Wrist in the forehand

[aimr75]

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

 

[Mahboob Khan]

Basically, it's the wrist and fore-arm which should be quite relax.

Just hold the racket relax (not tight),

Keep the wrist laid-back in the backswing,

and let it happen as you swing forward through contact.

It's the educated use of wrist-forearm.

Good luck.

 

[ms87]

there are a number of problems with your forehand, not the least of which are:
1) the apparently straight takeback. you need a loop.
2) the fact that you lock into a double bend and then extend into a straight arm during your forward swing. you should NEVER do this.
3) you shouldnt be using any "wrist" at all. none. there is forearm pronation involved, but to actively use your wrist is like flopping your wrist when you are checking your watch.

 

[ms87]

also the footwork sucks. you're not nearly low enough and the leg drive is too sudden and jerky.

i'm guessing most of the shots you hit like this are sailing long (or going into the net)

 

[aimr75]

there are a number of problems with your forehand, not the least of which are:
1) the apparently straight takeback. you need a loop.

If there is enough low to high to generate topspin, why is it essential to have a loop? you make it sound as though a loopy forehand is law

2) the fact that you lock into a double bend and then extend into a straight arm during your forward swing. you should NEVER do this.

Can you tell me why this should never be done, and what should i be doing?

3) you shouldnt be using any "wrist" at all. none. there is forearm pronation involved, but to actively use your wrist is like flopping your wrist when you are checking your watch.

i should have clarified that what i simply meant was their wrists dont seem rigid

also the footwork sucks. you're not nearly low enough and the leg drive is too sudden and jerky.

i'm guessing most of the shots you hit like this are sailing long (or going into the net)

How low do you have to get for a near shoulder height ball??

no most of my balls dont sail long or into the net

 

[Power Player]

It's not that bad. But yeah, bend your knees more. Also, what you do is lay your wrist back and come from low to high. You are coming more across. I probably hit forehands like this too sometimes, especially when I get lazy with my feet.

If you look at Nadal, he lays his wrist back and really has a nice arc on his swing. If you go low to high more you will keep your elbow closer to your body and maintain the double bend a lot better. This will result in more power.

 

[user92626]

This wrist thing is interesting to me as well.

All the pro's in vid clips I saw have a very pronounced laid-back and snapping forward wrist. I'm not suggesting they do that purposely. I just don't know how they do that.

How do you set your wrist in the fh stroke? One fixed firmness throughout or there's some sort a change during the stroke?

 

[mrcalon]

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

your forehand looks pretty good as is (nice straight arm style). if you compare your vids to pro vids, there isn't really much diff in terms of wrist movement. here's a good angle to compare with yours.
(btw MS87, all those "problems" you pointed out apply to the guy in my video as well lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTEsGt3gVu8&feature=related

 

[Sublime]

If there is enough low to high to generate topspin, why is it essential to have a loop? you make it sound as though a loopy forehand is law

I think a loop might be necessary to get the wrist movement you're looking for to happen. A loop gets the momentum of the tip of the racket moving backwards and down (at a faster rate than straight back). When you first pull the racket forward and away from your body to begin the swing forward, the momentum of the tip of the racket will resist. The tip will want to keep moving back and down, this will cause your forearm to supinate (if your arm is loose) and load.

Combine this getting the racket face more closed on the take back (I think the loop will help this happen too) and I think you'll start getting the movement you're looking for.

 

[LeeD]

I also think your forehand is just fine as is.
You go straight takeback to eliminate movment and keep consistent.
Your followthru is relatively flat, making for fast moving ball with top.
Your shoulder turn is sorta short, so maybe employ unit takeback to get the left shoulder pointing at target consistently.
You're hitting open stanced, not bad, but try to close the stance to give yourself a longer strike zone when you have time.
Forget trying to employ more wrist. Get your power from the uncoiling of the upper body rather than slapping with more wrist.

 

[aimr75]

thanks for comments, some things to think about.

I used to have quite a large loop, but this caused me to wrap my racquet behind my body passed the "imaginary line" on the take back rather then keeping it to the right side of my body (which nearly all ATP pros do). Taking the racquet back like in the vid has helped in this respect as i dont think i do it much now. Whether this is to the detriment in other areas, i dont know

 

[ms87]

your forehand looks pretty good as is (nice straight arm style). if you compare your vids to pro vids, there isn't really much diff in terms of wrist movement. here's a good angle to compare with yours.
(btw MS87, all those "problems" you pointed out apply to the guy in my video as well lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTEsGt3gVu8&feature=related

you dont know what youre talking about

 

[ms87]

All the pro's in vid clips I saw have a very pronounced laid-back and snapping forward wrist. I'm not suggesting they do that purposely. I just don't know how they do that.

their wrist is not snapping forward. nobody is snapping their wrist forward except for amateurs with wrist injuries.

 

[aimr75]

you dont know what youre talking about

I am wondering the same about you, but thats nothing to do with you highlighting issues with my forehand.. i welcome it since thats what this tips/instruction section is all about.. at the end of the day, its about improvement.. i am after an explanation to back up the statements you made.. making statements without reasoning behind it is of little use as its not really helping

 

[ShooterMcMarco]

The worst thing you can do is think about it too much. Try to relax it and allow it to move naturally.

 

[Blake0]

I'd say it's worth looking into later, once you get other technical problems down, and can hit well consistently with good spin and pace. Then you can look into the wrist thing to try to make it even faster .

Heres a great site that tells how you should use your wrist
http://tennis.about.com/od/forehandfaq/f/faqforehand6.htm

 

[pushing_wins]

aimr

what level are u?
forehand looks good

 

[aimr75]

aimr

what level are u?
forehand looks good

i dont live in the US, so not sure about NTRPs

 

[Jay_The_Nomad]

If you strike every single ball like that, you're doing fine.

 

[ogruskie]

I personally wouldn't worry about your wrist. When I hit, I rely on the general motion of my legs/body/arm to generate the topspin that I need, rather than relying on that insignificant wrist flick (which I'm sure doesn't even help that much). If you're forcing a motion that simply isn't there, forget it. Improve on what you do best rather than creating a new stroke altogether.

 

[pushing_wins]

i dont live in the US, so not sure about NTRPs

do you win your local club tournament?

 

[BORISK]

in what cases do you need to BRUSH the ball {from center to top}?

 

[aimr75]

do you win your local club tournament?

I used to play as a kid for fun, then gave it away and only took it up again about 1-2 years ago.. im 34 now, so have just been enjoying getting back into it.. am planning on getting into pennant competition when a spot opens up next year as they were all filled up this year. Here in Australia there is a team based competition called pennant..

A coach i know mentioned i should play in around grade 4 (grade 1 being the highest through to grade 15)

 

[mrcalon]

thanks for comments, some things to think about.

I used to have quite a large loop, but this caused me to wrap my racquet behind my body passed the "imaginary line" on the take back rather then keeping it to the right side of my body (which nearly all ATP pros do). Taking the racquet back like in the vid has helped in this respect as i dont think i do it much now. Whether this is to the detriment in other areas, i dont know

on your forward swing, are you consciously rotating your arm backwards in order to get into the point the buttcup at the ball poisiton? or are you just thinking about whipping the arm forward?

just curious as to what mental cues your using to generate that swing.

 

[aimr75]

on your forward swing, are you consciously rotating your arm backwards in order to get into the point the buttcup at the ball poisiton? or are you just thinking about whipping the arm forward?

just curious as to what mental cues your using to generate that swing.

no i dont consciously do it.. i just swing forward, whatever happens in the foward swing is just a consequence of swinging forward.. I tend to think a bit too much on the take back more so since as i mentioned before i tended to bring my racquet across my body..

 

[Bud]

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

FH looks pretty darn good, IMO. As someone else mentioned... you could use slightly more unit turn, a tad more knee bend and uncoil a bit later.

 

[aimr75]

FH looks pretty darn good, IMO. As someone else mentioned... you could use slightly more unit turn, a tad more knee bend and uncoil a bit later.

uncoil a bit later? am i doing it too early?

 

[oldhacker]

Looks a pretty decent forehand to me. Hard to tell from the video because it is all blurred around contact but you could be opening up a tad early which could be a cause of swinging across the ball a bit rather than hitting straight through it.

Not sure what you mean by players using 'a lot of wrist'. IMHO for standard rally balls you just want the wrist fairly relaxed (so it acts as a natural hinge) and laid back and there should be no forced movement of the wrist joint through contact.

If you are incorrectly calling forearm pronation a wrist movement then I would say yes the straight arm forehand hitters do pronate their forearm through contact as well as rotating the whole arm from the shoulder joint. I think players who hit with a more bent arm tend to use less pronation and more rotation from the shoulder joint. There is a good recent thread on here about this in which Will Hamilton makes some great observations.

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

 

[aimr75]

Not sure what you mean by players using 'a lot of wrist'. IMHO for standard rally balls you just want the wrist fairly relaxed (so it acts as a natural hinge) and laid back and there should be no forced movement of the wrist joint through contact.

yeah, this was what i was meaning.. my wrist looks to be more locked, and the natural hinge due to forward momemtum isnt apparant

 

[oldhacker]

The racquet arm and racquet through contact are such a blur in all but the best HD slow motion videos that it is impossible to make any meaningful observation. Obviously you know how your wrist feels on your shots. If your wrist is locked I would imagine you would be gripping the racquet too hard and also feeling tension in the forearm. Ideally you want the wrist just relaxed enough that it reacts to the forces in play rather than resists them. It should lay right back as the racquet arm accelerates on the forward swing (just as you are thrown back into your seat when you floor the accelrator of your car from a standing start. Then as the racquet arm speed levels out and then decelerates it should move forward.

Try holding your position at the end of your forehand follow through and see what your wrist has done. If it has kind of flopped forward and down then it is probably pretty loose but if it is still somewhat laid back and held up then maybe it is too fixed.

Also look at how you are with certain shots which do require a fluid wrist and arm to execute well such as short cross court angles off a low ball. If you struggle with this sort of shot then it could indicate that your wrist and forearm are too tight.

yeah, this was what i was meaning.. my wrist looks to be more locked, and the natural hinge due to forward momemtum isnt apparant

 

[paulfreda]

their wrist is not snapping forward. nobody is snapping their wrist forward except for amateurs with wrist injuries.

This is flat out NOT TRUE.
Have you ever seen Kendrick spank his FH ? Del Potro hit a duece court winner ? Nadal hit is BH ? How do you think he gets it back crosscourt from a closed stance ? IMO locking the wrist is what people did prior to the 80's when tennis was mostly a defensive game [except for the SVers Kramer, Gonzolaz, Ashe, etc].

Modern tennis more and more uses an educated wrist/forearm snap for power. Does Roddick look like he is locking his wrist ? Let it relax and use it the way one uses it on a serve.

All this, of course, is advice for good players with good coordination because all wrist/forearm movement takes good timing which is why it is prone to errors if not done well. Beginners and most ladies should just lay the wrist back and drive thru the ball.

=========================
To the original poster ....
You video looks fine to me. Nice powerful FH there.
There is not just one way to hit it well.
Just look at all the varying styles on tour.
Soderling vs Murray vs Roddick vs Djokojic vs Santoro

 

[ms87]

This is flat out NOT TRUE.
Have you ever seen Kendrick spank his FH ? Del Potro hit a duece court winner ? Nadal hit is BH ? How do you think he gets it back crosscourt from a closed stance ? IMO locking the wrist is what people did prior to the 80's when tennis was mostly a defensive game [except for the SVers Kramer, Gonzolaz, Ashe, etc].

Modern tennis more and more uses an educated wrist/forearm snap for power. Does Roddick look like he is locking his wrist ? Let it relax and use it the way one uses it on a serve.

All this, of course, is advice for good players with good coordination because all wrist/forearm movement takes good timing which is why it is prone to errors if not done well. Beginners and most ladies should just lay the wrist back and drive thru the ball.

=========================
To the original poster ....
You video looks fine to me. Nice powerful FH there.
There is not just one way to hit it well.
Just look at all the varying styles on tour.
Soderling vs Murray vs Roddick vs Djokojic vs Santoro

I don't recall telling anyone to lock their wrist, but I guess for you it's either "lock the wrist" or "snap it forward like a free throw in basketball".

ok. I concede that you are right and I am wrong.
good players with good coordination are snapping their wrists forward to add power. I guess they are not producing enough power from the legs, hips, torso, or shoulders; nope, what they really require is the colossal power that can only be gained by tensing their forearm and snapping forward one of the most delicate bone structures in the body - the wrist.
how could I not see it before?

look at federer's wrist flying forward!
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImage...n_Articles/Forehand/2008_05_08_federer_05.jpg
and nadal!
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/01/17/wbOPEN2nadal2_gallery__470x355.jpg
djokovic!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=iQrhp2qVbyUU
verdasco!
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/2009+Australian+Open+Day+2+A_KAyytFS4Yl.jpg
murray!
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_f4eq0rb0N6Q/ScQw5tyVtzI/AAAAAAAADCc/tQxlSltKQLw/Andrew+Murray+forehand+II.jpg
gonzalez!
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200806/r256798_1062955.jpg

perhaps you are confusing tennis with badminton.

 

[M J]

I don't understand why there is so much hate of any wrist movement on these boards. Wrist movement haters also seem to be angry for no reason, maybe because they know deep down that the wrist is one thing that separates them from the pros.

This is from Federer's website (he's not a wrist hater):

Question: "Quoted: 'He hits many times with lots of wrist action, and contact point far in front, a unique technique in the tour.' Was this taught or just your personal hitting style?"

Roger: "It’s my personal hitting style; this is how my game evolved. There is no secret behind it. I always had a fast wrist, which helps."

He must mean that having a "fast wrist" helps him be an amateur with a wrist injury.

 

[ms87]

I don't understand why there is so much hate of any wrist movement on these boards. Wrist movement haters also seem to be angry for no reason, maybe because they know deep down that the wrist is one thing that separates them from the pros.

This is from Federer's website (he's not a wrist hater):

Question: "Quoted: 'He hits many times with lots of wrist action, and contact point far in front, a unique technique in the tour.' Was this taught or just your personal hitting style?"

Roger: "It’s my personal hitting style; this is how my game evolved. There is no secret behind it. I always had a fast wrist, which helps."

He must mean that having a "fast wrist" helps him be an amateur with a wrist injury.

he's talking about pronation, NOT about snapping his wrist forward like you do when throwing a basketball.

go ahead and tell me at what point his wrist "snaps forward"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSXkL7RMsdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X55PjtoIBlw

Look at the angle from his hand to his forearm at contact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8f2dPzVWnU&feature=related

 

[M J]

Pronation is not a movement of the wrist. I agree there is pronation, but Roger's "fast wrist" is doing more than that. The second video is a great example. At contact, his wrist is in the middle of moving very quickly from extreme extension to slight flexion. Notice how the racquet face points toward the ground throughout the follow-through. You can't do that without some wrist action.

 

[ms87]

Pronation is not a movement of the wrist. I agree there is pronation, but Roger's "fast wrist" is doing more than that. The second video is a great example. At contact, his wrist is in the middle of moving very quickly from extreme extension to slight flexion. Notice how the racquet face points toward the ground throughout the follow-through. You can't do that without some wrist action.

that happens AFTER impact, as the wrist is flung forward because the rest of the structure cannot move forward anymore.

 

[paulfreda]

Pics Prove the Point

look at federer's wrist flying forward!
http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImage...n_Articles/Forehand/2008_05_08_federer_05.jpg
and nadal!
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/01/17/wbOPEN2nadal2_gallery__470x355.jpg
djokovic!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=iQrhp2qVbyUU
verdasco!
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/2009+Australian+Open+Day+2+A_KAyytFS4Yl.jpg
murray!
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_f4eq0rb0N6Q/ScQw5tyVtzI/AAAAAAAADCc/tQxlSltKQLw/Andrew+Murray+forehand+II.jpg
gonzalez!
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200806/r256798_1062955.jpg

These pics actually make my point, thank you.

Notice that for all these players, the angle of the frame to the forearm is no where near the 90 degrees it is when they begin the forward swing. But at and near contact it is becoming close[r] to 0 degrees because the wrist is accelerating forward from full extension to neutral to a bit a flexion as another poster so eloquently described it.

I really find it hard to understand how anyone can watch the top 100 pros and not see tremendous use of wrist and forearm action thru the ball. Maybe some here have never gone to a live ATP tennis tournament ? But even on TV, it seems obvious to me,

 

[longnt80]

These pics actually make my point, thank you.

Notice that for all these players, the angle of the frame to the forearm is no where near the 90 degrees it is when they begin the forward swing. But at and near contact it is becoming close[r] to 0 degrees because the wrist is accelerating forward from full extension to neutral to a bit a flexion as another poster so eloquently described it.

I really find it hard to understand how anyone can watch the top 100 pros and not see tremendous use of wrist and forearm action thru the ball. Maybe some here have never gone to a live ATP tennis tournament ? But even on TV, it seems obvious to me,

There's always be wrist action. It's just matter of how much. When you practice and play enough tennis you will find out yourself. If it make your game more effective then it is good technique.

 

[JCo872]

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

I like your forehand very much. Great foundation. Awesome shoulder rotation. Great contact point. Great pulling motion. What jumps out at me is not the wrist but that you need more of a windshield wiper. You need more of a rolling motion with your entire arm and shoulder and forearm as well. Imagine rolling a big ball with your hand and arm and that will give you the feeling of the rotational force you need to develop.

You can see this in the examples on my homepage. The Federer one, in particular, shows the fast wiper move that creates a powerful torque on the ball. Trying to extend too far through the shot towards the net, as you are doing, actually reduces the force and power of the shot.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/

Also you may want to check this out on torque and rotation in the pro game:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/master_principles/torques.php

It is quite clear to me that you go too far forward toward the net instead of getting the faster, more powerful force from rotation. Your forehand could be huge if can incorporate this.

Jeff

 

[Blake0]

I see a number of players, verdasco, nadal, fed etc use alot of wrist during the forward motion to the ball.. I notice in my stroke this isnt apparant.. is it something worth looking into to incorporate?

here is a slo mo of my stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbF5NuDhuo

you can see from this vid my wrist looks less relaxed compared to the pro's

What federer does is that he incorporate forearm pronation and wrist release with a WW swing, straightens his arms out, and hits a slingshot forehand. Being able to hit this way consistently takes quite a bit of cordination, timing, talent, and athleticism (more like a lot) especially at the pro level.

Wrist release is NOT snapping the wrist forward, but going from a relaxed wrist to a layed back wrist (when he starts his forward swing, due to having a relaxed wrist) back to a relaxed wrist at the end of the stroke

 

[aimr75]

You can see this in the examples on my homepage. The Federer one, in particular, shows the fast wiper move that creates a powerful torque on the ball. Trying to extend too far through the shot towards the net, as you are doing, actually reduces the force and power of the shot.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/

I would have thought the WW would be more difficult to generate pace off of due to the vertical nature of the motion.. ?

 

[M J]

These pics actually make my point, thank you.

Notice that for all these players, the angle of the frame to the forearm is no where near the 90 degrees it is when they begin the forward swing. But at and near contact it is becoming close[r] to 0 degrees because the wrist is accelerating forward from full extension to neutral to a bit a flexion as another poster so eloquently described it.

I really find it hard to understand how anyone can watch the top 100 pros and not see tremendous use of wrist and forearm action thru the ball. Maybe some here have never gone to a live ATP tennis tournament ? But even on TV, it seems obvious to me,

It's so refreshing to hear that someone else sees what I see. You described perfectly. I first noticed it while I was trying to figure out what made Monfils' forehand look so cool; the wrist action is huge, and once I realized what he was doing, I saw it everywhere. It's really one of the most significant differences between a pro forehand and amateur forehand.

I've actually had success trying to incorporate this movement into my own forehand. I used to hit a loopy windshield washer forehand that had spin but not much pace. When I started trying to mimic the pro wrist movement, I was able to get much more pace, and to my surprise, more spin. Now my forehand often hits the back fence on the rise and I’m hitting many more winners. Many would say that I'm going to injure myself, but I feel fine.

 

[user92626]

When I started trying to mimic the pro wrist movement, I was able to get much more pace, and to my surprise, more spin. Now my forehand often hits the back fence on the rise and I’m hitting many more winners. Many would say that I'm going to injure myself, but I feel fine.

How you mimic the pro wrist movement is the million dollar question. Do you mean you intentionally flick the wrist as part of the swing?

 

[M J]

How you mimic the pro wrist movement is the million dollar question. Do you mean you intentionally flick the wrist as part of the swing?

Actually, yeah, sort of. Of course it doesn't work unless my arm and wrist are relaxed. I hit the frame more often than the strings when I first started trying it, but now it feels natural. If my forehand is going long, I think "more wrist" and it goes in.

 

[Sublime]

Actually, yeah, sort of. Of course it doesn't work unless my arm and wrist are relaxed. I hit the frame more often than the strings when I first started trying it, but now it feels natural. If my forehand is going long, I think "more wrist" and it goes in.

So you're saying you flick your wrist, while keeping it relaxed...

 

[Blake0]

I would have thought the WW would be more difficult to generate pace off of due to the vertical nature of the motion.. ?

There doesn't necessarily have to have a vertical swing path for WW forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7ahE-NYE8

Vid of fed with loose wrist, and his WW more horizontal then vertical.


Read this thread on how the more horizontal swing path WW motion is hit.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=259859

 

[Blake0]

So you're saying you flick your wrist, while keeping it relaxed...

You don't flick the wrist on the forehand..it looks like the wrist flicks when you see pros, but it's just a combination of forearm pronation and the wrist going from layed back to relaxed or partly layed back. To get this you should keep your arm loose (including wrist), and it should be done unconsciously.

 

[M J]

So you're saying you flick your wrist, while keeping it relaxed...

Yes. Like hitting a good kick serve or throwing a baseball.

 

[35ft6]

My forehand has been getting wristier and my arm straighter lately, and it's really messing things up. I'm making an effort to bend my elbow and keep my wrist more locked. I'm too old to develop a Verdasco like forehand.

 

[ms87]

You don't flick the wrist on the forehand..it looks like the wrist flicks when you see pros, but it's just a combination of forearm pronation and the wrist going from layed back to relaxed or partly layed back. To get this you should keep your arm loose (including wrist), and it should be done unconsciously.

bingo
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