World Tour Finals vs Olympics Gold
- Thread starter Omega_7000
- Start date
cknobman
Legend
A gold medal is a gold medal regardless of why you earned it and I think that is the real VALUE most refer to when talking about Olympics. You accomplished something for your country no one else in the world could (at the time).
So then if we are going to value the Olympics in such a way my next question would be what makes one gold medal have more value than another?
In theory it should not.
Firing Forehand
Rookie
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Exactly, if the value is derived out of playing for the country and winning a gold is much more valuable than silver and bronze or no medal, i cannot see in what way a doubles gold is inferior to singles.
Countless holes in 'singles olympic gold is greatest' argument
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Winning singles adds more legacy than winning doubles ?
batz
G.O.A.T.
And my next answer would be where one gold medal represents a higher level of achievement e.g. a singles gold medal adds much more to player's CV than a doubles or mixed gold medal - just as doubles and mixed slam wins are less of an achievement than singles slam wins.
It takes a particular kind of cognitive dissonance to argue that Roger Feder is GOAT because 17 > everyone else and then argue that in tennis, achievements in doubles are in any way comparable to singles, because if that's true, then 17 isn't the benchmark any more.
Last edited:
batz
G.O.A.T.
Really? You are actually asking that question? :shock:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Federer cried after losing to Nadal at AO, but did not cry at Wimbledon. Does that mean Federer values AO more than wimbledon ?
Federer was almost in tears this WTF after winning against Delpo. What does that mean ?
One cannot assign importance based on crying, espescially based on the emotional guy that is Federer.
Why is Wimbledon valued the same as the other slams yet it is valued more by the players, has more history and prestige. While some people are using these reason to rate the Olympics higher than a WTF.
ATP values the slam all the same because they all have the same structure and difficulty. Same reason why they value the WTF higher than the Olympics. They also value a masters higher is because the draw strength is generally going to be slightly stronger than the Olympics.
ATP values the slam all the same because they all have the same structure and difficulty. Same reason why they value the WTF higher than the Olympics. They also value a masters higher is because the draw strength is generally going to be slightly stronger than the Olympics.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
They all carry different prize money in majors.
But the olympic medal tally is the same whether you get a singles gold or doubles gold.
Olympics is an event for bringing countries together, not to test which individual player is the best. If one forgets this basic tenet, then it is hard to impress.
Firing Forehand
Rookie
If you consider Bryans' legacy, it will be different.
But if you consider SINGLES GOAT debate, then yes, doubles dont compute.
Does Federer or any other great play doubles at Slams? hmmmm NO
Scale from 1 to 10, Federer fans are the most objective.
very bias--1---------.----2---------.----3----------.--4-----------.--5-------.------6-----.--------7-------------8-------------9-.------------10--objective
-----------------Sampras fans-----Nadal fans--------Serena fans------Nole fans----Laver fans----Murray fans--------------------------------Fed Fans
Last edited:
batz
G.O.A.T.
Another beautifully constructed strawman.
It is true that at a general level, a gold medal is a gold medal. It is also true that within tennis, achievements in doubles are < achievements in singles.
That fact that you are attempting to argue otherwise is purely a function of your idol's inability to win a singles gold. Had Roger won one of those things we would not be having this conversation.
Firing Forehand
Rookie
Omega_7000
Legend
You're comparing ATP with Olympics which is flawed. The Olympic committee does not differentiate between individual and team events. Everyone gets the same gold medal and all of them are equally prestigious...Only in tennis media is singles gold given more importance because it makes for interesting stories.
For example, Michael Phelps is the world record holder for highest number of gold medals but almost half of his medals are from team events....The Olympics are run by a different set of rules.
Omega_7000
Legend
Sure, but I don't think it will fit. However it can be repost again for anyone who's not aware.
moonballs
Hall of Fame
In singles goat debate Olympic gold should count somewhere close to but below a wtf. It has only become important since 2008, and even that had a lot to to with Beijing elevated the Games by a great deal. Two events don't make a long tradition.
Last edited:
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Did Agassi and Sampras participate in 2000 olympics ? If Agassi felt 1996 olympics was a defining moment, why did he not participte ?
Infact Agassi and Hewitt did not play 2004.
If olympics is so important, why is ATP simply not giving more points to the event ? If it is truly more than a WTF, are they not insulting the event by giving half the point it is worth ? Do you think it will be ok to give Wimbledon winner or AO winner only 1000 points ?
Federer earns 70 mill a year and he has to keep giving 4 year time horizon to keep the engine running.
BTW, Fish likes Wimbledon and grass. Dont you find a silver medallist having a career renaissance just bailing out from 2012 olympics mean anything ?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Federer has won like 20 masters and 77 titles. Do his fans keep talking about the masters ? No.
They only talk about the important events - Majors and WTF - where the best of the best play.
WTF will always have more all-time great winners because only the top 8 players can participate. A surprise winner would be the 7th or 8th ranked player. That's not a fair comparison.
After the WTF went from 5 to 3 set final, it lost some prestige in my opinion. So, I'd rate them pretty equal.
After the WTF went from 5 to 3 set final, it lost some prestige in my opinion. So, I'd rate them pretty equal.
The Olympic committee recognizes both a singles medal and a team medal as ONE medal. The Bryans won one medal, though they were given two.
Omega_7000
Legend
Are you saying Michael Phelp's or Usain Bolt's team event gold medals should not be counted towards their tally of total number of gold medals?
robertharris
Banned
Jeffrey573639
Semi-Pro
Agreed that the Sampras fans (i.e. 90's) are the most biased but I think it's a bit unfair to the Rafa fans that their image needs to be so tarnished just because they produce the most zealous fans i.e. Batman and Rafa S King
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
............
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
Better question is why didn't the Olympic singles gold medallist show up to defend his medal in 2012 ? Please don't give me the 'he was injured' argument. Just until one month before he was beasting and having one of his best clay season runs. A loss to Rosol couldn't be so bad to digest that he had to bail out of Olympics.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Just more baloney from you. I'm going to rip you apart now.
Irrelevant. Wawrinka was no where near the top back then. Nadal ranked second and had won a major. No comparison at all.
So why couldn't Switzerland win without Roger? Why should Roger play these useless ties and waste his energy on the travel? Why couldn't the Swiss have won it without Roger if it were so easy? Besides, Federer had a foot injury that year.
Haha, what a BS-artist you are.
So?
So? He didn't play the final and let us know HOW MANY previous ties he played. Otherwise get lost.
Edit: He played only ONE previous tie and those were the semis. I'm sure Roger would play every tie from QF onward if his team could even make it that far without him.
I don't recall Nadal playing DC Final in 2009. Either way, if he did, my mistake. But let us know HOW MANY previous ties he played. Easy to come and eat the cake in the Final. I'm sure if Federer could get away playing may be on or two previous ties and then the final, he would. Why should he play ties knowing Switzerland will probably lose any other tie he does not play?
If Nadal's contribution were more he'd have played and won more ties. Quit the BS. Why has Federer won more overall ties if Nadal's contribution is so instrumental?
If Switzerland cannot even get past teams like Kazakhstan without Federer they don't deserve to win and they don't deserve Federer playing for them.
Either way, given that it is a TEAM EVENT, DC is irrelevant to a player's INDIVIDUAL legacy.
Last edited:
10is
Professional
Nadal did give a
explanation for missing the 2012 Olympics. But with Nadal, it's always wise to check his words against his actions.Nadal claimed that his left knee had been injured since February 2012 (hoffa syndrome, partial tear, tendinitis). These are overuse injuries, i.e., they happen because the player played too much and over-strained his body. Yet Nadal continued to play a packed schedule of 9 tournaments from Indian Wells to Wimbledon (he even added extra matches by playing unnecessary doubles at Halle, Indian Wells, Miami).
Nadal wasn't taken out of the Rosol match on a wheelchair. He was walking and running normally to the end, except for moments when he was outplayed and began looking anxious and resigned. If Nadal looked fit enough at the end of the Rosol match, why would he not have become fitter after four weeks of rest before the Olympics? Why couldn't Nadal have made the effort to play the Olympics at Wimbledon, especially if the gold medal really was "that" important to him. After all, in 2005 Fall, Federer had suffered ligament tears in his ankle, was in a cast and on crutches for two weeks, yet one month after getting injured he showed up at the year-end championships in Shanghai where he lost a five-hour, marathon five setter against Nalbandian even though his ankle handn't fully healed.
Also, a person with knee injuries should not be playing golf. However according to *******, himself, he played golf almost every day he was off - from at least early September 2012 to late January 2013. Now, remember that Nadal plays golf right-handed, which means his front knee is his "ailing" left knee, so the front knee in golf is the one that receives all the torque from the downswing. It OBVIOUSLY makes perfect sense that an athlete in fear of his career due to a left knee injury would play golf every day while "recuperating" from his "injury."
It's rational and reasonable to conclude that Team Nadal did not want to risk Nadal losing to Federer, Djokovic or Murray at the Wimbledon Olympics after his shaky form on grass (given Nadal's first round loss in 2013 Wimbledon, this is plausible). It's also reasonable to consider that losing so early at 2012 Wimbledon, given the points situation then, meant that Nadal was unlikely to finished the year No.1 - thus #TeamEgo shut down for the season.
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
Says who ? His SOG, the defender of his legacy, is the one in my avatar.
M
monfed
Guest
Good thing Fed has two of those, I know I'd like both silver and gold. :lol:
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
... and fernando gonzalez has the complete collection !
That's your opinion.
Objectively speaking, if you want purely singles value, then you'd have to use the ATP point system in which Olympic Gold is above ATP500 but below MS1000 let alone WTF.
If you want to use Olympic values then singles gold is the same as doubles gold.
You may not agree with it but these are the facts.
