would you rather be played higher or lower than you think you belong?

S

SGM1980

Rookie
I'm trying to figure out lineups for this season for my 8.0 mixed team and I wanted some opinions.

My husband and I are the best pair on our team, but this year, for some physical reasons of my own, I'm not playing at 100% and will probably only play half the season or less. Honestly, I think we're still the best pair on our team - we just had practice and beat one of our better pairs 3 and 3 - but I'd like to bump us down a court or two this season. We've always played court 1 in the past. I'm not sure if the rest of my team will think that I'm trying to go for easy wins or something... My physical thing isn't a secret, so I think they would understand why I'm not putting us on court 1, but I'm just not sure...

Lets say you think you're "court 2 material" in a particular match. Would you be happier playing up a court or down a court from where you think you belong?
 
In my area, pretty much none of the captains play in order of strength. So nothing can be read into court assignment. Which is good on two fronts: Externally, it prevents opponents from predicting who is going to play where and then setting their own lineups accordingly, and internally, it takes away the whole ego thing of being put on court 1/2/3, since it becomes meaningless and players are going to be in different lines for each match.

Maybe this is not the norm in your area, but perhaps it's something you should consider doing. It does seem to completely solve your problem, since all your players would know that court assignment is random and meaningless.
 
Extending what @OrangePower said, my suggestion to players is to just go play on whatever court your captain puts you on and do your best to win. Don't worry about what court you are on, there is no rule about that (save plus flights) so you don't know that the opponent has their strongest pair on court 1, that just leads to unnecessary drama.
 
Last season, my partner and I were the best doubles pair. We played a mix of line 1 and line 2. My partner talked to the captain and asked to put us on line 1 every match because we wanted the challenge. If the captain felt we were not the strongest pair, we were very open to a challenge match.

I'm now on 2 mixed doubles teams. I don't much experience playing with my partner so I'm sure the captain will not put us on line 1 until we've proven our worth. (incidentally I seem to be partnered with the female captain on both teams)

Unless line 1 pair is clearly not as good, I would think they would be honored to play court 1 rather than feeling you guys are sandbagging.
 
ChaelAZ said:

I would rather be 3/10 playing up than 10/3 playing down. If things are too easy I lose focus and interest quick.
Click to expand...
Last season we were beat 3,1 by a very good opponent. The points were a lot closer than the score shows. But in the end, we got BEAT. But we had so much fun during that match vs another match where we won 1, 2. That was so hard just to maintain our focus when we knew we'd run them over.
 
If you still think you're the best pair, why not stay at line 1 [unless you're stacking or randomizing]?

You're the captain: do what you think is right and if people don't like it, they can captain next season. You seem like you're trying to balance the team's interests and that's all I could ask for in a captain.

Another situation where I might stay at line 1 is if the 2nd or 3rd best team can't handle playing line 1 because they get nervous [not because they're not capable], lose, and then blame you for putting them at line 1.
 
There's another way to look at this.

You say your issue is injury. When I am injured, I do not want to play stronger players. I know me: I will not baby an injury if I have strong opponents. Instead, I will try to be a hero and make matters worse. If I have weaker opponents, I will feel better about playing more tentatively. I say this in part because my last knee injury came during a match against crazy strong mixed opponents.

Also, keep in mind you cannot predict whether the opposing captain will play according to strength. But you can predict whether an opposing team has strong players. Maybe play against weaker teams.
 
That’s hard to say. Some captains will put their #1 at #3 to get an easy win. You may want to try mixing up your lines and experiment with it.
 
I have something to say!
As the only 3.5F on the 8.0 team and with the only 4.5M player going out of town for the past 4 matches ... my life became unpleasant.

So I kept getting placed on court one week after week after week ... with a 4.0M (but never the same one!),... the captain said: despite your rating you are probably our strongest woman, you'll be fine.

Was not fine.

Honestly, I played in some really tough matches. That was great, I rose to the challenge. On paper we were supposed to lose, and we did, but not by much at all.

BUT ... I would like an occassional break at a lower court, just for the emotional benefit of a win.

Plus, if you mix it up from week to week, it will be harder for opposing captains to have an inkling as to what your lineup will be.
 
OnTheLine said:
the captain said: despite your rating you are probably our strongest woman, you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

That's shorthand for "if I put someone else in, they will fold like a cheap suit or Anakin Skywalker but I know you're mentally tough enough to endure."

A compliment, really.

But yeah, it can be tough on the emotional cash register to always be paying out.
 
ChaelAZ said:


I would rather be 3/10 playing up than 10/3 playing down. If things are too easy I lose focus and interest quick.
Click to expand...
ditto, and for me, going 7/6 for the season would indicate i'm about where i should be playing (in a perfect world where everyone was playing the lines by order or strength)
 
Thanks for all the comments!

I think Cindy's post really struck home. I have no sense of self-preservation, and if I play through something I usually feel the adrenaline and ignore all common sense and go all out even if I shouldn't. So I wanted to try to be responsible and not put myself in a position where I'm going to do something stupid. Plus I think if I exert less effort I can probably play more games. I'm considering just making the executive decision to play at court 3 for as long as I can play.

We have a team with two 3.5/4.5 pairs (women/men), and the other 8 are 4 4.0 ladies and 4 4.0 guys. Honestly, other than the team of my husband and myself, everyone else is kind of a toss up, so everyone's suggestion to just assign courts pretty much at random seems like a good idea. I looked back at last year, and pretty much everyone played court 1 at one point or another, so it shouldn't be a big deal if everyone plays 1 again. The only difference will be that WE'RE not on 1 when we do play.

And there's only two teams that I'm really worried about in our league so I don't think it really matters who we play against them - they're full of ringers so we'll probably come in third in the league to them again anyway. I think most of our pairs could beat most of the pairs on all the other "normal" teams.

Funny story for those of you who were following the "why didn't this person get bumped" threads that @rod99 and I both independently started about the same player. She was on one of the teams of ringers as a 3.5, but now that she's a 4.0 they kicked her off! I guess as a 3.5 ringer she was valuable to the captain, but as an actual 4.0 he's got better ringers than her!
 
OnTheLine said:
I have something to say!
As the only 3.5F on the 8.0 team and with the only 4.5M player going out of town for the past 4 matches ... my life became unpleasant.

So I kept getting placed on court one week after week after week ... with a 4.0M (but never the same one!),... the captain said: despite your rating you are probably our strongest woman, you'll be fine.

Was not fine.

Honestly, I played in some really tough matches. That was great, I rose to the challenge. On paper we were supposed to lose, and we did, but not by much at all.

BUT ... I would like an occassional break at a lower court, just for the emotional benefit of a win.

Plus, if you mix it up from week to week, it will be harder for opposing captains to have an inkling as to what your lineup will be.
Click to expand...

Some days you are the windshield, some days you are the bug.

We've all been there.

J
 
SGM1980 said:
We have a team with two 3.5/4.5 pairs (women/men), and the other 8 are 4 4.0 ladies and 4 4.0 guys. Honestly, other than the team of my husband and myself, everyone else is kind of a toss up, so everyone's suggestion to just assign courts pretty much at random seems like a good idea. I looked back at last year, and pretty much everyone played court 1 at one point or another, so it shouldn't be a big deal if everyone plays 1 again. The only difference will be that WE'RE not on 1 when we do play.
Click to expand...
Does your league have weighted line scoring? In 3 court weighted line league, court 1 will have half the points, so you have to have your best there.
 
SGM1980 said:
Funny story for those of you who were following the "why didn't this person get bumped" threads that @rod99 and I both independently started about the same player. She was on one of the teams of ringers as a 3.5, but now that she's a 4.0 they kicked her off! I guess as a 3.5 ringer she was valuable to the captain, but as an actual 4.0 he's got better ringers than her!
Click to expand...
That is interesting. Although to be fair, the team could have a full roster of 4.0 women and they really need a 3.5 to play with 4.5 men they have, so adding another 4.0 serves no purpose especially if the other 4.0 women are "tenured" team members.
 
SGM1980 said:
Funny story for those of you who were following the "why didn't this person get bumped" threads that @rod99 and I both independently started about the same player. She was on one of the teams of ringers as a 3.5, but now that she's a 4.0 they kicked her off! I guess as a 3.5 ringer she was valuable to the captain, but as an actual 4.0 he's got better ringers than her!
Click to expand...
That's hilarious.
 
There's two teams in my 8.0 mixed league that annoy the hell out of me. They're not breaking any rules, but they still annoy me.

One is all 4.5 guys and 3.5 ladies, and every guy is either a club pro or a tennis coach. The other one is just everyone in the area I've ever known of with a questionable rating - like the 4.0 ladies who were 3.5 just last year when then went to NATIONALS and won all their 4.0 matches and won our 4.5 WTT league this year.

Again, more power to them for putting together teams like this. But it's still super annoying to play them! I honestly don't know how they find all these people to play. I just don't have the energy!
 
SGM1980 said:
There's two teams in my 8.0 mixed league that annoy the hell out of me. They're not breaking any rules, but they still annoy me.

One is all 4.5 guys and 3.5 ladies, and every guy is either a club pro or a tennis coach. The other one is just everyone in the area I've ever known of with a questionable rating - like the 4.0 ladies who were 3.5 just last year when then went to NATIONALS and won all their 4.0 matches and won our 4.5 WTT league this year.

Again, more power to them for putting together teams like this. But it's still super annoying to play them! I honestly don't know how they find all these people to play. I just don't have the energy!
Click to expand...

If it annoys you that much, do some recruiting of your own or try to poach some of their guys.

If it doesn't annoy you that much, stop spending energy on being annoyed and focus on something else, like improving your and your teammates' games.

There's one team in my league that does a superb job of recruiting young ex-collegiates; they not only win the league, they often go undefeated and usually by lopsided scores.

I love playing against them because I know that I'm going to have to play my absolute best just to avoid getting crushed. That does way more for me than an easy win. That's one of the reasons I play league: to get the opportunity to go up against superior competition without having to pay $50 to get immediately eliminated in a tournament.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
If it annoys you that much, do some recruiting of your own or try to poach some of their guys.

If it doesn't annoy you that much, stop spending energy on being annoyed and focus on something else, like improving your and your teammates' games.

There's one team in my league that does a superb job of recruiting young ex-collegiates; they not only win the league, they often go undefeated and usually by lopsided scores.

I love playing against them because I know that I'm going to have to play my absolute best just to avoid getting crushed. That does way more for me than an easy win. That's one of the reasons I play league: to get the opportunity to go up against superior competition without having to pay $50 to get immediately eliminated in a tournament.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the constructive criticism, really, but it annoys me exactly enough to complain about it in this thread. Definitely not enough to change up a team that has a lot of nice players who all get along. And definitely not enough to try to poach players and recruit people outside my club. We'll be third again hopefully, and we're fine with that!

I think we're ahead of everyone else because we DO practice together quite a bit, and I think in mixed especially having a good relationship and familiarity with your partner is very important.
 
OnTheLine said:
I have something to say!
As the only 3.5F on the 8.0 team and with the only 4.5M player going out of town for the past 4 matches ... my life became unpleasant.

So I kept getting placed on court one week after week after week ... with a 4.0M (but never the same one!),... the captain said: despite your rating you are probably our strongest woman, you'll be fine.

Was not fine.

Honestly, I played in some really tough matches. That was great, I rose to the challenge. On paper we were supposed to lose, and we did, but not by much at all.

BUT ... I would like an occassional break at a lower court, just for the emotional benefit of a win.

Plus, if you mix it up from week to week, it will be harder for opposing captains to have an inkling as to what your lineup will be.
Click to expand...
I find many 3.5F are better at 8.0 mixed than the average 4.0F, because 4.0 gals are less appreciative of the importance of staggering your distance to the net on majority of points.
 
J011yroger said:
Some days you are the windshield, some days you are the bug.

We've all been there.

J
Click to expand...

Well, I wouldn't want to be the windshield wiper, but I think being the windshield cleaner spray nozzle would be fun. Especially when you aren't really aligned properly and you spray OVER your intended windshield and actually spray onto the car behind you! Good times...
 
Mongolmike said:
Well, I wouldn't want to be the windshield wiper, but I think being the windshield cleaner spray nozzle would be fun. Especially when you aren't really aligned properly and you spray OVER your intended windshield and actually spray onto the car behind you! Good times...
Click to expand...

Sometimes I feel like the timing belt with a few missing teeth.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
That's shorthand for "if I put someone else in, they will fold like a cheap suit or Anakin Skywalker but I know you're mentally tough enough to endure."

A compliment, really.

But yeah, it can be tough on the emotional cash register to always be paying out.
Click to expand...
It could be shorthand for "we're sacrificing you guys at court 1 and hoping to take the other 2."
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
It could be. But @OnTheLine wrote "Honestly, I played in some really tough matches. That was great, I rose to the challenge. On paper we were supposed to lose, and we did, but not by much at all.".

That tells me it wasn't a sacrifice.
Click to expand...
I know what she wrote. She's also said something along the lines that she has no trouble hanging in groundstroke rallies with opposing 4.5 men and that she's even able to set up her partner for aggressive poaching in said rallies. Perhaps there is some 3.5 out there that can hold their own with 4.5s from the baseline, but I've never seen it.
 
winchestervatennis said:
I know what she wrote. She's also said something along the lines that she has no trouble hanging in groundstroke rallies with opposing 4.5 men and that she's even able to set up her partner for aggressive poaching in said rallies. Perhaps there is some 3.5 out there that can hold their own with 4.5s from the baseline, but I've never seen it.
Click to expand...

Reference?
 
winchestervatennis said:
I know what she wrote. She's also said something along the lines that she has no trouble hanging in groundstroke rallies with opposing 4.5 men and that she's even able to set up her partner for aggressive poaching in said rallies. Perhaps there is some 3.5 out there that can hold their own with 4.5s from the baseline, but I've never seen it.
Click to expand...

Please keep these sorts of unnecessary and off topic comments out of this thread. Thank you.
 
No "order of play" here. Players are mostly organized by how they play together, and the order it ends up on the lineup sheet is not really indicative of strength. My captain does try to "guess" the opponents lineup so strategic sacrifices lineups can be made, but in the grand scheme of things, strategies like that dont really work because you cannot guarantee what lineup you will face, so the stronger overall team regardless of order will win more often than not.

If you know what lineup they will play, then you can effectively "stack" your lineup. That's shady territory though. You dont wanna be one of those people who looks at your opponents lineup sheet first then decides who is playing at which line. Some captains here will not show the lineup unless you also have yours halfway completed, while some will just hand their half completed lineup over to you and you can write in your players on theirs.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Reference?
Click to expand...
The thread about guys bashing balls at ladies in mixed. Post 76.

"I can return pretty much anything hit by a 4.5 man from the baseline with enough consistency and placement to extend the point and avoid the player at the net. Honestly the harder you hit it and the more you think you're pushing me off the court the easier it is for me to return it. My quick-handed partner then wait for the weak return he can smash off the court or volley for a winner."
 
winchestervatennis said:
The thread about guys bashing balls at ladies in mixed. Post 76.

"I can return pretty much anything hit by a 4.5 man from the baseline with enough consistency and placement to extend the point and avoid the player at the net. Honestly the harder you hit it and the more you think you're pushing me off the court the easier it is for me to return it. My quick-handed partner then wait for the weak return he can smash off the court or volley for a winner."
Click to expand...

Yes, I remember that thread.

OK, I agree that the scenario is most unusual: if I'm playing against someone just one level above me, I'm going to have a heck of a time staying neutral. If it's 2 or 3 levels? Fuhgeddaboutit.

I'm a high 4.5 and I go to a drill with a lot of 5.0s, who, if you believe the ratings sites, are not that far above me [half level or less]. However, they blow me off of the court: I can't handle their pace or spin and very little I do bothers them.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Reference?
Click to expand...
Apologies, I mixed up usernames. On The Line said this in post 87 of the same thread...

"Typically, we only need to handle 2 of your heavy shots from the baseline before our partner can get a poachable ball ... that is not that difficult and is a far cry from handling 4 or more of those same heavy TS shots in a singles match (which wouldn't happen)."

I got the two 3.5s that don't have trouble with 4.5s mixed up.
 
winchestervatennis said:
The thread about guys bashing balls at ladies in mixed. Post 76.

"I can return pretty much anything hit by a 4.5 man from the baseline with enough consistency and placement to extend the point and avoid the player at the net. Honestly the harder you hit it and the more you think you're pushing me off the court the easier it is for me to return it. My quick-handed partner then wait for the weak return he can smash off the court or volley for a winner."
Click to expand...

This is not the place to rehash this, please.

If you want to continue to question the statements that women make, please reopen that thread.

Myself and others women who make similar claims have explained over there time and time again what we are able to do and how we can do it. We've defended ourselves there and we don't need to do it here.

Please stop bringing it up in this thread.

Thanks.
 
SGM1980 said:
This is not the place to rehash this, please.

If you want to continue to question the statements that women make, please reopen that thread.

Myself and others women who make similar claims have explained over there time and time again what we are able to do and how we can do it. We've defended ourselves there and we don't need to do it here.

Please stop bringing it up in this thread.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

BTW: I'm not making my judgment based on gender [at least, I don't think I am]. I'm basing it on difference in level. I'm also comparing it to my own experience when facing someone a full level above me.
 
winchestervatennis said:
It could be shorthand for "we're sacrificing you guys at court 1 and hoping to take the other 2."
Click to expand...

You are always so darn charming around the ladies. (sarcasm intended)

My mixed team is at the bottom of the flight. might be dead last. In 8 team matches played we have won a total of 9 courts. I was on 5 of those courts on line 1. (4 with a 4.5 and 1 with a 4.0) ... Captain is hoping not to have other courts simply blown out. In last week's match our court 2 lost 2&1 and court 3 lost 1&0. Dismal. So not a sacrifice .... but I kinda would have preferred court 2 last week.
 
SGM1980 said:
There's two teams in my 8.0 mixed league that annoy the hell out of me. They're not breaking any rules, but they still annoy me.

One is all 4.5 guys and 3.5 ladies, and every guy is either a club pro or a tennis coach. The other one is just everyone in the area I've ever known of with a questionable rating - like the 4.0 ladies who were 3.5 just last year when then went to NATIONALS and won all their 4.0 matches and won our 4.5 WTT league this year.

Again, more power to them for putting together teams like this. But it's still super annoying to play them! I honestly don't know how they find all these people to play. I just don't have the energy!
Click to expand...
Are we playing in the same league or something?

Yeah, we have teams like that, and I have had to play 4.5 teaching pros. It was no fun for me, so I don't see how it could be fun for them.

It is crazy fun on the very rare occasions when I get a win against that particular dynasty. Over 10+ years, I can count on one hand the number of wins I have.

And yes, you are off those teams when you bump up and are at the bottom of your level -- there are better ringers to be had.
 
Cindysphinx said:
Yeah, we have teams like that, and I have had to play 4.5 teaching pros. It was no fun for me, so I don't see how it could be fun for them.
Click to expand...
Off topic, but "teaching pro" does not correlate to strength. Probably a third of the guys on my 4.5 team are "teaching pros" in some capacity; as a group they are no better or worse than the rest of the guys.
 
OrangePower said:
Off topic, but "teaching pro" does not correlate to strength. Probably a third of the guys on my 4.5 team are "teaching pros" in some capacity; as a group they are no better or worse than the rest of the guys.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But these are good teaching pros
 
I've only ever played people below me in level. I'd like to try playing someone higher but I have yet to find someone who meets that criterion.
 
Last edited:
TTMR said:
I've only ever played people below me in level. I'd like to try playing someone higher but so far I have to find someone who meets that criterion.
Click to expand...

Didn't you stop playing with other people? Doesn't that make it tough to find anyone, better or worse?
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Didn't you stop playing with other people? Doesn't that make it tough to find anyone, better or worse?
Click to expand...

If you examine that thread more carefully, you'll see that the main reason I quit playing with other people is because I'm sick of playing people below me.
 
Since when does what court you play correlate with how good you are? The only captains putting courts together like that lose like every match.
 
OrangePower said:
Off topic, but "teaching pro" does not correlate to strength. Probably a third of the guys on my 4.5 team are "teaching pros" in some capacity; as a group they are no better or worse than the rest of the guys.
Click to expand...
I’m talking about guys who spend a lot of time teaching women like me. They know exactly what shots will mess up their students.
 
I personally always prefer to "play up" when given the chance and there are no "for the good of the team" considerations.

However,

Even though court placement typically means very little in reality, there are many players that get tight when playing line 1 doubles. Pressure gets to them. For this reason I you may want to continue playing line 1 doubles for no other reason than to protect your teams mates from that "pressure".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cindysphinx
How would you react to this request?
Replies
41
Views
4K
OrangePower
OrangePower
A
Good or Bad Captaining - What do you think?
Replies
36
Views
2K
ShaunS
S
D
What would you have done?
Replies
30
Views
3K
tennis tom
T
Traffic
USTA Play-offs! Stack or Straight Up?
Replies
15
Views
2K
CHtennis
CHtennis
OrangePower
  • Poll Poll
Would you rather get a team win or an individual win?
Replies
24
Views
3K
heninfan99
heninfan99
Back
Top