Would Nadal have beaten Wawrinka at RG15 final?

Would Nadal have won RG15 if he beat Djokovic?

  • Yes; beats Stan to win

    Votes: 29 48.3%
  • No; Wawrinka beats him

    Votes: 13 21.7%
  • Would lose to Murray SF, not Wawrinka

    Votes: 18 30.0%

  • Total voters
    60

King No1e

Hall of Fame
#1
No fandom bias here, because I'm pretty sure RG15 hurts for every fan. Nadal's 5-peat ends, Djokovic misses CGS, Federer gets rolled by his pigeon.

If Nadal had beaten Djokovic again in 2015, would he have been the champion? How likely would it have been that Stan's game works as well against RG Nadal as it did against Djokovic?
 
#3
I think he would have if he could get to the final. It would mean his form is still good enough to get the job done in 4 or 5 sets.

Had they met in the quarter final, Stan would have won. Nadal just couldn't keep the ball in play much in that match. Every time he went for his big shots, he misfired even from very neutral positions.
 
#8
Lol. People already forgot how bad Nadal was PHYSICALLY in 2015. He looked totally gassed in the fourth set of his match against Sock but he somehow got away with that. Was physically done in the middle of the second set against Djokovic. No way Nadal was winning this tournament unless his toughest opponent in the tournament would be Kohlschreiber or something. Somehow Djokovic fans don't understand that they are bringing Djokovic down when they say that the worst ever Nadal would have beaten a player who was too good for peak Djokovic. (not talking about OP here).
 

Towny

Professional
#10
I doubt Nadal gets past Murray. He had already lost to Murray that clay season anyway. If he gets past Murray, he's not beating Stan. Stan was smacking winners from all over the place in the final. A better version of Nadal would chase them down; 2015 Nadal couldn't
 
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#13
I doubt Nadal gets past Murray. He had already lost to Murray that clay season anyway. If he gets passed Murray, he's not beating Stan. Stan was smacking winners from all over the place in the final. A better version of Nadal would chase them down; 2015 Nadal couldn't
Many times he lost before RG to certain opponents, only to steamrolle the same opponents at the Paris clay. Nadal at RG and Nadal outside RG even on his beloved clay are completely different players.;)
 

Yugram

Professional
#14
Well, another win over Joe Kovic probably would’ve given Nadal needed confidence, but I doubt his game would become much better.

Probably crushes Murray mentally in SF, but with the way Nadal was hitting his forehand in 2015, Stan would punish him every second rally.
 
#17
Being a good Nadal fan here, however I really believe we should not ever ask "IF" questions about tournaments like these. Because there's millions of combinations that could change everything.

Anyways , Answering your question; I think he would.
 
#18
This is a flawed question. There is no world where 2015 Nadal would have beaten Djokovic in the first place. If you mean if Djokovic withdrew or retired or something like that, then he probably would have lost to Murray.
 

Towny

Professional
#19
Many times he lost before RG to certain opponents, only to steamrolle the same opponents at the Paris clay. Nadal at RG and Nadal outside RG even on his beloved clay are completely different players.;)
True. Nadal over Bo5 is a different beast. But people made the same comments about Nadal playing Djokovic at RG 2015 after losing to him in MC. Many, including me, suspected Nadal at RG would prove to much for Nole that year, as he had been in 2014. I was wrong.

The reality is that we have Novak easily beating Nadal in the QF, going the distance with Murray in the SF and losing to Stan in the final. So unless you want to say that Djokovic played much worse in the QF than the later rounds or that Nadal played really bad against Novak and somehow wouldn't play badly against the others, it follows that Nadal would have likely lost to Murray, and definitely Stan.

Now, I do believe Novak was better in the QF than the later rounds. But not enough to justify the proposition that Nadal would have won the whole thing were Novak absent.
 
#21
True. Nadal over Bo5 is a different beast. But people made the same comments about Nadal playing Djokovic at RG 2015 after losing to him in MC. Many, including me, suspected Nadal at RG would prove to much for Nole that year, as he had been in 2014. I was wrong.

The reality is that we have Novak easily beating Nadal in the QF, going the distance with Murray in the SF and losing to Stan in the final. So unless you want to say that Djokovic played much worse in the QF than the later rounds or that Nadal played really bad against Novak and somehow wouldn't play badly against the others, it follows that Nadal would have likely lost to Murray, and definitely Stan.

Now, I do believe Novak was better in the QF than the later rounds. But not enough to justify the proposition that Nadal would have won the whole thing were Novak absent.
Nobody who really watched tennis in 2015 could expect that. Nadal was so physically weak that it was clear that Bo5 format was actually bad for him that year. He was gassed after a set and a half in that 1/4 final.
 
#22
2015 Nadal was awful. He almost certainly loses to Murray in the semis, if by some miracle he gets past Djokovic (Djokovic probably got a huge injury during the match in that case).
 

Towny

Professional
#29
Nobody who really watched tennis in 2015 could expect that. Nadal was so physically weak that it was clear that Bo5 format was actually bad for him that year. He was gassed after a set and a half in that 1/4 final.
I watched tennis in 2015. In 2014, Nadal had a terrible (for him):clay season up to RG. Lost in MC to Ferrer and Barcelona to Almagro. Lost Rome to Djokovic. Only really beat Nishikori in the Madris final because of Nishikori's injury. Yet he dominated RG. So I wasnt sure whether he would repeat the feat in 2015. Clearly, he didnt.

Edit: Also worth noting that 32.2% of posters voted for Rafa to win the match on a match thread poll. And some may have voted after the match started and Djokovic was clearly leading. So the original number may have been higher still
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/rg-qf-1-novak-djokovic-vs-6-rafael-nadal.534249/
 
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#30
I watched tennis in 2015. In 2014, Nadal had a terrible (for him):clay season up to RG. Lost in MC to Ferrer and Barcelona to Almagro. Lost Rome to Djokovic. Only really beat Nishikori in the Madris final because of Nishikori's injury. Yet he dominated RG. So I wasnt sure whether he would repeat the feat in 2015. Clearly, he didnt.
I wouldn't say he dominated RG in 2014, that was definitely his least impressive win there. Anyway, the difference is that as bad as Nadal was playing in 2014 his problems were not physical. He could still play long matches, so there was always the chance that he might improve. Just like in 2019 by the way. In 2015 on the other hand he was getting tired too fast and there was no way he can survive 7 matches in BO5 format unless his toughest opponent would be somebody like Kohlschreiber. And physical form is not something you can improve very fast.
 
#31
I watched tennis in 2015. In 2014, Nadal had a terrible (for him):clay season up to RG. Lost in MC to Ferrer and Barcelona to Almagro. Lost Rome to Djokovic. Only really beat Nishikori in the Madris final because of Nishikori's injury. Yet he dominated RG. So I wasnt sure whether he would repeat the feat in 2015. Clearly, he didnt.

Edit: Also worth noting that 32.2% of posters voted for Rafa to win the match on a match thread poll. And some may have voted after the match started and Djokovic was clearly leading. So the original number may have been higher still
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/rg-qf-1-novak-djokovic-vs-6-rafael-nadal.534249/
Well, there is no reasonable explanation to that. For me it was clear that the match is absolutely NID. The only chance for Nadal to win was to do that in straight sets in less than 2 hours. Once he lost the first set it was over.
 

Towny

Professional
#32
I wouldn't say he dominated RG in 2014, that was definitely his least impressive win there. Anyway, the difference is that as bad as Nadal was playing in 2014 his problems were not physical. He could still play long matches. Just like in 2019 by the way. In 2015 on the other hand he was getting tired too fast and there was no way he can survive 7 matches in BO5 format unless his toughest opponent would be somebody like Kohlschreiber.
Well he lost only 2 sets in 2014 RG. While it certainly wasnt his best run, it was still dominant.

And hindsight is a wonderful thing. It may seem obvious in retrospect that Nadal would lose, but it wasn't an open and shut case at the time, or else no one would have voted for Nadal to win. You obviously predicted he wouldn't, as did the majority, but I dont think it was completely obvious.

In any case, as per the subject of the thread, I dont think we are in disagreement. Nadal was not winning RG 2015, regardless of whether he played Djokovic or not
 
#33
I watched tennis in 2015. In 2014, Nadal had a terrible (for him):clay season up to RG. Lost in MC to Ferrer and Barcelona to Almagro. Lost Rome to Djokovic. Only really beat Nishikori in the Madris final because of Nishikori's injury. Yet he dominated RG. So I wasnt sure whether he would repeat the feat in 2015. Clearly, he didnt.
People doesn't give credit to the 2015 RG Nadal's conqueror only because his name is Novak Djokovic, and in correlation with the fact that Fedr couldn't do it himself.
Rafa was bad= Djokovic win is nothing special= never happened= Fedr vs Djokovic is still 0:0.
 
#38
No fandom bias here, because I'm pretty sure RG15 hurts for every fan. Nadal's 5-peat ends, Djokovic misses CGS, Federer gets rolled by his pigeon.

If Nadal had beaten Djokovic again in 2015, would he have been the champion? How likely would it have been that Stan's game works as well against RG Nadal as it did against Djokovic?
Every fan is a fan of either Nadal or Djokovic or Federer? I imagine that Wawrinka fans are delighted about RG15.
 
#43
People doesn't give credit to the 2015 RG Nadal's conqueror only because his name is Novak Djokovic, and in correlation with the fact that Fedr couldn't do it himself.
Rafa was bad= Djokovic win is nothing special= never happened= Fedr vs Djokovic is still 0:0.
People don’t give him that much credit because it really was the worst Nadal we’ve ever seen on clay. Any good player was going to take him out that year, so yeah, it might have been symbolic for Djokovic but that’s about it.
 
#46
Are you kidding? 2008 peak Nadal on clay beats any version of Stanimal ever created on clay. And he would have done it easily.
Of course he is kidding. It's lulz to posters like Lew II and Nadal_Django who believe Federer was at his peak from 14-present and was baby from 04-07 since tennis has evolved so much (LOL).

He is using the same logic to perhaps talk some sense into them. I have already given up.
 

Towny

Professional
#47
People doesn't give credit to the 2015 RG Nadal's conqueror only because his name is Novak Djokovic, and in correlation with the fact that Fedr couldn't do it himself.
Rafa was bad= Djokovic win is nothing special= never happened= Fedr vs Djokovic is still 0:0.
You may view it that way and of course, people do sometimes have ulterior motives, but Nadal was demonstrably poor at RG 2015 relatively speaking. 2015 was one of his worst ever seasons, winning 0 masters and only making 2 QF at the slams. It really wasn't as though Djokovic beat prime Rafa at RG. The same goes for Federer when he beat Djokovic at the AO in 2007 - I don't think we could possibly say that Djokovic was near-prime in that match so a win over him at the AO wasn't super impressive. He was clearly young and was far better the following year.
 
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