Would win a slam in any other era ...

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
For quite a bit of time, I have been trying to find ways to see if a player is at Grand slam winning level. And this is what I have deduced.

  1. A player will reach slam winning level when his physicality is up to it.
  2. When return game is passing at least minimum criteria.
  3. When his serve improves.
  4. When his +1 aggression improves.

1 thing I have seen is when a player is at very high level throughout the year, he is also huge threat at slams. But there are exceptions which I will try to discuss with time.

When a player is building up his skills, as he reaches maturing age physically, he will trade all out attacking game for increase in movement and stamina. Consistency is much bigger. As it happens there is generally rise in number of breaks of serves.

Breaks of serve is generally how big is your game after serves are in play. When a player matures physically, he is able to win more points on returns in play.
But you need to get returns back in play first. This is what maturing does, players learn how to return serves for maximum aggression to consistency ratio. As player matures, they go for more consistency on the return.
To me, return game is not just return, but its entire game from groundstrokes to dropshots, slices net game everything.

Second is serving. Serving is far too simplistic. You get better at it with repetition. Higher first serves in %, higher accuracy are critical.
But then there is higher serve +1 aggression as well. Greatest of the players at any season are mostly great at +1 aggression as well.
To me, service game can be heavily influenced by serve and +1 agression.

The mental stuff is secondary to me but these three things, getting fitter and getting first serves in better and having potent +1 are far more important.

With that said and going through early 2000s to now, there is a theme in great players dominating. I think this should be same for pre 2000s as well but may need some tweaking due to surface differences.

If your hold % and break % in season add up to 115, you are very strong contenders of winning slams and if you are not winning them, it is very likely due to competition or partly injuries.
This formula will give both holds and breaks adequate weights.
If your hold and break % in season doesn't even add up to 110, its very unlikely that you are winning slams.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
1st case I will try to take is Jannik Sinner.
Sinner came on the scene in 2019 but he was just 18 years old then. Physically weak, serve very weak.
In 2020 he made some improvement. But his serve was weak and +1 aggression was inconsistent.

It was only 2022 that held 83.4% and broken 26.5% to reach 109.9 aggregate. This is just meeting bare minimum of stats but he probably could have lucked out a USopen if he beat Carlos, and Tiafoe and Ruud. A tall task for 21 year old Sinner.

By 2023, Sinner had amassed enough stamina and serve was good enough that he could win a slam.
87.3 holds and 28.6 breaks aggregated solid 115.9. He was legit competition to win slams. We can say by 2023 Sinner was ready while before 2023, his body did not allow him to be a slam contender at all. Maybe in 2022 he was marginal contender. But that would have needed a lot of luck.

Sinner's improvement in serve was remarkable but he also retooled his game to early attack +1 and his body filled out.

 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Now taking another example of a guy who may challenge for slams in 2025, we can see Ben Shelton.

Ben Shelton started his career at 2022 at age 18 just like Sinner. But he is not tracking towards slam winning success as of now.

His hold % went from 84.3 % in 2023 to 88.2 in 2023
But return went from 16.1 % back to 15.1 % in 2024.
That means he is aggregating just 100.4 or barely winning 50% of the games today.

He will have to improve his return game drastically to have any chance to win a slam.

Ben Shelton just wins 41.5% of returns in play. This is among the lowest winning % on the tour in last year.


Ben Shelton may look very intimidating on his own serve but as far as returning is concerned he is so behind that it becomes impossible to contend for slams.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Going back past 25 years and checking the aggregate of slam winners in that particular year I see this.

YearAORGWimbyUSO
2000112.7110.6110.1107.1
2001116.3112.8100.8116.2
2002103.6103.9113.3105.2
2003120.1105.3117.3112.4
2004122.1105.5122.1122.1
2005108.3122119.9119.9
2006121.8115.4121.8121.8
2007117.8118.8117.8117.8
2008116.9121.7121.7116.2
2009117.3114.6114.6111.4
2010116.5120.2120.2120.2
2011125.2117.8125.2125.2
2012121.9125.5116.9114.5
2013121.2121.8115.7121.8
2014107.7120.2120.9107.4
2015123.9107.4123.9123.9
2016120.3120.3119.2109.5
2017118122.5118122.5
2018114.9123.3117.5117.5
2019120.3125.6120.3125.6
2020119.1121.8X110.6
2021121.4121.4121.4118.4
2022114.4114.4116.4115.3
2023117.8117.8116.3117.8
2024119.6118.1118.1119.6
 
Last edited:

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
In last 99 slams, only 12 times a player has not aggregated at least 110. They are

Safin USO 2000
Ivanisevic Wimby 2001
Johansson AO 2002
Albert Costa RG 2002
Sampras USO 2002
Ferrero RG 2003
Gaudio RG 2004
Safin AO 2005
Cilic USO 2014
Wawrinka AO 2014
Wawrinka RG 2015
Wawrinka USO 2016 (barely).
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Wimbledon is strongest slam of all for sure. There are zero fluke wins here. Even if Ivanisevic won it in 2001, he is miraculous story.

Crown of all slams for sure.

wimbledon-2016-live-scoreboard-scores-tuesday-schedule-bracket-draw-matches-winners-mens-womensjpg_1pfn31238grmr1915emvgf56mp.jpg
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
David Ferrer did reach 115+ for 2 seasons
Aggregated 116.1 in 2012
Aggregated 116.9 in 2013

He was playing well but when even 121+ Djokovic nets just 1 slam, the competition is ridiculously high.


 

GRASScaraz

Hall of Fame
Going back past 25 years and checking the aggregate of slam winners in that particular year I see this.

YearAORGWimbyUSO
2000112.7110.6110.1107.1
2001116.3112.8100.8116.2
2002103.6103.9113.3105.2
2003120.1105.3117.3112.4
2004122.1105.5122.1122.1
2005108.3122119.9119.9
2006121.8115.4121.8121.8
2007117.8118.8117.8117.8
2008116.9121.7121.7116.2
2009117.3114.6114.6111.4
2010116.5120.2120.2120.2
2011125.2117.8125.2125.2
2012121.9125.5116.9114.5
2013121.2121.8115.7121.8
2014107.7120.2120.9107.4
2015123.9107.4123.9123.9
2016120.3120.3119.2109.5
2017118122.5118122.5
2018114.9123.3117.5117.5
2019120.3125.6120.3125.6
2020119.1121.8X110.6
2021121.4121.4121.4118.4
2022114.4114.4116.4115.3
2023117.8117.8116.3117.8
2024119.6118.1118.1119.6
So basically Wawrinka is the expection to your rule
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
So basically Wawrinka is the expection to your rule
Wawrinka and Cilic both. They got very hot at the right time but could have been gone.

If you recall in 2016 Wawa was match point down in USOpen and 2014 he faced Nadal vs whom he hadn't taken a set ever.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
RankPlayerServe ImpactServe in Play W%Total Serve ptsReturn in playReturn in play W%Return ptsTotal Pts
1Medvedev36.658.673.752473.54936.01554.8837
2Zverev3856.372.90670.548.434.12253.514
3Cilic38.356.473.098864.649.231.783252.441
4Davydenko28.254.667.402871.851.236.761652.0822
5Nishikori30.35770.02965.352.234.086652.0578
6Wawrinka35.855.671.495269.346.131.947351.72125
7Tsonga38.456.673.265667.644.530.08251.6738
8Berdych35.857.372.586665.945.329.852751.21965
9Roddick42.653.773.42386643.528.7151.0669
10Nalbandain26.753.866.13546851.835.22450.6797
11Ferrer25.454.465.982470.849.334.904450.4434




Nalbandian and Ferrer come at absolute Bottom of pts W% with Roddick much closer to them. Zverev is a total mug to not have a slam by now. While Wawrinka is pretty damn lucky to break out of this group and win 3 slams.
 

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
RankPlayerServe ImpactServe in Play W%Total Serve ptsReturn in playReturn in play W%Return ptsTotal Pts
1Medvedev36.658.673.752473.54936.01554.8837
2Zverev3856.372.90670.548.434.12253.514
3Cilic38.356.473.098864.649.231.783252.441
4Davydenko28.254.667.402871.851.236.761652.0822
5Nishikori30.35770.02965.352.234.086652.0578
6Wawrinka35.855.671.495269.346.131.947351.72125
7Tsonga38.456.673.265667.644.530.08251.6738
8Berdych35.857.372.586665.945.329.852751.21965
9Roddick42.653.773.42386643.528.7151.0669
10Nalbandain26.753.866.13546851.835.22450.6797
11Ferrer25.454.465.982470.849.334.904450.4434




Nalbandian and Ferrer come at absolute Bottom of pts W% with Roddick much closer to them. Zverev is a total mug to not have a slam by now. While Wawrinka is pretty damn lucky to break out of this group and win 3 slams.
How is Thiems not on here?
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
How is Thiems not on here?
Completely forgot. Adding Thiem as well.



Let's first start with Gods.

RankPlayerServe ImpactServes in play W%Total Serve W%Return in playRiP W%Total Return W%Total
AFederer40.26076.0869.150.935.171955.62595
BNadal29.659.271.276873.750.937.513354.39505
CDjokovic3459.173.00670.752.537.117555.06175



RankPlayerServe ImpactServe in Play W%Total Serve ptsReturn in playReturn in play W%Return ptsTotal Pts
1Medvedev36.658.673.752473.54936.01554.8837
2Zverev3856.372.90670.548.434.12253.514
3Murray32.656.470.613673.448.135.305452.9595
4Thiem34.557.171.900569.748.133.525752.7131
5Cilic38.356.473.098864.649.231.783252.441
6Davydenko28.254.667.402871.851.236.761652.0822
7Nishikori30.35770.02965.352.234.086652.0578
8Wawrinka35.855.671.495269.346.131.947351.72125
9Tsonga38.456.673.265667.644.530.08251.6738
10Berdych35.857.372.586665.945.329.852751.21965
11Roddick42.653.773.42386643.528.7151.0669
12Nalbandain26.753.866.13546851.835.22450.6797
13Ferrer25.454.465.982470.849.334.904450.4434



Sorry Andy, the last 6 years reduced his stats by a lot.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
In last 99 slams, only 12 times a player has not aggregated at least 110. They are

Safin USO 2000
Ivanisevic Wimby 2001
Johansson AO 2002
Albert Costa RG 2002
Sampras USO 2002
Ferrero RG 2003
Gaudio RG 2004
Safin AO 2005
Cilic USO 2014
Wawrinka AO 2014
Wawrinka RG 2015
Wawrinka USO 2016 (barely).

Funny that many/all of these are regarded as flukes in hindsight
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
@nolefam_2024 This is an amazing stat

Casper Ruud and Jack Draper are definitely in the second tier along with Medvedev. It's interesting, Brandon Nakashima has also had a few decent runs at the Slam and he does pretty well in both categories as well.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
The Sampras, Safin, Wawrinka and Ferrero matches weren't flukes.
Sampras saved match points vs Fed in 05
Wawrinka saved match points vs Evans in 2016

Yes they are no flukes going through greats. But if the matches happened again , not sure where the cookie will crumble.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
The Sampras, Safin, Wawrinka and Ferrero matches weren't flukes.

They weren't?

Sampras was the 17th seed and had been beaten soundly in the previous two finals by Safin and Hewitt. That's a bit fluky

And Wawrinka was never anyone's idea of a guy who could go through the two greatest players ever to collect 3 Slams. He never got to #1 and was a pretty late bloomer. His tournament haul is much smaller than Murray's but people still put him above Andy...none of whose victories appear on this list
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
They weren't?

Sampras was the 17th seed and had been beaten soundly in the previous two finals by Safin and Hewitt. That's a bit fluky

And Wawrinka was never anyone's idea of a guy who could go through the two greatest players ever to collect 3 Slams. He never got to #1 and was a pretty late bloomer. His tournament haul is much smaller than Murray's but people still put him above Andy...none of whose victories appear on this list

I don't see a player "fluking" three times. He was a late bloomer, but so was Medvedev. In both cases, their games evolved for them to become competitive.
 
Top