women's singles

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I am seeing well trained strokes, good variety and good point building. Lady with the tan shorts ... needs to work on that serve ... serious liability ... more like a serve one would see in 3.0 not 3.0/4.5. She makes up for it with great depth on a lot of her baseline, and nice to see her come to net.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I am seeing well trained strokes, good variety and good point building. Lady with the tan shorts ... needs to work on that serve ... serious liability ... more like a serve one would see in 3.0 not 3.0/4.5. She makes up for it with great depth on a lot of her baseline, and nice to see her come to net.
Agreed. I'm assuming the lady with the better serve is the 4.5 (although she is the less consistent.) They both look like really good players and better than the 4.0/4.5's I'm used to seeing.

The better server is making a ton of UE's. The other really needs to improve her serve as her opponent is teeing off an every return and putting her on immediate defense. She protects the return pretty well playing defense then gets back to even quickly.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I watched the rest of the match and was surprised the heavier set woman won the match in straight sets.

This is another case of one person having a much better serve and groundstrokes but a less developed tennis IQ. She lost that match beating herself.

This reminds me of the thread "I can't believe I lost this match"

With a few small adjustments, the lady who lost could definitely beat that opponent. She just needs to clean up the crazy number of UE's.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
Always amazes me how often you see people who have clearly invested a lot of time and money into their strokes play totally brainless tennis

not that I want to take anything away from tan shorts, who played a very intelligent match
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Always amazes me how often you see people who have clearly invested a lot of time and money into their strokes play totally brainless tennis

not that I want to take anything away from tan shorts, who played a very intelligent match

I definitely know how to play brainless tennis!

It was nice to see the point construction by the Tan Shorts ....

Definitely higher level strokes than I see playing 3.5 and 4.0. The UE rate by Blue Shirt makes me wonder if the balls she is getting have much more spin on them than I can see on video and much more than I see even at 4.0.
 

ktx

Professional
@tennis doggo are these ladies 4.0 or 4.5 or not rated? I think blue shirt looks like she has the strokes she just needs to improve her footwork and taking the ball earlier. I have seen a wide variety of serves at 4.0 and 4.5 so tan shorts' serve doesn't surprise me - it can be tricky to return those dink serves too - have to be careful not to overhit them.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
I don't watch much ladies club tennis let alone singles, but my initial thought is that they are better than 4.0/4.5.
Consider than women usually will have a rating +0.75 or so higher than a male of equivalent ability, and then compare this match with your typical 4.0 male singles players.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Everyone assume the blue shirt is 4.5 based on her serve

but tan shorts is 4.5
blue shirt is 4.0 (I'm sure she will get bumped for the next year)
I assumed it for the first couple of games based on her serve and groundstrokes. I started doubting as the match progressed. Was sure after the first set it was tan shorts that was the higher rated player. The lower rated player has the higher potential ceiling, IMO.
 
I don't watch much ladies club tennis let alone singles, but my initial thought is that they are better than 4.0/4.5.
Consider than women usually will have a rating +0.75 or so higher than a male of equivalent ability, and then compare this match with your typical 4.0 male singles players.

"Consider than women usually will have a rating +0.75 or so higher than a male of equivalent ability"
is that really true?


The title of the video states the guy is 4.0 but his actual rating is 3.5 atm.

 
I definitely know how to play brainless tennis!

It was nice to see the point construction by the Tan Shorts ....

Definitely higher level strokes than I see playing 3.5 and 4.0. The UE rate by Blue Shirt makes me wonder if the balls she is getting have much more spin on them than I can see on video and much more than I see even at 4.0.


what would be a good advice for power hitter like blue shirt to reduce unforced errors?
 

Chalkdust

Professional
"Consider than women usually will have a rating +0.75 or so higher than a male of equivalent ability"
is that really true?
That seems to be the conventional wisdom - various threads on this board discussing this topic.
Also fits in with my own observations.
Also fits in with UTR conversion guidelines... for example look here:
https://support.universaltennis.com...-universal-tennis-adult-leagues-united-states
If you look in the NTRP to UTR tables,
UTR range 5-6.99 translates to Women NTRP 4.5/5.0, and Men NTRP 4.0.
Of course there are always going to be individual examples that buck this rule of thumb.
 
I assumed it for the first couple of games based on her serve and groundstrokes. I started doubting as the match progressed. Was sure after the first set it was tan shorts that was the higher rated player. The lower rated player has the higher potential ceiling, IMO.

The blue shirt clearly got the talent on hitting ball hard.
I really like the tan shorts variation on defense (block, slice and lob) and her positioning adjustments after each shots
 
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That seems to be the conventional wisdom - various threads on this board discussing this topic.
Also fits in with my own observations.

Considering the match result based on that match against a 3.5 man, do you think her rating should be 4.0 or 4.5?
After all NTRP C rating comes from your match result and not the level of your technique.
 

Chalkdust

Professional
Considering the match result based on that match against a 3.5 man, do you think her rating should be 4.0 or 4.5?
After all NTRP C rating comes from your match result and not the level of your technique.
I wouldn't draw conclusions from one match. Maybe the guy was having a good day. Maybe the girl was having a bad day. And is the guy's rating accurate? Video title says he's 4.0 but you said 3.5 at the moment... but maybe he's a 4.0 in ability but rating has not caught up yet?
But let's put it this way... I think if the girl played in a 3.5 men's league, she would have a winning record, and I think she would do ok in a men's 4.0 league (not winning, but not the worst either).
But what do I know :)
 

ktx

Professional
what would be a good advice for power hitter like blue shirt to reduce unforced errors?
IMO as someone who plays like blue shirt, it’s about footwork and patience. She isn’t getting to the ball early enough on her backhand, and you have to really learn how to wait for the right ball to attack. Maybe working on some tactics against really consistent players like tan shorts too. She gave her too many Fhs and her fh was really strong.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
"Consider than women usually will have a rating +0.75 or so higher than a male of equivalent ability"
is that really true?


The title of the video states the guy is 4.0 but his actual rating is 3.5 atm.


My opinion, after watching this video and before reading your comment, was that the guy was a 3.5 playing up. He is what is known as a pusher from hell on this forum. He had no discernible weapons beside running down most balls and getting them safely back in court, both high and deep.

The lady seems right around 4.0. Again, she lost this set due to her own high number of UE's. She was the player moving the ball around and going for winners when she had an opening. The issue was she missed too many easy returns and made too many UE's on neutral balls when she was under no pressure.

IMO, again based on this video, she has the higher potential ceiling (by far.) However, she must cut out the silly UE's on the neutral balls. Those are unforgivable.

If she can cut the UE's in half by going for safer targets and aiming 2-3 feet inside the lines, she'll beat this guy. Clean up the volley mistakes and for goodness sake cut out the UE's on neutral rally balls and easy serve returns. Minor adjustments will pay off big for her. She could move into 4.5 ladies within 6 months with more disciplined hitting.

The guy's ceiling based on this is 4.0. He'll never improve until he changes his mindset and starts going for shots when the opening presents itself. He's happy just getting the balls deep inside the court and waiting for errors. This opinion is solely based on this video against this opponent.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
what would be a good advice for power hitter like blue shirt to reduce unforced errors?

From my humble opinion, blue shirt is trying to go for too much too soon. She gets enough reinforcements on a few service winners that maybe she doesn't think she needs patience to build a point. Sometimes, leaving a neutral rally ball as neutral until you get an opportunity pays off.
 
"He is what is known as a pusher from hell on this forum. He had no discernible weapons beside running down most balls and getting them safely back in court, both high and deep."

"The guy's ceiling based on this is 4.0. He'll never improve until he changes his mindset and starts going for shots when the opening presents itself. He's happy just getting the balls deep inside the court and waiting for errors. This opinion is solely based on this video against this opponent."

Bud:
I totally agree with those statements above. "running down most balls and getting them safely back in court, both high and deep." will work and you can win in 3.5 level but if you are trying to win 4.0+ level you will need something extra. I think this guy has talent on his net game

 

mpnv1990

Rookie
I watched the rest of the match and was surprised the heavier set woman won the match in straight sets.

This is another case of one person having a much better serve and groundstrokes but a less developed tennis IQ. She lost that match beating herself.

This reminds me of the thread "I can't believe I lost this match"

With a few small adjustments, the lady who lost could definitely beat that opponent. She just needs to clean up the crazy number of UE's.
You described somebody who was on my team in the spring who won’t be bumped up to 3.5, even though he has the ability.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Considering the match result based on that match against a 3.5 man, do you think her rating should be 4.0 or 4.5?
After all NTRP C rating comes from your match result and not the level of your technique.

i am playing a just bumped 4.0c female and I have a 3.0c men’s rating. I think I’m at the upper end of 3.0 but she may be mid 4.0. I know she was doing pretty well in a women’s 4.0 league last year as a 3.5 female. So a .75 rating difference might be accurate.

she beat me our last match in a match tie break. I will try to video our upcoming match and post it if she is ok with it.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
Dragon's serve is not a weapon at all, thereby negating a big advantage men normally have.
No aces and no service winners at all that I saw.
just an observation, not a judgement.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Dragon's serve is not a weapon at all, thereby negating a big advantage men normally have.
No aces and no service winners at all that I saw.
just an observation, not a judgement.

Well if he is good enough to get bumped to 4.0 (is he now 4.0?) he must be doing something better than 3.5 male players. I’m not good enough at watching video to tell for sure. Does he normally play singles in usta? Has he played any singles at the 4.0 level?



If he is a 3.5 and she is a 4.0 there could be a .75 dynamic rating difference between them.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
Moon Shooter - are you "dragon"? No insult was intended. Just an observation of the videos I watched.

I have played quite a bit of MXD and the psychological issues are incredibly intriguing to me given the wide variances in age and culture.
(I realize cross gender singles is an entirely diff. game)

For example, old school, macho, or chivalric men have problems trying to hit hard at the woman player.
If both teams have this type of male player, not a big problem.

Others find the weaker player (usually the woman, no judgement, just observation) and in the course of the point try to isolate her and hit to her almost exclusively.
Some will also try to do this until the "duck" comes, at which point they hit the putaway at the man's side.
As a divorce lawyer, I really enjoy seeing these types of matches against a husband and wife playing together.

sorry to hijack your thread
 
Well if he is good enough to get bumped to 4.0 (is he now 4.0?) he must be doing something better than 3.5 male players. I’m not good enough at watching video to tell for sure. Does he normally play singles in usta? Has he played any singles at the 4.0 level?

If he is a 3.5 and she is a 4.0 there could be a .75 dynamic rating difference between them.


Dragon's current rating is 3.5C. I personally believe he is one of the top 3.5 in this area
Im currently editing his match against 4.0C
 
Dragon's serve is not a weapon at all, thereby negating a big advantage men normally have.
No aces and no service winners at all that I saw.
just an observation, not a judgement.

for a 3.5 player, I think he got pretty good directional control and spin for his serve
I feel like consistency is the key of winning matches in 3.5 level so I think he's doing good for now
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Moon Shooter - are you "dragon"? No insult was intended. Just an observation of the videos I watched.

I have played quite a bit of MXD and the psychological issues are incredibly intriguing to me given the wide variances in age and culture.
(I realize cross gender singles is an entirely diff. game)

For example, old school, macho, or chivalric men have problems trying to hit hard at the woman player.
If both teams have this type of male player, not a big problem.

Others find the weaker player (usually the woman, no judgement, just observation) and in the course of the point try to isolate her and hit to her almost exclusively.
Some will also try to do this until the "duck" comes, at which point they hit the putaway at the man's side.
As a divorce lawyer, I really enjoy seeing these types of matches against a husband and wife playing together.

sorry to hijack your thread

No I’m not dragon and no offense would be taken. His game is better than mine. I posted some of my matches in titochops thread. Although they may be over a year old now.

I agree with what you said about the dynamics of current mixed. I think the winning strategy is often hit to the woman because men have a deflated rating compared to women. But yes I do feel much worse when an overhead or hard shot hits a woman compared to a man. But women with more skills and abilities know how to avoid that better. That is why I would like usta to use one rating system for everyone.

Perhaps I am not so wrapped up in the difference between men and women because the top pro I have done the most clinics with over the 4 years of playing is a D1 female coach. She would often bring her players to help with the clinics. So I don’t share the view some seem to have that at the adult rec level men and women could never properly compete in tennis. The problem is the dual rating system.

I will ask the 4.0 female if she would agree to have our match videoed. She did beat me last time and she reminds me of the albiceleste a bit in how she plays. I think she is about that level but we all look worse on vide then we imagine in real life.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Agreed. I'm assuming the lady with the better serve is the 4.5 (although she is the less consistent.) They both look like really good players and better than the 4.0/4.5's I'm used to seeing.

The better server is making a ton of UE's. The other really needs to improve her serve as her opponent is teeing off an every return and putting her on immediate defense. She protects the return pretty well playing defense then gets back to even quickly.
Except that the so callled 4.5 can not punish that 3.0 serve and makes tons of errors. She looks 4.0, plus a slower mover than the tan shorts.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
2nd set


what can Albiceleste do to beat Brimstone??

It is hard to say because Brimstone is so precise and consistent with her shots. I think try to keep an advantage from the serve and return. AlbiCeleste never tried serve and volley. And didn’t seem to try to get too much of an advantage off second serves.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
1st set - Dan the Stan was told by somebody that, due to her western forehand grip she cant handle slice at all. He proceeds to hit a BUNCH of "slices" that do nothing but sit up for her to step up and nail.

2nd set - He figures out that the prior strategy was not working at all. He then proceeds to hit "regularly", at least on his forehand. dramatic difference.
 
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