Would Becker have beaten McEnroe at 1985 Wimbledon?

dryeagle

Rookie
While unseeded, the 17 year old Boris Becker was having a great run on grass that 1985 summer having won Queens (beating Cash and Kriek) and working his way through the Wimbledon draw. Had some tough battles along the way with Nystrom in Round 3 and Mayotte in Round 4, both 5 setters where Becker was on the brink of losing. Becker came into the final against 8th seed Kevin Curren who had taken out Edberg, McEnroe and Connors all in straight sets on the strength of hard serve & volley game. I was a little young at the time, but I would have thought Curren to be favorite going into that final. But Boris came out and broke the nervous Curren quickly and took set 1. After losing set 2 in tiebreak and down a break in the 3rd, Boris rallies for a break then takes tiebreak to win set. Then he breaks early in the 4th set and holds throughout, becoming the youngest and first unseeded champion at Wimbledon.

John McEnroe came into 1985 after his strongest year and maybe the best year in the history of tennis in 1984 with 84-3 record. Again, I was too young at the time but I would have to assume he was the favorite going into 1985 Wimbledon as the #1 ranked player and winner of three of the last four Wimbledons. After getting to the QFs, he is surprisingly bounced easily by Curren at 62 62 64. It appeared that the power game had finally caught up to Mac in this match and he acknowledged as much afterwards. But he would go on to have a good summer winning 2 tournaments in straights over Lendl before losing in US Open final to Lendl. Finishes the 1985 season with a 71-9 record and #2 ranking. McEnroe was never the same after his 6 month sabbatical to start 1986.

Question: If Mac somehow gets by Curren and gets to final, who would win Wimbledon in 1985?

Becker had a great tournament, but would he have been ready to beat established #1 and defending champion? Was he just fortunate enough to avoid some of the bigger name players in that draw? (i.e. Mac, Connors, Lendl). While Mac was not the same as in 1984, he still had a very good year and something left in tank that summer. Would he have held is nerves a little better than Curren did that final Sunday?

To answer my own question, I would still lean to Becker over McEnroe that day. Perhaps an historic 5 setter similar to their 1987 Davis Cup classic. I think he had too much going his way that fortnight, and his heart, toughness and ability to play well in the biggest moments would have persevered.

Interested in your thoughts? And technical assessment as well.
 
McEnroe actually played Curren and Becker in back-to-back matches earlier in the year, beating Curren in the Houston (carpet) finals, 7-5, 6-1, 7-6, and beating Becker in his first match in Milan (carpet), 6-4, 6-3. This makes me think that McEnroe would have a shot against Becker in the final and that a loss against Current wasn't inevitable.
 
McEnroe actually played Curren and Becker in back-to-back matches earlier in the year, beating Curren in the Houston (carpet) finals, 7-5, 6-1, 7-6, and beating Becker in his first match in Milan (carpet), 6-4, 6-3. This makes me think that McEnroe would have a shot against Becker in the final and that a loss against Current wasn't inevitable.

Maybe but carpet and grass can still be distinctly different, despite in general people who love one, loving the other. Think of Seles and Muster for instance.

Now this doesn't apply to McEnroe as if anything he is even greater on grass, but it would apply to Curren who is nowhere near as dangerous on any other surface as he is on grass. Thus beating a vurnerable and already starting his decline McEnroe was much more likely on grass than on carpet for him.
 
Was Curren much better on grass than on carpet? Obviously, he reached the Wimbledon and Australian Open finals on grass, with overall records of 28-13 and 9-3 at those Majors. But he did make 8 finals on carpet, winning 4 of them. In fact, in the tournament before McEnroe beat him in the Houston final in 1985, Curren won the Toronto Indoor title on carpet.
 
Was Curren much better on grass than on carpet? Obviously, he reached the Wimbledon and Australian Open finals on grass, with overall records of 28-13 and 9-3 at those Majors. But he did make 8 finals on carpet, winning 4 of them. In fact, in the tournament before McEnroe beat him in the Houston final in 1985, Curren won the Toronto Indoor title on carpet.

I was pretty sure he was since the only big things I heard from him were about grass, but I admit I haven't researched his career, so I could be wrong.
 
If McEnroe played like he did against Curren then Becker would have won. If McEnroe was having a good day I would favour McEnroe, especially with his experience. 17 year old Becker was already a great grass court player, though not as good as he would become later. Very hard to predict given McEnroe's strange 1985. He went through patches of first rate play but could also be really flat.
 
This topic has come up before. While there was a TON of attention around Becker in '85 since he just won Queens, Mac was the favorite. Curren was not not about the 'power game'....his game was one thing.....his serve. Also keep in mind, this was old, fast grass, with the patchiness of week 2 play. Curren served out of his mind and basically shut down Mac and Connors back-to-back, no easy feat. I expected him to beat Becker, but at that point, I suspect others were as well. He did not play such a hot final. But, I'm certain it was easier for Becker to face Curren than Mac or Connors....Tiriac said as much....he felt the psychologic challenge would have been much bigger facing one of the 2 recent champs...perhaps too much too soon. Would've been fun to see him play either Mac or Jimmy....probably would have been a better match than what we got.
 
What if Connors got past Curren? Would Connors have beaten Becker in the 1985 Wimbledon final?
It probably would've been a good tussle....their matches were pretty competitive. In '85, Jimmy was showing some signs of decline (marginal mind you, since he was still in the Top 4), so, I'd expect Becker to be a stiff challenge. Hammer and tongs kind of match!
 
When Mcenroe and Lendl got beat, I really thought Connors would win. And never did I think he would get obliterated. Damn straight I thought Curren would beat Becker after the way he beat Connors and Mcenroe. But that is why they play the matches.
 
I think, Mac beat Becker a few times in 1985 after Wim, i think at Stratton Mountain and Antwerp in close matches. In 1986 however, Becker would have beaten the Mac of 1985/1986. he defended his Wim title by playing a much more solid and compact game. I think, 1986 Wim was the highpoint of Beckers career.
 
When Mcenroe and Lendl got beat, I really thought Connors would win. And never did I think he would get obliterated. Damn straight I thought Curren would beat Becker after the way he beat Connors and Mcenroe. But that is why they play the matches.
Same here...it was quite the surprising result
 
When Mcenroe and Lendl got beat, I really thought Connors would win. And never did I think he would get obliterated. Damn straight I thought Curren would beat Becker after the way he beat Connors and Mcenroe. But that is why they play the matches.
In some ways, his '86 win was more impressive. I was not expecting it and he took out Lendl in the final. No mean feat.
 
When Mcenroe and Lendl got beat, I really thought Connors would win. And never did I think he would get obliterated. Damn straight I thought Curren would beat Becker after the way he beat Connors and Mcenroe. But that is why they play the matches.

Curren didn't serve as well against Becker as he did against Connors and McEnroe. I believe Curren wasn't mentally strong enough to win Wimbledon. He said after his win against Connors that he hoped Jarryd would beat Becker because he would prefer to face Jarryd due to Becker's serve. That is not the self belief of a Wimbledon champion. You never hear people who win Wimbledon saying before the final they hope not to face someone.

Becker on the other hand had the mentality of a Grand slam champion, even at the age of 17.
 
Connors v. Becker in the 1985 final is an under-the-radar fascinating "what if" matchup.

Yeah, Becker beat Connors in a couple of close three set BO3 matches on carpet in 1986, and Connors 1985 >> Connors 1986. A Beckers/Connors match in the 1985 Wimbledon final could have been a lot of fun
 
Curren didn't serve as well against Becker as he did against Connors and McEnroe. I believe Curren wasn't mentally strong enough to win Wimbledon. He said after his win against Connors that he hoped Jarryd would beat Becker because he would prefer to face Jarryd due to Becker's serve. That is not the self belief of a Wimbledon champion. You never hear people who win Wimbledon saying before the final they hope not to face someone.

Becker on the other hand had the mentality of a Grand slam champion, even at the age of 17.


He had nowhere to go but down after Connors, Serving, I mean. Over half his serves were unreturned. Won like 90% of his first serves. Can't say I remember much of anything about the final, though. You might be right that it was mental. All I know is I thought he would win before the match with those 2 wins and Becker's inexperience.
 
While unseeded, the 17 year old Boris Becker was having a great run on grass that 1985 summer having won Queens (beating Cash and Kriek) and working his way through the Wimbledon draw. Had some tough battles along the way with Nystrom in Round 3 and Mayotte in Round 4, both 5 setters where Becker was on the brink of losing. Becker came into the final against 8th seed Kevin Curren who had taken out Edberg, McEnroe and Connors all in straight sets on the strength of hard serve & volley game. I was a little young at the time, but I would have thought Curren to be favorite going into that final. But Boris came out and broke the nervous Curren quickly and took set 1. After losing set 2 in tiebreak and down a break in the 3rd, Boris rallies for a break then takes tiebreak to win set. Then he breaks early in the 4th set and holds throughout, becoming the youngest and first unseeded champion at Wimbledon.

John McEnroe came into 1985 after his strongest year and maybe the best year in the history of tennis in 1984 with 84-3 record. Again, I was too young at the time but I would have to assume he was the favorite going into 1985 Wimbledon as the #1 ranked player and winner of three of the last four Wimbledons. After getting to the QFs, he is surprisingly bounced easily by Curren at 62 62 64. It appeared that the power game had finally caught up to Mac in this match and he acknowledged as much afterwards. But he would go on to have a good summer winning 2 tournaments in straights over Lendl before losing in US Open final to Lendl. Finishes the 1985 season with a 71-9 record and #2 ranking. McEnroe was never the same after his 6 month sabbatical to start 1986.

Question: If Mac somehow gets by Curren and gets to final, who would win Wimbledon in 1985?

Becker had a great tournament, but would he have been ready to beat established #1 and defending champion? Was he just fortunate enough to avoid some of the bigger name players in that draw? (i.e. Mac, Connors, Lendl). While Mac was not the same as in 1984, he still had a very good year and something left in tank that summer. Would he have held is nerves a little better than Curren did that final Sunday?

To answer my own question, I would still lean to Becker over McEnroe that day. Perhaps an historic 5 setter similar to their 1987 Davis Cup classic. I think he had too much going his way that fortnight, and his heart, toughness and ability to play well in the biggest moments would have persevered.

Interested in your thoughts? And technical assessment as well.
I would have Mac as the slight favorite in this hypothetical match. Mac was still playing some strong tennis in 85. Being a three time Wimb champ he would not have been intimidated by the 17 year old.
 
Tiriac said as much....he felt the psychologic challenge would have been much bigger facing one of the 2 recent champs...perhaps too much too soon.

I have to disagree with Tiriac here. Becker facing Curren means he had a much bigger chance of winning hence there was more pressure on him. But facing one of the 2 most domnating players since Borg would have meant more pressure for them since they are a facing a 17 year old nobody.

Would've been fun to see him play either Mac or Jimmy....probably would have been a better match than what we got.

Yes for sure. For some reason I think Becker would have beaten Mac because Becker would have been the strongest power player he ever faced until then and I also think Becker would have got under his skin. On the other side I can see Connors getting a little under Becker's skin due to his "dirty" game mentality.

The funny thing is Becker himself once said in an interview in the 90s that he feared McEnroe when he was 17.
 
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