'Wristing' the ball as culprit for tennis/golfers elbow

[Curious]

Thinking about the anatomy of arm and the elbow in particular, I am wondering if the real problem could be the wrist instead of elbow or the arm that one should focus on to understand the cause of tennis/golfers elbow. And could it be pure faulty technique rather than racket or the strings? If the problem is the shock that is transferred by the racket and absorbed by the arm(racket stiffness, poly strings etc), why is it only two particular spots on both sides of the elbow that get the damage? Why is it not the wrist for instance? That's the first part of the arm that you would expect to be affected by the shock from ball impact!
Interestingly those two spots on both sides of the elbow are the connection points for the forearm muscles which are used to move the wrist, not the arm.
What I am trying to say is using the wrist as leverage (wristing) rather than the elbow or shoulder because of poor timing and being out of position/balance is probably what causes both conditions. What do you think?

 

[Chas Tennis]

In earlier publications, 1990's, and his book, D. Knudson had comments about the wrist and recommended the wrist be used in extension to reduce the risks of tennis elbow. See his original publications. Pictures and videos of high level one hand backhands usually show the wrist used in extension.

In 2014 Knudson also wrote a brief paper discussing another publication and its results that said off center hits were very important.
http://www.ptrtennis.org/secured/tp/articles/en/jf14-knudson.pdf

Here is a search of the forum for things that I posted. Many of these are also in the Health and Fitness Forum so you can't limit TW searches to just the Tennis Tips/ Instruction forum.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?search/19453925/&q=Knudson+tennis+elbow&o=date&c[user][0]=124193

The most valuable information on tennis elbow or golfer's elbow is to stop stressing a new tendon injury immediately and see a Dr. Stressing an injured tendon can very quickly lead to defectively healed tendon tissue, tendinosis. Understand this before you are injured. See Tendon Injury Nuthouse.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I think the big culprits are age, bad technique and stiff strings/rackets. Which plays the biggest role i can't say for sure.

But if you hit the ball out front with your wrist and arm extended, your elbow is taking less force than if you are late and arm the ball. Shanks also put stress on the joints and tendons.

 

[Shroud]

Thinking about the anatomy of arm and the elbow in particular, I am wondering if the real problem could be the wrist instead of elbow or the arm that one should focus on to understand the cause of tennis/golfers elbow. And could it be pure faulty technique rather than racket or the strings? If the problem is the shock that is transferred by the racket and absorbed by the arm(racket stiffness, poly strings etc), why is it only two particular spots on both sides of the elbow that get the damage? Why is it not the wrist for instance? That's the first part of the arm that you would expect to be affected by the shock from ball impact!
Interestingly those two spots on both sides of the elbow are the connection points for the forearm muscles which are used to move the wrist, not the arm.
What I am trying to say is using the wrist as leverage (wristing) rather than the elbow or shoulder because of poor timing and being out of position/balance is probably what causes both conditions. What do you think?

For me at least the serve and one handed bh were culprits and though i often felt the ge when hitting fhs i dont think that was the main culprit. But neither stroke was wristy and afaik you can bend your elbow in a way that stresses it but not the wrist

Ex. I fixed my bh which used to have the elbow as the hinge and not the shoulder. So the elbow would be stressed on late contact. Same with the serve. Hitting low tosses maes the elbow bend and in that position it took more stress

Not dismissing your theory just saying its tough for ne to be wristy on the strokes that gave me ge...

 

[Curious]

There is only one way not to arm the ball: Having a very loose and relaxed arm and getting the power from torso and legs.
And there are 3 possible ways to arm the ball: Using one or a combination of 3 hinges, wrist, elbow and the shoulder. In my opinion it's the wrist movement that causes the tennis and golfers elbow, neither of the other two. It's an anatomical fact. Pronator muscle plays a role as does internal shoulder rotation in serve related inner elbow pain but that's a different issue( Medial/ulnar collateral ligament strain rather than golfers elbow).

 

[Chas Tennis]

There is only one way not to arm the ball: Having a very loose and relaxed arm and getting the power from torso and legs.
And there are 3 possible ways to arm the ball: Using one or a combination of 3 hinges, wrist, elbow and the shoulder. In my opinion it's the wrist movement that causes the tennis and golfers elbow, neither of the other two. It's an anatomical fact. Pronator muscle plays a role as does internal shoulder rotation in serve related inner elbow pain but that's a different issue( Medial/ulnar collateral ligament strain rather than golfers elbow).

References on the causes of injuries usually are not too conclusive. That is understandable since experiments that injure people aren't done. Injuries often occur from a single event that exceeds the strength of the tissue and, for example, may tear a tendon.

I have read that some of the automatic muscle responses might play a part. I believe that there is a tendon sensor that causes the muscle to produce force under certain conditions to slow the joint as it nears the end of its range of motion. If that is occurring and at the same time something new is added - for example, a ball hits the strings off center on a one hand backhand - then this could add stress to the already taxed muscle-tendon. I have read that this double stress is believed to be related to some injuries. ( I believe that D. Knudson may have mentioned this. ?) If you want to speculate on causes of injuries research also this muscle sensor issue and its relation to injury.

 

[Chas Tennis]

................ Pronator muscle plays a role as does internal shoulder rotation in serve related inner elbow pain but that's a different issue( Medial/ulnar collateral ligament strain rather than golfers elbow).

For many years now I have believed that I gave myself a Golfer's Elbow tendon injury experimenting with a volleying technique. Now and then it reoccurs with very mildly pain just after a reverse tennis serve and a reverse overhead in a platform tennis, a shot I do for heavy spin.

More recently. I learned about the ligament strain that you mention in the same location as the GE pain. Now I can't rule out the ligament pain as the source of pain. I am very interested in references on Medial/ulnar collateral ligament strain that you may have found especially for tennis serving. I have seen GE associated with the serve and forehand.

I have given myself the same exact pain in the left arm while working with heavier logs. 3 months of no stress to the left elbow and it went away.