MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Sounds like you've realized I'm right and the only argument you have is a pedantic one. My point stands. A peak Barty would not beat a peak Serena.
Would Ash Barty beat peak Serena on all surfaces?
- Thread starter Jokervich
- Start date
I never disagreed, I only said what you said was incorrect on two counts. First that Serena and Barty played in 2021, and second that it changes anything. It does change something. It changes what you wrote.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
The discussion is about Barty vs Serena, not a dissertation about what I wrote. Again, you're turning this into a completely irrelevant and pedantic argument.
Quan Que
Rookie
I kinda feel Serena would just eat up that slice backhand.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
Peak for peak, Barty would get steamrolled.
She's not in the same class as Serena.
She's not in the same class as Serena.
What you wrote was incorrect. Then you followed it up with more incorrect statements. Too many incorrect statements muddle the argument. You just can't admit your mistake, that's the problem.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Didn't I already thank someone for clarifying my error? The one here who can't admit anything is you.
that's the first error. The second error was saying it doesn't change ANYTHING. Anything is ANYTHING!
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Again, what's being discussed is could a peak Barty beat a peak Serena. "Doesn't change anything" is meant within that context. Go be pedantic somewhere else.
Anything means anything. If you use incorrect words, it's incorrect, period.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Go away troll.
I'm not a troll, you are for not admitting mistake.
Steffi-forever
Hall of Fame
In her peak/prime, Serena lost slam matches vs Stosur (2x), Makarova, Razzano, Stephens, Lisicki, Ivanovic, Cornet, Da Vinci, Pliskova...
I really don’t see why Barty wouldn’t beat Serena many times, as she is much better than all those one slam wonders and slamless/journey women?
I really don’t see why Barty wouldn’t beat Serena many times, as she is much better than all those one slam wonders and slamless/journey women?
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
Serena is overrated. Graf was a much better player
ronalditop
Hall of Fame
Probably. Sorana's rythm would be thrown off by Barto's slice. She was too used to one dimensional ball bashers.
NONSENSE!
EVERYONE has an off day. Barty has lost to a bunch of nobody's, as well.
joshuadearing
Rookie
Professionals not nobody's. Lets respect them all!
Steffi-forever
Hall of Fame
Right, everytime Serena lost, she had an off day and her opponent had a career-best performance.
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
She'd have a fairly good chance on clay, but not on grass or HC.
True, that was careless and unkind of me, even though I did not mean to be.
TopspintheTerrible
Hall of Fame
No. Peak Serena would have given some lower ranked, journeymen types a pretty good workout. Barty could win a few matches on clay and that’s prob it.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
What is Serena's peak anyway? When was it?
It's pretty easy to see when Federer's peak was, for example. But, Serena's been around so long and both her and the tour have evolved during that long career.
It's pretty easy to see when Federer's peak was, for example. But, Serena's been around so long and both her and the tour have evolved during that long career.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Well, in a normal field she would have the same or maybe one or two fewer slams scattered over several years. Aka a similar career to Barty or Osaka. I don't see Hingis dominating this field, the current one, for instance. She couldn't beat the Radwanska sisters in Fed Cup, she's not going to best Barty or Osaka. Hingis is a very odd peculiarity and completely a product of her time. There won't again be a player who could consistently be in the top echelons of the tour depending mostly on her placement and tactics rather than power. You had Wozniacki but she won just the one slam, which sort of proves my point. Hingis was Wozniacki with a less potent serve and hell lot more brains.
gadge
Hall of Fame
That’s the thing. Serena rarely loses to players more than once. She admitted that she analyses her loses and figure out a way to win the next time.
Jokervich
Hall of Fame
Any time between 2002 and 2015 when she was dominating I guess.
catskillthunder
Professional
Peak Serena would decimate Barty 9 out of 10 times. Ash is good, but nowhere the dominate force Serena was during her best years.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Clay would be her best bet, as if Serena has a "worst surface" its that. Barty is consistent, which would help against Serena's go big game. She would feed of Serena's errors if Serena started with them (and lets be real Serena has those days) without giving many back. it would really depend on if Barty could throw peak Serena off enough to be in it. I don't think she could come close to dominating Serena, but especially on clay she would have her chances and her ins.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
So like Stosur 2011 USO final? Or Stosur RG QF in 2010? Barty is a better player than Stosur ever was and Sam beat Serena thrice. 2014 Serena lost to Cornet three times. Barty has shown she is in the most dominant form at a slam since Serena dropping just 21 games to make a final. So this thread seems a tad bizarre.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Not bizarre at all. Even top players in their peak lose. I don't know of a single pro player with a decent career that is 100% undefeated. Do you? Sure, the "any given Sunday" thing applies and Barty could conceivably beat a peak Serena, but it would be very very unusual and would take a combination of Barty having one of her best days and Serena having an off day.
So no, in general, any version of Barty would not beat a peak Serena actually playing at her peak level during the match.
No_Kwan_Do
Semi-Pro
No player in history is beating Peak Serena on Grass or HCs, let alone Barty.
I'd give her a puncher's chance on Clay.
I'd give her a puncher's chance on Clay.
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Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Stosur can and did beat a prime Serena 3 times but Barty couldn’t conceivably defeat Serena unless it took a multitude of combination of things ? Make that make sense? To say any version of Barty couldn’t beat peak Serena yet Stosur did it three times? I don’t understand? Honestly, where is your head?
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I give Venus a good chance on grass. On slick grass, maybe an outside chance for Graf but I believe Serena, who had the ability to serve-volley, would pull it out of the shelf in those conditions and eat up Graf's weak backhand return.
No_Kwan_Do
Semi-Pro
I'm not sure about Venus. Peak Serena on Grass for me was London 2012.
| 642 | 1R | Jelena Janković | #18 | Win | 6–3, 6–1 |
| 643 | 2R | Urszula Radwańska | #45 | Win | 6–2, 6–3 |
| 644 | 3R | Vera Zvonareva | #13 | Win | 6–1, 6–0 |
| 645 | QF | Caroline Wozniacki | #8 | Win | 6–0, 6–3 |
| 646 | SF | Victoria Azarenka | #1 | Win | 6–1, 6–2 |
| 647 | G | Maria Sharapova | #3 | Win | 6–0, 6–1 |
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
It's a tough one. But Venus did give her a tough time often on grass and more so than on other surfaces.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
No. Wasn’t serious. I am just not a Serena fan
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
My head is right where it should be, not in some fantasyland. Again, point me to a pro player with a long career that is undefeated.
gadge
Hall of Fame
She lost 8 times. No one is saying barty won’t win against Serena at all just saying not consistently.
Serena was just coming off a year in hospital bed recovering from a serious illness in that 2011 USO final. One was on clay.
Of course she was coming off of some sort of injury, illness because we all know, at a nauseating level, that Serena has never been beaten.
gadge
Hall of Fame
It is true. She was making a return having skipped slams and tournaments between 2010 USO to 2011 FO. There was some issue with blood clotting.Of course she was coming off of some sort of injury, illness because we all know, at nauseating level, that Serena has never been beaten.
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