Wrist Acceleration!?

Well he demostrates quite passive relaxed wrist usage and speaks against tightening. Nothing wrong? Particularly if you need to un-tighten particular student (rather than give precise comprehensive techniques description for wide audience).
 
I believe coaches should be very careful with their word choice and they should try not to use misleading descriptions like "wrist acceleration". If I was not informed enough, I would use my wrist actively after watching this video. It's so important to emphasize that wrist has nothing to do with generating power.
 
Manhattan said:
I believe coaches should be very careful with their word choice and they should try not to use misleading descriptions like "wrist acceleration". If I was not informed enough, I would use my wrist actively after watching this video. It's so important to emphasize that wrist has nothing to do with generating power.
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Well for good players like the one he coaches they should understand just fine, and he is there to correct them anyways. But I agree that I've seen random players who thought they had to actively use the wrist and wondered why it hurts. they wouldn't believe me no matter how many times I said to keep the wrist relawed, simply because their coach told them to use the wrist...
 
Curious said:
I feel like he actually meant active use of the wrist whether it’s wrong or right. Like a whip, that’s why he emphasised the importance of looseness.
Btw it’s obvious but wrist is a joint, doesn’t really accelerate, it’s the hand that accelerates.:)
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If it's loose it can't be active by definition.
 
Arm swings, and with a loose wrist the hand whips, you’re right. Active forearm muscle contraction doesn’t sound right.
 
By the way, active usage of the wrist is one of the biggest and oldest misconceptions in tennis that you still hear it from a lot of coaches, but I was surprised to hear it from Patrick whom I consider a knowledgeable coach.
 
Manhattan said:
By the way, active usage of the wrist is one of the biggest and oldest misconceptions in tennis that you still hear it from a lot of coaches, but I was surprised to hear it from Patrick whom I consider a knowledgeable coach.
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It's just a poor choice of words I'm sure. He knows his stuff.
 
Don't really see what the issue is. You want racquet acceleration that comes from a loose wrist and grip. If to you *wrist acceleration* means stiffly arming the shot with forearm muscles then that's simply you applying a very specific meaning to the term. If to him wrist acceleration means being fast and lose and whippy then I think that's totally ok was well. Is your definition written down in a book somewhere?

I know for sure using the terms pronation and supination will just confuse the heck out of anyone that hasn't done anatomy (or spent hours arguing on internet message boards about tennis serving motion).
 
curly_2350 said:
Don't really see what the issue is. You want racquet acceleration that comes from a loose wrist and grip. If to you *wrist acceleration* means stiffly arming the shot with forearm muscles then that's simply you applying a very specific meaning to the term. If to him wrist acceleration means being fast and lose and whippy then I think that's totally ok was well. Is your definition written down in a book somewhere?

I know for sure using the terms pronation and supination will just confuse the heck out of anyone that hasn't done anatomy (or spent hours arguing on internet message boards about tennis serving motion).
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Wrist acceleration reminds me of wrist flexion and not racquet acceleration. This is absolutely a poor choice of word on Patrick's side.
 
Manhattan said:
Wrist acceleration reminds me of wrist flexion and not racquet acceleration. This is absolutely a poor choice of word on Patrick's side.
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I don't find his choice of words confusing or wrong in any sense. The tip of a whip accelerates though it is has no mechanism for providing power of its own.
 
Manhattan said:
I believe coaches should be very careful with their word choice and they should try not to use misleading descriptions like "wrist acceleration". If I was not informed enough, I would use my wrist actively after watching this video. It's so important to emphasize that wrist has nothing to do with generating power.
Click to expand...

Saying inhibit the wrist movement has negative consequences as well. I remember trying to hold the wrist stable which resulted in death grip and massive loss of speed and injury. Keeping the wrist loose to start the motion has huge benefit and once folks develop feeling for utilizing big muscles, the wrist stays in place as body adjusts to present the right racket face angle. But premature wrist stabilization by holding the racket tight is something to avoid.
 
Curious said:
:D
I suspect he means some sort of whippiness again rather than active forearm contractions.
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Well, when we have someone like PM saying something, we at least must try to get what he is communicating, even if it sounds contradicting our beliefs at first... I agree with your interpretation, he possibly wants to unlock the wrist, to not resist the layback at drop phase:
federer-serves-us-open_3349819.jpg

Later on he focuses on not using the shoulder - likely to prevent arming. He doesn’t say anything about torso and legs - likely because Bob is doing it solidly. So focuses on wrist whippiness at the very end of motion...

Personally, I would be worried if student carried with him the achieved movement, or the wording which might later confuse him... If the coach continues working with the student, he will solidify the proper motion, not just word instruction, and correct whatever needs correction.
 
Wrist ""ACCELERATION" ... NO!!! ... ... ... Wrist flexes mostly as a natural result of the big racquet head DECELERATION required ... AFTER its enormous momentum hitting out TO contact ... has reached its directional limit.

~ MG
 
You don't need a death grip to inhibit wrist movement. I always liked the analogy hold on tight enough to keep a small bird in your hand but not tight enough to crush it. Applies on most shots. Volleys might be a little tighter.
 
So what do the reputable coaches here think about forearm muscle powered wrist flexion, radial deviation, ulnar deviation in tennis serve and forehand? The infamous wrist snap. Is it a thing? If not activated by forearm muscles, why is there a confusion/misconception about it?
@Serve Doc @JohnYandell
 
Forcing wrist snap actually decelerates head speed when you are throwing head speed effectively. Like an extension cord....wrist snap doesn't generate power but shouldn't impede flow of power either. Forced wrist push slows racquet head speed rather than what you think you are adding and results in a lot of shanks because it corrupts the centrifugal path of the swing
 
Serve Doc said:
Forcing wrist snap actually decelerates head speed when you are throwing head speed effectively. Like an extension cord....doesn't generate power but shouldn't impede flow of power either. Forced wrist push slows racquet head speed rather than what you think you are adding and results in a lot of shanks because it corrupts the centrifugal path of the swing
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Are you saying the wrist flexion happens totally passively without any contribution from forearm flexor muscles?
 
Serve Doc said:
yes... if you throw head speed you stay passive to allow the head speed to happen....and reduce common injuries as well.
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Which circles back to your exercise (on another thread) of releasing fingers off of the racquet in order to feel that relaxed feeling of the racquet head crashing into the ball at contact, effortlessly.
 
If you narrate a high speed video or attach text to specific frames, when things are happening you have the words and the video frames together. The video is absolutely true in showing positions, but interpretation is needed and uncertainty is still there. But most tennis term descriptions - when they describe positions - do not hold up well to the high speed video.
 
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Manhattan said:

How come a world class coach like Patrick Mouratoglou still doesn't know that it's not wrist acceleration? He's pronating his forearm and says it's wrist acceleration! Weird!
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Because they take words with them they used early on. They also sometimes throw words out to pacify.

Instructional books are many times written by others, not the world class player who titles it.

Can a "so called instructor" really teach? Examine carefully and take a good long look at the jargon they sprew.

I've had to deal with this foolishness my whole life. And it's getting much worst.
 
JohnYandell said:
Pilot, Yes I did or rather Brian Gordon explained it to me. The inhibation sets the racket angle for the shot line.
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Could it be that inhibition of wrist flexion also diverts the energy that would go into the flexion, into pronation instead - which is what is desired?
 
Pilot no idea on that one... But it's shoulder arm and racket rotation as a unit, not technically pronation which is only the forearm.
 
I'll say it. I think the guy is a charismatic fake, just like Pepe. The reality is that he has created a name for himself, but is not actually the coach at his academies, of players that attend. I have met instructors on public park courts that have better tennis knowledge than this clown. He reminds me of a televangelist, a cult leader.
 
zipplock said:
I'll say it. I think the guy is a charismatic fake, just like Pepe. The reality is that he has created a name for himself, but is not actually the coach at his academies, of players that attend. I have met instructors on public park courts that have better tennis knowledge than this clown. He reminds me of a televangelist, a cult leader.
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I saw some videos of him playing tennis and he looks really good. But can’t find any information about his playing background on the internet.
 
There's a member on this site that said they attended his academy as a junior and had less than goos things to say about PM.
I have seen his little "stories" posted on Instagram supposedly instructing a player, and what he says is generally beyond rudimentary.
I am making an assumption that those that attend his academy are not new to tennis ....
 
JohnYandell said:
Zip,
But he is good as a corner man for Serena et al... Different coaches have different strengths to put it gently... PS who is Pepe?
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That's fine, but he is presenting himself as a tennis instructor ..... Not a corner man.

Pepe Imaz, Djokers guru .....
 
zipplock said:
I'll say it. I think the guy is a charismatic fake, just like Pepe. The reality is that he has created a name for himself, but is not actually the coach at his academies, of players that attend. I have met instructors on public park courts that have better tennis knowledge than this clown. He reminds me of a televangelist, a cult leader.
Click to expand...

Astute observation. Kudos. Generally, the instructor at the public park isn't selling Dr. Good, BS.
 
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