Would you rather be Ivanisevic or Courier?

[ScentOfDefeat]

I'm surprised so many people chose Courier.
I shouldn't, really, because this is a very numbers-centric forum.

 

[Steve0904]

I'm surprised so many people chose Courier.
I shouldn't, really, because this is a very numbers-centric forum.

I didn't actually vote because I do think this is a tough pick and a good thread. Obviously Courier has the numbers, but Goran's Wimbledon will live in memory forever, much more so than any of Courier's wins. The sentimental part of me values the emotions behind Goran's win very highly.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

[Sorry guys, I just noticed I posted this in the wrong section. Mods: feel free to move it to FPPT]

As a huge fan of "lesser" players like Rafter and Ivanisevic, and therefore with no vested interest in any GOAT debate, I always find it interesting to compare careers where one player is undoubtedly more successful than the other (Courier obviously had a better career than Ivanisevic) BUT where this simple fact doesn't tell the whole story.

Courier won 4 Slams and was number 1 in the world, yet he hails from a country where so many players have been successful (more successful than he was) that his legacy is somewhat overshadowed.

Ivanisevic's only major title came at Wimbledon - the tournament where he had lost three times in the final before - in an absolutely epic tournament and final, and that title alone probably meant a whole lot more - for him and for many of his fans - than multiple titles routinely won by all-time greats.

Who would you rather be in this case: the most successful player of the two (who's but a footnote in his country's tennis history), or the tennis legend of Croatia who won one of the most extraordinary Slam finals in the modern game?

This is, of course, just an example of an exercise that can be done with any other pair of players. So if any of you have other examples of this you'd like to share, please feel free to do it!

So basically would you rather be Roddick or Murray.

In all seriousness I find players who are the best of their country (even just at the time) pretty interesting.

I thought the surge of Moroccan players at the top of the game was quite entertaining back in the day. They were all very talented guys.

Then again even Schuletter was kind of interesting given he was the Kevin Anderson of the early 2000s.

 

[Mainad]

It strikes me that Wimbledon may be responsible for more emotional wins than any of the other Slams. I think particularly of 17 year old Becker in 1985, Cash initiating the tradition of the long climb to celebrate with his team in 1987, Goran finally clinching it in 2001 on his very last chance or 2013 with Murray ending the 77 year drought of male British champions.

Does anybody else think that Wimbledon has thrown up more emotional wins that resonate with fans down the years than any other Slam?

 

[Steve0904]

It strikes me that Wimbledon may be responsible for more emotional wins than any of the other Slams. I think particularly of 17 year old Becker in 1985, Cash initiating the tradition of the long climb to celebrate with his team in 1987, Goran finally clinching it in 2001 on his very last chance or 2013 with Murray ending the 77 year drought of male British champions.

Does anybody else think that Wimbledon has thrown up more emotional wins that resonate with fans down the years than any other Slam?

Yes, because Wimbledon has always been the most prestigious slam even though they are technically "equal" today. Wimbledon was, and still is the one that most (not all) players want the most The AO doesn't have as much history so that one is out of the running basically, though my biased self will always love AO 2017.

RG has a few because it was the last piece of the career slam for many. Federer, Agassi, and Djokovic, and of course Yannick Noah. At the USO, maybe Sampras in 2002? Roddick was pretty happy in 2003 as well.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

Goran made 6 million more in a rise money so him

 

[Mainad]

Yes, because Wimbledon has always been the most prestigious slam even though they are technically "equal" today. Wimbledon was, and still is the one that most (not all) players want the most The AO doesn't have as much history so that one is out of the running basically, though my biased self will always love AO 2017.

RG has a few because it was the last piece of the career slam for many. Federer, Agassi, and Djokovic, and of course Yannick Noah. At the USO, maybe Sampras in 2002? Roddick was pretty happy in 2003 as well.

Thinking of Goran's emotional win on his 4th and last attempt makes it all the more sadder for me that Roddick couldn't manage to do the same on his last attempt in 09 especially when he came so damned close!

 

[travlerajm]

Thinking of Goran's emotional win on his 4th and last attempt makes it all the more sadder for me that Roddick couldn't manage to do the same on his last attempt in 09 especially when he came so damned close!

He married Brooklyn Decker in 2009 (after asking his agent to track her down) so couldn't have been that sad a year for him.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Interesting thought experiment, OP. I wondered where you could possibly go with this, since Courier’s career is clearly greater than Ivanisevic’s.

It’s true that Goran is much more lauded/more of a hero in Croatia than Jim is in the USA. However, that’s probably true for even Goran vs Pete Sampras, simply because the USA has so many stars in so many sports - and a lot of them are of course far more popular than tennis there. So I don’t think that alone would make me ‘rather’ be Goran than Jim, since the latter would know that he’d had a much greater career, despite his lack of acknowledgement from the general public. You can be sure that the tennis community gives greater respect to Courier than to Ivanisevic.

Also, let’s be honest - Courier has always seemed like a guy with his head firmly screwed on. Ivanisevic was a notorious headcase, to the extent that I’d seriously have feared for his mental health had he lost the 2001 W final.

Thus I’d certainly prefer to be Courier.

 

[beernutz]

Even though they are about the same age and won about the same number of titles (23 for Jim and 22 for Goran), Courier won about $14 million in his career while Goran won almost $20 million. I think I lean towards the extra $6 mil even if Courier owned their head-to-head 8 to 3.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Even though they are about the same age and won about the same number of titles (23 for Jim and 22 for Goran), Courier won about $14 million in his career while Goran won almost $20 million. I think I lean towards the extra $6 mil even if Courier owned their head-to-head 8 to 3.

I'd say at that level of wealth, an extra million doesn't mean that much. They're both obviously very wealthy.

Also, you're only looking at career earnings - who's to say Courier hasn't made more post-career than Ivanisevic?

 

[BGod]

Courier made way more in endorsements and gotta consider inflation too.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

Sharapova's ball has no zip to it.
When did this happen?

 

[Mainad]

Sharapova's ball has no zip to it.
When did this happen?

I think you may be in the wrong thread.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

I think you may be in the wrong thread.

Oops, sorry.