Worth it to switch from closed to open stance forehand?

[Caswell]

I'm playing tennis again after roughly a decade away from the game. I was taught to hit my forehand from a more "classical" pro who started me off with a continental grip and a closed stance. I eventually convinced him to let me hit an eastern forehand, but hitting from an open stance was still forbidden. If you couldn't get to a forehand with a closed stance, it was your footwork that was the problem, not the stance.

Fast forward to today. My first private lesson was with a former WTA pro who's my age (27). One of the first things she does was gets me to hit my forehand from a (more) open stance. Like many things, it seemed to work during the lesson but in match play my body is confused. My forehand used to be a very heavy, flat ball that I could hit with tons of pace, depth, and placement. Aside from my serve, that was my weapon. I'm trying to hit from an open stance now and it seems to lack all of those things.

My one-handed backhand is still hit from a closed stance, and frankly it's starting to eclipse my forehand in all areas. I think that most of it is footwork - getting in position for my backhand is critical, while an open stance forehand seems to be fooling me into some shoddy footwork. That said, in match play when I'm relying on instinct my legs are all confused about weight distribution, and part of me thinks that even with proper footwork I'll never get the power back into my forehand because I'll never be able to undo years of constant drilling on a closed stance.

Is there any compelling reason to force myself into an open stance for every forehand? I understand the benefit of using it in a defensive situation, and that's working out ok, it's mainly rallying and trying to put away short balls that I'm getting confused on.

Sorry for the long post, it's just extremely frustrating to play struggling with what was my primary weapon.

 

[mucat]

IMO, you don't have to limit yourself to one stance. Use whatever stance is better for the situation. Close stance when you have time to setup, open stance when you don't have time to setup. You mention using open stance in defensive situation, you should also try hitting offensive shot from open stance.

BTW, I also use eastern FH grip and close stance, but I will hit with open stance when the situation allows or requires.

 

[Caswell]

IMO, you don't have to limit yourself to one stance. Use whatever stance is better for the situation. Close stance when you have time to setup, open stance when you don't have time to setup. You mention using open stance in defensive situation, you should also try hitting offensive shot from open stance.

BTW, I also use eastern FH grip and close stance, but I will hit with open stance when the situation allows or requires.

I completely agree about not limiting myself. Really though, the rally and offensive strokes are where my body is simply confused. My instinct is to load up my left leg and push off there (dragging my right toe). To get my weight over the right leg is extremely foreign.

I have a feeling that the annual fee for unlimited use of the ball machine at my club is in my future...

 

[Midlife crisis]

I completely agree about not limiting myself. Really though, the rally and offensive strokes are where my body is simply confused. My instinct is to load up my left leg and push off there (dragging my right toe). To get my weight over the right leg is extremely foreign.

I have a feeling that the annual fee for unlimited use of the ball machine at my club is in my future...

I stopped playing for a longer period than you did, basically from the earlier 80's until last year. I've always been a very aggressive player so I can't honestly tell when I started hitting with an open stance forehand, but I do so now probably 75% of the time. I do remember learning the "classical" way with a closed stance and still do that when I have to move a couple of steps to my forehand side and the timing of my footwork allows me to stop forward with my left foot (I'm a righty).

The key that makes it easy for me is that the stance doesn't have to dictate what your torso does. You can have an open stance but still turn your shoulders so your torso is closed. This gives you the additional capability of unwinding your torso as you hit, adding a lot of racquet head speed. The classical closed stance forehand doesn't allow that much torso movement independent of the feet.

So, if you were to get a ball machine, I'd practice with your feet initially partly closed, but make sure you get your shoulders fully turned, releasing the torso twist to initiate the forward part of the swing. The only slight adjustment you might want to make is based on whether your not your shots are flying high, in which case you might want to move gradually towards a semi-western grip.

There are other, much better written descriptions of how to do this if you want to do a search.

 

[ask1ed]

I completely agree about not limiting myself. Really though, the rally and offensive strokes are where my body is simply confused. My instinct is to load up my left leg and push off there (dragging my right toe). To get my weight over the right leg is extremely foreign.

I have a feeling that the annual fee for unlimited use of the ball machine at my club is in my future...

Use your non dom. arm to point at the side fence or the ball, and point the face of your stick at the back fence, and load up the power on your back leg, into the ground, with deep knee bend, and drive with great force off the ground into the contact pt. far in front.

 

[Caswell]

Well, my ball machine session this afternoon pretty much confirmed that if I'm going to move to an open stance, it's going to happen at a later date.

I'm convinced it's just the instinct of years and years of grooving a forehand in a closed stance. I'd hit a few shots with an open stance, and they had no weight and were all over the place. I'd simply close up my stance and the shots had more drive, more spin, and I could put them exactly where I wanted them.

I don't doubt an open stance is more effective at creating racquet head speed, but frankly if I could get my old forehand back I'd be plenty happy, closed stance or not. I think the shortest path from here to there is to go with what I know.

 

[papa]

Well, one of the major reasons (however, there are several) the open stance has become popular (forehand) is because it "doesn't" lock out the action of the hips and shoulders. The open stance also makes it easier to recover and return to position.

i don't think anyone is saying the closed stance should be completely avoided because it has its place. It just that one can put more zip on the ball consistently with a more open stance. I might take a little practice but the rewards are worth it so you might want to really give it a try.

 

[Pomeranian]

I love the closed stance forehand, but if I have less time, an open stance is good too. To me the advantage of open is giving yourself more time to recover when running side to side. But when moving forward, closed is my favorite stance.

 

[uw10isplaya]

Just do whatever is comfortable. When you start forcing yourself to do stuff that doesn't come natural, things go awry. If you're moving sideways, it's natural to hit open-stance, because well, you're moving sideways. If you're moving foreward and the ball isn't a sitter, you'll most likely hit close-stance because you need to reach the ball. If the ball is a dead sitter, it's natural to come to the ball, split-step into an open stance, then destroy the ball. If the open-stance forehand feels completely awkward, it will be hard to learn the open stance as the awkwardness most likely comes from the mechanics of your forehand, not the stance itself.

 

[snoflewis]

i was taught to use both.

 

[lucky leprechaun]

I vary from wide open stance where I'm parallel to the net, to at most perpendicular to the net with my feet, never really any more closed than that. Most of my shots are hit with around a 45 degrees angle open stance to the net. I'm maybe opposite from you as I didn't take lessons. If I had to guess, I'd guess I developed open stance due to me loving the inside-out forehand and racking up a lot of points with it and I can't see a better way to hit inside out than with an open stance.

 

[Slazenger]

Are you saying that you crossover with your left leg when hitting forehands?
This is what I consider a closed stance. Will be hard to get into position if you are playing against pace.
I only hit this way for forehand slices and when I have time, forehand volleys.

If you are talking about a square stance where you feet are lined up or with front foot a bit to left of the back foot then it is easier to play against pace and get into position with this stance.

Whichever stance you use, play with what is comfortable. If you like the closed stance, excel at it, recognize the limitations it presents and develop your game and strokes to make up for its limitations.

 

[Boris]

My instinct is to load up my left leg and push off there (dragging my right toe). To get my weight over the right leg is extremely foreign.

Caswell,

I think that also on the closed stance forehand you should load your weight on the right foot, and shift your weight to the left foot during the swing (assuming you are a righty). Please guys correct me if I'm wrong.

I had a weight transfer issue when I used the closed stance, in that I'd invariably shift the weight on my left leg too early, perhaps similarly to what you say you do. For me, the neutral or open stance corrected the problem, bacause you really have to plant your right foot. It has taken some time, but not too much, to get used to it, especially avoiding hitting short by properly using the body, but I have never looked back. In the end, I now vary my stance slightly according to the shot I have to make, perhaps a bit more closed on approach shots, and more open during baseline rallies.

What Midlife Crisis says, that the stance doesn't have to dictate what your torso does, is the key aspect. You can't be lazy with your torso, only your legs are in open stance, but your hips have to rotate.

Good luck!

 

[Caswell]

I think what I meant was that it's foreign to have my right leg loaded and driving forward when I'm making contact with the ball. Is that where my weight should be when hitting open?

Even hitting closed, I'm starting with the weight on the right leg during the backswing, but when I make contact the left leg is the one that's driving forward. I'm still getting good rotation with my torso, enough to force my right leg to come up and drag that toe.

I have a feeling that my stance may not be completely closed off, but it's certainly not open. I've never seen myself play on video, and I've only seen a handful of pictures. Maybe I should get the wife to take some video of my groundstrokes.

 

[bc-05]

when ppl attack dont they use mostly closed stance? i mean the only players that ive seen hitting everything open is hewitt... safin, federer uses closed stance when they are going for winners or when they have time to set up.. for baseline exchanges they use open stances.. i reckon use both.. just use which one is right for the situation.. for me i reckon hitting close all the time if u can is better as it makes ur body weight wanting to go forward.. where as open for new ppl learning tennis they wanna hit as hard then their body weight goes back

 

[Boris]

Yes, for the attacks I think a neutral or closed stance will give you more accuracy.

Caswell,

sorry, I think I misunderstood your description of your stroke. As you put it in your last post it sounds OK. One visual concept I found useful (from these boards) is that, during the forehand, your weight should be roughly where your racquet is. So, at contact, I guess you should be unloading the right foot and shifting weight to the front foot. Hope this helps.

 

[Caswell]

Boris, I'm sure I could do a better job describing my stroke. I think I'm closer to a closed stance than an open stance, but that perception could be driven more by the fact that I close my shoulder to the ball. My feet may actually be slightly neutral - they're definatly not open, but the placement of my feet doesn't seem to restrict torso rotation - I end the stroke with my racquet over my left shoulder, and my chest somewhat parallel to the net. My left foot always in front.

You mentioned keeping my weight where the racquet is. This may be what's tripping me up when I hit more open. If I'm hitting in front of my body, my weight want to move from my right leg up to my left (which I keep slightly ahead of the right). My understanding is that I should be driving through the ball with my right leg when hitting open.

Thanks for listening to my long-winded replies... it's helping me just to talk through my strokes. I'm honestly considering going back to my old pro for a monthly lesson, even though he's in Orlando (about an hour and a half away). I'm wondering if he can help my strokes evolve to a more modern style instead of replacing them wholesale.

 

[Boris]

If I'm hitting in front of my body, my weight want to move from my right leg up to my left (which I keep slightly ahead of the right). My understanding is that I should be driving through the ball with my right leg when hitting open.

I think your understanding is correct. When I really load my shot, I end up airborne rather than on my left leg, because the weight shift lifts me from the ground and forward. However, please keep in mind that I'm no teaching pro

I think one or two lessons with a teaching pro should be enough to get you started with more modern technique and give you some things to work on. That's what I did when I switched to the neutral/open stance. (Obviously, more lessons will do no harm if you are willing to invest some money there.) For me, it felt natural from the start, and the transition has not been long, so good luck for your game!

 

[Caswell]

Thanks again Boris. I'm really considering taking a few lessons from the guy that taught me the game. Of the two pros at the club I play at, one seems too quick to make dramatic changes (had me hitting every forehand open) and the other basically looked at my strokes, said there was little to fix other than to knock the rust off, and ended up rallying with me for the duration of the lesson. It's nothing against them at all, I just didn't think either was right for me at the time.

 

[papa]

I think your understanding is correct. When I really load my shot, I end up airborne rather than on my left leg, because the weight shift lifts me from the ground and forward. However, please keep in mind that I'm no teaching pro

I think one or two lessons with a teaching pro should be enough to get you started with more modern technique and give you some things to work on. That's what I did when I switched to the neutral/open stance. (Obviously, more lessons will do no harm if you are willing to invest some money there.) For me, it felt natural from the start, and the transition has not been long, so good luck for your game!

Well, the weight shift alone is not lifting you from the court. A lot of the "lift" you experience comes from the resistance of the ball when its struck by your racquet. Although you can achieve the lift you describe just by swinging the racquet hard, its a lot easier (lift) when you strike a ball. Even though your left foot is still up in the air you have shifted your weight and your going forward. Your not, as you know, going to get much power in any shot if your going the other way - backwards.

I also disagree with those that issist they can get as much body rotation with a closed stance. Just try it yourself, and you'll see that the hips don't have the full rotation when in a closed stance - imposible. The more the left (front) foot crosses over the right (rear) the less the rotation will be. I happen to agree with those that think for maximum rotation, the left foot should be basically on a 45 degree angle. However, it doesn't mean one stance is wrong and the other right - both have their place and are used by everyone.

 

[cruzersi99]

Your stance should be dictated by the ball and your position. The open stance is popular in today's game due to the pace of the game, not because it's the best way to hit every ball.

Today's younger players learn to hit open stance as a result of extreme grips, and because it's what they see on TV. It doesn't make it right for every situation, but at the same time it's not a bad option to learn how to hit. Seeing as how you are more used to a closed stance setup, you should use this setup whenever possible. That being said, it is also advisable that you practice the open stance forehand as well as there will be times when you can't get into a closed position.

 

[lanky]

Im an old timer and now hit with various stances.the key for me was bungalow Bills explanation of the 45 degree angle for contact.I just concentrate on getting this alignment (upper body) correct and forget about position of feet.Keep body straight .(correct balance)and its easy.The feet find their own position be it neutral ,open or closed.I believe coaching in the past emphasised foot positioning too much.