Would Stosur be nearly as good without all the technology?

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
so do you think Technology also allows Henin to produce an unnatural amount of kick and spin on her serves and forehands, or is it just Stosur?

Stosur has some secret technology that Henin does not have access to?

or does Henin lack the talent to take advantage of the technology?

2hbh players should not use modern technology?

especially not against Henin?
There's a difference between natural tennis talent and the ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Tennis should be about natural tennis ability and not your ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Just like swimming should be about your natural swimming ability and not your ability to maximize the use of a high-tech swimsuit. The International Swimming Federation agrees and have now banned those high-tech swimsuits.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I'll try once more. Even if I were to agree with your point that Stosur benefits more from modern technology than other female pros (which I don't), it's irrelevant because EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THE SAME TECHNOLOGY!
Hello? That's the problem. They shouldn't have access to it. No one should.
 

Tyrus

Professional
Its a put up or shut up sport, you have babolats available if you like that kind of stick, if not there are vast amounts of other rackets that every pro benefits from because they find the one that fits them.

Stop comparing baseball and tennis, they are two completely different sports, the term "Grand Slam" means something completely different!
 

himynameisNIKE

Professional
Hello? That's the problem. They shouldn't have access to it. No one should.

ok..now you're just being silly. This thread is now about ostriches
2d4bbm.jpg
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Exactly! Baseball wanted to keep the same size stadium so they stayed with wood racquets. If tennis wants to keep the court size the same, they should also stay with wood racquets. But since they are allowing all this modern technology, they should change the size of the court.

BTW, it's the modern technology that allows players to generate the huge amounts of spin to keep the ball in the same size court even when hitting hard.

I don't get what you're arguing. Why should tennis change the size of the court? You already have two equalizing factors in play -- power and spin, both as a result of modern technology. So I'd say the "natural talent" is still there, even with newer technology.. unless of course, you want to argue that moonballing and hitting flat is all what "natural talent" is all about?

It's one thing to claim that you hate Stosur's style of play; it's totally different (and unacceptable) to claim that only your preferred style of play is the right way to play tennis. If you want to watch top-spinless moonballing with hit with wooden rackets, then youtube is your friend.

apparently, they are doing something right in tennis: there is more money in tennis than there was in the day of wood... not everyone seems to endorse to your preferences in styles of play.
 

Maestro Nalbandian

Professional
There's a difference between natural tennis talent and the ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Tennis should be about natural tennis ability and not your ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Just like swimming should be about your natural swimming ability and not your ability to maximize the use of a high-tech swimsuit. The International Swimming Federation agrees and have now banned those high-tech swimsuits.

I thought Stosur is plenty talented. She not just a case of maximizing the use of modern equipment as you are implying. For all we know, Henin might be the one who's benefited the most from modern technology given her small physique.
 

Nadalfan89

Hall of Fame
Everyone has access to the same technology, which means everyone has to adapt to that technology by getting faster and stronger, thus the entire field goes up a notch and no one is left behind or is left with an unfair advantage due to "technology".

This is a stupid dicussion and you should feel stupid (and probably do) for starting it.
 

clover

Rookie
Every single thing in life evolves and becomes different, especially sports. You can not say that going from wood to "modern" tech is bad for the sport.

Athletes are getting bigger, stronger, and more fit because of "modern" work out technology. So according to your theory, it should not be okay.


I know this has been repeated a billion times, but everyone is adapting to the technology because it is open for each player.
 

fedfan08

Professional
I'd still rather watch what we have today than the moonball fests of the 70s/80s or the ACE/point lasts no more than 3 shots of the early to mid 90s.
 

cucio

Legend
There's a difference between the ability to maximize the use of old equipment and the ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Tennis should be about your ability to maximize the use of old equipment and not your ability to maximize the use of modern equipment.

Fixed.

This is an old discussion. Return to touch tennis or evolution(?) towards power tennis. There are merits to each side.

Manufacturers prefer the latter because hacks like us look less pathetic on a court with modern equipment and they can sell more. Better business = better for the sport? Again arguable.
 

jmverdugo

Hall of Fame
There's a difference between natural tennis talent and the ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Tennis should be about natural tennis ability and not your ability to maximize the use of modern equipment. Just like swimming should be about your natural swimming ability and not your ability to maximize the use of a high-tech swimsuit. The International Swimming Federation agrees and have now banned those high-tech swimsuits.

I thought tennis was about been the last one to put the ball in play ... boy have been doing all wrong!.
 

BobFL

Hall of Fame
I want to believe that OP was extremely bored when he started this discussion. It is surreal how unnecessary and meaningless this topic is.

Maybe Schumacher should have driven this since he was using new technologies better than all other guys?

oldtimers_5.jpg
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I don't get what you're arguing. Why should tennis change the size of the court? You already have two equalizing factors in play -- power and spin, both as a result of modern technology. So I'd say the "natural talent" is still there, even with newer technology.. unless of course, you want to argue that moonballing and hitting flat is all what "natural talent" is all about?

It's one thing to claim that you hate Stosur's style of play; it's totally different (and unacceptable) to claim that only your preferred style of play is the right way to play tennis. If you want to watch top-spinless moonballing with hit with wooden rackets, then youtube is your friend.

apparently, they are doing something right in tennis: there is more money in tennis than there was in the day of wood... not everyone seems to endorse to your preferences in styles of play.
There was a lot more to tennis than moonballing during the wood era. Players hit with topspin, just not the ridiculous amounts which makes the ball drop in at the last second as you get with poly strings and lightweight, big-headed, stiff graphite racquets. Players also hit with slice, underspin, flat, all kinds of variety. They also served and volleyed a lot. There was a lot more strategy and point construction in the game than just mindlessly hitting big topspin shots from the baseline all day long until your opponent misses one like we have today.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I want to believe that OP was extremely bored when he started this discussion. It is surreal how unnecessary and meaningless this topic is.

Maybe Schumacher should have driven this since he was using new technologies better than all other guys?

oldtimers_5.jpg
Yeah, but Shumacher was still driving a car and not one of these:

standard.jpg


Besides, how fast and powerful your car is is a HUGE part of auto racing. That's why they have different classes of cars for different auto races. So you're just agreeing with me that tennis has become more about the equipment than the player.
 

Matmac

Rookie
Besides, how fast and powerful your car is is a HUGE part of auto racing. That's why they have different classes of cars for different auto races. So you're just agreeing with me that tennis has become more about the equipment than the player.

Well, there's your business plan. Tell Henin how that talentless Stosur is stealing her titles and get her to switch to your wooden racquet league. You should have no problem, your argument is very convincing. Good luck!
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
After watching that match, it's safe to argue stosur right now has the best fh in the WTA, definitely the best inside out fh.
 

BobFL

Hall of Fame
Besides, how fast and powerful your car is is a HUGE part of auto racing. That's why they have different classes of cars for different auto races. So you're just agreeing with me that tennis has become more about the equipment than the player.

Wow, you use false logic and you conclude that I agree with you. Your comment is telling me that you know nothing about formula1 so I will not go there. I do not want to be accused of using "superior knowledge".

For the record, I am not agreeing with you. Stosur beat her fair and square. Henin looks petrified on the court and she is vulnerable.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
You timing is off.

You shouldn't have waited until Stosur decided to pick up Babolat - instead you should have campaigned for the banning of Rene Lacoste or Arthur Ashe or Jimmy Connors for ditching their wood...

Your last chance to complain was I think in 1981 where Lendl showed up at Roland Garros with his hightech Adidas (or whatever it was) while at the other end of the court was Borg still holding on to his woody Donnay.
 

namelessone

Legend
God this is a moronic thread. Stosur beats the one-handed Henin and boo-hoo. This reminds me of the "Nadal would be nothing without his rocket launcher" thread.

Why doesn't everyone get babolat if it is the magic racket? It's not like they can't afford them. And since a lot of elitists around here think today's players are usually less talented than the past players(cause those guys had wood rackets),why don't these primitive tennis players all use babolat's rackets,which would automatically make them super tennis players,even though they are crap.

Sure,some players have switched rackets over time but I think they know their needs best when they choose one racket over another.

Take the top20 in men,quite a large sample size:

Wilson has 2 players(fed,jdmp).
Babolat has 4 players(nadal,roddick,tsonga,gonzalez,rafa and andy having long standing contracts)
Dunlop has 3 players(davydenko,verdasco,berdych)
Prince has 4 players(JCF,monfils,isner,ferrer)
Head has 6 players(murray,soderling,cilic,youzhny,ljubicic,djokovic)
Bosworth has 1(stephanek)

Damn,seems like prince and head are the magic rackets on tour.
 

RyanRF

Professional
Federer would need a day to adjust to a wood racquet. It would take Stosur the rest of her career to adjust and even then she would not be nearly the same level player she is now.

Phew, thank God you've provided the proof to support this claim.

....
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Watching Stosur play, it became painfully obvious to me that her entire game is based upon taking full advantage of all the modern racquet and string technology available to her. The amount of kick and spin she gets on her serves and forehands is ridiculous. It's like watching a Babolat racquet and poly strings play tennis and not a human being play. She couldn't come anywhere close to playing like that with a wood racquet and gut strings.

If they could ban spaghetti strings back in the 70's, why can't they ban these modern racquets and strings that are distorting the sport of tennis and making natural tennis talent less important than the ability to maximize the use of all this modern equipment? So instead of determining who the best marksman is, it's like seeing who's better at using the biggest and most powerful laser-guided rifle.

As far as I'm concerned, Federer is the only top player that uses a "legitimate" racquet. His racquet is based on 30 year-old technology and is the closest in weight and size to a wood racquet. Everyone else is using modern technology to substitute or enhance their lack of natural tennis talent, and to me, that's just not fair and is like cheating. I mean, they don't let boxers use brass knuckles, do they?

If Fed's racket is based on 30year old technology why did Wilson take about 2 years to develop it especially for Fed if the 'old' 30 year old technology was already developed? :-?

If New technology was banned we'd have to watch Fed struggle to play 2 good matches in a row like he used to with his old 85" racket before he upgraded to his custom designed new technology racket and modern strings. There's enough shanking now as it is without reverting back to old technology.:)
 

LameTennisPlayer

Professional
Does Stosur hit a one-handed backhand? Is it easier to handle a high kicking/bouncing ball above your shoulder with a one-handed or a two-handed backhand?

Stosur would have to change her game completely because she couldn't generate the same amount of kick/spin with a wood racquet and gut strings no matter how long and hard she tried.

neither would u, nor anyone else
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Wow, you use false logic and you conclude that I agree with you. Your comment is telling me that you know nothing about formula1 so I will not go there. I do not want to be accused of using "superior knowledge".
Is a Formula One car the same as a NASCAR Stock Car? No? Do you think that's why they race in different events? That's my point!
For the record, I am not agreeing with you. Stosur beat her fair and square. Henin looks petrified on the court and she is vulnerable.
Yes, she did, because the rules currently allow the use of modern equipment, just like the rules in the 2008 Beijing Olympics allowed the use of high-tech swimsuits. The International Swimming Federation has since wised up and now bans those swimsuits because it became a race of who's got the better swimsuit and less who's got the better strokes. The International Tennis Federation should wise up as well.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
You timing is off.

You shouldn't have waited until Stosur decided to pick up Babolat - instead you should have campaigned for the banning of Rene Lacoste or Arthur Ashe or Jimmy Connors for ditching their wood...

Your last chance to complain was I think in 1981 where Lendl showed up at Roland Garros with his hightech Adidas (or whatever it was) while at the other end of the court was Borg still holding on to his woody Donnay.
Have you ever played with a T-2000 or an Arthur Ashe Comp? They played worse than most wood racquets. That's why most people, including almost all pros, stayed with using wood racquets even though those racquets were on the market for a long time. Those racquets were not light weight, didn't have big heads (they were about the same size as wood), and they didn't use poly strings.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
If Fed's racket is based on 30year old technology why did Wilson take about 2 years to develop it especially for Fed if the 'old' 30 year old technology was already developed? :-?

If New technology was banned we'd have to watch Fed struggle to play 2 good matches in a row like he used to with his old 85" racket before he upgraded to his custom designed new technology racket and modern strings. There's enough shanking now as it is without reverting back to old technology.:)
The BLX90 and K90 are based on the PS 6.0 85 from 30 years ago and use the same technology. They play nearly the same
 

Joeyg

Semi-Pro
Watching Stosur play, it became painfully obvious to me that her entire game is based upon taking full advantage of all the modern racquet and string technology available to her. The amount of kick and spin she gets on her serves and forehands is ridiculous. It's like watching a Babolat racquet and poly strings play tennis and not a human being play. She couldn't come anywhere close to playing like that with a wood racquet and gut strings.

If they could ban spaghetti strings back in the 70's, why can't they ban these modern racquets and strings that are distorting the sport of tennis and making natural tennis talent less important than the ability to maximize the use of all this modern equipment? So instead of determining who the best marksman is, it's like seeing who's better at using the biggest and most powerful laser-guided rifle.

As far as I'm concerned, Federer is the only top player that uses a "legitimate" racquet. His racquet is based on 30 year-old technology and is the closest in weight and size to a wood racquet. Everyone else is using modern technology to substitute or enhance their lack of natural tennis talent, and to me, that's just not fair and is like cheating. I mean, they don't let boxers use brass knuckles, do they?

Bored this morning? Missing the "Rants and Raves" section a bit?
 

HookEmJeff

Semi-Pro
The BLX90 and K90 are based on the PS 6.0 85 from 30 years ago and use the same technology. They play nearly the same

On a related note, why don't we all go back to driving our cars from the 1970s and do away with air conditioning. Tell Kobe Bryant to go back to wearing Chuck Taylor's and see if he can get off the ground the same way.

Sports evolve. Athletes evolve. Equipment... evolves. There's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy the spectacle and amazing speed with which these guys and girls are playing.

Sam Stosur has great technique and spring on her serve and has a very wristy ground game. She'd be getting good top on those balls with a Wilson Pro Staff, too. Besides, you can tell she's in the gym building her bod. Put her next to Chris Evert 1975 and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.


Jeff
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
neither would u, nor anyone else
That's a good thing. People shouldn't be forced to hit every high-bouncing topspin ball from over their heads. That's why the best up-and-coming pros are mostly like 6' 4" and taller, so they can hit those high-bouncing topspin balls. Pretty soon tennis is going to look like the NBA and short people will have to find another sport to play. Is that what people want tennis to become?
 

dlesser13

Rookie
Might I ask what racket and string combination YOU play with? It would be very hypocritical of you if you said something along the lines of anything other then a prostaff variant and poly strings.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
On a related note, why don't we all go back to driving our cars from the 1970s and do away with air conditioning. Tell Kobe Bryant to go back to wearing Chuck Taylor's and see if he can get off the ground the same way.

Sports evolve. Athletes evolve. Equipment... evolves. There's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy the spectacle and amazing speed with which these guys and girls are playing.

Sam Stosur has great technique and spring on her serve and has a very wristy ground game. She'd be getting good top on those balls with a Wilson Pro Staff, too. Besides, you can tell she's in the gym building her bod. Put her next to Chris Evert 1975 and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.


Jeff
Air conditioning doesn't help a race car driver win races.

Watching Stosur play, it almost looks like she's using spaghetti strings. Her forehands can hit on the service line and then kick all the way and hit the back wall. That is a ridiculous amount of topspin thanks to her poly strings and lightweight, big-headed Babolat racquet. They banned spaghetti strings 30 years ago for the same reasons, why can't they ban equipment that generates an unnatural amount of spin today?

Stosur can work out in the gym all she wants, but she isn't going to produce the same amount of spin without her modern racquet and strings. If so, bodybuilders and football players would be cleaning up on the pro tour.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Might I ask what racket and string combination YOU play with? It would be very hypocritical of you if you said something along the lines of anything other then a prostaff variant and poly strings.
I use either a wood racquet or a K90. And I stay as far away from poly strings as I physically can.
 

Autodidactic player

Professional
After watching that match, it's safe to argue stosur right now has the best fh in the WTA, definitely the best inside out fh.

You mean that the OP hasn't convinced you that Stosur's racket hits the best forehand in women's tennis? Samantha's just lucky to be going along for the ride. :roll:
 

precision2b

Semi-Pro
=BreakPoint;4708234]Watching Stosur play, it became painfully obvious to me that her entire game is based upon taking full advantage of all the modern racquet and string technology available to her. The amount of kick and spin she gets on her serves and forehands is ridiculous. It's like watching a Babolat racquet and poly strings play tennis and not a human being play.

They all have access to the same equipment...

If they could ban spaghetti strings back in the 70's, why can't they ban these modern racquets and strings that are distorting the sport of tennis and making natural tennis talent less important than the ability to maximize the use of all this modern equipment? So instead of determining who the best marksman is, it's like seeing who's better at using the biggest and most powerful laser-guided rifle.

The best players will rise to the top...
 

WhiteStripes

Semi-Pro
What I find a little ironic about the original post is that the Pure Storm that Stosur supposedly uses leans more towards old-school than most of the other racquets out there. Actually, being an old N90 user (and have tested w/ the K90 and the BLX 90), the feel of the Pure Storm/Tour actually feels more like many old, flexy 80s graphite sticks to me because it has quite a bit more give/softness and flex compared to the PS line, which is much more raw and stiff. There are many more racquets out there by Babolat and others to direct hate to as epitomizing the "modern" game. It's not like the Pure Storm has some radical, weird aerodynamic shaped beam like the Aeropro Drive, or some super-open string pattern compared to the 16x18 in the PS line. It's a straight box-beam w/ a 16x20 pattern. The strings probably play much more of a role in increasing spin on Stosur's strokes than the racquet, but it's mostly technique and athletic ability, especially on her kick serves, that gets Stosur all that spin.
 
D

Deleted member 25923

Guest
Are you just mad that someone with a onehander got beaten on their favorite surface? If Henin's backhand is so good, why didn't she take it off the rise? It's her choice to use a onehanded backhand at her height.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
They all have access to the same equipment...
Yes, they do. And all swimmers had access to the same high-tech swimsuits at the last Olympics - now they don't. All tennis players had access to spaghetti strings back in the late-70's - now they don't. Ask Vilas if he thinks they should have banned spaghetti strings.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Are you just mad that someone with a onehander got beaten on their favorite surface? If Henin's backhand is so good, why didn't she take it off the rise? It's her choice to use a onehanded backhand at her height.
If that were so easy to do, Federer would never lose to Nadal on clay.
 

clover

Rookie
Is a Formula One car the same as a NASCAR Stock Car? No? Do you think that's why they race in different events? That's my point!

Wow. You are not looking at the obvious and completely missing the point!

Do you not think that the cars in NASCAR have evolved? Do you not think they got faster? Yes there are different events, but in each and every event, don't you think that those cars got faster and more efficient because of newer technology?


Please stop arguing about it, you are getting no where.
 
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