Would Novak have preferred to play Rafa?

Spencer Gore

Spencer Gore

Legend
On Djokovic's current form -and strange inability to get into any rhythm until he is down one or two sets would he have preferred to play Rafa in today's final? Kyrgios will try and race through his service games and there will be fewer long rallies than a Nadal match to help Novak find his rhythm. If he starts as badly as he has done in the last couple of matches, Djokovic could have a real struggle on his hands that could quickly run away from him -especially given his seemingly fragile mental state.

I actually have a feeling that Rafa would have won a final against this Djokovic but even so, on current form is it possible Novak may have preferred to play his old adversary? Better the devil you know?
 
No. Rafa has been playing too well this year. The way he beat Djokovic this year at RG is by playing more offensively than him which seemed to shock Djokovic. I don’t think anyone wants to play this version of Rafa this year. Also, Rafa will not shrink from the occasion of a Wimbledon final whereas there is a good chance that Krygios might.
 
Maybe he would be more pumped to win Wimby. This way he could feel Nick might have one trophy and given Nicks changed behaviour towards him, he might not play in full flight.
 
adil1972 said:
will fresh Kyrgios be able to defeat tired djok in tomorrow men final
Click to expand...
No.
no-let-me-think.gif
 
Spencer Gore said:
On Djokovic's current form -and strange inability to get into any rhythm until he is down one or two sets would he have preferred to play Rafa in today's final? Kyrgios will try and race through his service games and there will be fewer long rallies than a Nadal match to help Novak find his rhythm. If he starts as badly as he has done in the last couple of matches, Djokovic could have a real struggle on his hands that could quickly run away from him -especially given his seemingly fragile mental state.

I actually have a feeling that Rafa would have won a final against this Djokovic but even so, on current form is it possible Novak may have preferred to play his old adversary? Better the devil you know?
Click to expand...
No he wouldnt have preferred to play Rafa. He said it himself:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545380555239325701
 
tennis_pro said:
Based on what? Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on grass since 2008 and outside of clay since 2013. What he does on clay is meaningless.
Click to expand...

Nadal would have a had shot, but Djokovic would be favorite to win. I had it 55-45 in favor of Djokovic defeating Nadal and winning the title.

You are right about one thing, what Nadal does on clay, doesn't translate to what he will do to Djokovic outside of clay, since he has been out of his prime. This rivalry is very clearly defined right now by what surface they play on.
 
If this tournament was like any other year, I would have wanted Rafa to face Novak in the final. Djokovic is vulnerable right now and Nadal can get into his head with how clutch he has been this year.

Sadly, this year's edition is pointless. Politics killed Wimbledon this year. Nick and Novak are fighting for a huge paycheck tomorrow. Nick needs it more, so I hope he wins.
 
tennis_pro said:
Based on what? Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on grass since 2008 and outside of clay since 2013. What he does on clay is meaningless.
Click to expand...
Just a feeling. The same feeling I had at RG in 2021 that Djokovic would beat Nadal. A prediction that led to the usual LOLs from the usual suspects who said a Nadal victory on clay was a sure thing. I always listen to my gut, especially on the way to the bookies.
 
Marco Rotim said:
Djokovic said it before the tournament that he wants to face Nadal in the final, he knows he will win, is confident, a youngsters will never be good for Novak.

It is like Sampras in 2002 at the USO who would prefer Agassi there than a Hewitt, the youngster is a bad thing for the old player.
Click to expand...
Is 27 years old player still a youngster?
 
I will believe what Djokovic and Nadal clearly said , and not fan's assumption .

Djokovic said '' he is looking forward to meet Rafa for a revenge at WB final for the Paris defeat . "

Nadal said " he doesn't see himself winning against next Opponents ( Nick and Djokovic ) after being hampered with injury now " .
Nadal also said in the past that " he is not stupid enough to want to face Djokovic at slams " .

Maybe Rafa would have defeated him ,maybe not . I am only talking about what they said .
 
maratha_warrior said:
I will believe what Djokovic and Nadal clearly said , and not fan's assumption .

Djokovic said '' he is looking forward to meet Rafa for a revenge at WB final for the Paris defeat . "

Nadal said " he doesn't see himself winning against next Opponents ( Nick and Djokovic ) after being hampered with injury now " .
Nadal also said in the past that " he is not stupid enough to want to face Djokovic at slams " .

Maybe Rafa would have defeated him ,maybe not . I am only talking about what they said .
Click to expand...


Rafa would not have defeated him ever.

Problem is we live in hypotheticals, the fanbases think that if Nole is in a weak state of body compared to what he was 4-5 years ago then Nadal will be full fit like he was a few years ago, this itself is imaginary, Nadal is even older than Novak, why would Nadal be fit at this time of the year when Nole is not fit ?

Nadal's chance to beat Novak slipped permanently in 2018, he is never beating Nole on Grass ever, this even the players know.

I was 100% confident that if Rafa made the final then he would be straight setted by Novak, Nadal's serve doesn't have the juice to hold his own games vs Nole, but in Nick's case it is the opposite, thats why Nick is the threat we have all known, he is hitting 20-25 aces on an average, is ruthless.

The final will be tough and it can swing either ways depending on Nole's form, no the case with Nadal there, would have been an easy win.
 
Reason Nadal came to play Wimbledon despite him abdomen was not to beat Novak. He always knew he cannot win over Novak, but why he came ? He came because he knew he will beat the field if Novak is taken out by someone. Even in injured state he can beat mugs like Fritz, lol. So Nadal gambled over Nole's form and unfortunate for him it did not go well and Nole reached the semi final, so Nadal did not risk aggravating his injury, quit in time to prepare for USO. @maratha_warrior
 
Djokovic is going around gifting a set to anyone willing to take it. Sure he pulls it together to blow the opponent off the court after the gifting... But I'm sure Nadal is better at turning gifts into miraculous wins. I would have loved Nadal's chances, I'm fine with 50-50 odds.
 
Marco Rotim said:
Rafa would not have defeated him ever.

Problem is we live in hypotheticals, the fanbases think that if Nole is in a weak state of body compared to what he was 4-5 years ago then Nadal will be full fit like he was a few years ago, this itself is imaginary, Nadal is even older than Novak, why would Nadal be fit at this time of the year when Nole is not fit ?

Nadal's chance to beat Novak slipped permanently in 2018, he is never beating Nole on Grass ever, this even the players know.

I was 100% confident that if Rafa made the final then he would be straight setted by Novak, Nadal's serve doesn't have the juice to hold his own games vs Nole, but in Nick's case it is the opposite, thats why Nick is the threat we have all known, he is hitting 20-25 aces on an average, is ruthless.

The final will be tough and it can swing either ways depending on Nole's form, no the case with Nadal there, would have been an easy win.
Click to expand...

Yeah . I wanted Djokovic Nadal final tbh .
They have played 50 times and Djokovic knows how to play Nadal .
Djokovic is the best Grasscourter of last decade and he wouldn't be stressed or passive versus Rafa .
Ofcourse Nadal can also beat Djokovic on his best day but Djokovic is more probable to win on Hardcourt and Grass Slams after 2013 .

Novak doesn't know how to play Nick . They played 5 years back ..they never even practised together .
We don't know which version of Nick will come out today .
His game is totally ambigous . Either he will fold in easy 3-4 sets or be will blitz through his way and win the match in 3-4 sets .

He has one of the greatest serves , he has variety and suprise , he is fresh and young . He has ego and doesn't fear any player .

Djokovic vs Krgiois is now a totally surprise Match . Noone knows what comes .

Funny thing is , entire TTW wanted entertaining young guys to reach Slam finals and end duopoly of Big 3 . And when the guy enters Slam final , TTW is upset about it . Lol :-D
 
Last edited:
maratha_warrior said:
I will believe what Djokovic and Nadal clearly said , and not fan's assumption .

Djokovic said '' he is looking forward to meet Rafa for a revenge at WB final for the Paris defeat . "

Nadal said " he doesn't see himself winning against next Opponents ( Nick and Djokovic ) after being hampered with injury now " .
Nadal also said in the past that " he is not stupid enough to want to face Djokovic at slams " .

Maybe Rafa would have defeated him ,maybe not . I am only talking about what they said .
Click to expand...

Yes, well there is that.
 
Marco Rotim said:
Reason Nadal came to play Wimbledon despite him abdomen was not to beat Novak. He always knew he cannot win over Novak, but why he came ? He came because he knew he will beat the field if Novak is taken out by someone. Even in injured state he can beat mugs like Fritz, lol. So Nadal gambled over Nole's form and unfortunate for him it did not go well and Nole reached the semi final, so Nadal did not risk aggravating his injury, quit in time to prepare for USO. @maratha_warrior
Click to expand...

Personally , this is a very smart move from Nadal .
By withdrawing , He stopped the injury from eggravating further and also stopped Novak from gaining any mental superiority .

Nadal knows Djokovic is banned from US Open.. So that easily brings title no 23 and then he has 24th lined up in just 6 months at RG 2023 .
 
maratha_warrior said:
Personally , this is a very smart move from Nadal .
By withdrawing , He stopped the injury from eggravating further and also stopped Novak from gaining any mental superiority .

Nadal knows Djokovic is banned from US Open.. So that easily brings title no 23 and then he has 24th lined up in just 6 months at RG 2023 .
Click to expand...

Was that on purpose? :happydevil::laughing:
 
Marco Rotim said:
Djokovic said it before the tournament that he wants to face Nadal in the final, he knows he will win, is confident,
Click to expand...
You cannot "know" you will win a match that hasn't even started. Sorry, but no one is a lock for any Grand Slam final among Nadal and Djokovic, not even Nadal at RG. And their last match at WB in 2018 went to 5 sets with Nadal having two crucial break point in the 5th set. 2022 Djokovic is not playkng better than mid-2018 Djokovic at Wimbledon. Novak has lost multiple sets to Sinner, Norrie and Kwon, all inferior players than Nadal. In fact, Novak even played better the WB 2018 SF than the WB 2019 F, as he made 73 winners in the WB 2018 SF and only 54 winners in the WB 2019 F.

So no reason to conclude that Novak "knew" he would defeat Nadal, as he was never a lock to beat healthy Nadal in the WB final. He was the favorite, but Nadal would have had his chances and the match would have likely been very contested.
 
It would have been hard vs Nadal. The crowd would have been overwhelmingly for Nadal. Had Nadal made the final, he would've been very confident. Think how different their last seven months have been. I'd give Nadal a 51-49 edge. Small margins, but that's tennis.
Personally, I think this is the best outcome for Mr. Djokovic.
 
maratha_warrior said:
Personally , this is a very smart move from Nadal .
By withdrawing , He stopped the injury from eggravating further and also stopped Novak from gaining any mental superiority .

Nadal knows Djokovic is banned from US Open.. So that easily brings title no 23 and then he has 24th lined up in just 6 months at RG 2023 .
Click to expand...
Zverev, Alcaraz and Medvedev also play the USO. Medvedev almost beat Nadal in their last 2 Slam hard court meetings, Zverev is a beast on hard when focused, and Alcaraz's best surface is hard.

In the event Novak were not to participate at the USO, Nadal would not be a lock for the title.
 
Bartelby said:
I love the way people hand out slam titles based on personal passions. You'd need to spend all your time observing training and matches to have any informed viewpoint.
Click to expand...
That's an argumentum ad hominem, and thus a fallacy.

No matter how much of an "expert" in tennis a person is, their viewpoint can be completely wrong.
 
3 things make me think it would have been too close to call:
  1. Djokovic’s **** rally tolerance. Man has been in trouble against anyone capable of keeping a rally going for more than 6 shots
  2. Nadal starting to whack I/O and DTL forehands from the Sonego match onwards
  3. Hot outdoor conditions on a worn out baseline for the final
It would have been a fantastic battle between Djokovic’s superior serve + ROS and Nadal’s superior baseline game and overall variety on grass.
 
Sport said:
You cannot "know" you will win a match that hasn't even started. Sorry, but no one is a lock for any Grand Slam final among Nadal and Djokovic, not even Nadal at RG. And their last match at WB in 2018 went to 5 sets with Nadal having two crucial break point in the 5th set. 2022 Djokovic is not playkng better than mid-2018 Djokovic at Wimbledon. Novak has lost multiple sets to Sinner, Norrie and Kwon, all inferior players than Nadal. In fact, Novak even played better the WB 2018 SF than the WB 2019 F, as he made 73 winners in the WB 2018 SF and only 54 winners in the WB 2019 F.

So no reason to conclude that Novak "knew" he would defeat Nadal, as he was never a lock to beat healthy Nadal in the WB final. He was the favorite, but Nadal would have had his chances and the match would have likely been very contested.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that it is impossible that Nadal wins first 2 slams in the year and remains healthy for the second week of the 3rd slam, this has historically never happened even in his best year 2010, how can we assume at 36 he would be fit when Novak himself is looking worse than before? Age takes it toll, Nadal had the abdomen problems before the event began and everyone knew that, thats why Novak fanbase wanted Nadal in the final more than Kyrgios, this time of the year Nick in the second week means he is a legitimate threat. Nadal pulled out because he kinda knew he would not win vs Nick/Nole, I think Novak is also somewhat scared of Nick, lets see what happens in the final.
 
Spencer Gore said:
On Djokovic's current form -and strange inability to get into any rhythm until he is down one or two sets would he have preferred to play Rafa in today's final? Kyrgios will try and race through his service games and there will be fewer long rallies than a Nadal match to help Novak find his rhythm. If he starts as badly as he has done in the last couple of matches, Djokovic could have a real struggle on his hands that could quickly run away from him -especially given his seemingly fragile mental state.

I actually have a feeling that Rafa would have won a final against this Djokovic but even so, on current form is it possible Novak may have preferred to play his old adversary? Better the devil you know?
Click to expand...
No. Rafa is in Djokovics head as was seen in Paris by Novaks start. He was so nervous. Doesnt matter the surface if he starts like that in a Major final with Nadal match is over. Nadal will never choke.
kyrgios is one of the mentally weakest players in the history of global sport. He cannot handle pressure. At all. Novak knows he has the title. Everyone knows it. Kyrgios will fold. He will just be happy to be there.
 
jl809 said:
3 things make me think it would have been too close to call:
  1. Djokovic’s **** rally tolerance. Man has been in trouble against anyone capable of keeping a rally going for more than 6 shots
  2. Nadal starting to whack I/O and DTL forehands from the Sonego match onwards
  3. Hot outdoor conditions on a worn out baseline for the final
It would have been a fantastic battle between Djokovic’s superior serve + ROS and Nadal’s superior baseline game and overall variety on grass.
Click to expand...
Point 3 is the crucial one. In the heat Nadal would have worn Djokovic down. Its why Djokovic is tactically unsmart admitting in paris he prefers night conditionsand at W2018 wanting the roof closed. It gived a mental edge to Nadal if they play in hot weather.
 
Djokovic said in a pre-match interview that he wanted Nadal in the final so I think that answers your question.
 
No, for many reasons. Here are a few:

1. No other player in history has defeated more times than Nadal has. This means that Rafa, better than anybody, knows what to do and how to it in order to win against Novak.
2. Nadal has won 19 straight matches in Grand Slams and four of those have gone the distance. He may be 36 years old, but his stamina is still far better than the stamina of the younger players. His confidence after winning AO and RG is also very high.
3. Nadal is a much better tactician than Kyrgios. He also possesses incredible variety of shots.
4. Nobody, not even Djokovic, wants to be on the other side of the net when that FH DTL starts firing.
5. Nadal is much more "match ready" than Djokovic right now. Except that RG QF, Djokovic hasn't really been tested physically and mentally in all his Grand Slam matches this year. When playing Nadal, you know you have to be as focused all the time, because each lapse or drop of form will be punished. And frankly, while Nadal is perhaps the most focused, disciplined and intense player on court, Djokovic hasn't played anybody who is close to Rafa or who has pushed him to be 100% focused throughout the whole match. We saw how those lapses in the RG QF were instantly punished by Nadal.

While Djokovic would've probably been a small favorite had they met in the finals, I was very confident in Rafa and his ability to win. As a Nadal fan, I really wanted this match.
 
Sport said:
Zverev, Alcaraz and Medvedev also play the USO. Medvedev almost beat Nadal in their last 2 Slam hard court meetings, Zverev is a beast on hard when focused, and Alcaraz's best surface is hard.

In the event Novak were not to participate at the USO, Nadal would not be a lock for the title.
Click to expand...

Zverev won't be back to his best so soon . His injury was brutal . I expect him to be back fit and fine in 2023 .
Nadal took away Medvedev's soul at AO 2022 .
Next time both meet in slams , Meddy will fold meekly .

Alcaraz haven't met Nadal or Djokovic in slams yet . Noone knows how he plays against them .
He first needs to defeat sinner and Medvedev to actually meet Djokodal .

That leaves only Djokovic and Djokovic won't be able to play US Open .
 
Rafa was playing better in the second week off the ground than Djokovic. Djokos serving has also not been that impressive. Rafa would have had a shot; this isnt AO.
 
TTW, next time Nadal meets Djokovic at Wimbledon, USO, AO we dont need to have pointless thread. I can bet my money on Djokovic, can you on Nadal? ;)
 
vanioMan said:
No, for many reasons. Here are a few:

1. No other player in history has defeated more times than Nadal has. This means that Rafa, better than anybody, knows what to do and how to it in order to win against Novak.
2. Nadal has won 19 straight matches in Grand Slams and four of those have gone the distance. He may be 36 years old, but his stamina is still far better than the stamina of the younger players. His confidence after winning AO and RG is also very high.
3. Nadal is a much better tactician than Kyrgios. He also possesses incredible variety of shots.
4. Nobody, not even Djokovic, wants to be on the other side of the net when that FH DTL starts firing.
5. Nadal is much more "match ready" than Djokovic right now. Except that RG QF, Djokovic hasn't really been tested physically and mentally in all his Grand Slam matches this year. When playing Nadal, you know you have to be as focused all the time, because each lapse or drop of form will be punished. And frankly, while Nadal is perhaps the most focused, disciplined and intense player on court, Djokovic hasn't played anybody who is close to Rafa or who has pushed him to be 100% focused throughout the whole match. We saw how those lapses in the RG QF were instantly punished by Nadal.

While Djokovic would've probably been a small favorite had they met in the finals, I was very confident in Rafa and his ability to win. As a Nadal fan, I really wanted this match.
Click to expand...
Good points.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pedro94
Could Rafa have won 2016 French Open?
Replies
29
Views
3K
Breakpointerer
Breakpointerer
T
  • Poll Poll
Novak 2.0 vs Rafa
2
Replies
88
Views
7K
tenniselbow1
T
MeatTornado
How would Medvedev have done today?
Replies
25
Views
990
aldeayeah
aldeayeah
terribleIVAN
Would the Rafa from the first rd have beaten the Novak from the first rd ?
Replies
8
Views
687
blablavla
B
Hitman
Would Rafa have completed the NCYGS in AO 2011 if he played the final against Novak?
Replies
43
Views
2K
Mustard
Mustard
Back
Top