.

Honestly, men, women, junior or handicapped, it is unimportant. Capacity to sell tickets and TV contracts is. The ones selling more should be paid more.

In my country, espn only shows very little women tennis. Only Slams, a final here and there. Can you mention WTA events that are not shared with men tennis ? Can you see the WTA end of year Masters? Not even casted where I live. This means TV rights are not selling really. So why pay the same again ?
 
So how come every time I turn on Tennis Channel or ESPN they're always showing a women's match? ESPN would rather show Venus playing a Ukrainian teenager than show something really good like Kohlschrieber/Thiem. I don't know why that is, but the casual fan doesn't know Thiem or Kohlschrieber, but she knows Venus. One casual viewer is worth the same as a TT hard core viewer, and we have nowhere else to go. I think women's tennis is probably a huge draw for all the casual fans who don't watch much sports.
 
bjk said:
So how come every time I turn on Tennis Channel or ESPN they're always showing a women's match? ESPN would rather show Venus playing a Ukrainian teenager than show something really good like Kohlschrieber/Thiem. I don't know why that is, but the casual fan doesn't know Thiem or Kohlschrieber, but she knows Venus. One casual viewer is worth the same as a TT hard core viewer, and we have nowhere else to go. I think women's tennis is probably a huge draw for all the casual fans who don't watch much sports.
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Venus is American, that is in America. In South America where I live, there would never show such a match. They would show Cuevas vs Giraldo though. So you have to consider global TV rights. Not just the US.
 
But Navratilova, an 18-time Grand Slam winner, says women may not want to play at Indian Wells if he stays in charge.


She said Moore's views were "really disheartening", "extremely prejudiced" and "very old-fashioned."
"We have made it this far on our own, without help from male players, and will continue to do so in the future," Navratilova added.

"It would be hard to imagine any women to want to go and play at Indian Wells if Moore stays as the tournament director."

Navratilova, 59, was also disappointed by comments from world number one Novak Djokovic, who said he believes men should be awarded more prize money than women.

Speaking after his straight-sets win over Milos Raonic in the men's final at Indian Wells, the Serb said women deserve the money they get, but men should fight for more because their game attracts more viewers.

"Novak Djokovic, as much as I love him, clearly doesn't understand why, when women and men play in combined tournaments, they must be paid equally," Navratilova said. "I thought we settled that issue years ago."

World number one Serena Williams said Moore's statement was "offensive", calling it "mistaken and very, very, very inaccurate".

There has been equal prize money in all four majors - the Australian Open, US Open, French Open and Wimbledon - since 2007, as well as at combined Masters events, such as Indian Wells and Miami.

But female players are paid significantly less at women-only events when compared with similar-sized men's tournaments.
 
bjk said:
So how come every time I turn on Tennis Channel or ESPN they're always showing a women's match? ESPN would rather show Venus playing a Ukrainian teenager than show something really good like Kohlschrieber/Thiem. I don't know why that is, but the casual fan doesn't know Thiem or Kohlschrieber, but she knows Venus. One casual viewer is worth the same as a TT hard core viewer, and we have nowhere else to go. I think women's tennis is probably a huge draw for all the casual fans who don't watch much sports.
Click to expand...


Welcome to Merica baby. That's what it is. Nothing more. Nobody even watches WTA whether it si serena or Venus. Nobody gives two hoots about it.
 
Alien said:
Venus is American, that is in America. In South America where I live, there would never show such a match. They would show Cuevas vs Giraldo though. So you have to consider global TV rights. Not just the US.
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Nope, here in Australia and the same thing. In fact the Fed Cup is best month, USA v Aus and people are really hoping that Venus and/or Serena make the trip. Williams sisters are a massive drawcard for tennis
 
Have anyone ever try riding on a coattail? It is quite fun. It is like you don't have to do any work to move forward. That is clearly not the case with the WTA. Also, why is it necessary to make a comment like that? Sounds like he got rejected by a WTA player when he made a dirty pass and he is taking it out on the whole league.
 
I forget who posted the chart (think thread got deleted), the atp was at like 109mil and the wta was 59. Atp went up 16 from the previous year, the wta went up 6.

Take away the pc and what he said was correct.
 
marc45 said:
But Navratilova, an 18-time Grand Slam winner, says women may not want to play at Indian Wells if he stays in charge.
Click to expand...

I don't blame them and I would fully support such an action. The tournament has lost credibility in my opinion. The WTA needs to back up it's players here.
 
insideguy said:
Lol ok ill accept that
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Just look at the top players in WTA. Muguruza, Kvitova .. They cannot even play two tournaments continuously well. They are top 5.

Look at Kerber. She is the AO champion and cannot string 2 wins consecutively.

Wozniacki is top 20 till recently and she is busy doing her SI swimsuit modelling and barely winning matches.

Players like Errani find a way to be relevant with such a weak serve and game.
 
tennisaddict said:
Just look at the top players in WTA. Muguruza, Kvitova .. They cannot even play two tournaments continuously well. They are top 5.

Look at Kerber. She is the AO champion and cannot string 2 wins consecutively.

Wozniacki is top 20 till recently and she is busy doing her SI swimsuit modelling and barely winning matches.

Players like Errani find a way to be relevant with such a weak serve and game.
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Nadal is top 5 and hasnt won a tier 1 tournament in two years. The number two player just got blown out on iw. The number 3 player didnt even play. You were saying?
 
Everyone these days seems to be inspired to make non-PC statements. They must be inspired by the US political debates.
Quite amusing/entertaining to read these non-PC statements. Keep them coming ... :D
 
Alien said:
Venus is American, that is in America. In South America where I live, there would never show such a match. They would show Cuevas vs Giraldo though. So you have to consider global TV rights. Not just the US.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting the US is not the sporting focal point of the world? You trying to get your own "Alien should be fired thread"???
 
insideguy said:
Nadal is top 5 and hasnt won a tier 1 tournament in two years. The number two player just got blown out on iw. The number 3 player didnt even play. You were saying?
Click to expand...

Rafa may not have won tier 1 because Novak is winning everything in sight. However his performance even this year is better than WTA's top.

Muguruza is 6-5 for the year.
Halep is 6-6 .
Kvitova is 5-7.
 
tennisaddict said:
Rafa may not have won tier 1 because Novak is winning everything in sight. However his performance even this year is better than WTA's top.

Muguruza is 6-5 for the year.
Halep is 6-6 .
Kvitova is 5-7.
Click to expand...
Still hasnt won anything in two years. Any of those players has had better results in big tournaments. Halep at least has won a tier one. The finalist at indian wells just got pounded 6-2 6-0. The player who played the womens number 1 just won 6-4 6-4. The funniest thing about wta bashers is the top ten men have done less than the top ten women.
 
insideguy said:
Still hasnt won anything in two years. Any of those players has had better results in big tournaments. Halep at least has won a tier one. The finalist at indian wells just got pounded 6-2 6-0. The player who played the womens number 1 just won 6-4 6-4. The funniest thing about wta bashers is the top ten men have done less than the top ten women.
Click to expand...

That is because Serena plays a limited calendar. The way to compare the top 10 is the Win-loss percentage.
 
tennisaddict said:
That is because Serena plays a limited calendar. The way to compare the top 10 is the Win-loss percentage.
Click to expand...
No. If serena played as much as joker she would lose more. You know it. Face it. She would never make 20 of 21 finals or whatever ridiculous streak joker has now
 
insideguy said:
No. If serena played as much as joker she would lose more. You know it. Face it. She would never make 20 of 21 finals or whatever ridiculous streak joker has now
Click to expand...

Serena was the one going for the grand slam in 2015, not Novak.

You forget the fact that Serena is 34 and yet the top 10 has trouble beating her. The h2h is shameful.
 
tennisaddict said:
Serena was the one going for the grand slam in 2015, not Novak.

You forget the fact that Serena is 34 and yet the top 10 has trouble beating her. The h2h is shameful.
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Serena actually didnt make it to all four finals. Joker did. Look at this last torunament for the men. A 18 year old choked like a chicken against nadal then the supposed number 6 in the world barely showed up against him. The men are no better and possibly worse..
 
insideguy said:
Serena actually didnt make it to all four finals. Joker did. Look at this last torunament for the men. A 18 year old choked like a chicken against nadal then the supposed number 6 in the world barely showed up against him. The men are no better and possibly worse..
Click to expand...

You cannot look at isolated data points. You have to look at year on year performance. Win-loss % is the way to do it.
 
marc45 said:
But Navratilova, an 18-time Grand Slam winner, says women may not want to play at Indian Wells if he stays in charge.


She said Moore's views were "really disheartening", "extremely prejudiced" and "very old-fashioned."
"We have made it this far on our own, without help from male players, and will continue to do so in the future," Navratilova added.

"It would be hard to imagine any women to want to go and play at Indian Wells if Moore stays as the tournament director."

Navratilova, 59, was also disappointed by comments from world number one Novak Djokovic, who said he believes men should be awarded more prize money than women.

Speaking after his straight-sets win over Milos Raonic in the men's final at Indian Wells, the Serb said women deserve the money they get, but men should fight for more because their game attracts more viewers.

"Novak Djokovic, as much as I love him, clearly doesn't understand why, when women and men play in combined tournaments, they must be paid equally," Navratilova said. "I thought we settled that issue years ago."

World number one Serena Williams said Moore's statement was "offensive", calling it "mistaken and very, very, very inaccurate".

There has been equal prize money in all four majors - the Australian Open, US Open, French Open and Wimbledon - since 2007, as well as at combined Masters events, such as Indian Wells and Miami.

But female players are paid significantly less at women-only events when compared with similar-sized men's tournaments.
Click to expand...


Really Martina - why? What is the reasoning by which you arrived at that conclusion other then "well reasons and feminism". It's a fact that WTA matches do not sell the same amount of tickets as ATP matches at the combined event. Yet equal pay for well... REASONS!!!!
 
Chadillac said:
I forget who posted the chart (think thread got deleted), the atp was at like 109mil and the wta was 59. Atp went up 16 from the previous year, the wta went up 6.

Take away the pc and what he said was correct.
Click to expand...

Honestly I wish it was Djokovic who had made the "coattails" comment in addition to what he said about pay. Def mad props for Nole not caving into PC pressure.
 
tennisaddict said:
You cannot look at isolated data points. You have to look at year on year performance. Win-loss % is the way to do it.
Click to expand...
Whats funny bout tennis fans on this board is the clamor for new blood but actually just want some new blood that is consistent and wins all the time therfore not making it new blood. Cause then its predictable. Here is what i can gather from you guys. You want about 3 or 4 dudes to split up the slams like a pizza on a regular basis. No more than that. Well unless its your favorite guy or girl then you want them to win all the time. Its literally impossible to figure out. One thing i have noticed is many of you are soccer fans. And more so european soccer fans. That explains alot as far as fandom. Same teams winning every year. No divergance. Oh look bayern won. Whohoo. Who could imagine. Zzzzzzzzzz
 
insideguy said:
Whats funny bout tennis fans on this board is the clamor for new blood but actually just want some new blood that is consistent and wins all the time therfore not making it new blood. Cause then its predictable. Here is what i can gather from you guys. You want about 3 or 4 dudes to split up the slams like a pizza on a regular basis. No more than that. Well unless its your favorite guy or girl then you want them to win all the time. Its literally impossible to figure out. One thing i have noticed is many of you are soccer fans. And more so european soccer fans. That explains alot as far as fandom. Same teams winning every year. No divergance. Oh look bayern won. Whohoo. Who could imagine. Zzzzzzzzzz
Click to expand...

Current ATP and WTA have everything that can go wrong

- 34 year old ATP at #2 or #3
- 34 year old WTA at #1
- No consistency in WTA amongst top 10
- No one apart from Fed can defeat Novak in ATP
- The only rivalry on ATP side at majots is Fed-Novak and that is becoming a known outcome
- ATP top 10 is consistent but they are like gatekeepers

What is needed is a balance between current ATP and current WTA with more than 1 favorite for any major.
 
tennisaddict said:
Current ATP and WTA have everything that can go wrong

- 34 year old ATP at #2 or #3
- 34 year old WTA at #1
- No consistency in WTA amongst top 10
- No one apart from Fed can defeat Novak in ATP
- The only rivalry on ATP side at majots is Fed-Novak and that is becoming a known outcome
- ATP top 10 is consistent but they are like gatekeepers

What is needed is a balance between current ATP and current WTA with more than 1 favorite for any major.
Click to expand...
You asking for something artificial. Sorry thats not sport.
 
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