Wrist action on 2-handed backhand - how to change?

[tomkowy]

Since I was a kid I was taught to play backhand similar as Venus Williams - I take the racquet back with very relaxed wrists so the racquet head from the beginning of the backswing is below the wrists. Video:

I'v noticed that I struggle sometimes with generating power from "dead" balls or adding more spin to my bh shots. I'd like to change the take back a bit - hold racquet head above my wrists and let it drop when I start the swing forwards. When I try to do it, racquet usually does not drop a lot, goes rather flat forwards. Unfortunately, I don't have any video.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Now through the backswing both my wrists are relaxed. If I want to keep the racquet above the wrists, which hand should take the racquet weight and hold it up? Right or left?
2. Now the backswing is "done" mainly by my right arm. The forward swing is done by both hands. On impact I feel that left hand is "dominant". Should the swing back be initiated by left or right arm mainly?
3. How does the racquet drop feel? Does it feel like on forehand - it happens naturally because wrists are quite relaxed? Is it different?
4. Do you know any drills to make the transition easier?

 

[eah123]

You need learn how to use a looping action on the backhand. When the ball bounces, the racquet should be pointed up and toward the back fence. Then accelerate into the racquet drop.

 

[tomkowy]

You need learn how to use a looping action on the backhand. When the ball bounces, the racquet should be pointed up and toward the back fence. The accelerate into the racquet drop.

I know that, that’s why I’m asking specific questions how to perform it.

 

[eah123]

I know that, that’s why I’m asking specific questions how to perform it.

Try this video.

 

[OldManStan]

On your backhand, you point the racquet head down towards the ground, which causes the flexion in your right wrist and doesn't allow your wrists to get a natural lag when accelerating into the ball.

I would suggest to try and keep the racquet tip facing up towards the back of wall while keeping a neutral wrist position. I would also initiate your backhand with your hips more in order to get more "free" acceleration and power.

 

[dennis]

Practice hitting with only the left hand holding the racket. Progress to using both hands and letting go with the right for the follow through. That should help with the number 3. on your list. If you get it right you'll get that easy power feeling.

I think generating power on dead balls is about getting the contact point right and transferring weight into the shot. You can see high level players look like they're getting pulled into the court with their swing as they've put so much into it.

 

[tomkowy]

I would suggest to try and keep the racquet tip facing up towards the back of wall while keeping a neutral wrist position. I would also initiate your backhand with your hips more in order to get more "free" acceleration and power.

Engaging hips - clear, I'll work on it. Holding the racquet up - which hand should take the racquet weight up? Right? Left? Both?

 

[tomkowy]

I think generating power on dead balls is about getting the contact point right and transferring weight into the shot. You can see high level players look like they're getting pulled into the court with their swing as they've put so much into it.

I wouldn't say the contact point or weight transfer are the weak points in my backhand. I guess I struggle with generating head racquet speed.

 

[PMChambers]

If you like Venus BH, her coach has a lot of video and disguses.
BTW He doesn't recomend her start position.

 

[tomkowy]

If you like Venus BH, her coach has a lot of video and disguses.
BTW He doesn't recomend her start position.

Thanks for that, I will look into Macci's videos.

 

[Dartagnan64]

The big thing to remember is that you initiate the forward swing from the racket high position. That will force you to let the racket fall from gravity to a position below the ball. It will also mean you have to lag the arms and wrists and will sequence the kinetic chain better.

I've been working on this exact thing and it's not easy to change. I've done it in the FH quite nicely, but since my BH is RH dominant, it's hard for me to practice the LH FH as a guide.

 

[Nellie]

I (righty) regularly practice my 2hbd by holding the racket with my left hand and only the thumb and index finger of my right hand on the handle to allow the left hand to control motion and operate loosely, like a lefty forehand (the right hand doesn't do much except act act as fulcrum at the base of the handle). I could just do a lefty forehand in practice, but I find that once the right hand went back on, I reverted back to a very stiff stroke

 

[tomkowy]

The big thing to remember is that you initiate the forward swing from the racket high position. That will force you to let the racket fall from gravity to a position below the ball. It will also mean you have to lag the arms and wrists and will sequence the kinetic chain better.

I've been working on this exact thing and it's not easy to change. I've done it in the FH quite nicely, but since my BH is RH dominant, it's hard for me to practice the LH FH as a guide.

What I struggle with is keeping wrists relaxed while keeping racquet high. I get tense when I start turning hips and racquet is not dropping.

I (righty) regularly practice my 2hbd by holding the racket with my left hand and only the thumb and index finger of my right hand on the handle to allow the left hand to control motion and operate loosely, like a lefty forehand (the right hand doesn't do much except act act as fulcrum at the base of the handle). I could just do a lefty forehand in practice, but I find that once the right hand went back on, I reverted back to a very stiff stroke

I was trying that and I'm not sure that the right arm does not do much. When I turn the hip, the right arm is pulling the racquet in the beginning, then the left arm is starting to push. But I will try with holding the racquet only with a few fingers, so I would not grip too hard with my left hand, thanks

 

[Chas Tennis]

I have not studied the two hand backhand very much. One of the features of Djokovic's backhand is shown here. I would say this is a different sub-motion for lowering the racket head than used by Venus Williams.

I show it in my thread of Don't Notice these Motions videos.

Don't notice how Djokovic lowers the height of his racket head on his two hand backhand.

To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

I believe that the reason that Djokovic (& maybe others with 2HBHs) and most ATP one hand backhand players lower the racket head by tilting the racket shaft down is to maintain the radius out from the rotation axes to the racket head (spine and/or shoulder joint are the two rotation axes). For that you want the upper arm out, elbow away from the body more. Lowering the racket head by tilting the upper arms down shortens that radius. Since racket head speed is rotation rate X radius out you will lose racket head speed if, for the same rotation rates, you shorten that radius by tilting the arms down more. See videos for the ATP 2HBHs.

Try looking at the racket lowering techniques, sub-motions, used by other 2HBH players.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I have not seen that tilting sub-motion discussed so far and if anyone has information or Youtubes on the subject, please post.

 

[Chas Tennis]

The big thing to remember is that you initiate the forward swing from the racket high position. .......................................................

Is that what they are doing?

 

[tomkowy]

I have not studied the two hand backhand very much. One of the features of Djokovic's backhand is shown here. I would say this is a different sub-motion for lowering the racket head than used by Venus Williams.

I show it in my thread of Don't Notice these Motions videos.


I believe that the reason that Djokovic (& maybe others with 2HBHs) and most ATP one hand backhand players lower the racket head by tilting the racket shaft down is to maintain the radius out from the rotation axes to the racket head (spine and/or shoulder joint are the two rotation axis). For that you want the upper arm out, elbow away from the body more. Lowering the racket head by tilting the upper arms down shortens that radius. Since racket head speed is rotation rate X radius out you will lose racket head speed if, for the same rotation rates, you shorten that radius by tilting the arms down more. See videos for the ATP 2HBHs.

Try looking at the racket lowering techniques, sub-motions, used by other 2HBH players.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I have not seen that tilting sub-motion discussed so far and if anyone has information or Youtubes on the subject, please post.

Thanks! I have a couple of thoughts:
Djokovic movement supports what is mentioned in this video (starts from 3:30):

He starts to turn hips which causes the right arm to pull the racquet. At the same time he's starting to push the racquet with left arm, what causes the racquet to drop. If you keep wrists relaxed and push the racquet outside the body, racquet drop will be deeper.

What I do wrong is a slightly forehand grip on my right arm. As a result my contact point is not enough in front of my body. So I don't extend my left arm because I would have my arms too much to the side. Also the takeback is short so there is little space to build racquet head speed.

My backhand was consistent and reliable because my take back was simple and fast. Also I was hitting the ball relatively close to the body. This way the ball placement was easy and I was never late. What I need to fix:
1. Bigger take back with racquet up
2. Contact point more in the front of the body
3. Change grip of my right arm to continental
4. Right foot stepping more into the court, not sideways
Grip, foot position and takeback are easy to change. Timing and contact point will take more time.

 

[tomkowy]

Is that what they are doing?

I believe so too. They start to turn hips -> pull with right arm. Just after that left arm starts to push, extends and brings the racquet down.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I believe so too. They start to turn hips -> pull with right arm. Just after that left arm starts to push, extends and brings the racquet down.

I believe that tilting the racket shaft down results in a greater radius out from the rotation axis. This longer radius out results in greater racket head speed for a given uppermost body turn.

This same tilting of the racket shaft down is also done for the one hand backhand, for the same reason in my opinion.

Don't notice how Justine Henin lowers the height of her racket head on her one hand backhand.

To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

If, on the other hand, the player tilts the upper arm down to lower the racket head, it reduces the radius out from the rotation axis.

Look at how many current one hand backhand players lower their rackets by tilting. Look at how many rec players lower their rackets by tilting.

This view has to be confirmed somehow or more information found on it.

 

[tomkowy]

I believe that tilting the racket shaft down results in a greater radius out from the rotation axis. This longer radius out results in greater racket head speed for a given uppermost body turn.

When I try it on the court it's other way around: guiding racquet further from the body with right arm allows for greater racquet drop. If I bend the right elbow too fast and guide the racquet closer to the body, there is no mobility for the right wrist to drop the racquet. I will try to record it today/tomorrow

 

[Chas Tennis]

When I try it on the court it's other way around: guiding racquet further from the body with right arm allows for greater racquet drop. If I bend the right elbow too fast and guide the racquet closer to the body, there is no mobility for the right wrist to drop the racquet. I will try to record it today/tomorrow

Post your video right above the Djokovic backhand, post #14, and I'll show you how to compare them frame-by-frame.

(To copy a Youtube video, right click on the video and click on the URL link.